Affirmative Action should be income-based, not race-based

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Q to the bigot calling lower-income whites "white trash" while angrily accusing other people of being racist against blacks: are you black or white? I'm just curious.

There are a few posters here...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Q to the bigot calling lower-income whites "white trash" while angrily accusing other people of being racist against blacks: are you black or white? I'm just curious.

White lefty hypocrite is my guess.

[Anonymous]

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So why can’t a minority kid do that too?

That's a good option, too. But, if they get into a better school and can work it out financially, then why not attend the better school?

Because if that minority kid got into a better school due to the color of his skin, then his success came at the expense of someone else based on racial discrimination, and lest you have forgotten, we as a society have agreed to eliminate systemic racist policies.

What "expense"? The other kid has to attend a different college? He'll be FINE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Liberals on this forum are either clueless or in complete denial as a way to justify racial discrimination in college admissioms. Standards are lowered significantly in order to get more black students in, and of course that comes at the expense of whites. And Asians. Period.

And ironic how these same liberals, who are calling anyone a racist who objects to using race as a facfor (ironic right there), are also exhibiting a big WGAF where whitey is concerned. We've had disdainful remarks about "white trash" and how poor, white Billy with excellent grades can just suck it up at community college so Dashanda with the B can go to a four-year university. I am dumbfounded as to how a group,of people can condemn others with awful racist accusations, and then demonstrate their prejudice against whites - particularly low-income whites.

I say we've had two full generations of giving a big break to blacks, and that's enough. This claim that we can stop doing it when blacks have achieved the same level of success ignores the bad behavior more associated with blacks which leads to failure - notably, having the majority babies out-of-wedlock.

And finally, stop blaming slavery that happened generations before any of us were even born. Jews suffered thr massive discrimination imaginable during the lifetime of our parents, and that didn't stop them from studying, getting top scores and grades, and going to college - all while they listened to their parents crying over the murders of their relatives - AND while facing anti-Jewish quotas at the Ivies.

+1. But it’s more like Deshanda with the C.

You guys are assholes. What else is new. Same stupid conversation. Instead of working hard, you guys are the ones that are bitter, while YOU fall behind. If you can't make it as a white person in the country, that's your fault.

Seriously. People aren't taking anything from you. Your own failures are due to your own inadequacies. You're entitled to squat.

What an assumption to think that we object to unfair racial preferences due to our failures at white people. Your selfishness is showing through that you can only frame something in terms of what it does to you, or to the person speaking. I have been very successful, and my child is also very successful. Unlike YOU, my concern for fairness does not have to involve myself. I have sympathy for the lower-income whites who are bypassed in favor of black students with worse grades. All this "woe is me" for any and all blacks, even those with educated professional parents and the advantages that come with that, and a big FU to poor whites who, despite financial limitations and bigotry (like the elitist liberals calling them "white trash") manage to graduate in the top 5% of their high school.

The more I read from liberals here, the more I think 50 years of favoring black kids is enough. Unless they are poor, they need to compete against everyone - whites, Asians, and Jews. If their grades qualify for State U and not Tier 1, fine. I know plenty of state university graduates who have done extremely well in life.

Admissions are not just based on grades. Get over it. Your hood is showing. You don't know what the stats are. So do you want to take away preferences for legacy, athletics and everything else? I'm selfish? Really? Damn, you guys have everything and yet you cry about a few people - but I'm selfish. Do you want everything? 99% isn't enough?

So anyone who doesn’t support AA has a “hood” now? And maybe you need to get out of your elitist bubble more because not all white people “have everything.” Only the top 1% do, and they stealing more and more of it from all of us every day.

+1.

Together with some wealthy blacks and Hispanics and Asians of course.

Which is the whole point of this thread.

AA should be based on SES not skin color.

