FCPS HS Boundary

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We just had school board elections. When are the next ones?

2027

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
^ One thing I will say is that the effort to get cell phones out of the classroom is a good one. That is another thing that makes it really hard for teachers. And parents need to support this effort. Parental support is often not there.

The only good things in FCPS education come from Youngkin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

We are told that in 2024 we can’t have nice schools any longer and must revamp boundaries because we have to spend more money on ESOL/FARMS kids and construction costs are too high.

It’s the School Board that makes this an overtly political discussion because they keep shouting from the rooftops that the fiscal and policy decisions of their own party have brought us to an unfortunate point where the people who pay the taxes and abide by the law no longer deserve nice things and should accept mediocrity or worse.

To hell with them and the candidates they support.

We were told this in 2002 (NCLB) if you were around back then. My kid graduated from WSHS in 2014 and his education was not nearly as good as what I got (graduated 1976). Why? Because even AP classes are not the same as an honors classes were in my day. We were taking notes like in college (no handouts, no canned materials that the teacher had not even read) and writing a LOT more. I was way more ready for college. Of course the teachers had to work hard too, but they did. Now it's a whole different story. Subpar materials that are written by people who were never teachers or who are not in a classroom (not experiencing what works). No immediate feedback that is on a deeper level (maybe that will change with AI . . . we will see).

Teachers are not appreciated nor will they put in more hours on the pay they get. There is no longer the kind of excitement a person gets from being creative and watching children grow.

Teachers can no longer afford to live in the school neighborhood, yet their students can (unless they have a partner who makes bank). As a result students do not see their teachers around them as much (outside of school). Many teachers are driving in from outer areas. I know teachers who do crazy things like take the train up from Fredericksburg and then get picked up and driven to school. Teachers who live out in Warrenton and work in Centreville. If they have an inservice over in Mount Vernon they stay overnight with another teacher. That kind of stuff.

Students do not have the same respect for teachers. Common question from my students: Why are you doing this? Couldn't you get a better job?

NCLB was basically a re-authorization of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 with a few tweaks - mainly in testing. Peo0l3 blame all sorts of things on NCLB but it wasn’t exactly new law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We are told that in 2024 we can’t have nice schools any longer and must revamp boundaries because we have to spend more money on ESOL/FARMS kids and construction costs are too high.

It’s the School Board that makes this an overtly political discussion because they keep shouting from the rooftops that the fiscal and policy decisions of their own party have brought us to an unfortunate point where the people who pay the taxes and abide by the law no longer deserve nice things and should accept mediocrity or worse.

To hell with them and the candidates they support.

We were told this in 2002 (NCLB) if you were around back then. My kid graduated from WSHS in 2014 and his education was not nearly as good as what I got (graduated 1976). Why? Because even AP classes are not the same as an honors classes were in my day. We were taking notes like in college (no handouts, no canned materials that the teacher had not even read) and writing a LOT more. I was way more ready for college. Of course the teachers had to work hard too, but they did. Now it's a whole different story. Subpar materials that are written by people who were never teachers or who are not in a classroom (not experiencing what works). No immediate feedback that is on a deeper level (maybe that will change with AI . . . we will see).

Teachers are not appreciated nor will they put in more hours on the pay they get. There is no longer the kind of excitement a person gets from being creative and watching children grow.

Teachers can no longer afford to live in the school neighborhood, yet their students can (unless they have a partner who makes bank). As a result students do not see their teachers around them as much (outside of school). Many teachers are driving in from outer areas. I know teachers who do crazy things like take the train up from Fredericksburg and then get picked up and driven to school. Teachers who live out in Warrenton and work in Centreville. If they have an inservice over in Mount Vernon they stay overnight with another teacher. That kind of stuff.

Students do not have the same respect for teachers. Common question from my students: Why are you doing this? Couldn't you get a better job?

NCLB was basically a re-authorization of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 with a few tweaks - mainly in testing. Peo0l3 blame all sorts of things on NCLB but it wasn’t exactly new law.

