McLean to Explore Separating from FC & FCPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where is special ed in all this? Langley and McLean pyramids don't have a bunch of the FCPS programs. Legally, you have to provide comparable and meet the IEP or get the pants sued off you. So it will have to be set up. And given that it's McLean, you're going to get the pants sued off you anyway constantly, all the time, by parents demanding 1:1 aides and 1:1 Orton-Gillingham and placements at Ivymount and Lab and Oakwood and Fusion. This will add millions in costs. Do people understand how expensive this stuff is? I looked up Greenwich, CT and there are multiple articles over the years about them constantly overrunning their special ed budget due to having to fund out-of-district placements. A drop in the bucket for FCPS, a major balance sheet issue for McLean City Public Schools.

And Greenwich has almost triple the property tax rate of Fairfax County. Brookline is about double. There are some serious rose-tinted glasses going on here.

Excellent point. Either they haven't considered it, or they're banking on people either putting their children with SN in private schools at their own expense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCC is doing pretty much exactly the same thing as FCPS with respect to Return to School.

The idea of moving new high schoolers to Langley from McLean was shuttled because Cooper parents wanted to include MS in the boundary adjustments.

You sound very uninformed.

No. It’s Longfellow parents who want to include Cooper in the discussion if they are going to be moved to Langley, and Cooper parents who don’t want kids moved to already overcrowded Cooper during its upcoming renovation. The delay is a direct result of how bad the planning is in FCPS; they create awkward ES/MS feeder patterns and then middle and high schools in the same pyramids that aren’t the right size for each other. They added more seats than were needed at Langley during its renovation when they should have been adding seats to both Langley and McLean, dragged their feet for years before even agreeing to take up a boundary study (because they were toying behind the scenes with the idea of county-wide busing “in the name of equity”), and realized when they finally got around to considering boundary changes that anything they propose will be undesirable until they finish the overdue Cooper renovation years from now.

In a smaller, well-run system, the Facilities people responsible for this mess would have been replaced by now, but it’s FCPS so the excuse is always to point to how big and “complex” FCPS is to administer. Enough is enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is special ed in all this? Langley and McLean pyramids don't have a bunch of the FCPS programs. Legally, you have to provide comparable and meet the IEP or get the pants sued off you. So it will have to be set up. And given that it's McLean, you're going to get the pants sued off you anyway constantly, all the time, by parents demanding 1:1 aides and 1:1 Orton-Gillingham and placements at Ivymount and Lab and Oakwood and Fusion. This will add millions in costs. Do people understand how expensive this stuff is? I looked up Greenwich, CT and there are multiple articles over the years about them constantly overrunning their special ed budget due to having to fund out-of-district placements. A drop in the bucket for FCPS, a major balance sheet issue for McLean City Public Schools.

And Greenwich has almost triple the property tax rate of Fairfax County. Brookline is about double. There are some serious rose-tinted glasses going on here.

Excellent point. Either they haven't considered it, or they're banking on people either putting their children with SN in private schools at their own expense.

The more relevant comparison would be taxes in Falls Church City, not Brookline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCC is doing pretty much exactly the same thing as FCPS with respect to Return to School.

The idea of moving new high schoolers to Langley from McLean was shuttled because Cooper parents wanted to include MS in the boundary adjustments.

You sound very uninformed.

No. It’s Longfellow parents who want to include Cooper in the discussion if they are going to be moved to Langley, and Cooper parents who don’t want kids moved to already overcrowded Cooper during its upcoming renovation. The delay is a direct result of how bad the planning is in FCPS; they create awkward ES/MS feeder patterns and then middle and high schools in the same pyramids that aren’t the right size for each other. They added more seats than were needed at Langley during its renovation when they should have been adding seats to both Langley and McLean, dragged their feet for years before even agreeing to take up a boundary study (because they were toying behind the scenes with the idea of county-wide busing “in the name of equity”), and realized when they finally got around to considering boundary changes that anything they propose will be undesirable until they finish the overdue Cooper renovation years from now.

In a smaller, well-run system, the Facilities people responsible for this mess would have been replaced by now, but it’s FCPS so the excuse is always to point to how big and “complex” FCPS is to administer. Enough is enough.

Yup, it's my understanding that future and current Longfellow have reasons to object. For example, I'm in an ES in Vienna where kids go to either Longfellow or Cooper. Most go to Cooper. So my child will be in the minority of students that go to Longfellow. So we wouldn't want her to then again be in the tiny minority that goes to Langley from Longfellow. If you're going to redistrict us to Langley at least do it so she can join Langley with fellow students from Cooper. Look at the current school district for McLean High. It has this odd island area in Vienna districts for Longfellow McLean. It's been like this for decades. I wonder why is island area was even created in the first place. So weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So McLean (as a city) could separate and operate with its own school board for funding, capital improvements, facility use, and related issues, but still contract out to FCPS for instruction, i.e., teachers/staffing, just like Fairfax City.

