FCPS HS Boundary

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s amazing that after McAuliffe went down in flames after denigrating the importance of listening to parents we have a local school board not just embracing that view, but doing so on steroids.

They are listening to parents. Plenty of parents are okay with the new policy.

FCPS is a county wide school division in Virginia, What has not happened due to politicians and some contituents is "4. Provide for the consolidation of schools or redistricting of school boundaries or adopt pupil assignment plans whenever such procedure will contribute to the efficiency of the school division;":
https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacodefull/title22.1/chapter7/

That doesn't mean park 2 modulars or build additions when there are contiguous schools with open capacity. FX County has bond limits and any dime spent on West Potomac removed funding from needed capacity projects. That plus the Mount Vrnon-Lee Distrits at all levels fliipping the Saudis removed what should have been a new HS. Other side of the county.

Boggles the mind how spineless other BOS and SB members were...

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:DP - I get what the Lewis parent is saying (and no, my kids are not in the Lewis boundaries nor is it possible they’ll go there). I think what s/he is saying is all FCPS schools should be good by meeting a minimum threshold. And in the case of Lewis, what it needs is a larger number of students so that it can offer a range of APs like other schools. The SB seems to want all of the schools to be desirable and successful, which is admirable and what they should be doing. I would hope we can all agree on that. Likewise, if there are schools that are overcrowded, it makes sense to draw new boundaries to relieve that overcrowding. Thing is, I would guess most would agree with this - until they think it might affect their kid in what they perceive to be a negative way. We can’t just keep building additions when there is space. Any money available should be spent on renovations so that all schools are on similar footing. And re-drawing boundaries makes that possible.

This exactly, thank you PP!

Um... Lewis is an IB school.

They aren't going to have a full slate of AP classes no matter how many WSHS students you pull from their neighborhood school.

Well yes, that’s true as of right now. But more kids will translate to additional offerings. Plenty of runway between now and the 2026/2027 school year to make some positive changes at Lewis (don’t see how this could be accomplished any sooner, but I guess we will see)

But look how many they now have.....more than you think.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:DP - I get what the Lewis parent is saying (and no, my kids are not in the Lewis boundaries nor is it possible they’ll go there). I think what s/he is saying is all FCPS schools should be good by meeting a minimum threshold. And in the case of Lewis, what it needs is a larger number of students so that it can offer a range of APs like other schools. The SB seems to want all of the schools to be desirable and successful, which is admirable and what they should be doing. I would hope we can all agree on that. Likewise, if there are schools that are overcrowded, it makes sense to draw new boundaries to relieve that overcrowding. Thing is, I would guess most would agree with this - until they think it might affect their kid in what they perceive to be a negative way. We can’t just keep building additions when there is space. Any money available should be spent on renovations so that all schools are on similar footing. And re-drawing boundaries makes that possible.

This exactly, thank you PP!

Um... Lewis is an IB school.

They aren't going to have a full slate of AP classes no matter how many WSHS students you pull from their neighborhood school.

Well yes, that’s true as of right now. But more kids will translate to additional offerings. Plenty of runway between now and the 2026/2027 school year to make some positive changes at Lewis (don’t see how this could be accomplished any sooner, but I guess we will see)

But look how many they now have.....more than you think.

The public should get actual class sizes on every IB and AP class plus immersion per grade level, course, school. Excel format on transfers for optional programs like IB, AP, immersion, AAP, etc. Plus academy info. Plus the cost per puil for IB and AP. Each IB school gets an extra staff member as do some AP schools. Why? Note not 1 single cent of Gatehouse non-school based goes to IB program budget. It is in AP. IB is outsourcing while FCPS has internal instructional services.