People are right. It was the requirements that all kids (even ones who don’t speak English) pass at the same rate that has created the issues. Republican Bush started it all.

The No Child Left Behind Act required states to implement minimum performance benchmarks for students, schools and school districts based on standardized testing. School districts were required to meet performance goals as a prerequisite to receive federal funding. The law required states to expand and develop standardized tests in both mathematics and reading, which were to be administered during from 3rd to 5th grade, 6th to 9th grade and 10th to 12th grade. Beginning in the 2007-2008 school year, schools were required to assess students in science once during each of those three grade spans. When the law was first enacted, 48 states had existing statewide tests in reading and mathematics. Of those states, 34 also administered tests in science, but not in all of the three grade spans. The federal government appropriated $2.34 billion in order to implement state assessments between 2002 and 2007.[6][7]

https://ballotpedia.org/No_Child_Left_Behind_Act#:~:text=The%20No%20Child%20Left%20Behind%20Act%20required%20states%20to%20implement,prerequisite%20to%20receive%20federal%20funding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP - I get what the Lewis parent is saying (and no, my kids are not in the Lewis boundaries nor is it possible they’ll go there). I think what s/he is saying is all FCPS schools should be good by meeting a minimum threshold. And in the case of Lewis, what it needs is a larger number of students so that it can offer a range of APs like other schools. The SB seems to want all of the schools to be desirable and successful, which is admirable and what they should be doing. I would hope we can all agree on that. Likewise, if there are schools that are overcrowded, it makes sense to draw new boundaries to relieve that overcrowding. Thing is, I would guess most would agree with this - until they think it might affect their kid in what they perceive to be a negative way. We can’t just keep building additions when there is space. Any money available should be spent on renovations so that all schools are on similar footing. And re-drawing boundaries makes that possible.

This exactly, thank you PP!

Um... Lewis is an IB school.

They aren't going to have a full slate of AP classes no matter how many WSHS students you pull from their neighborhood school.

Well yes, that’s true as of right now. But more kids will translate to additional offerings. Plenty of runway between now and the 2026/2027 school year to make some positive changes at Lewis (don’t see how this could be accomplished any sooner, but I guess we will see)

So basically, you want to screw the WSHS 9th, 10th and 11th graders who lose the draw and have to move to IB Lewis, then in 5 years do it again.

WSHS has one of the most compact boundaries in all of FCPS. In 2 rezoning cycles, you could end up with only 3 feeders to WSHS if you get your way.

They are not changing boundaries every 5 years. They are reviewing them every 5 years. Big difference.

Really. So then what is the difference between an evaluation and a review? As posted above, the website currently says boundaries are evaluated every year.
Anyone who has watched the past 6 or so years knows that is true. There were regular discussions about this or that boundary that needed adjusting.

The school board in a work session years ago specifically referred to changing boundaries as a “review.”

They changed their wording for redoing boundaries from scratch. They originally called it “the nuclear option” and rebranded it to “comprehensive review of our boundaries.”

[Anonymous]

Just because every boundary is reviewed every 5 years doesn't mean it will change every 5 years. Even in a "comprehensive review" this time where every boundary is looked at there will be some that won't change. That's after not having such a comprehensive review for 40 years. Why do you seem to think everything is going to change so much every 5 years?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


We were told this in 2002 (NCLB) if you were around back then. My kid graduated from WSHS in 2014 and his education was not nearly as good as what I got (graduated 1976). Why? Because even AP classes are not the same as an honors classes were in my day. We were taking notes like in college (no handouts, no canned materials that the teacher had not even read) and writing a LOT more. I was way more ready for college. Of course the teachers had to work hard too, but they did. Now it's a whole different story. Subpar materials that are written by people who were never teachers or who are not in a classroom (not experiencing what works). No immediate feedback that is on a deeper level (maybe that will change with AI . . . we will see).

Teachers are not appreciated nor will they put in more hours on the pay they get. There is no longer the kind of excitement a person gets from being creative and watching children grow.