[Anonymous]

I haven’t read most of the responses, but in theory I wouldn’t have a problem with something like this (although obviously you’d need a more meaningful cutoff than 100k HHI- only in DCUM is that considered poor!). Generational poverty can be hard to escape, regardless of whether you are from poor Appalachia or inner city Baltimore. I’d be curious to know how much this would really shift the enrollment demographics anyway (surely someone has run some simulations?) because black and Hispanic families have lower median incomes and higher poverty rates anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Liberals on this forum are either clueless or in complete denial as a way to justify racial discrimination in college admissioms. Standards are lowered significantly in order to get more black students in, and of course that comes at the expense of whites. And Asians. Period.

And ironic how these same liberals, who are calling anyone a racist who objects to using race as a facfor (ironic right there), are also exhibiting a big WGAF where whitey is concerned. We've had disdainful remarks about "white trash" and how poor, white Billy with excellent grades can just suck it up at community college so Dashanda with the B can go to a four-year university. I am dumbfounded as to how a group,of people can condemn others with awful racist accusations, and then demonstrate their prejudice against whites - particularly low-income whites.

I say we've had two full generations of giving a big break to blacks, and that's enough. This claim that we can stop doing it when blacks have achieved the same level of success ignores the bad behavior more associated with blacks which leads to failure - notably, having the majority babies out-of-wedlock.

And finally, stop blaming slavery that happened generations before any of us were even born. Jews suffered thr massive discrimination imaginable during the lifetime of our parents, and that didn't stop them from studying, getting top scores and grades, and going to college - all while they listened to their parents crying over the murders of their relatives - AND while facing anti-Jewish quotas at the Ivies.

+1. But it’s more like Deshanda with the C.

You guys are assholes. What else is new. Same stupid conversation. Instead of working hard, you guys are the ones that are bitter, while YOU fall behind. If you can't make it as a white person in the country, that's your fault.

Seriously. People aren't taking anything from you. Your own failures are due to your own inadequacies. You're entitled to squat.

What an assumption to think that we object to unfair racial preferences due to our failures at white people. Your selfishness is showing through that you can only frame something in terms of what it does to you, or to the person speaking. I have been very successful, and my child is also very successful. Unlike YOU, my concern for fairness does not have to involve myself. I have sympathy for the lower-income whites who are bypassed in favor of black students with worse grades. All this "woe is me" for any and all blacks, even those with educated professional parents and the advantages that come with that, and a big FU to poor whites who, despite financial limitations and bigotry (like the elitist liberals calling them "white trash") manage to graduate in the top 5% of their high school.

The more I read from liberals here, the more I think 50 years of favoring black kids is enough. Unless they are poor, they need to compete against everyone - whites, Asians, and Jews. If their grades qualify for State U and not Tier 1, fine. I know plenty of state university graduates who have done extremely well in life.

Admissions are not just based on grades. Get over it. Your hood is showing. You don't know what the stats are. So do you want to take away preferences for legacy, athletics and everything else? I'm selfish? Really? Damn, you guys have everything and yet you cry about a few people - but I'm selfish. Do you want everything? 99% isn't enough?

Exactly. VERY passionate about getting rid of AA for black kids. Preference for legacy and athletes? UNCHANGEABLE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So why can’t a minority kid do that too?

That's a good option, too. But, if they get into a better school and can work it out financially, then why not attend the better school?

Because if that minority kid got into a better school due to the color of his skin, then his success came at the expense of someone else based on racial discrimination, and lest you have forgotten, we as a society have agreed to eliminate systemic racist policies.

What "expense"? The other kid has to attend a different college? He'll be FINE.

Please stick your “fine” where the sun don’t shine.

[Anonymous]

The percentage of African Americans admitted to top colleges has not really changed that much in the past 20 or 30 years except that a lot more African American women are getting graduate degrees.

The bigger change in college and graduate school admissions is the increase in Asian students at top colleges. That is at least partly due to the legal immigration system's preference to reject poor immigrants and only take those with advanced degrees or plenty of money to invest. Their kids are who are beating out your unexceptional Billys for elite college admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read most of the responses, but in theory I wouldn’t have a problem with something like this (although obviously you’d need a more meaningful cutoff than 100k HHI- only in DCUM is that considered poor!). Generational poverty can be hard to escape, regardless of whether you are from poor Appalachia or inner city Baltimore. I’d be curious to know how much this would really shift the enrollment demographics anyway (surely someone has run some simulations?) because black and Hispanic families have lower median incomes and higher poverty rates anyway.

