Extreme resentment over mental load

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

Oh no! What will the neighbors say?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Who gets to decide when is the home happy?
Women just can't grasp how little it actually takes to make a man happy. They need about 3 things and women need about 1,000. And women can't understand why men don't just jump and complete 500 chores that he doesn't care about or even think to do because happiness was achieved 997 chores ago

What about the kids?

450 of those chores are for the kids. You misinterpret them as being for your wife's "happiness" when she's really just trying to help you fulfill your obligation as a dad.

AND because she has the ability to engage in planning a long term thinking, she also understand that a lot of what she's trying to get you to do is actually essential to your longterm happiness. Because if you do what you want, which is the bare minimum, your kids will eventually come to resent you and not want to spend time with you. And there is going to come a day when you suddenly want a family around you who cares about you. And you're going to be mad when your kids are like "Sorry, Dad, I'm so busy with work. Happy birthday though." Even though this is literally what you did to them and your wife for decades. This is precisely what all those things she's trying to get you to do is designed to prevent, but you are too shortsighted to realize this.

You will wind up angry and alone and wondering why your family has abandoned you, and I'm here to tell you that it's because you refused to give a damn about the happiness of your wife or children so they stopped giving a damn about yours.

This is a thread about optional tasks. It’s clear many of the posters here are unable to decide what’s important and prioritize.

The only person who ends up angry is the person who cannot prioritize and thinks her whole family should do the things she thinks is important.
-a woman who doesn’t engage in fake work

Is celebrating the holidays optional when you have kids?

Holidays, real vacations, sports, and experiences were not done at my aspergers in law’s home. Neither were birthday cakes.

Guess how they all turned out!?

Just fine?

1 divorced narc son with no friends or relationship w his kids. He works. No hobbies or friends.

1 unemployed single 42 yo son still living with them. Churns through hobbies and friends.

The 70-something parents have no friends, jsut cook, cook, read books, dont talk to each other much, and watch two movies a day for the last 5 decades.

Oh wow. Why would you marry someone like your ex DH and his loser family?

They lived abroad and out on a show once a year when I visited.

Met their son in Ivy grad school, gave him the benefit of the doubt too many times, he said he wanted the whole shebang, got married, had kids and he shut down. By then I saw his brother had untreated mental issues and so did his father and likely mother.
He himself got a neuropsych test, has several Dxs, refuses to treat them. I got the kids old enough to stick up for themselves and we divorced. He works a lot so I get the kids more than 90%.

Everyone is better off. Including him with less non-work adult responsibilities and pressures.

It doesn’t sound like you were very intelligent or had good judgment when you were dating. When you tell stories like that your husband and in-laws, you show yourself to be a fool. Your husband was born into that, but you chose that willingly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Who gets to decide when is the home happy?
Women just can't grasp how little it actually takes to make a man happy. They need about 3 things and women need about 1,000. And women can't understand why men don't just jump and complete 500 chores that he doesn't care about or even think to do because happiness was achieved 997 chores ago

What about the kids?

450 of those chores are for the kids. You misinterpret them as being for your wife's "happiness" when she's really just trying to help you fulfill your obligation as a dad.

AND because she has the ability to engage in planning a long term thinking, she also understand that a lot of what she's trying to get you to do is actually essential to your longterm happiness. Because if you do what you want, which is the bare minimum, your kids will eventually come to resent you and not want to spend time with you. And there is going to come a day when you suddenly want a family around you who cares about you. And you're going to be mad when your kids are like "Sorry, Dad, I'm so busy with work. Happy birthday though." Even though this is literally what you did to them and your wife for decades. This is precisely what all those things she's trying to get you to do is designed to prevent, but you are too shortsighted to realize this.

You will wind up angry and alone and wondering why your family has abandoned you, and I'm here to tell you that it's because you refused to give a damn about the happiness of your wife or children so they stopped giving a damn about yours.

This is a thread about optional tasks. It’s clear many of the posters here are unable to decide what’s important and prioritize.

The only person who ends up angry is the person who cannot prioritize and thinks her whole family should do the things she thinks is important.
-a woman who doesn’t engage in fake work

Is celebrating the holidays optional when you have kids?