Teachers can no longer afford to live in the school neighborhood, yet their students can (unless they have a partner who makes bank). As a result students do not see their teachers around them as much (outside of school). Many teachers are driving in from outer areas. I know teachers who do crazy things like take the train up from Fredericksburg and then get picked up and driven to school. Teachers who live out in Warrenton and work in Centreville. If they have an inservice over in Mount Vernon they stay overnight with another teacher. That kind of stuff.

Students do not have the same respect for teachers. Common question from my students: Why are you doing this? Couldn't you get a better job?
NCLB was basically a re-authorization of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 with a few tweaks - mainly in testing. Peo0l3 blame all sorts of things on NCLB but it wasn’t exactly new law.

You are wrong. It was a big, big change. I was teaching and we had meetings surrounding it. It required higher graduation rates (and no drop outs allowed anymore). That change alone watered down the curriculum. It caused a lot of issues in schools. Standardized testing was a big deal. ESEA was nothing. Suddenly improvement in test scores had to be shown and all of it made public. It was a big deal. Bush championed all of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2003
Lee - 2092 students
Roughly 23% F/R lunch, 42% white, medium ESL rate (17.3%)

WS - 2259 students
Roughly 7% F/R lunch, 64% white, low ESL rate (7.5%)

2024
Lewis - 1675 students
Roughly 63% F/R lunch, 12% white, high ESL rate (30%)

WS - 2761 students
Roughly 17% F/R lunch, 48% white, low ESL rate (5%)

In 2003 Lee was middle of the road in FCPS. What happened?

IB put into Lee and several other schools

IB actually enabled easier transfer out with the liberal pupil placement policy

Immigrants concentrated in certain schools

2005 boundary change - removed hundreds of students from Lee just as it was getting expanded - some to South County, some to West Springfield; students that departed were on the wealthier end of the spectrum. FCPS knew this was the case

Pupil placement accelerated - FCPS refuses to budge on dropping IB and Lee

2015 boundary change - removed Daventry students - a relatively wealthy neighborhood

In the middle of all of this Great Schools came along and created winners and losers - English speaking Americans, particularly white, just stopped choosing houses in the Lee/Lewis boundary

That is how we got here. Notice the total number of students in 2003 at the two schools. Only different by 167 students. Now in 2024 - different by 1086 students.

Lewis is much smaller, much poorer, and has many more ESL students. The ESL rate at WS actually went down over the years.

The quality of the school (teachers, admin) is not necessarily different or subpar, but the demographics of the students is much different.

How should this be resolved? Long time homeowner wants to know.

If you sent the 230 Lewis students pupil placing to other high schools back to Lewis, Lewis would have over 1900 students, without rezoning.

Maybe. But this doesn’t do anything to alleviate the overcrowding at WS.

And until there is a good faith effort to make Lewis more attractive, parents in my community will continue to pupil place to higher rated schools.

WSHS doesn't need to alleviate any overcrowding.

They still have empty classrooms.

I have one kid at WSHS and one at Irving and have never heard them or any parent or teacher (of which I know quite a few) complain about overcrowding. I've heard people complain it's too competitive on sports teams, which is a symptom of such a big school, but I've never heard anyone wish there were fewer students at the school or that they would change our boundary. We are just going through a swell that I think will naturally correct itself. In the early 2000s, housing prices in 22152 were fairly reasonable and a lot of families or couples intending to have kids moved here. These were (for DC area) "middle class" families. Government jobs, couples with one parent staying at home, teachers, etc. But the people moving in now are not these families. Our housing prices are too high now. I really think the CIP projections are incorrect. There is no new development in West Springfield.

Very accurate observation.

After tge 2008 housing crisis, 22152 homes were snapped up by families with kids.

That is why the class of 2026 is so huge, nearly 150 more students than a typical WSHS high school class, and 2023, 2024, 2025 and 2027 are so big, roughly 75 to 100 more kids than a typical WSHS class.

