US Supreme Court Rules Against Affirmative Action in College Admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Be careful. There will still be Asians who don’t get in regardless of their high (test prepped) scores. Then they will go after the legacies and it will no longer be just an Asian vs. URM fight. This will be interesting since whites aren’t currently being substantially impacted by the case. Right now it’s basically swapping more Asians for less URMs. Let’s see what happens when Asians start to displace wealthy white applicants.

There are also plenty of Asians who are relatively weaker on tests, but great on other factors.

Look Berkeley which is race blind and test blind.
around 50% Asians?

Why are so many Asians obsessed with higher education and status? I get it, that’s how parts of Asia are, hyper competitive, cut throat, ruthless. I get it. Thank you so much for bringing that culture here, thanks.

What?

Jews are way way way more obsessed.

you do know Jewish overrepresenatjon rate in t10 schools is way higher than Asians.

And in the 80s and 90s schools like Penn had literally 20x over representation.

40% of Penn was Jewish at one point!

With a 2% population in the country.

Agree it’s both though, many of the Jewish students are legacy admits, esp at Penn, Wash U, etc.

Asians at least trying to get in via fair competition

Look how far rich Whites go
https://www.insider.com/college-admissions-scandal-full-list-people-sentenced-2019-9#parent-homayoun-zadeh-was-sentenced-to-6-weeks-in-prison-33

Is is really fair though? Is extra tutoring, unnecessary summer school, courses, etc. is that an even playing field?

Extra athletic training is also grossly unfair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Affirmative action is just another form of discrimination. And yes, Asians were definitely discriminated if you know anything about the true history of these great United States.

How were Irish immigrants treated in the late 1800s?
Most stayed in slum tenements near the ports where they arrived and lived in basements and attics with no water, sanitation, or daylight. Many children took to begging, and men often spent what little money they had on alcohol. The Irish immigrants were not well-liked and often treated badly. Employers had signs that read: Irish need not apply.

The Irish refugees seeking haven in America were poor and disease-ridden. They threatened to take jobs away from Americans and strain welfare budgets. They practiced an alien religion and pledged allegiance to a foreign leader. They were bringing with them crime. They were accused of being rapists.

Herded like livestock in dark, cramped quarters, the Irish passengers lacked sufficient food and clean water. They choked on fetid air. They were showered by excrement and vomit. Each adult was apportioned just 18 inches of bed space—children half that. Disease and death clung to the rancid vessels like barnacles, and nearly a quarter of the 85,000 passengers who sailed to North America aboard the aptly nicknamed “coffin ships” in 1847 never reached their destinations. Their bodies were wrapped in cloths, weighed down with stones and tossed overboard to sleep forever on the bed of the ocean floor.

Although most certainly tired and poor, the Irish did not arrive in America yearning to breathe free; they merely hungered to eat. Largely destitute, many exiles could progress no farther than within walking distance of the city docks where they disembarked. While some had spent all of their meager savings to pay for passage across the Atlantic, others had their voyages funded by British landlords who found it a cheaper solution to dispatch their tenants to another continent, rather than pay for their charity at home.

And in the opinion of many Americans, those British landlords were not sending their best people. These people were not like the industrious, Protestant Scotch-Irish immigrants who came to America in large numbers during the colonial era, fought in the Continental Army and tamed the frontier. These people were not only poor, unskilled refugees huddled in rickety tenements. Even worse, they were Catholic.

Although stereotyped as ignorant bogtrotters loyal only to the pope and ill-suited for democracy, and only recently given political rights by the British in their former home after centuries of denial, the Irish were deeply engaged in the political process in their new home. They voted in higher proportions than other ethnic groups. Their sheer numbers helped to propel William R. Grace to become the first Irish-Catholic mayor of New York City in 1880 and Hugh O’Brien the first Irish-Catholic mayor of Boston four years later.

A generation after the Great Hunger, the Irish controlled powerful political machines in cities across the United States and were moving up the social ladder into the middle class as an influx of immigrants from China and Southern and Eastern Europe took hold in the 1880s and 1890s. “Being from the British Isles, the Irish were now considered acceptable and assimilable to the American way of life,” Dolan writes.

Irish were not the only ones mistreated.

Why do people come here and expect to be treated better than they were in their own home country??

Why do people come here and expect to be treated better than just one immigrant generation before??

Get in line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if the top colleges accepted kids who were NOT tutored instead of kids who were tutored?

THAT would be interesting!

I support this.

DUMBEST idea ever. So you want underprepared students to run our country some day? Do you want them to design our buildings and infrastructure? My DC benefitted greatly from prep outside of public school. Public school preparation is a joke!

But if you’re receiving and paying for extra supplementation, tutoring outside of school, or basically attending double the amount of school as every one else, is that not an unfair advantage? It doesn’t make you any more intelligent, you’ve simply had more practice.

I bet you are willing and able to pay $$$ for your child to be involved in travel soccer, however. 🤦‍♀️

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Too many applicants were taking advantage of affirmative action, eg., claiming to be 1/8 Hispanic despite being from a wealthy white family (just bc a great-grandmother came from Spain).

