Option H is permanent and the old Wootton HS campus will be closed for good?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is off the rails and honestly insulting. There is literally half of Rosemont slated to go to Crown. The half that is going is from the Crown area. When my child graduated from Rosemont (and we live in Crown) he was in the ELA/compacted math class that was filled with the highest achievers, many of those who also lived in Crown. My child was in the 99th percentile and I am assuming the others were similar.

As it has been discussed numerous times-The plan is for them to get crown to capacity by adding ~1000 GHS students. Is it written on option H? No, but it’s been brought up at multiple meetings. And they keep saying “Most of Wootton will Probably stay together” so it’s not as clear as you think it is. Also, obviously you are thrilled at this prospect so of course you are for it-it 100% benefits you.

Yep. They love the idea of Wootton moving to Crown because it puts the #3 high school in MD right in their backyard. They didn’t have to buy a more expensive house and their kid will benefit by having lots of high achieving kids around him /her (as compared to today). What’s not to like?

[Anonymous]

What I find interesting about the evolution of this thread is the complete abandonment of the claim that opposition was based in "the ability to talk to school." It is apparent that the opposition is rooted in fear of Wootton students being exposed to "others" that aren't of the same socio-economic status. It has nothing to do with the location of the building itself. If the proposal were to leave the kids in the current building and add some others, opposition would be the same. For example, if it were possible to fully renovate/rebuild the Wootton building over a summer and expand to increase capacity, moving a bunch of kids from GHS, how would you feel then?

It is disheartening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I find interesting about the evolution of this thread is the complete abandonment of the claim that opposition was based in "the ability to talk to school." It is apparent that the opposition is rooted in fear of Wootton students being exposed to "others" that aren't of the same socio-economic status. It has nothing to do with the location of the building itself. If the proposal were to leave the kids in the current building and add some others, opposition would be the same. For example, if it were possible to fully renovate/rebuild the Wootton building over a summer and expand to increase capacity, moving a bunch of kids from GHS, how would you feel then?

It is disheartening.

Well, Wootton isn’t geographically close to any of the feeder elementary schools or middle schools for GHS. So it wouldn’t actually be logical. Crown is in a location that makes more sense for GHS feeders. We have a lot of high schools so really it isn’t a logical argument. Also, they wouldn’t be able to fit them anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I find interesting about the evolution of this thread is the complete abandonment of the claim that opposition was based in "the ability to talk to school." It is apparent that the opposition is rooted in fear of Wootton students being exposed to "others" that aren't of the same socio-economic status. It has nothing to do with the location of the building itself. If the proposal were to leave the kids in the current building and add some others, opposition would be the same. For example, if it were possible to fully renovate/rebuild the Wootton building over a summer and expand to increase capacity, moving a bunch of kids from GHS, how would you feel then?

It is disheartening.

Well, Wootton isn’t geographically close to any of the feeder elementary schools or middle schools for GHS. So it wouldn’t actually be logical. Crown is in a location that makes more sense for GHS feeders. We have a lot of high schools so really it isn’t a logical argument. Also, they wouldn’t be able to fit them anyway.

I wasn't making a "logical argument." I was observing that the resistance is about the population, not the location. And then posed a hypothetical to illustrate the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I find interesting about the evolution of this thread is the complete abandonment of the claim that opposition was based in "the ability to talk to school." It is apparent that the opposition is rooted in fear of Wootton students being exposed to "others" that aren't of the same socio-economic status. It has nothing to do with the location of the building itself. If the proposal were to leave the kids in the current building and add some others, opposition would be the same. For example, if it were possible to fully renovate/rebuild the Wootton building over a summer and expand to increase capacity, moving a bunch of kids from GHS, how would you feel then?

It is disheartening.

Well, Wootton isn’t geographically close to any of the feeder elementary schools or middle schools for GHS. So it wouldn’t actually be logical. Crown is in a location that makes more sense for GHS feeders. We have a lot of high schools so really it isn’t a logical argument. Also, they wouldn’t be able to fit them anyway.

I wasn't making a "logical argument." I was observing that the resistance is about the population, not the location. And then posed a hypothetical to illustrate the point.

Yeah but it wasn’t even a plausible argument at all so it wasn’t a good example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I find interesting about the evolution of this thread is the complete abandonment of the claim that opposition was based in "the ability to talk to school." It is apparent that the opposition is rooted in fear of Wootton students being exposed to "others" that aren't of the same socio-economic status. It has nothing to do with the location of the building itself. If the proposal were to leave the kids in the current building and add some others, opposition would be the same. For example, if it were possible to fully renovate/rebuild the Wootton building over a summer and expand to increase capacity, moving a bunch of kids from GHS, how would you feel then?