They were all born between 2005 to 2010, when 22152 was one of the few affordable zip codes in FCPS for low to middle ranking military, GS10s, teachers, firefighters, mmid range office workers, and police officers.

None of those types of families, including enlisted military through captains, can afford to buy in 22152 any more, unless they luck into a hard to find townhouse.

Excellent point that illustrates the need for boundary changes. The new generation of the very same military and middle-GS employees that once were the core of solid middle-tier schools like WS can no longer afford to enjoy those supposed benefits that Fairfax County became famous for.

The only people who benefit from standing still are empty nesters who want their property sale to maximize in the next few years before retirement, or those with HS-aged (or soon-to-be) kids that will pass through the school system soon enough.

It's in the best interest of new federal employees and white-collar residents to support systemic changes that would ideally create satisfactory schools across FCPS. Many new hires, like me, are facing very limited options for a good balance of community and affordability in our living situation. It's easy to say make more sacrifices, live further out, but that's not feasible for most.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just because every boundary is reviewed every 5 years doesn't mean it will change every 5 years. Even in a "comprehensive review" this time where every boundary is looked at there will be some that won't change. That's after not having such a comprehensive review for 40 years. Why do you seem to think everything is going to change so much every 5 years?

According to multiple posters we were a big fool to believe our kids would stay in the same district. Don’t be a big fool and trust the school board or rely on convention. They lie and you can go anywhere in FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2003
Lee - 2092 students
Roughly 23% F/R lunch, 42% white, medium ESL rate (17.3%)

WS - 2259 students
Roughly 7% F/R lunch, 64% white, low ESL rate (7.5%)

2024
Lewis - 1675 students
Roughly 63% F/R lunch, 12% white, high ESL rate (30%)

WS - 2761 students
Roughly 17% F/R lunch, 48% white, low ESL rate (5%)

In 2003 Lee was middle of the road in FCPS. What happened?

IB put into Lee and several other schools

IB actually enabled easier transfer out with the liberal pupil placement policy

Immigrants concentrated in certain schools

2005 boundary change - removed hundreds of students from Lee just as it was getting expanded - some to South County, some to West Springfield; students that departed were on the wealthier end of the spectrum. FCPS knew this was the case

Pupil placement accelerated - FCPS refuses to budge on dropping IB and Lee

2015 boundary change - removed Daventry students - a relatively wealthy neighborhood

In the middle of all of this Great Schools came along and created winners and losers - English speaking Americans, particularly white, just stopped choosing houses in the Lee/Lewis boundary

That is how we got here. Notice the total number of students in 2003 at the two schools. Only different by 167 students. Now in 2024 - different by 1086 students.

Lewis is much smaller, much poorer, and has many more ESL students. The ESL rate at WS actually went down over the years.

The quality of the school (teachers, admin) is not necessarily different or subpar, but the demographics of the students is much different.

How should this be resolved? Long time homeowner wants to know.

If you sent the 230 Lewis students pupil placing to other high schools back to Lewis, Lewis would have over 1900 students, without rezoning.

Maybe. But this doesn’t do anything to alleviate the overcrowding at WS.

And until there is a good faith effort to make Lewis more attractive, parents in my community will continue to pupil place to higher rated schools.

WSHS doesn't need to alleviate any overcrowding.

They still have empty classrooms.

I have one kid at WSHS and one at Irving and have never heard them or any parent or teacher (of which I know quite a few) complain about overcrowding. I've heard people complain it's too competitive on sports teams, which is a symptom of such a big school, but I've never heard anyone wish there were fewer students at the school or that they would change our boundary. We are just going through a swell that I think will naturally correct itself. In the early 2000s, housing prices in 22152 were fairly reasonable and a lot of families or couples intending to have kids moved here. These were (for DC area) "middle class" families. Government jobs, couples with one parent staying at home, teachers, etc. But the people moving in now are not these families. Our housing prices are too high now. I really think the CIP projections are incorrect. There is no new development in West Springfield.

Very accurate observation.

After tge 2008 housing crisis, 22152 homes were snapped up by families with kids.