Historically, College Board's National Hispanic Recognition Program required 1/4, or one grandparent, from a list of various countries. As far as I am aware, it still does.

Couldn't an applicant who got the NHRP award include it in the award section of the app? Colleges could ignore it, I suppose, but will they?

I think it’s unlikely the college board will retain a box for race/ethnicity.

The College Board Recognition Program awards for high school class of 2024 are already underway. College Board would have to nix the program.

I mean, that is one year, it likely will go away thereafter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be careful. There will still be Asians who don’t get in regardless of their high (test prepped) scores. Then they will go after the legacies and it will no longer be just an Asian vs. URM fight. This will be interesting since whites aren’t currently being substantially impacted by the case. Right now it’s basically swapping more Asians for less URMs. Let’s see what happens when Asians start to displace wealthy white applicants.

There are also plenty of Asians who are relatively weaker on tests, but great on other factors.

Look Berkeley which is race blind and test blind.
around 50% Asians?

Why are so many Asians obsessed with higher education and status? I get it, that’s how parts of Asia are, hyper competitive, cut throat, ruthless. I get it. Thank you so much for bringing that culture here, thanks.

What?

Jews are way way way more obsessed.

you do know Jewish overrepresenatjon rate in t10 schools is way higher than Asians.

And in the 80s and 90s schools like Penn had literally 20x over representation.

40% of Penn was Jewish at one point!

With a 2% population in the country.

Agree it’s both though, many of the Jewish students are legacy admits, esp at Penn, Wash U, etc.

Asians at least trying to get in via fair competition

Look how far rich Whites go
https://www.insider.com/college-admissions-scandal-full-list-people-sentenced-2019-9#parent-homayoun-zadeh-was-sentenced-to-6-weeks-in-prison-33

Is is really fair though? Is extra tutoring, unnecessary summer school, courses, etc. is that an even playing field?

Extra athletic training is also grossly unfair.

Because Asians do not value being athletic, it is "unfair"? Are you going to give the school the miliions it loses from not having good athletes??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if the top colleges accepted kids who were NOT tutored instead of kids who were tutored?

THAT would be interesting!

I support this.

DUMBEST idea ever. So you want underprepared students to run our country some day? Do you want them to design our buildings and infrastructure? My DC benefitted greatly from prep outside of public school. Public school preparation is a joke!

But if you’re receiving and paying for extra supplementation, tutoring outside of school, or basically attending double the amount of school as every one else, is that not an unfair advantage? It doesn’t make you any more intelligent, you’ve simply had more practice.

I bet you are willing and able to pay $$$ for your child to be involved in travel soccer, however. 🤦‍♀️

Don't be so offended by people who have different talents than you - isn't that what YOU are trying to tell the whites??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, there can never be an objective standard for admissions. There is always subjective judgment applied because there are limited spots. Someone is always left out.
It seems that this decision will allow for more hidden discrimination, not eliminate it, because admissions will be able to use subjective factors to make decisions.

They always used subjective factors well before this ruling.

Agree, but now there's even more available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Too many applicants were taking advantage of affirmative action, eg., claiming to be 1/8 Hispanic despite being from a wealthy white family (just bc a great-grandmother came from Spain).

Historically, College Board's National Hispanic Recognition Program required 1/4, or one grandparent, from a list of various countries. As far as I am aware, it still does.

Couldn't an applicant who got the NHRP award include it in the award section of the app? Colleges could ignore it, I suppose, but will they?

I think it’s unlikely the college board will retain a box for race/ethnicity.

^Clarification, you must mean the Common App

No I mean the college board. The common app won’t either of course.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I feel very emotional today even though I knew this was coming. I am asian and my child is asian and white, and yet I still felt overcome with sadness when I heard the opinion today. In particular, Chief Justice Roberts carving out an exception to allow affirmative action for military academies only and Justice Brown's dissent calling out the hypocrisy of the majority opinion wanting people of color to be recruited in "the bunkers but not the board room" was especially strong. And don't get me started on the irony of Justice Thomas' personal narrative arguing against it.

I’m so sick of this argument - suggesting Justice Thomas would not have succeeded without admissions standards being lowered to let him in to school. THIS IS THE STIGMA. What were his scores? Does anyone even know? His position is not ironic. Yours is.

Agree. So presumptuous and entitled. Fact is you don’t know the tests scores of the vast majority. Get over yourself.

Clarence Thomas himself has said that he was the recipient of AA in college/law school admissions. Some of you are really ignorant. Read FIRST before posting!

And how exactly would that make his position “ironic.” This is such a dumb take. If a white person argues against white supremacy, no one says, “it’s so ironic that you criticize white supremacy when you benefited!”

I’m the person you’re responding to (different than the other posters in this thread). I was responding to the person who talked about lower standards and Thomas’s success. I absolutely believe that his “success” is based on lowered standards that were used to advance conservatives’ political agenda. His time at the EEOC and the bench prove that. He’s incompetent. Argue with yourself.

Examples of two brilliant and highly capable Justices, beneficiaries of AA or not: Justices Marshall and Brown Jackson.