[Anonymous]

I was thinking about a plan for Tysons/Herndon and came up with the following:

New Langley: Churchill Road, Colvin Run, Great Falls, Spring Hill, Westgate [assume Westbriar island reassigned to Colvin Run and part of Colvin Run to Great Falls]

New McLean: Chesterbrook, Franklin Sherman, Haycock, Kent Gardens, Lemon Road

New Marshall: [Dunn Loring], Freedom Hill, Shrevewood, Stenwood, Timber Lane, Westbriar

New Madison: Archer, Cunningham Park, Flint Hill, Marshall Road, Vienna, Wolftrap
New Herndon: Aldrin, Armstrong, Clearview, Dranesville, Forestville, Herndon, Hutchison

This puts parts of Tysons (bolded schools) at each of Langley, McLean, and Marshall, assigns more feeders to Madison because it's a slower growth area, and assigns even more feeders to Herndon because it's now a large school with 2700 seats. No split feeders and no attendance islands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was thinking about a plan for Tysons/Herndon and came up with the following:

New Langley: Churchill Road, Colvin Run, Great Falls, Spring Hill, Westgate [assume Westbriar island reassigned to Colvin Run and part of Colvin Run to Great Falls]

New McLean: Chesterbrook, Franklin Sherman, Haycock, Kent Gardens, Lemon Road

New Marshall: [Dunn Loring], Freedom Hill, Shrevewood, Stenwood, Timber Lane, Westbriar

New Madison: Archer, Cunningham Park, Flint Hill, Marshall Road, Vienna, Wolftrap
New Herndon: Aldrin, Armstrong, Clearview, Dranesville, Forestville, Herndon, Hutchison

This puts parts of Tysons (bolded schools) at each of Langley, McLean, and Marshall, assigns more feeders to Madison because it's a slower growth area, and assigns even more feeders to Herndon because it's now a large school with 2700 seats. No split feeders and no attendance islands.

I like this!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was thinking about a plan for Tysons/Herndon and came up with the following:

New Langley: Churchill Road, Colvin Run, Great Falls, Spring Hill, Westgate [assume Westbriar island reassigned to Colvin Run and part of Colvin Run to Great Falls]

New McLean: Chesterbrook, Franklin Sherman, Haycock, Kent Gardens, Lemon Road

New Marshall: [Dunn Loring], Freedom Hill, Shrevewood, Stenwood, Timber Lane, Westbriar

New Madison: Archer, Cunningham Park, Flint Hill, Marshall Road, Vienna, Wolftrap
New Herndon: Aldrin, Armstrong, Clearview, Dranesville, Forestville, Herndon, Hutchison

This puts parts of Tysons (bolded schools) at each of Langley, McLean, and Marshall, assigns more feeders to Madison because it's a slower growth area, and assigns even more feeders to Herndon because it's now a large school with 2700 seats. No split feeders and no attendance islands.

While you make think this is a great plan someone at the school board and FPAC said a reason for 8130 revision is to start all boundaries from scratch at all levels. Elementary, middle and high. If you think you’re safe good luck because the SB is about to cause a massive disruption.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:2003
Lee - 2092 students
Roughly 23% F/R lunch, 42% white, medium ESL rate (17.3%)

WS - 2259 students
Roughly 7% F/R lunch, 64% white, low ESL rate (7.5%)

2024
Lewis - 1675 students
Roughly 63% F/R lunch, 12% white, high ESL rate (30%)

WS - 2761 students
Roughly 17% F/R lunch, 48% white, low ESL rate (5%)

In 2003 Lee was middle of the road in FCPS. What happened?

IB put into Lee and several other schools

IB actually enabled easier transfer out with the liberal pupil placement policy

Immigrants concentrated in certain schools

2005 boundary change - removed hundreds of students from Lee just as it was getting expanded - some to South County, some to West Springfield; students that departed were on the wealthier end of the spectrum. FCPS knew this was the case

Pupil placement accelerated - FCPS refuses to budge on dropping IB and Lee

2015 boundary change - removed Daventry students - a relatively wealthy neighborhood

In the middle of all of this Great Schools came along and created winners and losers - English speaking Americans, particularly white, just stopped choosing houses in the Lee/Lewis boundary

That is how we got here. Notice the total number of students in 2003 at the two schools. Only different by 167 students. Now in 2024 - different by 1086 students.

Lewis is much smaller, much poorer, and has many more ESL students. The ESL rate at WS actually went down over the years.

The quality of the school (teachers, admin) is not necessarily different or subpar, but the demographics of the students is much different.

How should this be resolved? Long time homeowner wants to know.

If you sent the 230 Lewis students pupil placing to other high schools back to Lewis, Lewis would have over 1900 students, without rezoning.

Maybe. But this doesn’t do anything to alleviate the overcrowding at WS.

