Athletes have such an edge

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What’s with the posters who are insulting others? I cannot believe adults are calling the non athletes “nerds.” I know it has gone both ways but that really sticks out as just awful - and stereotypical jock behavior (a la Revenge of the Nerds).

The whole “jock/nerd” thing is so silly. I think this is something that people who lack either athletic ability or academic achievement use to console themselves —- “the people who have what I don’t clearly must not have the skills I have.” People believe that’s some kind of natural law. In reality, of course, athletic and intellectual ability are probably normally and more or less independently distributed in the population. And then there is executive function and frustration tolerance, which make kids better at both and are also independently, normally distributed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s with the posters who are insulting others? I cannot believe adults are calling the non athletes “nerds.” I know it has gone both ways but that really sticks out as just awful - and stereotypical jock behavior (a la Revenge of the Nerds).

No no, kids use nerd as a term of endearment nowadays.

No one things this is endearing in this thread.

[Anonymous]

I was a nerd, complete with dorky glasses and a skinny body. I was a history fanatic. Came from a single mother home. No money. I was one of the best track athletes in the nation, and while I had high grades and scores (my high school was very good and my mother grabbed one of the handful of apartments to live there). I was admitted everywhere I applied. I was recruited by athletic factories and by the few schools in the top 25 that offer athletic scholarships. At 18 and with no parental guidance the athletic wooing process did not help me. I was in the middle academically of a school consistently ranked in the top 10 in US News, and given the scholarship was so valuable, that is where I attended. In some sense a good choice. But I was a social outcast being poor and the school only had majors for me which required even more school thereafter. Thank goodness for the kids people called nerds. They were my friends. I was not all that talented but poverty and desperation caused me to learn how to really extend myself competitively. In my immaturity I was hostile to the rich kids, viewing them as soft. It takes a while to sort these emotions out.

One thing I badly needed. It was adults working with me to find a match. Only years later did I see that some of the offers I dismissed as athletic factories would have been great choices. There were people working their way through schools, a wide choice of majors, and my grades and scores would have put me ahead. In other words, going to a place where I didn’t need the huge admissions advantage would have made sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was a nerd, complete with dorky glasses and a skinny body. I was a history fanatic. Came from a single mother home. No money. I was one of the best track athletes in the nation, and while I had high grades and scores (my high school was very good and my mother grabbed one of the handful of apartments to live there). I was admitted everywhere I applied. I was recruited by athletic factories and by the few schools in the top 25 that offer athletic scholarships. At 18 and with no parental guidance the athletic wooing process did not help me. I was in the middle academically of a school consistently ranked in the top 10 in US News, and given the scholarship was so valuable, that is where I attended. In some sense a good choice. But I was a social outcast being poor and the school only had majors for me which required even more school thereafter. Thank goodness for the kids people called nerds. They were my friends. I was not all that talented but poverty and desperation caused me to learn how to really extend myself competitively. In my immaturity I was hostile to the rich kids, viewing them as soft. It takes a while to sort these emotions out.

One thing I badly needed. It was adults working with me to find a match. Only years later did I see that some of the offers I dismissed as athletic factories would have been great choices. There were people working their way through schools, a wide choice of majors, and my grades and scores would have put me ahead. In other words, going to a place where I didn’t need the huge admissions advantage would have made sense.

Interesting take. What did you major in in college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of the anti athlete people have no idea either how Ivy admissions or general life works. Here is what if looks like in real life: Let's say there are two kids. Student A has a 3.9, 1350 SAT, 3 APs, and is an exceptionally good soccer player to the point where she is a recruited athlete. Student B has a 4.2, 1450 SAT, member of the chess club and a few other recreational-level activities (but nothing exceptional), and 5 APs. Of the two, it is clear to anyone without a weird chip on their shoulder that student A is the more compelling candidate and will be far more likely to do interesting and exceptional things in life. Student B has not demonstrated any reason why she is exceptional. Hence the admission boost for A.

WTAH?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s with the posters who are insulting others? I cannot believe adults are calling the non athletes “nerds.” I know it has gone both ways but that really sticks out as just awful - and stereotypical jock behavior (a la Revenge of the Nerds).