Thanks for clarifying. I think Justice Thomas is brilliant and way ahead of his time. Liberals are especially vicious to him because being a black and a conservative challenges their core stereotypes about what black people believe and need. I think history will be kind to him.

Clarence is NONE of those things. History (and the present) will not be kind to him. The AAMHC excluded him from their initial exhibits and he was whining and moaning about it to anyone who would listen.

The vasts majority of educated and accomplished Black people regard Clarence with considerable disdain.

That’s true. But can you think of other times when the vast majority of people have been wrong? I can.

Educated and accomplished Black people are not wrong about Clarence. We’ve known exactly who he is from the beginning.

Is there some reason you have to specific that the “educated and accomplished” ones agree with you. Maybe normal black people aren’t so left-wing ideologically obsessed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if the top colleges accepted kids who were NOT tutored instead of kids who were tutored?

THAT would be interesting!

I support this.

DUMBEST idea ever. So you want underprepared students to run our country some day? Do you want them to design our buildings and infrastructure? My DC benefitted greatly from prep outside of public school. Public school preparation is a joke!

But if you’re receiving and paying for extra supplementation, tutoring outside of school, or basically attending double the amount of school as every one else, is that not an unfair advantage? It doesn’t make you any more intelligent, you’ve simply had more practice.

You really think highly qualified well off white applicants aren't doing the same thing, except you call it "enrichment" or "supplementing"?

It's a constant refrain on all the school forums on this board like about MCPS, FCPS. "you should help your kids with XYZ that schools are not doing well"

With Asians it's somehow "prepping."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian-American students in our community have gained admission to elite schools over the years by presenting extracurriculars tied to their Saturday Schools as markers of "cultural authenticity" or ethnic "color." Being bilingual and functioning as leaders in their Chinese-American neighborhood = URM hook status. I kind of wonder if that will be a good strategy now. Maybe the implications of these lawsuits were not fully considered. Possibly this has all backfired.

This is one of the most thoughtful responses I've seen regarding this topic. Indeed, there will be consequences . And as you said, it is undoubtedly clear that , the consequences were not fully considered. This isn't the win that proponents think it is.

+2

Exactly. Asians just want slots, and this is not how to get them, but they don't know any better, and are being misinformed, and given an "us vs. them" false strategy. This will backfire BIG.

They are comparing apples and oranges, but do not see what they are doing.

I have no doubt that they already have a new strategy ready to roll.

Of course they are - endless strategies - still won't mean anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be careful. There will still be Asians who don’t get in regardless of their high (test prepped) scores. Then they will go after the legacies and it will no longer be just an Asian vs. URM fight. This will be interesting since whites aren’t currently being substantially impacted by the case. Right now it’s basically swapping more Asians for less URMs. Let’s see what happens when Asians start to displace wealthy white applicants.

There are also plenty of Asians who are relatively weaker on tests, but great on other factors.

Look Berkeley which is race blind and test blind.
around 50% Asians?

Why are so many Asians obsessed with higher education and status? I get it, that’s how parts of Asia are, hyper competitive, cut throat, ruthless. I get it. Thank you so much for bringing that culture here, thanks.

What?

Jews are way way way more obsessed.

you do know Jewish overrepresenatjon rate in t10 schools is way higher than Asians.

And in the 80s and 90s schools like Penn had literally 20x over representation.

40% of Penn was Jewish at one point!

With a 2% population in the country.

Agree it’s both though, many of the Jewish students are legacy admits, esp at Penn, Wash U, etc.

Asians at least trying to get in via fair competition

Look how far rich Whites go
https://www.insider.com/college-admissions-scandal-full-list-people-sentenced-2019-9#parent-homayoun-zadeh-was-sentenced-to-6-weeks-in-prison-33

Is is really fair though? Is extra tutoring, unnecessary summer school, courses, etc. is that an even playing field?

Extra athletic training is also grossly unfair.

Because Asians do not value being athletic, it is "unfair"? Are you going to give the school the miliions it loses from not having good athletes??

Then why complain that extra tutoring and test preparation is unfair?

Asian-Americans do understand the psychology of the Party of Jefferson Davis and KKK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if the top colleges accepted kids who were NOT tutored instead of kids who were tutored?

THAT would be interesting!

I support this.

DUMBEST idea ever. So you want underprepared students to run our country some day? Do you want them to design our buildings and infrastructure? My DC benefitted greatly from prep outside of public school. Public school preparation is a joke!

But if you’re receiving and paying for extra supplementation, tutoring outside of school, or basically attending double the amount of school as every one else, is that not an unfair advantage? It doesn’t make you any more intelligent, you’ve simply had more practice.

It also means that by the time you get to college you are significantly better prepared to learn at that level. Do we really expect people with bad preparation to catch up in a few years with kids who have been putting in the work? Also, btw, it’s possible to achieve a lot of this prep without spending a ton in it. The primary differentiator is that you value education and hard work.

[Anonymous]

To truly even the playing field, get rid of the legacy programs.

[Anonymous]

It’s amusing some people think anything will meaningfully change. It’s not like test scores and gpas will suddenly rule all.