And until there is a good faith effort to make Lewis more attractive, parents in my community will continue to pupil place to higher rated schools.

WSHS doesn't need to alleviate any overcrowding.

They still have empty classrooms.

I have one kid at WSHS and one at Irving and have never heard them or any parent or teacher (of which I know quite a few) complain about overcrowding. I've heard people complain it's too competitive on sports teams, which is a symptom of such a big school, but I've never heard anyone wish there were fewer students at the school or that they would change our boundary. We are just going through a swell that I think will naturally correct itself. In the early 2000s, housing prices in 22152 were fairly reasonable and a lot of families or couples intending to have kids moved here. These were (for DC area) "middle class" families. Government jobs, couples with one parent staying at home, teachers, etc. But the people moving in now are not these families. Our housing prices are too high now. I really think the CIP projections are incorrect. There is no new development in West Springfield.

Very accurate observation.

After tge 2008 housing crisis, 22152 homes were snapped up by families with kids.

That is why the class of 2026 is so huge, nearly 150 more students than a typical WSHS high school class, and 2023, 2024, 2025 and 2027 are so big, roughly 75 to 100 more kids than a typical WSHS class.

They were all born between 2005 to 2010, when 22152 was one of the few affordable zip codes in FCPS for low to middle ranking military, GS10s, teachers, firefighters, mmid range office workers, and police officers.

None of those types of families, including enlisted military through captains, can afford to buy in 22152 any more, unless they luck into a hard to find townhouse.

Excellent point that illustrates the need for boundary changes. The new generation of the very same military and middle-GS employees that once were the core of solid middle-tier schools like WS can no longer afford to enjoy those supposed benefits that Fairfax County became famous for.

The only people who benefit from standing still are empty nesters who want their property sale to maximize in the next few years before retirement, or those with HS-aged (or soon-to-be) kids that will pass through the school system soon enough.

It's in the best interest of new federal employees and white-collar residents to support systemic changes that would ideally create satisfactory schools across FCPS. Many new hires, like me, are facing very limited options for a good balance of community and affordability in our living situation. It's easy to say make more sacrifices, live further out, but that's not feasible for most.

It is crazy that you came up with that argument based off my post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only way to really fix under performing schools is to pool them with a much larger population. Like pooling the entire populations of Lewis SoCo and WS. Something like that. Moving 350 kids will do nothing.

Yeah you need a big, BIG-ass school to really be able to offer all the classes and all the opportunities that exist more naturally at small yet affluent schools. ACHS (formerly TC Williams) has I think 2900 JUST in grades 10-12 and an additional amount in the 9th grade building. Moving a few neighborhoods won’t do it. Moving an entire ES will have more of an impact but not as much as people are hoping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was thinking about a plan for Tysons/Herndon and came up with the following:

New Langley: Churchill Road, Colvin Run, Great Falls, Spring Hill, Westgate [assume Westbriar island reassigned to Colvin Run and part of Colvin Run to Great Falls]

New McLean: Chesterbrook, Franklin Sherman, Haycock, Kent Gardens, Lemon Road

New Marshall: [Dunn Loring], Freedom Hill, Shrevewood, Stenwood, Timber Lane, Westbriar

New Madison: Archer, Cunningham Park, Flint Hill, Marshall Road, Vienna, Wolftrap
New Herndon: Aldrin, Armstrong, Clearview, Dranesville, Forestville, Herndon, Hutchison

This puts parts of Tysons (bolded schools) at each of Langley, McLean, and Marshall, assigns more feeders to Madison because it's a slower growth area, and assigns even more feeders to Herndon because it's now a large school with 2700 seats. No split feeders and no attendance islands.

While you make think this is a great plan someone at the school board and FPAC said a reason for 8130 revision is to start all boundaries from scratch at all levels. Elementary, middle and high. If you think you’re safe good luck because the SB is about to cause a massive disruption.

I was assuming there would be some ES and MS adjustments as well but they aren’t going to be able to relocate buildings so this was a scenario based on the capacities of the schools and the desire to eliminate any split feeders and attendance islands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only way to really fix under performing schools is to pool them with a much larger population. Like pooling the entire populations of Lewis SoCo and WS. Something like that. Moving 350 kids will do nothing.

