Eight People Shot in Black Church in Charleston, South Carolina

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I think we both agree that Pam Geller provoked Radical Muslims with her Draw Mohammed contest, right? I do remember you being quite clear about that, though you supported her right to speak.

I support black activists right to speak. Don't be surprised though, if it provokes racists.

As I've said over and over again, the only one responsible for the deaths, is the one who pulled the trigger.

It's not 'blame shifting', it's reality. When you speak out, when you are provocative in any way, you attract evil as well as good. Geller understood this and was ready. I wish that the pastor had done the same.

The Draw Mohammed contest was deliberately provocative, and Pam Geller is known to be so. Pinckney was politically active, and sometimes controversial, but not provocative like Geller.

To say that a Wednesday night bible study class at an AME church is as provocative to a white supremacist as a contest to draw Mohammed is wrong. There's no provocation about a bible study class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think we both agree that Pam Geller provoked Radical Muslims with her Draw Mohammed contest, right? I do remember you being quite clear about that, though you supported her right to speak.

I support black activists right to speak. Don't be surprised though, if it provokes racists.

As I've said over and over again, the only one responsible for the deaths, is the one who pulled the trigger.

It's not 'blame shifting', it's reality. When you speak out, when you are provocative in any way, you attract evil as well as good. Geller understood this and was ready. I wish that the pastor had done the same.

The Draw Mohammed contest was deliberately provocative, and Pam Geller is known to be so. Pinckney was politically active, and sometimes controversial, but not provocative like Geller.

To say that a Wednesday night bible study class at an AME church is as provocative to a white supremacist as a contest to draw Mohammed is wrong. There's no provocation about a bible study class.

I'm not talking about the Bible study class. Pinckney was an activist as well, which is probably why this guy drove over an hour to target him and his church.

[Anonymous]

This is a really good article about the assumption of mental illness which the media automatically applies to white people who commit mass murders, even in the absence of any solid evidence. The label "mentally ill" in this case detracts from the real issue which is racist violence.

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/18/its_not_about_mental_illness_the_big_lie_that_always_follows_mass_shootings_by_white_males/

[Anonymous]

Wow, I just saw this. The victims families confront the shooter to say I Forgive You:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/us/charleston-church-shooting-main/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, I just saw this. The victims families confront the shooter to say I Forgive You:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/us/charleston-church-shooting-main/

The victims' families are driven by a higher power, not driven by an evil, deviant, poor excuse for a human being. I wish I was more like them because I feel nothing but disdain and contempt for Roof.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a really good article about the assumption of mental illness which the media automatically applies to white people who commit mass murders, even in the absence of any solid evidence. The label "mentally ill" in this case detracts from the real issue which is racist violence.

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/18/its_not_about_mental_illness_the_big_lie_that_always_follows_mass_shootings_by_white_males/

The sad thing about is I think it is all true.
Being able to label him crazy gives people an out, an excuse to deny the very real physical and pyscholgical violence of SYSTEMIC racism in this country .
If they can deny racism, they are happy as clams. If we don't claim it we don't have to fix it.
On the other hand, this boy seems line a paranoid schizophrenic, and they well obsess and hyper focus on certain authorities figures and groups as a manifestation of their paranoia. People saw he was melting down and did nothing to stop him, or help him.
Our mental health system is broken.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a really good article about the assumption of mental illness which the media automatically applies to white people who commit mass murders, even in the absence of any solid evidence. The label "mentally ill" in this case detracts from the real issue which is racist violence.

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/18/its_not_about_mental_illness_the_big_lie_that_always_follows_mass_shootings_by_white_males/

The sad thing about is I think it is all true.
Being able to label him crazy gives people an out, an excuse to deny the very real physical and pyscholgical violence of SYSTEMIC racism in this country .
If they can deny racism, they are happy as clams. If we don't claim it we don't have to fix it.
On the other hand, this boy seems line a paranoid schizophrenic, and they well obsess and hyper focus on certain authorities figures and groups as a manifestation of their paranoia. People saw he was melting down and did nothing to stop him, or help him.
Our mental health system is broken.

You're contradicting yourself. Yes, this mam was racist. However, there have been racists in this country for a long time. These mass shootings are a new phenenom, though. And I think they do point to mental illness and an illness in our modern culture.

[Anonymous]

My mother, who's 79-yo, says this - "I'm tired of the insanity plea. These people are just plain mean down to the core."

I have to agree.

Mean is mean is mean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're contradicting yourself. Yes, this mam was racist. However, there have been racists in this country for a long time. These mass shootings are a new phenenom, though. And I think they do point to mental illness and an illness in our modern culture.

I disagree. Such murders have been an irregular but consistent part of our country's culture for generations. We will respond as we always have by seeking explanations, mourning the tragedy, burying the dead, bickering about solutions, and in the end, do not a Goddamned thing except reset the clock that will count down to the next one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a really good article about the assumption of mental illness which the media automatically applies to white people who commit mass murders, even in the absence of any solid evidence. The label "mentally ill" in this case detracts from the real issue which is racist violence.

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/18/its_not_about_mental_illness_the_big_lie_that_always_follows_mass_shootings_by_white_males/

The sad thing about is I think it is all true.
Being able to label him crazy gives people an out, an excuse to deny the very real physical and pyscholgical violence of SYSTEMIC racism in this country .
If they can deny racism, they are happy as clams. If we don't claim it we don't have to fix it.
On the other hand, this boy seems line a paranoid schizophrenic, and they well obsess and hyper focus on certain authorities figures and groups as a manifestation of their paranoia. People saw he was melting down and did nothing to stop him, or help him.
Our mental health system is broken.

