Court: TJ's New Admission Policy Does Not Discriminate

[Anonymous]

underachievers are excluded, as they should be.

Anonymous wrote:How does a "race-blind process" exclude anyone?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Scotus ruling on affirmative action has no bearing on TJ's process, which has always been race blind.

I wouldn’t say it has no bearing at all. The part that stuck out to me, just from a quick reading of the majority opinion’s syllabus, was Roberts’ view of admissions as a zero-sum game: if you give a preference to someone based on their race, you effectively hurt someone else based on their race, and that’s unconstitutional. The Coalition’s job, should they end up before SCOTUS, is basically to prove that FCPS is actually giving preference to specific races through the TJ process, at which point the aforementioned logic takes hold and they probably win the case.

On the other hand, there’s a carve-out in the ruling where you’re allowed to mention race in your essays as long as you tie it back to another part of your identity (which I understand as allowing “I didn’t see scientists who looked like me growing up so I want to be that role model for other kids” and similar topics) and I could see FCPS pointing to that as an example of the only possible way race is considered in the TJ system. (All of this is speculation, of course.)

The PP was correct. The SCOTUS ruling is about race-based selection, whereas TJ uses a race-blind process that overwhelmingly selects one minority while excluding others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry strivers, but the Court’s Harvard and UNC result will have no impact on TJ’s policy. Enjoy your neighborhood school and all that!

#failedlawyer

[Anonymous]

Imagine a counter lawsuit claiming Black kids are being discriminated against in favor of Asian and White kids. There are real numbers to back that up as TJ is embarrassingly 4% Black even now with changes. It was under 2% Black before the changes. If a school is less than 2% Black in a county with 10% Black population, it's obvious there is an issue of justice with educational opportunity discrimination.

[Anonymous]

so, you meant a racial quota is lawful?

Anonymous wrote:Imagine a counter lawsuit claiming Black kids are being discriminated against in favor of Asian and White kids. There are real numbers to back that up as TJ is embarrassingly 4% Black even now with changes. It was under 2% Black before the changes. If a school is less than 2% Black in a county with 10% Black population, it's obvious there is an issue of justice with educational opportunity discrimination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh boy, this is really going to piss off all the Annandale Asians.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/05/23/thomas-jefferson-admissions-policy-upheld/

Supreme Court Rules Against Affirmative Action

https://www.wsj.com/articles/supreme-court-rules-against-affirmative-action-c94b5a9c

Oh boy, you must be really pissed.

LOL

Since the ruling was about colleges that explicitly used race as a factor, it has no bearing at all on TJ.

False, the SCOTUS opinion said that any system, whether through essays or other roundabout ways, results in an outcome where asians are negatively impacted, it is unconstitutional.

No.....

Not to mention that the TJ process favors Asians.

People will laugh, but Asians remain the only group in the TJ admissions process that significantly outperforms their application numbers. There’s no justification for the idea that it’s harder for Asian students to get in that students of other backgrounds.

Being "overrepresented" is not the standard. Same would the true at Harvard etc under the system the court struck down.

Agree with a PP that if TJ was starting new with the current policy, totally fine. If they made the change for this reason, that could be problematic.

Everyone knows they made the change to put bend to the test buying scandal.

#fakenews

The problem being contended:

* Some students are allegedly using unethical means ("prepping") to enjoy the benefits of being ascribed an advanced/gifted designation while circumventing the need to actually be advanced/gifted.

The enacted solution:

* Retain the advanced/gifted designation without alteration.
* Do not take action to address "prepping" as a problem directly, as that the new system is likewise subject to advantages through prepping.
* Reduce the ability of students who are in fact advanced/gifted to meaningfully distinguish themselves as such.
* Generalize the concept of "prepping" so as to stigmatize most forms of academic self-improvement.
* Ensure a general understanding that cheating via "prepping" is a malaise which is necessarily endemic to a specific racial group.
* Assume that ensuring geographically distributed admissions is sufficient to ensure that at least some of the admissions come from areas which are not susceptible to "prepping"-based exploitation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Imagine a counter lawsuit claiming Black kids are being discriminated against in favor of Asian and White kids. There are real numbers to back that up as TJ is embarrassingly 4% Black even now with changes. It was under 2% Black before the changes. If a school is less than 2% Black in a county with 10% Black population, it's obvious there is an issue of justice with educational opportunity discrimination.