The pro rezoning posts just keep getting crazier and crazier.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Lots of assumptions being made about who does and doesn't support adjustments. This is going to be akin to the common "boomer" vs. new generation conflict. As usual, older folks want to maintain what they feel they rightfully deserve, and younger families want a slice of the same pie.

There are a lot of young, very well-educated families who are completely priced out of top 10 schools. You bet they support boundary changes that make more schools acceptable and affordable. You'd be crazy not to in that position.

spot on! Especially in 22153 (Saratoga/Newington). I’ve talked to many families over the years who either moved or are planning to move/pupil place/private school before HS. Unfortunately our little community of students isn’t large enough to help Lewis get on equal footing with other FCPS schools. Geographically, im not even sure why we are in the Lewis pyramid given that South County is closer in distance and ease of transportation. I wholeheartedly support the SB’s efforts to reasses boundaries and bring more kids to Lewis.

Why would you want people to suffer with you? You gotta sell. Luckily Saratoga is fairly desirable - decent housing stock, community pools and amenities, and convenient. And there’s plenty of “dog mom/dad” DINK buyers who like having more space vs. a condo in Arlington, as well as empty nesters, families with babies who will move out when their kid hits 1st grade, and Catholic school families, not to mention FCPS teachers who pupil place where mom or dad works. Or you could list for rent and get a nice military family to rent for a few years. Just sell and move to the other side of Pohick and your kids could be in bounds for Newington Forest and South County. Or move up the parkway to West Springfield! There’s nothing much that can help Lewis at this point as almost every other school surrounding it is high poverty or also under enrolled.

The only way Saratoga is getting out of Lewis is if ALL the development zoned for Edison comes to pass, and they decide to revisit the Lewis/Edison borders and end up shunting off Saratoga to South County, or if Lewis is closed entirely. Either scenario is AT LEAST 10 years off, conservatively.

I don’t view this as us “suffering together” rather bringing in more students and families like us, to help bring more balance (and thus, opportunities) to Lewis.

Our kids aren’t close to HS age yet, but this boundary assessment will definitely influence whether we join our neighbors in moving/pupil place/go private or if stick around and see if anything can be done to improve Lewis.

This seems like a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation for the SB. If they move kids, people will leave. If they don’t move kids, people will move. They can’t win either way.

Aha.

Well, first, you need to disabuse yourself of the notion that those being redistricted to Lewis are "families like us." They aren't, because they prioritized finding a house zoned to West Springfield rather than settling for Lewis.

Second, you need to anticipate that there will be a lot of attrition, because just because someone gets redistricted to Lewis doesn't mean they will passively accept this and not explore other options.

Third, you need to acknowledge that there are possibilities other than the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario you outlined. Schools can improve if the county encourages development in the surrounding area, or the school does a better job of meeting the needs of the kids who are already zoned for the school. Rezoning - just like adding IB - can be a very crude and not necessarily effective tool for trying to enhance a school's perceived quality.

Oh I see. So, because we were priced out of neighborhoods zoned for WS, our kids don’t deserve an equivalent education? Got it.

To your second point, I guess you missed the part where I suggested that families like mine also have options, and we will continue to exercise them if the SB continues to neglect the needs of the students at Lewis. Trying to stop pupil placements as a retention method ain’t gonna fly!

And as to your third point, there is quite literally no action that the SB can take that will appease everyone. So yes, damned if you do/don’t still applies.

No one buys "priced out" of an entire pyramid area, much less the pyramids of several outstanding high schools in the county. 99% of us can't have it all when we make decisions about buying and renting. In my case we compromised on townhouse size so kids share rooms. In your case you chose to compromise on schools. Something made you choose to live in the Lewis pyramid, and you feel entitled to "options" for your kids to attend school elsewhere.

You have no idea what our living situation is or what we sacrificed to live here. Just more foaming at the mouth from someone worried about protecting their property value.

Yes, what a travesty that you were forced to live in Springfield, VA, in the Lewis pyramid. There were clearly no other options within Fairfax county, in adjacent counties, or in other parts of Virginia or the DMV.

Huh? We chose the best pyramid we could afford with the shortest commute to our jobs. But if I’m following your logic, since we couldn’t afford to be in your perfect community, we should simply accept our crappy high school and shouldn’t get excited about the possibility of improvements to it. Did I get that right?