That is why the class of 2026 is so huge, nearly 150 more students than a typical WSHS high school class, and 2023, 2024, 2025 and 2027 are so big, roughly 75 to 100 more kids than a typical WSHS class.

They were all born between 2005 to 2010, when 22152 was one of the few affordable zip codes in FCPS for low to middle ranking military, GS10s, teachers, firefighters, mmid range office workers, and police officers.

None of those types of families, including enlisted military through captains, can afford to buy in 22152 any more, unless they luck into a hard to find townhouse.

Excellent point that illustrates the need for boundary changes. The new generation of the very same military and middle-GS employees that once were the core of solid middle-tier schools like WS can no longer afford to enjoy those supposed benefits that Fairfax County became famous for.

The only people who benefit from standing still are empty nesters who want their property sale to maximize in the next few years before retirement, or those with HS-aged (or soon-to-be) kids that will pass through the school system soon enough.

It's in the best interest of new federal employees and white-collar residents to support systemic changes that would ideally create satisfactory schools across FCPS. Many new hires, like me, are facing very limited options for a good balance of community and affordability in our living situation. It's easy to say make more sacrifices, live further out, but that's not feasible for most.

Dumping a West Springfield feeder into Lewis isn’t going to turn central Springfield into Ashburn, which is what you are after (just closer). Your vision of uniform schools across Fairfax is a pipe dream.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because every boundary is reviewed every 5 years doesn't mean it will change every 5 years. Even in a "comprehensive review" this time where every boundary is looked at there will be some that won't change. That's after not having such a comprehensive review for 40 years. Why do you seem to think everything is going to change so much every 5 years?

According to multiple posters we were a big fool to believe our kids would stay in the same district. Don’t be a big fool and trust the school board or rely on convention. They lie and you can go anywhere in FCPS.

FCPS is the district. You will be staying in it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because every boundary is reviewed every 5 years doesn't mean it will change every 5 years. Even in a "comprehensive review" this time where every boundary is looked at there will be some that won't change. That's after not having such a comprehensive review for 40 years. Why do you seem to think everything is going to change so much every 5 years?

According to multiple posters we were a big fool to believe our kids would stay in the same district. Don’t be a big fool and trust the school board or rely on convention. They lie and you can go anywhere in FCPS.

FCPS is the district. You will be staying in it.

You know they meant pyramid or catchment area. Don’t be such a pedantic ass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because every boundary is reviewed every 5 years doesn't mean it will change every 5 years. Even in a "comprehensive review" this time where every boundary is looked at there will be some that won't change. That's after not having such a comprehensive review for 40 years. Why do you seem to think everything is going to change so much every 5 years?

According to multiple posters we were a big fool to believe our kids would stay in the same district. Don’t be a big fool and trust the school board or rely on convention. They lie and you can go anywhere in FCPS.

FCPS is the district. You will be staying in it.

Sweetie, read the post I responded to. That person was asking why we think it will change every 5 years. I’m giving your response “FCPS is the district”. As the answer why it will change every 5 years.

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

if you believe FCPS is the district and anyone can reasonably expect to attend any school in FCPS, then kids can obviously be moved by the school board every 5 years without any issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2003
Lee - 2092 students
Roughly 23% F/R lunch, 42% white, medium ESL rate (17.3%)

WS - 2259 students
Roughly 7% F/R lunch, 64% white, low ESL rate (7.5%)

2024
Lewis - 1675 students
Roughly 63% F/R lunch, 12% white, high ESL rate (30%)

WS - 2761 students
Roughly 17% F/R lunch, 48% white, low ESL rate (5%)

In 2003 Lee was middle of the road in FCPS. What happened?