It is disheartening.

Well, Wootton isn’t geographically close to any of the feeder elementary schools or middle schools for GHS. So it wouldn’t actually be logical. Crown is in a location that makes more sense for GHS feeders. We have a lot of high schools so really it isn’t a logical argument. Also, they wouldn’t be able to fit them anyway.

I wasn't making a "logical argument." I was observing that the resistance is about the population, not the location. And then posed a hypothetical to illustrate the point.

Yeah but it wasn’t even a plausible argument at all so it wasn’t a good example.

You missed that the PP said "expand to increase capacity."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I find interesting about the evolution of this thread is the complete abandonment of the claim that opposition was based in "the ability to talk to school." It is apparent that the opposition is rooted in fear of Wootton students being exposed to "others" that aren't of the same socio-economic status. It has nothing to do with the location of the building itself. If the proposal were to leave the kids in the current building and add some others, opposition would be the same. For example, if it were possible to fully renovate/rebuild the Wootton building over a summer and expand to increase capacity, moving a bunch of kids from GHS, how would you feel then?

It is disheartening.

Well, Wootton isn’t geographically close to any of the feeder elementary schools or middle schools for GHS. So it wouldn’t actually be logical. Crown is in a location that makes more sense for GHS feeders. We have a lot of high schools so really it isn’t a logical argument. Also, they wouldn’t be able to fit them anyway.

I wasn't making a "logical argument." I was observing that the resistance is about the population, not the location. And then posed a hypothetical to illustrate the point.

Yeah but it wasn’t even a plausible argument at all so it wasn’t a good example.

Not sure you are getting it.

If a population of students from a different SES were added to the population of current Wootton students, would you object?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I"m confused. If they use Crown for Wootton, and move one or two additional GHS neighborhoods to Crown, how does that the overcrowding at the neighboring schools like RM, QO, NW?

It doesn't. It achieves the following:

1. Removes the political pressure from Wootton families on MCPS to remediate (not renovate) issues at Wootton
2. Removes Wootton from the Capital Improvement Plan in 2035 (after being removed twice previously, but now permanently - third time's a charm)
3. Moves the Wootton boundary to include GHS neighborhoods by moving Wootton 3 miles, achieving previous boundary study goals/recommendations that were rejected
4. Redistributes the high achievers from Wootton to a new school and mixes them with kids from much lower-achieving school(s), hoping for improved grades by peer influence
5. Removes the political pressure from vocal, non-W school neighborhoods that such schools are bastions of white, privileged, rich families
6. Frees up prime real estate on Wootton Parkway for substantial residential development, enriching a developer that will make campaign contributions for years to come
7. Covers up a mistake by MCPS in accepting "free land" and building a new high school in a congested, high-traffic area right off the highway
8. Generates more tax revenues from increased business at the shops and restaurants surrounding Crown (and potential campaign contributions for years to come from those businesses)

Can you expand a little more on your #4?

Not the pp but It means Wootton will not be a top performing school anymore. That list that comes out with the best high schools in MD-it will no longer be on it. Basically it will probably be a very small step up from Gaithersburg HS.

What lists?
Why do you think that will happen?
What actual impact would it have if that does happen?

US News and World report-heard of that? Wootton is ranked 191 nationally.
What makes a school great? It’s usually a very strong and active PTA. It correlates to high parent involvement. Rosemont basically has no PTA. And the reviews of Fields road are absolutely awful. The impact will be much time that is supposed to be for instruction now devoted to managing behavior issues.

Are you concerned about dilution? Because the Wootton cohort & PTA would pretty much stay intact with a move to the Crown location. What does the ranking, in and of itself, generate, aside from marginally higher real estate prices? The understanding is that it does not result in preferential admission to college on an individual basis.

High school is by period/course. The likely placement of academically minded Wootton students in honors-level/advanced classes, which certainly stay available with any reasonably sized portion of the intact cohort, would tend to keep them with others similarly interested and less prone to being difficult (in the manner about which you may be expressing concern) in the classroom, even if from (gasp!) Fields Road.

Did you ever actually go to high school? You think kids are only with the kids they are in classes with and that’s it? It’s a community. There is so much more to it than just being in classes with other similarly academic kids.

Correct. If there are gangs or drugs, even the most academically-oriented kids will not be immune. There will be peer pressure to get involved with both, whether as a perpetrator or a victim. Both are fairly limited at Wootton and Wootton families want to keep it that way.