No, of course it’s not optional. Many PPs are just saying that a lot of moms totally overdo it for the holidays. And they expect everyone else (usually the dad) to be on board with doing the excessive, pointless holiday tasks.

I’m in my 50s, and my parents didn’t make a big deal about holidays or birthdays. It completely sucked for me as a kid. People on this thread who are downplaying holidays and birthdays are in denial or are just completely clueless crappy parents.

I think they are imagining that we are all Monica and trying to make Chandler participate in planning the perfect Christmas.
But some of us are Pheobe and trying to figure out how to make our kids feel normal while they are having a completely different childhood than we did.
And some of us are Rachel and a little spoiled and have no idea how to make all of us happen.
Sure, the Monica’s need to relax. But the Pheobe and Rachel’s need Paul Rudd and Ross to help out!!

None of you complaining about your husbands are Phoebe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Who gets to decide when is the home happy?
Women just can't grasp how little it actually takes to make a man happy. They need about 3 things and women need about 1,000. And women can't understand why men don't just jump and complete 500 chores that he doesn't care about or even think to do because happiness was achieved 997 chores ago

What about the kids?

450 of those chores are for the kids. You misinterpret them as being for your wife's "happiness" when she's really just trying to help you fulfill your obligation as a dad.

AND because she has the ability to engage in planning a long term thinking, she also understand that a lot of what she's trying to get you to do is actually essential to your longterm happiness. Because if you do what you want, which is the bare minimum, your kids will eventually come to resent you and not want to spend time with you. And there is going to come a day when you suddenly want a family around you who cares about you. And you're going to be mad when your kids are like "Sorry, Dad, I'm so busy with work. Happy birthday though." Even though this is literally what you did to them and your wife for decades. This is precisely what all those things she's trying to get you to do is designed to prevent, but you are too shortsighted to realize this.

You will wind up angry and alone and wondering why your family has abandoned you, and I'm here to tell you that it's because you refused to give a damn about the happiness of your wife or children so they stopped giving a damn about yours.

This is a thread about optional tasks. It’s clear many of the posters here are unable to decide what’s important and prioritize.

The only person who ends up angry is the person who cannot prioritize and thinks her whole family should do the things she thinks is important.
-a woman who doesn’t engage in fake work

Is celebrating the holidays optional when you have kids?

Holidays, real vacations, sports, and experiences were not done at my aspergers in law’s home. Neither were birthday cakes.

Guess how they all turned out!?

Just fine?

+1. It was good enough for the son to find and hold a job, find a wife, and have some children.

Masking works until it doesn’t!

So everyone in that family fell apart after PP married into that family. Interesting...

Much more likely than one person mysteriously destabilizing an entire established family is one person shedding light on the longstanding dysfunction(s) everyone used to think were just normal family things.

Healthy groups shun dangerous outsiders. Unhealthy groups blame outsiders for pointing out their shit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Who gets to decide when is the home happy?
Women just can't grasp how little it actually takes to make a man happy. They need about 3 things and women need about 1,000. And women can't understand why men don't just jump and complete 500 chores that he doesn't care about or even think to do because happiness was achieved 997 chores ago

What about the kids?

450 of those chores are for the kids. You misinterpret them as being for your wife's "happiness" when she's really just trying to help you fulfill your obligation as a dad.

AND because she has the ability to engage in planning a long term thinking, she also understand that a lot of what she's trying to get you to do is actually essential to your longterm happiness. Because if you do what you want, which is the bare minimum, your kids will eventually come to resent you and not want to spend time with you. And there is going to come a day when you suddenly want a family around you who cares about you. And you're going to be mad when your kids are like "Sorry, Dad, I'm so busy with work. Happy birthday though." Even though this is literally what you did to them and your wife for decades. This is precisely what all those things she's trying to get you to do is designed to prevent, but you are too shortsighted to realize this.

You will wind up angry and alone and wondering why your family has abandoned you, and I'm here to tell you that it's because you refused to give a damn about the happiness of your wife or children so they stopped giving a damn about yours.

This is a thread about optional tasks. It’s clear many of the posters here are unable to decide what’s important and prioritize.

The only person who ends up angry is the person who cannot prioritize and thinks her whole family should do the things she thinks is important.
-a woman who doesn’t engage in fake work

Is celebrating the holidays optional when you have kids?