Maybe a few AA students feel welcome at TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh boy, this is really going to piss off all the Annandale Asians.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/05/23/thomas-jefferson-admissions-policy-upheld/

Supreme Court Rules Against Affirmative Action

https://www.wsj.com/articles/supreme-court-rules-against-affirmative-action-c94b5a9c

Oh boy, you must be really pissed.

LOL

Since the ruling was about colleges that explicitly used race as a factor, it has no bearing at all on TJ.

False, the SCOTUS opinion said that any system, whether through essays or other roundabout ways, results in an outcome where asians are negatively impacted, it is unconstitutional.

No.....

Not to mention that the TJ process favors Asians.

People will laugh, but Asians remain the only group in the TJ admissions process that significantly outperforms their application numbers. There’s no justification for the idea that it’s harder for Asian students to get in that students of other backgrounds.

Being "overrepresented" is not the standard. Same would the true at Harvard etc under the system the court struck down.

Agree with a PP that if TJ was starting new with the current policy, totally fine. If they made the change for this reason, that could be problematic.

Everyone knows they made the change to put bend to the test buying scandal.

#fakenews

The problem being contended:

* Some students are allegedly using unethical means ("prepping") to enjoy the benefits of being ascribed an advanced/gifted designation while circumventing the need to actually be advanced/gifted.

The enacted solution:

* Retain the advanced/gifted designation without alteration.
* Do not take action to address "prepping" as a problem directly, as that the new system is likewise subject to advantages through prepping.
* Reduce the ability of students who are in fact advanced/gifted to meaningfully distinguish themselves as such.
* Generalize the concept of "prepping" so as to stigmatize most forms of academic self-improvement.
* Ensure a general understanding that cheating via "prepping" is a malaise which is necessarily endemic to a specific racial group.
* Assume that ensuring geographically distributed admissions is sufficient to ensure that at least some of the admissions come from areas which are not susceptible to "prepping"-based exploitation.

Who cares if they bought the test answers? I mean they paid good money for them so they probably deserve to get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh boy, this is really going to piss off all the Annandale Asians.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/05/23/thomas-jefferson-admissions-policy-upheld/

Supreme Court Rules Against Affirmative Action

https://www.wsj.com/articles/supreme-court-rules-against-affirmative-action-c94b5a9c

Oh boy, you must be really pissed.

LOL

Since the ruling was about colleges that explicitly used race as a factor, it has no bearing at all on TJ.

False, the SCOTUS opinion said that any system, whether through essays or other roundabout ways, results in an outcome where asians are negatively impacted, it is unconstitutional.

No.....

Not to mention that the TJ process favors Asians.

People will laugh, but Asians remain the only group in the TJ admissions process that significantly outperforms their application numbers. There’s no justification for the idea that it’s harder for Asian students to get in that students of other backgrounds.

Being "overrepresented" is not the standard. Same would the true at Harvard etc under the system the court struck down.

Agree with a PP that if TJ was starting new with the current policy, totally fine. If they made the change for this reason, that could be problematic.

Everyone knows they made the change to put bend to the test buying scandal.

Exactly! Most students admitted under the old system had purchased advanced access to test questions. They had no choice but to end the rampant cheating by changing the selection process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh boy, this is really going to piss off all the Annandale Asians.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/05/23/thomas-jefferson-admissions-policy-upheld/

Supreme Court Rules Against Affirmative Action

https://www.wsj.com/articles/supreme-court-rules-against-affirmative-action-c94b5a9c

Oh boy, you must be really pissed.

LOL

Since the ruling was about colleges that explicitly used race as a factor, it has no bearing at all on TJ.