Or I wonder if a complete split (like Falls Church City, Manassass Park, etc.) is what Mclean residents really want. McLean would then have complete control over its curriculum and attendance boundaries. Unfortunately students in the Falls Church section of Fairfax County would then no longer be able to attend McLean HS. Marshall is close by however.

The boundaries of a new city could largely track the current boundaries of Langley HS and McLean HS, which include parts of Falls Church and Vienna and a few other areas.

They should call it Dranesville then and not McLean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCC is doing pretty much exactly the same thing as FCPS with respect to Return to School.

The idea of moving new high schoolers to Langley from McLean was shuttled because Cooper parents wanted to include MS in the boundary adjustments.

You sound very uninformed.

No. It’s Longfellow parents who want to include Cooper in the discussion if they are going to be moved to Langley, and Cooper parents who don’t want kids moved to already overcrowded Cooper during its upcoming renovation. The delay is a direct result of how bad the planning is in FCPS; they create awkward ES/MS feeder patterns and then middle and high schools in the same pyramids that aren’t the right size for each other. They added more seats than were needed at Langley during its renovation when they should have been adding seats to both Langley and McLean, dragged their feet for years before even agreeing to take up a boundary study (because they were toying behind the scenes with the idea of county-wide busing “in the name of equity”), and realized when they finally got around to considering boundary changes that anything they propose will be undesirable until they finish the overdue Cooper renovation years from now.

In a smaller, well-run system, the Facilities people responsible for this mess would have been replaced by now, but it’s FCPS so the excuse is always to point to how big and “complex” FCPS is to administer. Enough is enough.

Yup, it's my understanding that future and current Longfellow have reasons to object. For example, I'm in an ES in Vienna where kids go to either Longfellow or Cooper. Most go to Cooper. So my child will be in the minority of students that go to Longfellow. So we wouldn't want her to then again be in the tiny minority that goes to Langley from Longfellow. If you're going to redistrict us to Langley at least do it so she can join Langley with fellow students from Cooper. Look at the current school district for McLean High. It has this odd island area in Vienna districts for Longfellow McLean. It's been like this for decades. I wonder why is island area was even created in the first place. So weird.

It was created in the mid-80s when Langley was overcrowded and McLean under-enrolled. Prior to then Shouse Village and nearby areas had gone to Langley.

It looks like an island now because when the Spring Gate Apartments were built in the early 2000s further east in a part of Tysons that wasn’t previously residential, Marshall HS was far below capacity and that part of Tysons was reassigned to Marshall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So McLean (as a city) could separate and operate with its own school board for funding, capital improvements, facility use, and related issues, but still contract out to FCPS for instruction, i.e., teachers/staffing, just like Fairfax City.

Or I wonder if a complete split (like Falls Church City, Manassass Park, etc.) is what Mclean residents really want. McLean would then have complete control over its curriculum and attendance boundaries. Unfortunately students in the Falls Church section of Fairfax County would then no longer be able to attend McLean HS. Marshall is close by however.

The boundaries of a new city could largely track the current boundaries of Langley HS and McLean HS, which include parts of Falls Church and Vienna and a few other areas.

They should call it Dranesville then and not McLean.

Of the historic names in that area Lewinsville and Colvin would be closer to the center of the larger area mentioned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So McLean (as a city) could separate and operate with its own school board for funding, capital improvements, facility use, and related issues, but still contract out to FCPS for instruction, i.e., teachers/staffing, just like Fairfax City.

Or I wonder if a complete split (like Falls Church City, Manassass Park, etc.) is what Mclean residents really want. McLean would then have complete control over its curriculum and attendance boundaries. Unfortunately students in the Falls Church section of Fairfax County would then no longer be able to attend McLean HS. Marshall is close by however.

The boundaries of a new city could largely track the current boundaries of Langley HS and McLean HS, which include parts of Falls Church and Vienna and a few other areas.

They should call it Dranesville then and not McLean.

Of the historic names in that area Lewinsville and Colvin would be closer to the center of the larger area mentioned.