Exactly. I actually don’t think any of these people thinking it’s no big deal have any idea the real problems some of these schools have. I went to a terrible high school in another state. There were active gang members and it was scary every single day and completely colored my high school experience in a negative light. I would never want my kids to have to deal with it. The high performing schools do have drug problems but honestly Although that’s not great, I will still take it over violence.

Gaithersburg has active gang members and lots of behavior issues. At least one of the feeder schools that Crown is getting if Wootton moves is one that feeds to GHS. I’m not sure why people think that somehow we are going to be ok with this. If we were ok with it then we would have moved to a much cheaper house in the GHS attendance zone.

And to add, many many of us in the Wootton cluster stretched to be able to get a house in that zone. Many of us are not rich at all and decided the investment in our child’s education was more important than many other things. We are not rich, not by a long shot. So losing considerable money in our investment does matter-it affects our children’s future.

Of course there are exceptions like anything else, but when a child has parents that don’t show any interest in their education, provide no consequences and show no concern when their kid is causing trouble at school-that’s a problem. Has this happened in our cluster with a child? Absolutely-but the difference is the PTA is strong and collectively doesn’t accept it so pushes for these issues to be dealt with. Once a good piece of Wootton gets pushed out-And is replaced with GHS kids it will just be a downward spiral. I believe most people who judge went to excellent schools and truly don’t know the difference.

So you can think it’s gross all you want. I want my kids safe. I want them to go to school without being scared.

And Wootton has lots and lots of drugs

All schools have drugs.

However Wootton has more parents that are interested in their kids education.

MAGA breeds at Gaithersburg. Not having my kids in school with those creeps who support pedos, criminals and are that stupid.

MAGA breeds at Gaithersburg? You seriously need to put down the pipes and have your head checked.
There are lots more MAGAs at Wootton than there would be at Gaithersburg, if there are any.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I"m confused. If they use Crown for Wootton, and move one or two additional GHS neighborhoods to Crown, how does that the overcrowding at the neighboring schools like RM, QO, NW?

It doesn't. It achieves the following:

1. Removes the political pressure from Wootton families on MCPS to remediate (not renovate) issues at Wootton
2. Removes Wootton from the Capital Improvement Plan in 2035 (after being removed twice previously, but now permanently - third time's a charm)
3. Moves the Wootton boundary to include GHS neighborhoods by moving Wootton 3 miles, achieving previous boundary study goals/recommendations that were rejected
4. Redistributes the high achievers from Wootton to a new school and mixes them with kids from much lower-achieving school(s), hoping for improved grades by peer influence
5. Removes the political pressure from vocal, non-W school neighborhoods that such schools are bastions of white, privileged, rich families
6. Frees up prime real estate on Wootton Parkway for substantial residential development, enriching a developer that will make campaign contributions for years to come
7. Covers up a mistake by MCPS in accepting "free land" and building a new high school in a congested, high-traffic area right off the highway
8. Generates more tax revenues from increased business at the shops and restaurants surrounding Crown (and potential campaign contributions for years to come from those businesses)

Can you expand a little more on your #4?

Not the pp but It means Wootton will not be a top performing school anymore. That list that comes out with the best high schools in MD-it will no longer be on it. Basically it will probably be a very small step up from Gaithersburg HS.

What lists?
Why do you think that will happen?
What actual impact would it have if that does happen?

US News and World report-heard of that? Wootton is ranked 191 nationally.
What makes a school great? It’s usually a very strong and active PTA. It correlates to high parent involvement. Rosemont basically has no PTA. And the reviews of Fields road are absolutely awful. The impact will be much time that is supposed to be for instruction now devoted to managing behavior issues.

Are you concerned about dilution? Because the Wootton cohort & PTA would pretty much stay intact with a move to the Crown location. What does the ranking, in and of itself, generate, aside from marginally higher real estate prices? The understanding is that it does not result in preferential admission to college on an individual basis.

High school is by period/course. The likely placement of academically minded Wootton students in honors-level/advanced classes, which certainly stay available with any reasonably sized portion of the intact cohort, would tend to keep them with others similarly interested and less prone to being difficult (in the manner about which you may be expressing concern) in the classroom, even if from (gasp!) Fields Road.

Did you ever actually go to high school? You think kids are only with the kids they are in classes with and that’s it? It’s a community. There is so much more to it than just being in classes with other similarly academic kids.

Correct. If there are gangs or drugs, even the most academically-oriented kids will not be immune. There will be peer pressure to get involved with both, whether as a perpetrator or a victim. Both are fairly limited at Wootton and Wootton families want to keep it that way.