Enlightened colleges should start doing this right away.

As a matter of fact, don't UC schools already do it?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Secondly I have to laugh at how people think going to college is the key to success, a good job and income security.

If that was the case then why aren’t minority college grads doing tough majors and going into law, medicine, consulting, appears, engineering jobs.

Instead they fill up gender and racial studies departments, become further enraged and victimized, and go on to make peanuts working for liberal NGOs, schools or esol programs.

Peanuts? Diversity deanships pay way more than many law firm jobs, sucker.

And they get paid to do nothing.

Paid to brainwash kids and appease the angry small mobs.

Someone in China and India can't stop laughing at our stupidity.

Yeah, because they are all so perfect.

What a random answer.

They are not perfect and they know they aren't. They are just catching up quickly and educating millions of engineers (for example) while we obsess with AA and ethnic studies.

Who exactly is “obsessed” with AA and ethnic studies?

What measurable impact does AA have? Positive and negative so we know the full picture.

And you think ethnic studies is displacing engineering? How so?

Have you been paying attention? Elite colleges like Stanford is so focused on AA that they admit URM students into their Physics major who are unable to successfully complete freshman year Physics classes. The impact is that they denied entry to other more qualified candidates who would have had no problem meeting these basic performance standards. They are also wasting resources constructing remedial courses for these unqualified students, instead of spending that money on research and other more worthwhile endeavors. Why is their physics department putting up a course called Diverse Perspectives in Physics. Where in the variable or constant representing diversity in any physics equation?

That's not "obsessed" - that is trying to close a HUGE, blaring achievement gap.

https://news.stanford.edu/2019/08/14/making-physics-inclusive/
"It was no surprise when, in 2016, a Stanford University survey of undergraduates revealed physics as among the least diverse departments at the university"

"“A lot of that is due to the lack of community and overall climate. People from underrepresented groups often do not feel welcome in physics classes.”"

“In the last five to eight years, there’s been a growing awareness about the importance of identity within the physics community,” said Lauren Tompkins, assistant professor of physics and member of the Equity and Inclusion Committee. “Your identity affects your experience as a physicist and even the physics that you do. If we can acknowledge and understand that, it makes us better physicists.”

"Students from underrepresented groups often don’t have the same level of preparation from high school as their majority peers. The difference in preparation is large enough that it may lead students to drop out of the major but small enough that the kind of support offered by this course can be enough to keep them in."

"“We want the students to see that they can pursue their love of physics and still make a social impact in the world,” said Meyer. “One reason for leaving the department frequently cited by underrepresented minorities is that they feel physics is not relevant to their communities, and I hope POISE changes that.”"

I will propose to you that if any student who fails freshman year physics class at Stanford gives the excuses that the classes don't feel welcome enough, then not only is that student unqualified academically to be in the physics degree, but he is of weak personal character. We are talking about Physics 41 for crying out loud, not a campfire gathering. The class is likely given in a large lecture hall with theater-style tiered seating, attended by hundreds of freshman students furious scribbling notes while the bald professor scratches out equations on the board and telling all students to save their questions for the TA session. With luck, the TA is a graduate student who speaks English as a first language. Physics is about math and observations - neither of which cares about the color of the student's skin. To measure a physics class in terms of how welcoming it feels is asinine.

If these students don't have the necessary level of preparation from high school, how in the world did they get into the Stanford program? Stanford is an elite university, not a remediation school for people who came up short.

Again, we are not talking about Quantum Physics or some other advanced topic that requires advanced math. This is freshman year Physics on Mechanics. This is like joining the swim team and finding out that you can't do one lap free style - you are simply unqualified.

The students are free to pursue their love of physics to their heart's content, but they don't qualify for being in Stanfard having taken the place of someone who absolutely qualifies!

Stanford is a private university and defines its own mission. The physics department there has stated that they value inclusion/diversity and they are working on ways to support that. They determine who is the best fit for their program and it is likely not just based on test scores (as is the case for many elite schools).