I was going with the current Magisterial District name.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is special ed in all this? Langley and McLean pyramids don't have a bunch of the FCPS programs. Legally, you have to provide comparable and meet the IEP or get the pants sued off you. So it will have to be set up. And given that it's McLean, you're going to get the pants sued off you anyway constantly, all the time, by parents demanding 1:1 aides and 1:1 Orton-Gillingham and placements at Ivymount and Lab and Oakwood and Fusion. This will add millions in costs. Do people understand how expensive this stuff is? I looked up Greenwich, CT and there are multiple articles over the years about them constantly overrunning their special ed budget due to having to fund out-of-district placements. A drop in the bucket for FCPS, a major balance sheet issue for McLean City Public Schools.

And Greenwich has almost triple the property tax rate of Fairfax County. Brookline is about double. There are some serious rose-tinted glasses going on here.

Excellent point. Either they haven't considered it, or they're banking on people either putting their children with SN in private schools at their own expense.

The more relevant comparison would be taxes in Falls Church City, not Brookline.

No. Falls Church separated in 1949. Decades before IDEA was passed. Therefore the programs developed organically, and they sure don’t seem to have much. McLean will be faced with legal obligations to replicate an existing system. They’re going to need discrete programs like Brookline has. They are also going to have to cope with aggressive, moneyed families with lawyers who will expect the best for their SN students the same way this thread is demanding better for typical students because of wealth. You don’t get one without the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is special ed in all this? Langley and McLean pyramids don't have a bunch of the FCPS programs. Legally, you have to provide comparable and meet the IEP or get the pants sued off you. So it will have to be set up. And given that it's McLean, you're going to get the pants sued off you anyway constantly, all the time, by parents demanding 1:1 aides and 1:1 Orton-Gillingham and placements at Ivymount and Lab and Oakwood and Fusion. This will add millions in costs. Do people understand how expensive this stuff is? I looked up Greenwich, CT and there are multiple articles over the years about them constantly overrunning their special ed budget due to having to fund out-of-district placements. A drop in the bucket for FCPS, a major balance sheet issue for McLean City Public Schools.

And Greenwich has almost triple the property tax rate of Fairfax County. Brookline is about double. There are some serious rose-tinted glasses going on here.

Excellent point. Either they haven't considered it, or they're banking on people either putting their children with SN in private schools at their own expense.

The more relevant comparison would be taxes in Falls Church City, not Brookline.

No. Falls Church separated in 1949. Decades before IDEA was passed. Therefore the programs developed organically, and they sure don’t seem to have much. McLean will be faced with legal obligations to replicate an existing system. They’re going to need discrete programs like Brookline has. They are also going to have to cope with aggressive, moneyed families with lawyers who will expect the best for their SN students the same way this thread is demanding better for typical students because of wealth. You don’t get one without the other.

It’s telling that you’d try to use SN kids as a pretext to defend the continued under-investment in McLean schools that works to the detriment of all the kids in that area.

Greater McLean would be far better off untethered by those in control from elsewhere in the county who treat it as a cash cow but otherwise ignore it and leave the parents to provide supplemental support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is special ed in all this? Langley and McLean pyramids don't have a bunch of the FCPS programs. Legally, you have to provide comparable and meet the IEP or get the pants sued off you. So it will have to be set up. And given that it's McLean, you're going to get the pants sued off you anyway constantly, all the time, by parents demanding 1:1 aides and 1:1 Orton-Gillingham and placements at Ivymount and Lab and Oakwood and Fusion. This will add millions in costs. Do people understand how expensive this stuff is? I looked up Greenwich, CT and there are multiple articles over the years about them constantly overrunning their special ed budget due to having to fund out-of-district placements. A drop in the bucket for FCPS, a major balance sheet issue for McLean City Public Schools.

And Greenwich has almost triple the property tax rate of Fairfax County. Brookline is about double. There are some serious rose-tinted glasses going on here.

Excellent point. Either they haven't considered it, or they're banking on people either putting their children with SN in private schools at their own expense.

The more relevant comparison would be taxes in Falls Church City, not Brookline.

No. Falls Church separated in 1949. Decades before IDEA was passed. Therefore the programs developed organically, and they sure don’t seem to have much. McLean will be faced with legal obligations to replicate an existing system. They’re going to need discrete programs like Brookline has. They are also going to have to cope with aggressive, moneyed families with lawyers who will expect the best for their SN students the same way this thread is demanding better for typical students because of wealth. You don’t get one without the other.

It’s telling that you’d try to use SN kids as a pretext to defend the continued under-investment in McLean schools that works to the detriment of all the kids in that area.

Greater McLean would be far better off untethered by those in control from elsewhere in the county who treat it as a cash cow but otherwise ignore it and leave the parents to provide supplemental support.