PP. So there it is. You prioritized commute. No one forced you accept a crappy high school- you made that decision. There are plenty of parents who sacrificed their commute or other things to make sure they did not compromise on their kids' high school. You are not one of them. No one is arguing about you celebrating the prospect of the SB moving better performing populations into your high school boundary, but don't expect others to agree with your expectation that you should be entitled to options other than the high school zone that you chose so you could have an easy commute.

Yes, we prioritized short commutes to preserve family time. So that means we are dammed to a sucky school foreve, amirite?

Trust me, I have zero expectation that the people on this board would agree with anything I have to say. But like you, I have an opinion and the right to express it.

What’s really got you upset is that there are ppl who actually support what the board is doing.

No, the PP is calling out your blatant hypocrisy and trying to mooch off of your neighbors. You should have to give up your nice commute, because other people in the county have longer commutes. See what I did there? Equity.

Mooch off my neighbors? Lol. Otay. Well, I guess you got me. I guess we’ll both be the losers in this fight. How’s that for equity?

Oh no, you have it wrong, my dear. My kids are not in danger of having to go to school with your kids. I’m not anywhere close to your school.

Sounds like a win for us both!

I guess, but you are trying to bring other families like mine into your school system to help your kids. You can’t have it both ways. Do you love me or hate me?

I know, I know, you hate me and people like me, but man doesn’t that just show how gross you’re being?

And therein lies the problem. It’s OUR school system, and yes, I support moving kids from overcrowded schools to under crowded ones.

I don’t know you and don’t care to, so I most certainly couldn’t hate you or hate on you. Stop being weird, if you can help it.

No one from WSHS is asking to be rezoned.

Maybe not out loud, but you should read the posts from
a few pages back. It seems that some of your neighbors are secretly in support of the move to reduce overcrowding and give them a little bump in their property value.

You clearly don’t speak for the whole community.

What bump would there be rezoning homes away from WSHS? You are crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
New Herndon: Aldrin, Armstrong, Clearview, Dranesville, Forestville, Herndon, Hutchison

Get ready for lawfare that will make what happened in Loudoun look tame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way to really fix under performing schools is to pool them with a much larger population. Like pooling the entire populations of Lewis SoCo and WS. Something like that. Moving 350 kids will do nothing.

Yeah you need a big, BIG-ass school to really be able to offer all the classes and all the opportunities that exist more naturally at small yet affluent schools. ACHS (formerly TC Williams) has I think 2900 JUST in grades 10-12 and an additional amount in the 9th grade building. Moving a few neighborhoods won’t do it. Moving an entire ES will have more of an impact but not as much as people are hoping.

Especially since a large percentage of those families getting rezoned from one of the top schools in the county to one of the worst schools in the county will either move the kids to one of the Catholic/Christian/private high schools, or discover a love of Japanese to transfer to Lake Braddock.

The remaining 25 to 40 kids per grade who are resentful about being transferred from their neighborhood school are not going to transform Lewis, no matter how often the pro rezoning folks repeat that those kids are the key to success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are missing the real problem here. There has been a HUGE drop in the quality of education in FCPS. The difference in the academics from when my oldest graduated Langley in 2019 and my now rising senior is night and day. We are not sending my rising freshman to Langley. We should have pulled him from Cooper. I couldn't care less about the quality of the facilities - I just want an educated child. So just know we can keep fighting about boundaries but the whole thing is crumbling underneath and we should hold the SB to account for that.

Agreed. Can’t speak to other high schools but Langley is less rigorous now. I had one graduate before 2019 and one a few months ago.
All my children are smart but no way my 2024 grad should have been able to pull consistently outstanding scores half asleep and with one hand tied behind her back as she did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Yeah you need a big, BIG-ass school to really be able to offer all the classes and all the opportunities that exist more naturally at small yet affluent schools. ACHS (formerly TC Williams) has I think 2900 JUST in grades 10-12 and an additional amount in the 9th grade building. Moving a few neighborhoods won’t do it. Moving an entire ES will have more of an impact but not as much as people are hoping.

They don't care about making failing students successful - deep down they know they can't do that. So instead they will make successful students fail, which is just as equitable to them. When everyone is failing, nobody is.