Exactly. I actually don’t think any of these people thinking it’s no big deal have any idea the real problems some of these schools have. I went to a terrible high school in another state. There were active gang members and it was scary every single day and completely colored my high school experience in a negative light. I would never want my kids to have to deal with it. The high performing schools do have drug problems but honestly Although that’s not great, I will still take it over violence.

Gaithersburg has active gang members and lots of behavior issues. At least one of the feeder schools that Crown is getting if Wootton moves is one that feeds to GHS. I’m not sure why people think that somehow we are going to be ok with this. If we were ok with it then we would have moved to a much cheaper house in the GHS attendance zone.

And to add, many many of us in the Wootton cluster stretched to be able to get a house in that zone. Many of us are not rich at all and decided the investment in our child’s education was more important than many other things. We are not rich, not by a long shot. So losing considerable money in our investment does matter-it affects our children’s future.

Of course there are exceptions like anything else, but when a child has parents that don’t show any interest in their education, provide no consequences and show no concern when their kid is causing trouble at school-that’s a problem. Has this happened in our cluster with a child? Absolutely-but the difference is the PTA is strong and collectively doesn’t accept it so pushes for these issues to be dealt with. Once a good piece of Wootton gets pushed out-And is replaced with GHS kids it will just be a downward spiral. I believe most people who judge went to excellent schools and truly don’t know the difference.

So you can think it’s gross all you want. I want my kids safe. I want them to go to school without being scared.

And Wootton has lots and lots of drugs

All schools have drugs.

However Wootton has more parents that are interested in their kids education.

MAGA breeds at Gaithersburg. Not having my kids in school with those creeps who support pedos, criminals and are that stupid.

MAGA breeds at Gaithersburg? You seriously need to put down the pipes and have your head checked.
There are lots more MAGAs at Wootton than there would be at Gaithersburg, if there are any.

Really bizzare to worry about bout maga.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I find interesting about the evolution of this thread is the complete abandonment of the claim that opposition was based in "the ability to talk to school." It is apparent that the opposition is rooted in fear of Wootton students being exposed to "others" that aren't of the same socio-economic status. It has nothing to do with the location of the building itself. If the proposal were to leave the kids in the current building and add some others, opposition would be the same. For example, if it were possible to fully renovate/rebuild the Wootton building over a summer and expand to increase capacity, moving a bunch of kids from GHS, how would you feel then?

It is disheartening.

Well, Wootton isn’t geographically close to any of the feeder elementary schools or middle schools for GHS. So it wouldn’t actually be logical. Crown is in a location that makes more sense for GHS feeders. We have a lot of high schools so really it isn’t a logical argument. Also, they wouldn’t be able to fit them anyway.

I wasn't making a "logical argument." I was observing that the resistance is about the population, not the location. And then posed a hypothetical to illustrate the point.

Yeah but it wasn’t even a plausible argument at all so it wasn’t a good example.

Not sure you are getting it.

If a population of students from a different SES were added to the population of current Wootton students, would you object?

I wouldn’t as long as it doesn’t cause overcrowding and become mega school or cause some ES to leave the cluster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I find interesting about the evolution of this thread is the complete abandonment of the claim that opposition was based in "the ability to talk to school." It is apparent that the opposition is rooted in fear of Wootton students being exposed to "others" that aren't of the same socio-economic status. It has nothing to do with the location of the building itself. If the proposal were to leave the kids in the current building and add some others, opposition would be the same. For example, if it were possible to fully renovate/rebuild the Wootton building over a summer and expand to increase capacity, moving a bunch of kids from GHS, how would you feel then?

It is disheartening.

Well, Wootton isn’t geographically close to any of the feeder elementary schools or middle schools for GHS. So it wouldn’t actually be logical. Crown is in a location that makes more sense for GHS feeders. We have a lot of high schools so really it isn’t a logical argument. Also, they wouldn’t be able to fit them anyway.

I wasn't making a "logical argument." I was observing that the resistance is about the population, not the location. And then posed a hypothetical to illustrate the point.

Yeah but it wasn’t even a plausible argument at all so it wasn’t a good example.

Not sure you are getting it.

If a population of students from a different SES were added to the population of current Wootton students, would you object?

I wouldn’t as long as it doesn’t cause overcrowding and become mega school or cause some ES to leave the cluster.

What does a "mega school" mean? What if it wasn't over-capacity, but the total capacity was similar to RM at 2500?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I find interesting about the evolution of this thread is the complete abandonment of the claim that opposition was based in "the ability to talk to school." It is apparent that the opposition is rooted in fear of Wootton students being exposed to "others" that aren't of the same socio-economic status. It has nothing to do with the location of the building itself. If the proposal were to leave the kids in the current building and add some others, opposition would be the same. For example, if it were possible to fully renovate/rebuild the Wootton building over a summer and expand to increase capacity, moving a bunch of kids from GHS, how would you feel then?