I'm not defending anything. FCPS has huge problems and needs some kind of system shock. But I'm pointing out an aspect of this that not one person brought up in 38 pages. If you want this plan to be taken seriously, you need to have a realistic picture of the costs and a plan to deal with legal obligations. I see zero evidence that anyone on this thread or in MCA has thought of any of this besides a bunch of handwaving and wishful thinking. Because if you don't think it through, parents will be left to provide supplemental support just the same as they are now, only they will come after YOU because YOU are now the ones in control of it. How do you plan to pay for and meet their needs? 38 pages and not ONE mention of special education students, which as far as I can see is pretty typical of these privileged whining threads. MCPS "W school" parents are the same way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would it include the Falls Church area (part of Fairfax) that goes to Haycock/Mclean HS? If not, where would they end up (sandwiched between FCC and Mclean)?

it would probably include the same footprint as the McLean Community Center tax district.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is special ed in all this? Langley and McLean pyramids don't have a bunch of the FCPS programs. Legally, you have to provide comparable and meet the IEP or get the pants sued off you. So it will have to be set up. And given that it's McLean, you're going to get the pants sued off you anyway constantly, all the time, by parents demanding 1:1 aides and 1:1 Orton-Gillingham and placements at Ivymount and Lab and Oakwood and Fusion. This will add millions in costs. Do people understand how expensive this stuff is? I looked up Greenwich, CT and there are multiple articles over the years about them constantly overrunning their special ed budget due to having to fund out-of-district placements. A drop in the bucket for FCPS, a major balance sheet issue for McLean City Public Schools.

And Greenwich has almost triple the property tax rate of Fairfax County. Brookline is about double. There are some serious rose-tinted glasses going on here.

Excellent point. Either they haven't considered it, or they're banking on people either putting their children with SN in private schools at their own expense.

The more relevant comparison would be taxes in Falls Church City, not Brookline.

No. Falls Church separated in 1949. Decades before IDEA was passed. Therefore the programs developed organically, and they sure don’t seem to have much. McLean will be faced with legal obligations to replicate an existing system. They’re going to need discrete programs like Brookline has. They are also going to have to cope with aggressive, moneyed families with lawyers who will expect the best for their SN students the same way this thread is demanding better for typical students because of wealth. You don’t get one without the other.

It’s telling that you’d try to use SN kids as a pretext to defend the continued under-investment in McLean schools that works to the detriment of all the kids in that area.

Greater McLean would be far better off untethered by those in control from elsewhere in the county who treat it as a cash cow but otherwise ignore it and leave the parents to provide supplemental support.

I'm not defending anything. FCPS has huge problems and needs some kind of system shock. But I'm pointing out an aspect of this that not one person brought up in 38 pages. If you want this plan to be taken seriously, you need to have a realistic picture of the costs and a plan to deal with legal obligations. I see zero evidence that anyone on this thread or in MCA has thought of any of this besides a bunch of handwaving and wishful thinking. Because if you don't think it through, parents will be left to provide supplemental support just the same as they are now, only they will come after YOU because YOU are now the ones in control of it. How do you plan to pay for and meet their needs? 38 pages and not ONE mention of special education students, which as far as I can see is pretty typical of these privileged whining threads. MCPS "W school" parents are the same way.

This idea was just recently raised or revived and, if there is sufficient interest in pursuing it, additional thought will be given to the operating requirements for a functioning city government and school system. Given that it's in the early stages of consideration, focusing on special education services is premature, just as would be an effort to put a number on how much McLean City Public Schools might save if 10% of its students rather than 30% were FARMS.

The fact that the thread quickly ballooned to almost 40 pages reflects both the substantial interest in the idea and the predictable opposition from those who want to hold Greater McLean captive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just wait until the people in Great Falls realize they are not part of McLean proper.

Just wait until you realize that Great Falls makes up at least half - if not more - of Langley students.

Sounds like McLean is starting to catch up to where Great Falls already was in terms of disappointment with FCPS. If they are allowed to exit, I’m sure they will coordinate and do so together, especially since both Langley HS and McLean HS are in McLean.

+1
It’s really too bad McLean (and other areas) didn’t listen to the One Great Falls group and vote for those SB candidates. Instead, we’re now stuck with the SJW dream team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Took my kid to Justice HS this morning for SAT and Justice has better facilities than McLean. McLean looks like a dump, and I can’t even play tennis at McLean because they put trailers on the tennis courts. I am paying 25k/yr for my McLean home property tax and get shitty McLean HS facilities. I am for separating Mclean from Fairfax county.

+1
We were there too for the SAT and I was thinking the same thing.