Given that the Stanford's physics dept is ranked #1 in the US they seem to know what they are doing. And guess what: the Stanford physic dept DGAF what you think, racist twit.

Ok, so your argument is now they are private, they can do whatever they want, including being racist if they want to. I agree with you that Stanford being a private University can do whatever they want - but they do receive government funding through R&D grants.

Why are you calling me racist when you are the one who supports the racist policy of Affirmative Action?

Why do we have Affirmative Action in the first place?

Someone thought it was a good idea to use a racist policy to attempt to reverse the effect of previous racist policies.

What are better ways to reverse the effect of previous racist policies?

Oh let’s see, anti discrimination laws, state and federal, to take two examples. Not sure that using racial preferences to combat racial preferences is the answer anymore. Heck even O’Connor said it should sunset.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why reward white trash who have failed in spite of their perks and privilege?

Vile comment. How are they being rewarded?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Liberals on this forum are either clueless or in complete denial as a way to justify racial discrimination in college admissioms. Standards are lowered significantly in order to get more black students in, and of course that comes at the expense of whites. And Asians. Period.

And ironic how these same liberals, who are calling anyone a racist who objects to using race as a facfor (ironic right there), are also exhibiting a big WGAF where whitey is concerned. We've had disdainful remarks about "white trash" and how poor, white Billy with excellent grades can just suck it up at community college so Dashanda with the B can go to a four-year university. I am dumbfounded as to how a group,of people can condemn others with awful racist accusations, and then demonstrate their prejudice against whites - particularly low-income whites.

I say we've had two full generations of giving a big break to blacks, and that's enough. This claim that we can stop doing it when blacks have achieved the same level of success ignores the bad behavior more associated with blacks which leads to failure - notably, having the majority babies out-of-wedlock.

And finally, stop blaming slavery that happened generations before any of us were even born. Jews suffered thr massive discrimination imaginable during the lifetime of our parents, and that didn't stop them from studying, getting top scores and grades, and going to college - all while they listened to their parents crying over the murders of their relatives - AND while facing anti-Jewish quotas at the Ivies.

+1. But it’s more like Deshanda with the C.

You guys are assholes. What else is new. Same stupid conversation. Instead of working hard, you guys are the ones that are bitter, while YOU fall behind. If you can't make it as a white person in the country, that's your fault.

Seriously. People aren't taking anything from you. Your own failures are due to your own inadequacies. You're entitled to squat.

By definition, AA policies applied to competition for limited resources is taking something away from an otherwise qualified candidate who got bumped due to having the wrong skin color. If people are truly entitled to squat, why are there AA policies that say URMs are entitled to preferential treatment?

Yes, all of the lefties yapping about math, STEM and studying don’t even know enough basic math to understand that.

Lefties love dogma and ideology, not math.

Questions for all of you math whizzes:

1. How many kids never attended college, strictly because of affirmative action displacing them?

2. What is their SES profile? rich/poor/MC?

Answers:

1. Zero

2. See #1

Exactly. The kids are all fine.

I guess some of them will have to be fine at lesser schools.

Sure, it’s all “fine” until PP’s kids have to do that.

I've already commented on my kids. They will be fine. They can even attend - gasp - state school and still have a happy, successful life.

Enjoy George Mason!

[Anonymous]

Whites are so scared of brown getting a sliver of pie.

[Anonymous]

White privilege = trying to dismantle a program for blacks and Hispanics and take it for themselves

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The percentage of African Americans admitted to top colleges has not really changed that much in the past 20 or 30 years except that a lot more African American women are getting graduate degrees.

The bigger change in college and graduate school admissions is the increase in Asian students at top colleges. That is at least partly due to the legal immigration system's preference to reject poor immigrants and only take those with advanced degrees or plenty of money to invest. Their kids are who are beating out your unexceptional Billys for elite college admissions.

Incorrect. Employment based immigration(includes both skilled and unskilled)/Investment based immigration make up only about 20-25% of the immigrants from the Asian countries for the past 40 years. Most immigrants are coming to US to seek better economic opportunities not typically because of their wealth. Stop spreading misinformation.