Right. And it allows conservatives to say that this was an isolated incident but I have to wonder how many white supremacists are out there applauding Roof's actions. It does take a unique psychological makeup to be able to carry out an atrocious act like this. But there are plenty of people out there who lack empathy and a conscience. If you combine extreme racist views with a lack of conscience and a willingness to die for a "cause" you have a really big problem and I don't believe that that combination is as rare as some people think. I have been expecting a racist backlash in this country for years and sadly, I believe we are going to see more of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're contradicting yourself. Yes, this mam was racist. However, there have been racists in this country for a long time. These mass shootings are a new phenenom, though. And I think they do point to mental illness and an illness in our modern culture.

I disagree. Such murders have been an irregular but consistent part of our country's culture for generations. We will respond as we always have by seeking explanations, mourning the tragedy, burying the dead, bickering about solutions, and in the end, do not a Goddamned thing except reset the clock that will count down to the next one.

Indeed. Before it was mass shootings, it was four little girls in Birmingham. http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/us/birmingham-charleston-church-attack-comparisons/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think we both agree that Pam Geller provoked Radical Muslims with her Draw Mohammed contest, right? I do remember you being quite clear about that, though you supported her right to speak.

I support black activists right to speak. Don't be surprised though, if it provokes racists.

As I've said over and over again, the only one responsible for the deaths, is the one who pulled the trigger.

It's not 'blame shifting', it's reality. When you speak out, when you are provocative in any way, you attract evil as well as good. Geller understood this and was ready. I wish that the pastor had done the same.

The Draw Mohammed contest was deliberately provocative, and Pam Geller is known to be so. Pinckney was politically active, and sometimes controversial, but not provocative like Geller.

To say that a Wednesday night bible study class at an AME church is as provocative to a white supremacist as a contest to draw Mohammed is wrong. There's no provocation about a bible study class.

You cannot possibly be comparing Gellar to Pinkney can you? Pinkney who dedicated his life to good and helping black people heal and stop killing each other. Isn't that always the criticism here? Black people kill black people and they don't ever say or do anything about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rick Perry has chimed in. It was "an accident". Well, that is a relief.

http://thinkprogress.org/election/2015/06/19/3672122/rick-perry-says-obama-administration-always-overreacts-accidents-like-charleston-shooting/

Perry thinks the murders had three causes, drugs, hate, and, uh, uh, uh, opps.

Actually he said no one had all the facts yet but talked about a theory, but he called the act evil and cowardly.

What drives me nuts is that Perry and Bush are happy to talk about "hate" because it gives them a way for their constituents to hear "anti-Christian hate" but they refuse to use the word "racism"

I don't like either of them, but I'm stunned. What is so wrong with calling racism by its name? Who does it hurt?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can anyone point out any media outlets ... or even DCUM posters for that matter ... that are denying this was racially motivated? I see that being thrown around like a straw man - to imply that whites don't acknowledge racism, I guess - but I don't actually see anyone denying this was a hate crime.

Forgive me for not reading 30 pages of this thread ... just the last 5 or 6 pages include numerous assertions that people are somehow denying the racial element here ... though those assertions are usually in posts related to genetic deficiencies and 'crazy ass white boys' so I suppose I should take them with a grain of salt.

The most outrageous attempt to shift blame I have seen was a post on page 6 of this thread that said this:

Anonymous wrote:Survivor reports: He said "I have to do it. You're taking over everything. Raping our women. You have to go."

Sigh. Activism breeds hate.

The only way I can interpret that is that it suggests that black activists provoked Roof.

I think we both agree that Pam Geller provoked Radical Muslims with her Draw Mohammed contest, right? I do remember you being quite clear about that, though you supported her right to speak.

I support black activists right to speak. Don't be surprised though, if it provokes racists.

As I've said over and over again, the only one responsible for the deaths, is the one who pulled the trigger.

It's not 'blame shifting', it's reality. When you speak out, when you are provocative in any way, you attract evil as well as good. Geller understood this and was ready. I wish that the pastor had done the same.

oh my god - you think the pastor should have been ready in case some white guy got bent out of shape over the Freddy Gray incident???!! If you have a daughter and she gets sexually assaulted, I hope you chastise her that she wasn't ready to defend herself against a guy who was mad at some woman who rejected him in the past.

Really??!! Do you actually reread what you write before you post it on DCUM?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:....and here's Fox News running the chyron "Attack on Faith"

http://mediamatters.org/video/2015/06/18/foxs-steve-doocy-its-extraordinary-that-charles/204043

That was one segment on their morning opinion show and it was specifically about how do you feel safe in church. Because if you can't feel safe there, than where?

But it wasn't an attack on faith. It was an attack on Black people that took place in a place of faith. It's like calling 9/11 an "Attack on Architecture"

Did you watch the segment? It featured a pastor talking about how you feel safe returning to church after an incident like this. No on said "This is an attack on faith and not a hate crime" It was one segment addressing that this happened in a church and church is the one place everyone should feel safe.

True but as I recall Steve Doocy said something about why are people assuming this is about race when it probably is or could be about religion?

Right, he posed that question before Dylann Roof made any confession about his motives.

It could have been a hate crime against african americans, a hate crime against christians or a hate crime against both. No one knew at that time, could only guess. I really don't see why his posing that question makes him the devil.

I see your point but I think it's a matter of nuance. I interpreted it as him rejecting the possibility of race out of hand. You probably interpreted it as him raising an interesting question -- what if it's only about Christianity? Okay, he's not the devil but it still seemed a clunky statement to me. Really, Steve, you don't think race was a factor? But I warrant that you may have been correct in your interpretation.

And therein lies the problem...

Ha - I wrote a nuanced paragraph acknowledging different points of view. You selected the part that supported your own point of view. I don't think I'm the one with the problem here.