False, the SCOTUS opinion said that any system, whether through essays or other roundabout ways, results in an outcome where asians are negatively impacted, it is unconstitutional.

No.....

Not to mention that the TJ process favors Asians.

People will laugh, but Asians remain the only group in the TJ admissions process that significantly outperforms their application numbers. There’s no justification for the idea that it’s harder for Asian students to get in that students of other backgrounds.

Being "overrepresented" is not the standard. Same would the true at Harvard etc under the system the court struck down.

Agree with a PP that if TJ was starting new with the current policy, totally fine. If they made the change for this reason, that could be problematic.

Everyone knows they made the change to put bend to the test buying scandal.

Exactly! Most students admitted under the old system had purchased advanced access to test questions. They had no choice but to end the rampant cheating by changing the selection process.

I wouldn't say most, but definitely not a negligible number of admitted students.

[Anonymous]

The initial intention is discriminating asians, but the processes they set up is actually race-blind, which is totally surprising.
first two years, a lot of qualified asians are rejected, but after asians figure out the processes and move to different middle schools instead of Mclean area, they catch up. This year the situation is much better and future is at lease not bad for asians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Imagine a counter lawsuit claiming Black kids are being discriminated against in favor of Asian and White kids. There are real numbers to back that up as TJ is embarrassingly 4% Black even now with changes. It was under 2% Black before the changes. If a school is less than 2% Black in a county with 10% Black population, it's obvious there is an issue of justice with educational opportunity discrimination.

based on this logic, for NBA and NFL, it's obvious there is an issue of justice with sport opportunity discrimination, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The initial intention is discriminating asians, but the processes they set up is actually race-blind, which is totally surprising.
first two years, a lot of qualified asians are rejected, but after asians figure out the processes and move to different middle schools instead of Mclean area, they catch up. This year the situation is much better and future is at lease not bad for asians.

Not bad for Asians as a whole, but the more qualified ones are less likely to be selected, compared to those who are switching schools for an automatic spot(though if too many do this, it will end up backfiring on them).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine a counter lawsuit claiming Black kids are being discriminated against in favor of Asian and White kids. There are real numbers to back that up as TJ is embarrassingly 4% Black even now with changes. It was under 2% Black before the changes. If a school is less than 2% Black in a county with 10% Black population, it's obvious there is an issue of justice with educational opportunity discrimination.

based on this logic, for NBA and NFL, it's obvious there is an issue of justice with sport opportunity discrimination, right?

Somebody just can’t resist using that NBA/NFL talking point over and over again, can they? Even when it’s been explained why it’s a poor analogy- they just love it too much to stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine a counter lawsuit claiming Black kids are being discriminated against in favor of Asian and White kids. There are real numbers to back that up as TJ is embarrassingly 4% Black even now with changes. It was under 2% Black before the changes. If a school is less than 2% Black in a county with 10% Black population, it's obvious there is an issue of justice with educational opportunity discrimination.

based on this logic, for NBA and NFL, it's obvious there is an issue of justice with sport opportunity discrimination, right?

Somebody just can’t resist using that NBA/NFL talking point over and over again, can they? Even when it’s been explained why it’s a poor analogy- they just love it too much to stop.

Tj and nba are perfect analogy, both of them should be merit based, race blind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine a counter lawsuit claiming Black kids are being discriminated against in favor of Asian and White kids. There are real numbers to back that up as TJ is embarrassingly 4% Black even now with changes. It was under 2% Black before the changes. If a school is less than 2% Black in a county with 10% Black population, it's obvious there is an issue of justice with educational opportunity discrimination.

based on this logic, for NBA and NFL, it's obvious there is an issue of justice with sport opportunity discrimination, right?

Somebody just can’t resist using that NBA/NFL talking point over and over again, can they? Even when it’s been explained why it’s a poor analogy- they just love it too much to stop.

Tj and nba are perfect analogy, both of them should be merit based, race blind.

NBA takes players from all over the world. Should TJ accept students from all over the world?