It is disheartening.

Well, Wootton isn’t geographically close to any of the feeder elementary schools or middle schools for GHS. So it wouldn’t actually be logical. Crown is in a location that makes more sense for GHS feeders. We have a lot of high schools so really it isn’t a logical argument. Also, they wouldn’t be able to fit them anyway.

I wasn't making a "logical argument." I was observing that the resistance is about the population, not the location. And then posed a hypothetical to illustrate the point.

Yeah but it wasn’t even a plausible argument at all so it wasn’t a good example.

Not sure you are getting it.

If a population of students from a different SES were added to the population of current Wootton students, would you object?

I wouldn’t as long as it doesn’t cause overcrowding and become mega school or cause some ES to leave the cluster.

What does a "mega school" mean? What if it wasn't over-capacity, but the total capacity was similar to RM at 2500?

RM has a capacity of 2220. I think it’s an ideal size. Above 2500 is too much. There is some hearsay about Crown will be expanded to 2700 in the future and that’s too many students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is off the rails and honestly insulting. There is literally half of Rosemont slated to go to Crown. The half that is going is from the Crown area. When my child graduated from Rosemont (and we live in Crown) he was in the ELA/compacted math class that was filled with the highest achievers, many of those who also lived in Crown. My child was in the 99th percentile and I am assuming the others were similar.

As it has been discussed numerous times-The plan is for them to get crown to capacity by adding ~1000 GHS students. Is it written on option H? No, but it’s been brought up at multiple meetings. And they keep saying “Most of Wootton will Probably stay together” so it’s not as clear as you think it is. Also, obviously you are thrilled at this prospect so of course you are for it-it 100% benefits you.

Yep. They love the idea of Wootton moving to Crown because it puts the #3 high school in MD right in their backyard. They didn’t have to buy a more expensive house and their kid will benefit by having lots of high achieving kids around him /her (as compared to today). What’s not to like?

And what’s wrong with that if the PP did want that for their child? Before you jump down my throat, I have no skin in this game, my kids will go to DHS one day down the line but I’ve been watching this topic closely because I want to see what happens with the holding school issue.

Back to the original point- as an outsider watching from the very beginning it seems the Wootton community began all of this controversy by arguing their school should jump the line of renovations and promoting this narrative that the building is in such a state of such shambles it should be moved immediately and is in such poor condition it can’t be used safely. Now we have option H thanks to that.

And the Crown community seems happy with the compromise of integrating their community with Wootton to solve 2 problems with one high school. That’s just how it seems to someone like me who is not too deeply invested either way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is off the rails and honestly insulting. There is literally half of Rosemont slated to go to Crown. The half that is going is from the Crown area. When my child graduated from Rosemont (and we live in Crown) he was in the ELA/compacted math class that was filled with the highest achievers, many of those who also lived in Crown. My child was in the 99th percentile and I am assuming the others were similar.

As it has been discussed numerous times-The plan is for them to get crown to capacity by adding ~1000 GHS students. Is it written on option H? No, but it’s been brought up at multiple meetings. And they keep saying “Most of Wootton will Probably stay together” so it’s not as clear as you think it is. Also, obviously you are thrilled at this prospect so of course you are for it-it 100% benefits you.

Yep. They love the idea of Wootton moving to Crown because it puts the #3 high school in MD right in their backyard. They didn’t have to buy a more expensive house and their kid will benefit by having lots of high achieving kids around him /her (as compared to today). What’s not to like?

And what’s wrong with that if the PP did want that for their child? Before you jump down my throat, I have no skin in this game, my kids will go to DHS one day down the line but I’ve been watching this topic closely because I want to see what happens with the holding school issue.

Back to the original point- as an outsider watching from the very beginning it seems the Wootton community began all of this controversy by arguing their school should jump the line of renovations and promoting this narrative that the building is in such a state of such shambles it should be moved immediately and is in such poor condition it can’t be used safely. Now we have option H thanks to that.

And the Crown community seems happy with the compromise of integrating their community with Wootton to solve 2 problems with one high school. That’s just how it seems to someone like me who is not too deeply invested either way.

I don’t understand why someone who isn’t invested either way would spend so much time trolling this thread

[Anonymous]

PP, agreed. As an outsider as well, this fierce opposition from Wootton parents to having their kids move to a brand new building makes it seem like the poor condition of the Wootton building was exaggerated. It’s not a good look.