The whole “jock/nerd” thing is so silly. I think this is something that people who lack either athletic ability or academic achievement use to console themselves —- “the people who have what I don’t clearly must not have the skills I have.” People believe that’s some kind of natural law. In reality, of course, athletic and intellectual ability are probably normally and more or less independently distributed in the population. And then there is executive function and frustration tolerance, which make kids better at both and are also independently, normally distributed.

The jock/nerd thing only really serves to identify posters who are born earlier than the 1990s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, and yes most of life is faking it till you make it, so BS and narcissism go hand and hand, and since in formative years you have fawning sports parents and pep rally’s and cheerleaders all shouting how great you are, athletes develop outside confidence far beyond their actual skills.

You clearly have never seen a full grown adult “fan” screaming from the stands at your adolescent child on the court. Or a full grown adult coach screaming obscenities at your kid and telling them they are a loser because they scored 15 instead of 25 points.

Yeah, that PP doesn't know much about youth sports. I've had kids do all sorts of activities and it was only in sports where fake achievement was not routinely awarded. Even schools these days don't tell kids when they aren't doing well. It's all positive praise only in public school.

I think one of the reasons athletes do well is in the "participation trophy" era, they are the only kids who routinely hear that they didn't do a good job. Everyone else rarely hears a negative comment until college, which is why so many of them fall apart in college. The athletes, on the other hand, are made of sterner stuff because they've had years of training.

I agree and the continuous, incremental improvement that high level sports develop also makes athletes stand out to employers. Our DD learned the same in ballet and it has served her well. Many ballet dancers go into STEM. They’re work ethic is unsurpassed too. Our son plays a college sport and has ADD. My family wasn’t into sports despite some innate athletic talents but now I’m a huge proponent of them for certain kids who have that drive. Lifesaver for our child and many others. .

I'm the PP and I include dance in a similar category as far as teaching children about loss, critical feedback, and disappointment. My kid who did competitive dance had a similar experience. I imagine that the same thing could happen with competition chess, so it doesn't have to be athletics. But in the younger years at least, it is mostly athletics.

I remember talking to one of my kids' elementary teachers because she wanted some help organizing the classroom for a class activity. I had asked about whether she wanted a place for a prize to be displayed (the activity could have had a winner) and she sighed and said no and told me that most of the kids in the class had never lost so much as a board game and she did not have the time to structure a lesson on winning / losing when she was focused on an academic activity. Her comment always stuck with me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, and yes most of life is faking it till you make it, so BS and narcissism go hand and hand, and since in formative years you have fawning sports parents and pep rally’s and cheerleaders all shouting how great you are, athletes develop outside confidence far beyond their actual skills.

You clearly have never seen a full grown adult “fan” screaming from the stands at your adolescent child on the court. Or a full grown adult coach screaming obscenities at your kid and telling them they are a loser because they scored 15 instead of 25 points.

Yeah, that PP doesn't know much about youth sports. I've had kids do all sorts of activities and it was only in sports where fake achievement was not routinely awarded. Even schools these days don't tell kids when they aren't doing well. It's all positive praise only in public school.

I think one of the reasons athletes do well is in the "participation trophy" era, they are the only kids who routinely hear that they didn't do a good job. Everyone else rarely hears a negative comment until college, which is why so many of them fall apart in college. The athletes, on the other hand, are made of sterner stuff because they've had years of training.

I agree and the continuous, incremental improvement that high level sports develop also makes athletes stand out to employers. Our DD learned the same in ballet and it has served her well. Many ballet dancers go into STEM. They’re work ethic is unsurpassed too. Our son plays a college sport and has ADD. My family wasn’t into sports despite some innate athletic talents but now I’m a huge proponent of them for certain kids who have that drive. Lifesaver for our child and many others. .