Holidays, real vacations, sports, and experiences were not done at my aspergers in law’s home. Neither were birthday cakes.

Guess how they all turned out!?

Just fine?

+1. It was good enough for the son to find and hold a job, find a wife, and have some children.

Masking works until it doesn’t!

So everyone in that family fell apart after PP married into that family. Interesting...

Much more likely than one person mysteriously destabilizing an entire established family is one person shedding light on the longstanding dysfunction(s) everyone used to think were just normal family things.

Healthy groups shun dangerous outsiders. Unhealthy groups blame outsiders for pointing out their shit.

Only unhealthy outsiders bind themselves willingly to unhealthy people and groups.

[Anonymous]

Not reading this whole thread but usually the mental load whiners discount what their partner does while overinflating their own contributions, while simultaneously inventing useless make work that they can cross off as yet another one of their own accomplishments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Who gets to decide when is the home happy?
Women just can't grasp how little it actually takes to make a man happy. They need about 3 things and women need about 1,000. And women can't understand why men don't just jump and complete 500 chores that he doesn't care about or even think to do because happiness was achieved 997 chores ago

What about the kids?

450 of those chores are for the kids. You misinterpret them as being for your wife's "happiness" when she's really just trying to help you fulfill your obligation as a dad.

AND because she has the ability to engage in planning a long term thinking, she also understand that a lot of what she's trying to get you to do is actually essential to your longterm happiness. Because if you do what you want, which is the bare minimum, your kids will eventually come to resent you and not want to spend time with you. And there is going to come a day when you suddenly want a family around you who cares about you. And you're going to be mad when your kids are like "Sorry, Dad, I'm so busy with work. Happy birthday though." Even though this is literally what you did to them and your wife for decades. This is precisely what all those things she's trying to get you to do is designed to prevent, but you are too shortsighted to realize this.

You will wind up angry and alone and wondering why your family has abandoned you, and I'm here to tell you that it's because you refused to give a damn about the happiness of your wife or children so they stopped giving a damn about yours.

This is a thread about optional tasks. It’s clear many of the posters here are unable to decide what’s important and prioritize.

The only person who ends up angry is the person who cannot prioritize and thinks her whole family should do the things she thinks is important.
-a woman who doesn’t engage in fake work

Is celebrating the holidays optional when you have kids?

Holidays, real vacations, sports, and experiences were not done at my aspergers in law’s home. Neither were birthday cakes.

Guess how they all turned out!?

Just fine?

1 divorced narc son with no friends or relationship w his kids. He works. No hobbies or friends.

1 unemployed single 42 yo son still living with them. Churns through hobbies and friends.

The 70-something parents have no friends, jsut cook, cook, read books, dont talk to each other much, and watch two movies a day for the last 5 decades.

Oh wow. Why would you marry someone like your ex DH and his loser family?

They lived abroad and out on a show once a year when I visited.

Met their son in Ivy grad school, gave him the benefit of the doubt too many times, he said he wanted the whole shebang, got married, had kids and he shut down. By then I saw his brother had untreated mental issues and so did his father and likely mother.
He himself got a neuropsych test, has several Dxs, refuses to treat them. I got the kids old enough to stick up for themselves and we divorced. He works a lot so I get the kids more than 90%.

Everyone is better off. Including him with less non-work adult responsibilities and pressures.

It doesn’t sound like you were very intelligent or had good judgment when you were dating. When you tell stories like that your husband and in-laws, you show yourself to be a fool. Your husband was born into that, but you chose that willingly.

She’s probably from an ethnic community where dating before marriage wasn’t encouraged and it was only appropriate to marry into a ‘good family,’ eg; being someone who went to an ivy grad school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Who gets to decide when is the home happy?
Women just can't grasp how little it actually takes to make a man happy. They need about 3 things and women need about 1,000. And women can't understand why men don't just jump and complete 500 chores that he doesn't care about or even think to do because happiness was achieved 997 chores ago

What about the kids?

450 of those chores are for the kids. You misinterpret them as being for your wife's "happiness" when she's really just trying to help you fulfill your obligation as a dad.