IB put into Lee and several other schools

IB actually enabled easier transfer out with the liberal pupil placement policy

Immigrants concentrated in certain schools

2005 boundary change - removed hundreds of students from Lee just as it was getting expanded - some to South County, some to West Springfield; students that departed were on the wealthier end of the spectrum. FCPS knew this was the case

Pupil placement accelerated - FCPS refuses to budge on dropping IB and Lee

2015 boundary change - removed Daventry students - a relatively wealthy neighborhood

In the middle of all of this Great Schools came along and created winners and losers - English speaking Americans, particularly white, just stopped choosing houses in the Lee/Lewis boundary

That is how we got here. Notice the total number of students in 2003 at the two schools. Only different by 167 students. Now in 2024 - different by 1086 students.

Lewis is much smaller, much poorer, and has many more ESL students. The ESL rate at WS actually went down over the years.

The quality of the school (teachers, admin) is not necessarily different or subpar, but the demographics of the students is much different.

How should this be resolved? Long time homeowner wants to know.

If you sent the 230 Lewis students pupil placing to other high schools back to Lewis, Lewis would have over 1900 students, without rezoning.

Maybe. But this doesn’t do anything to alleviate the overcrowding at WS.

And until there is a good faith effort to make Lewis more attractive, parents in my community will continue to pupil place to higher rated schools.

WSHS doesn't need to alleviate any overcrowding.

They still have empty classrooms.

I have one kid at WSHS and one at Irving and have never heard them or any parent or teacher (of which I know quite a few) complain about overcrowding. I've heard people complain it's too competitive on sports teams, which is a symptom of such a big school, but I've never heard anyone wish there were fewer students at the school or that they would change our boundary. We are just going through a swell that I think will naturally correct itself. In the early 2000s, housing prices in 22152 were fairly reasonable and a lot of families or couples intending to have kids moved here. These were (for DC area) "middle class" families. Government jobs, couples with one parent staying at home, teachers, etc. But the people moving in now are not these families. Our housing prices are too high now. I really think the CIP projections are incorrect. There is no new development in West Springfield.

Very accurate observation.

After tge 2008 housing crisis, 22152 homes were snapped up by families with kids.

That is why the class of 2026 is so huge, nearly 150 more students than a typical WSHS high school class, and 2023, 2024, 2025 and 2027 are so big, roughly 75 to 100 more kids than a typical WSHS class.

They were all born between 2005 to 2010, when 22152 was one of the few affordable zip codes in FCPS for low to middle ranking military, GS10s, teachers, firefighters, mmid range office workers, and police officers.

None of those types of families, including enlisted military through captains, can afford to buy in 22152 any more, unless they luck into a hard to find townhouse.

Excellent point that illustrates the need for boundary changes. The new generation of the very same military and middle-GS employees that once were the core of solid middle-tier schools like WS can no longer afford to enjoy those supposed benefits that Fairfax County became famous for.

The only people who benefit from standing still are empty nesters who want their property sale to maximize in the next few years before retirement, or those with HS-aged (or soon-to-be) kids that will pass through the school system soon enough.

It's in the best interest of new federal employees and white-collar residents to support systemic changes that would ideally create satisfactory schools across FCPS. Many new hires, like me, are facing very limited options for a good balance of community and affordability in our living situation. It's easy to say make more sacrifices, live further out, but that's not feasible for most.

FCPS fame and success was because of the large contingent of educated parents (DC proximity) that had very successful students and student outcomes coupled with a FARMs rate of 10-15% across the whole county.

The county is currently 39% FARMs and rising with quite a few schools in the 50-60% range like Lewis. Add in efforts around equity(whether you agree or not) and NCLB and the general quality of education has been reduced, by design.

There are no boundary changes that will create that environment again. It exists in pockets like Oakton and Langley and to a lesser extent WSHS, but ultimately, the county needs to adjust to these changes in enrollment and capacity. Boundary changes are necessary, but moving a high performing elementary school into a low performing pyramid isn’t going to bring back FCPS of the 90s or even 2000s.

Kids can still get a great education but poverty is not without its problems.

[Anonymous]

The only way to really fix under performing schools is to pool them with a much larger population. Like pooling the entire populations of Lewis SoCo and WS. Something like that. Moving 350 kids will do nothing.