My former high level athlete son just took up a hobby that’s a bit notorious for taking years to master. When I asked him about this very delayed gratification, he said that he knows what spending years getting good at something feels like because of his sport, so he’s not worried about it. He is also progressing really fast, and attributed that to having learned how to really practice a skill rather than just play around at it (deliberate practice is much less fun).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, and yes most of life is faking it till you make it, so BS and narcissism go hand and hand, and since in formative years you have fawning sports parents and pep rally’s and cheerleaders all shouting how great you are, athletes develop outside confidence far beyond their actual skills.

You clearly have never seen a full grown adult “fan” screaming from the stands at your adolescent child on the court. Or a full grown adult coach screaming obscenities at your kid and telling them they are a loser because they scored 15 instead of 25 points.

Yeah, that PP doesn't know much about youth sports. I've had kids do all sorts of activities and it was only in sports where fake achievement was not routinely awarded. Even schools these days don't tell kids when they aren't doing well. It's all positive praise only in public school.

I think one of the reasons athletes do well is in the "participation trophy" era, they are the only kids who routinely hear that they didn't do a good job. Everyone else rarely hears a negative comment until college, which is why so many of them fall apart in college. The athletes, on the other hand, are made of sterner stuff because they've had years of training.

I agree and the continuous, incremental improvement that high level sports develop also makes athletes stand out to employers. Our DD learned the same in ballet and it has served her well. Many ballet dancers go into STEM. They’re work ethic is unsurpassed too. Our son plays a college sport and has ADD. My family wasn’t into sports despite some innate athletic talents but now I’m a huge proponent of them for certain kids who have that drive. Lifesaver for our child and many others. .

My former high level athlete son just took up a hobby that’s a bit notorious for taking years to master. When I asked him about this very delayed gratification, he said that he knows what spending years getting good at something feels like because of his sport, so he’s not worried about it. He is also progressing really fast, and attributed that to having learned how to really practice a skill rather than just play around at it (deliberate practice is much less fun).

Bagpipes?

[Anonymous]

So?

Some people are born with high IQs and have tons of advantages. But if you’re born with any sort of physical advantage then that’s some sort of travesty?

And I’m saying this as a nerd with no athletic ability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My friend’s son has many offers from good schools - only one application submitted - and just committed to a school where he hadn’t applied.

Law of supply and demand dear. How many kids have perfect grades plus perfect SATs versus a stud athlete that has strong grades and strong SAT

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My friend’s son has many offers from good schools - only one application submitted - and just committed to a school where he hadn’t applied.

Law of supply and demand dear. How many kids have perfect grades plus perfect SATs versus a stud athlete that has strong grades and strong SAT

BS- provisional acceptance isn’t related to sat or grades. Yes, they still need to apply but it’s rare they won’t get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My friend’s son has many offers from good schools - only one application submitted - and just committed to a school where he hadn’t applied.

Law of supply and demand dear. How many kids have perfect grades plus perfect SATs versus a stud athlete that has strong grades and strong SAT

BS- provisional acceptance isn’t related to sat or grades. Yes, they still need to apply but it’s rare they won’t get in.

Athletes get a pre-read of their file (which includes grades, academic/athletic honors, SAT/ACT.......). If you get a favorable feedback from the admission office & coach, that is the time to apply. Most DI schools will want an athlete to apply early decision, thus it makes no sense for the athlete to apply ED if admission have not reviewed his/her whole file (including grades and SAT/ACT).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My friend’s son has many offers from good schools - only one application submitted - and just committed to a school where he hadn’t applied.

Law of supply and demand dear. How many kids have perfect grades plus perfect SATs versus a stud athlete that has strong grades and strong SAT

BS- provisional acceptance isn’t related to sat or grades. Yes, they still need to apply but it’s rare they won’t get in.

Athletes get a pre-read of their file (which includes grades, academic/athletic honors, SAT/ACT.......). If you get a favorable feedback from the admission office & coach, that is the time to apply. Most DI schools will want an athlete to apply early decision, thus it makes no sense for the athlete to apply ED if admission have not reviewed his/her whole file (including grades and SAT/ACT).

This is not necessarily true at a non division 1 school.

[Anonymous]

This is an absolutely unfair policy. It’s just one extracurricular but because of culture and money, it trips academics and all other extracurriculars.