AND because she has the ability to engage in planning a long term thinking, she also understand that a lot of what she's trying to get you to do is actually essential to your longterm happiness. Because if you do what you want, which is the bare minimum, your kids will eventually come to resent you and not want to spend time with you. And there is going to come a day when you suddenly want a family around you who cares about you. And you're going to be mad when your kids are like "Sorry, Dad, I'm so busy with work. Happy birthday though." Even though this is literally what you did to them and your wife for decades. This is precisely what all those things she's trying to get you to do is designed to prevent, but you are too shortsighted to realize this.

You will wind up angry and alone and wondering why your family has abandoned you, and I'm here to tell you that it's because you refused to give a damn about the happiness of your wife or children so they stopped giving a damn about yours.

This is a thread about optional tasks. It’s clear many of the posters here are unable to decide what’s important and prioritize.

The only person who ends up angry is the person who cannot prioritize and thinks her whole family should do the things she thinks is important.
-a woman who doesn’t engage in fake work

Is celebrating the holidays optional when you have kids?

Holidays, real vacations, sports, and experiences were not done at my aspergers in law’s home. Neither were birthday cakes.

Guess how they all turned out!?

Just fine?

+1. It was good enough for the son to find and hold a job, find a wife, and have some children.

Masking works until it doesn’t!

So everyone in that family fell apart after PP married into that family. Interesting...

Much more likely than one person mysteriously destabilizing an entire established family is one person shedding light on the longstanding dysfunction(s) everyone used to think were just normal family things.

Healthy groups shun dangerous outsiders. Unhealthy groups blame outsiders for pointing out their shit.

She is not an outsider. She chose this family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

Would OP be satisfied if all her DH did was a last minute Target run for action figures?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Who gets to decide when is the home happy?
Women just can't grasp how little it actually takes to make a man happy. They need about 3 things and women need about 1,000. And women can't understand why men don't just jump and complete 500 chores that he doesn't care about or even think to do because happiness was achieved 997 chores ago

What about the kids?

450 of those chores are for the kids. You misinterpret them as being for your wife's "happiness" when she's really just trying to help you fulfill your obligation as a dad.

AND because she has the ability to engage in planning a long term thinking, she also understand that a lot of what she's trying to get you to do is actually essential to your longterm happiness. Because if you do what you want, which is the bare minimum, your kids will eventually come to resent you and not want to spend time with you. And there is going to come a day when you suddenly want a family around you who cares about you. And you're going to be mad when your kids are like "Sorry, Dad, I'm so busy with work. Happy birthday though." Even though this is literally what you did to them and your wife for decades. This is precisely what all those things she's trying to get you to do is designed to prevent, but you are too shortsighted to realize this.

You will wind up angry and alone and wondering why your family has abandoned you, and I'm here to tell you that it's because you refused to give a damn about the happiness of your wife or children so they stopped giving a damn about yours.

This is a thread about optional tasks. It’s clear many of the posters here are unable to decide what’s important and prioritize.

The only person who ends up angry is the person who cannot prioritize and thinks her whole family should do the things she thinks is important.
-a woman who doesn’t engage in fake work

Is celebrating the holidays optional when you have kids?

No, of course it’s not optional. Many PPs are just saying that a lot of moms totally overdo it for the holidays. And they expect everyone else (usually the dad) to be on board with doing the excessive, pointless holiday tasks.

I’m in my 50s, and my parents didn’t make a big deal about holidays or birthdays. It completely sucked for me as a kid. People on this thread who are downplaying holidays and birthdays are in denial or are just completely clueless crappy parents.

I think they are imagining that we are all Monica and trying to make Chandler participate in planning the perfect Christmas.
But some of us are Pheobe and trying to figure out how to make our kids feel normal while they are having a completely different childhood than we did.
And some of us are Rachel and a little spoiled and have no idea how to make all of us happen.
Sure, the Monica’s need to relax. But the Pheobe and Rachel’s need Paul Rudd and Ross to help out!!

None of you complaining about your husbands are Phoebe.

You know the childhoods and background of every random poster on this thread?

I think in an alternate universe Phoebe could have married the scientist from Minsk and been surprised to learn that he had autism and everything from filing the pediatrician co-pays with the HSA to signing the kids up for school to getting Christmas presents for his mom was on her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Who gets to decide when is the home happy?
Women just can't grasp how little it actually takes to make a man happy. They need about 3 things and women need about 1,000. And women can't understand why men don't just jump and complete 500 chores that he doesn't care about or even think to do because happiness was achieved 997 chores ago

What about the kids?

450 of those chores are for the kids. You misinterpret them as being for your wife's "happiness" when she's really just trying to help you fulfill your obligation as a dad.

AND because she has the ability to engage in planning a long term thinking, she also understand that a lot of what she's trying to get you to do is actually essential to your longterm happiness. Because if you do what you want, which is the bare minimum, your kids will eventually come to resent you and not want to spend time with you. And there is going to come a day when you suddenly want a family around you who cares about you. And you're going to be mad when your kids are like "Sorry, Dad, I'm so busy with work. Happy birthday though." Even though this is literally what you did to them and your wife for decades. This is precisely what all those things she's trying to get you to do is designed to prevent, but you are too shortsighted to realize this.

You will wind up angry and alone and wondering why your family has abandoned you, and I'm here to tell you that it's because you refused to give a damn about the happiness of your wife or children so they stopped giving a damn about yours.

This is a thread about optional tasks. It’s clear many of the posters here are unable to decide what’s important and prioritize.

The only person who ends up angry is the person who cannot prioritize and thinks her whole family should do the things she thinks is important.
-a woman who doesn’t engage in fake work

Is celebrating the holidays optional when you have kids?

Holidays, real vacations, sports, and experiences were not done at my aspergers in law’s home. Neither were birthday cakes.

Guess how they all turned out!?

Just fine?

1 divorced narc son with no friends or relationship w his kids. He works. No hobbies or friends.

1 unemployed single 42 yo son still living with them. Churns through hobbies and friends.

The 70-something parents have no friends, jsut cook, cook, read books, dont talk to each other much, and watch two movies a day for the last 5 decades.

Oh wow. Why would you marry someone like your ex DH and his loser family?

They lived abroad and out on a show once a year when I visited.

Met their son in Ivy grad school, gave him the benefit of the doubt too many times, he said he wanted the whole shebang, got married, had kids and he shut down. By then I saw his brother had untreated mental issues and so did his father and likely mother.
He himself got a neuropsych test, has several Dxs, refuses to treat them. I got the kids old enough to stick up for themselves and we divorced. He works a lot so I get the kids more than 90%.

Everyone is better off. Including him with less non-work adult responsibilities and pressures.

It doesn’t sound like you were very intelligent or had good judgment when you were dating. When you tell stories like that your husband and in-laws, you show yourself to be a fool. Your husband was born into that, but you chose that willingly.

She’s probably from an ethnic community where dating before marriage wasn’t encouraged and it was only appropriate to marry into a ‘good family,’ eg; being someone who went to an ivy grad school.

And then she uses that same distorted worldview that led her to conclude that this family was a "good family" to determine how a "good family" should be celebrating birthdays and holidays.

She saw the red flags and ignored them because ivy league and biological clocks were the most important thing to her. How is it the guy's fault that she married a loser for appearances? She got what she signed up for. She changed her mind and divorced. No harm no foul. But there is no reason to be resentful here. And he was useful in getting her what she wanted at the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Who gets to decide when is the home happy?
Women just can't grasp how little it actually takes to make a man happy. They need about 3 things and women need about 1,000. And women can't understand why men don't just jump and complete 500 chores that he doesn't care about or even think to do because happiness was achieved 997 chores ago

What about the kids?

450 of those chores are for the kids. You misinterpret them as being for your wife's "happiness" when she's really just trying to help you fulfill your obligation as a dad.

AND because she has the ability to engage in planning a long term thinking, she also understand that a lot of what she's trying to get you to do is actually essential to your longterm happiness. Because if you do what you want, which is the bare minimum, your kids will eventually come to resent you and not want to spend time with you. And there is going to come a day when you suddenly want a family around you who cares about you. And you're going to be mad when your kids are like "Sorry, Dad, I'm so busy with work. Happy birthday though." Even though this is literally what you did to them and your wife for decades. This is precisely what all those things she's trying to get you to do is designed to prevent, but you are too shortsighted to realize this.

You will wind up angry and alone and wondering why your family has abandoned you, and I'm here to tell you that it's because you refused to give a damn about the happiness of your wife or children so they stopped giving a damn about yours.

This is a thread about optional tasks. It’s clear many of the posters here are unable to decide what’s important and prioritize.

The only person who ends up angry is the person who cannot prioritize and thinks her whole family should do the things she thinks is important.
-a woman who doesn’t engage in fake work

Is celebrating the holidays optional when you have kids?

Holidays, real vacations, sports, and experiences were not done at my aspergers in law’s home. Neither were birthday cakes.

Guess how they all turned out!?

Just fine?

+1. It was good enough for the son to find and hold a job, find a wife, and have some children.

Masking works until it doesn’t!

So everyone in that family fell apart after PP married into that family. Interesting...

Much more likely than one person mysteriously destabilizing an entire established family is one person shedding light on the longstanding dysfunction(s) everyone used to think were just normal family things.

Healthy groups shun dangerous outsiders. Unhealthy groups blame outsiders for pointing out their shit.

And narcissists take other people's shortcomings and failures as a personal attack. These people are doing their best based on what life dealt them. OP was not forced to marry their son. He showed her who he was and she married him anyway.

It is not your job to marry into what you consider " dysfunction " and "shed light" on it. You are not Jesus. Marry your peer and shut up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Who gets to decide when is the home happy?
Women just can't grasp how little it actually takes to make a man happy. They need about 3 things and women need about 1,000. And women can't understand why men don't just jump and complete 500 chores that he doesn't care about or even think to do because happiness was achieved 997 chores ago

What about the kids?

450 of those chores are for the kids. You misinterpret them as being for your wife's "happiness" when she's really just trying to help you fulfill your obligation as a dad.

AND because she has the ability to engage in planning a long term thinking, she also understand that a lot of what she's trying to get you to do is actually essential to your longterm happiness. Because if you do what you want, which is the bare minimum, your kids will eventually come to resent you and not want to spend time with you. And there is going to come a day when you suddenly want a family around you who cares about you. And you're going to be mad when your kids are like "Sorry, Dad, I'm so busy with work. Happy birthday though." Even though this is literally what you did to them and your wife for decades. This is precisely what all those things she's trying to get you to do is designed to prevent, but you are too shortsighted to realize this.

You will wind up angry and alone and wondering why your family has abandoned you, and I'm here to tell you that it's because you refused to give a damn about the happiness of your wife or children so they stopped giving a damn about yours.

This is a thread about optional tasks. It’s clear many of the posters here are unable to decide what’s important and prioritize.

The only person who ends up angry is the person who cannot prioritize and thinks her whole family should do the things she thinks is important.
-a woman who doesn’t engage in fake work

Is celebrating the holidays optional when you have kids?

No, of course it’s not optional. Many PPs are just saying that a lot of moms totally overdo it for the holidays. And they expect everyone else (usually the dad) to be on board with doing the excessive, pointless holiday tasks.

I’m in my 50s, and my parents didn’t make a big deal about holidays or birthdays. It completely sucked for me as a kid. People on this thread who are downplaying holidays and birthdays are in denial or are just completely clueless crappy parents.

I think they are imagining that we are all Monica and trying to make Chandler participate in planning the perfect Christmas.
But some of us are Pheobe and trying to figure out how to make our kids feel normal while they are having a completely different childhood than we did.
And some of us are Rachel and a little spoiled and have no idea how to make all of us happen.
Sure, the Monica’s need to relax. But the Pheobe and Rachel’s need Paul Rudd and Ross to help out!!

None of you complaining about your husbands are Phoebe.

You know the childhoods and background of every random poster on this thread?

I think in an alternate universe Phoebe could have married the scientist from Minsk and been surprised to learn that he had autism and everything from filing the pediatrician co-pays with the HSA to signing the kids up for school to getting Christmas presents for his mom was on her.

Phoebe was a happy-go-lucky character. You and your ilk are not that. You have to make up some weird backstory that Phoebe made choices so she wasn’t happy to support your view that so many women are unhappy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

Sounds like living in a 2M dollar house prevents you from prioritizing your mental health.

Maybe if you sold that house and bought a 500k one, you won't need the demanding job. If you work a 9-5 with weekends off, you'd find 2 hours to focus on Christmas without caring about whether your DH is participating.