Eight People Shot in Black Church in Charleston, South Carolina

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rick Perry has chimed in. It was "an accident". Well, that is a relief.

http://thinkprogress.org/election/2015/06/19/3672122/rick-perry-says-obama-administration-always-overreacts-accidents-like-charleston-shooting/

Perry thinks the murders had three causes, drugs, hate, and, uh, uh, uh, opps.

Actually he said no one had all the facts yet but talked about a theory, but he called the act evil and cowardly.

What drives me nuts is that Perry and Bush are happy to talk about "hate" because it gives them a way for their constituents to hear "anti-Christian hate" but they refuse to use the word "racism"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shame on the judge for making those remarks as if we should be sorry for the suspects parents. He did not need to make those statements while there were family members of the deceased in the courtroom.

You all don’t get it. These people who have lost loved ones are people of faith. In fact, Charleston has an abundance of people of faith. These people understand repentance and the need for forgiveness. The families of the victims would be some of the first to take the parents of this killer in their arms and mourn with them. Did you not hear these family members tell the killer that they forgive them and hope he seeks God love? The family members are in such pain, but they are God-fearing people who know how hate can eat them up. And, by the way, the judge did NOT ask people to feel sorry for the parents - he said they need support.

That's all fine and good, but if the judge violates the rules of criminal procedure by allowing a victim impact statement during arraignment then it's hardly worth it. Now perhaps the victim impact statement is allowable in SC to gauge severity of the crime in assessing bail--someone from the SC bar will have answer that--because I don't know.

He did not violate the rules. He cited the law in a subsequent interview.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rick Perry has chimed in. It was "an accident". Well, that is a relief.

http://thinkprogress.org/election/2015/06/19/3672122/rick-perry-says-obama-administration-always-overreacts-accidents-like-charleston-shooting/

Perry thinks the murders had three causes, drugs, hate, and, uh, uh, uh, opps.

Actually he said no one had all the facts yet but talked about a theory, but he called the act evil and cowardly.

well that took tremendous courage for him to say

*sarcasm*^^

Yes, we get that nothing he says will be enough for some people. I don't think there's any doubt that he, like most of us, finds this crime to be horrific, tragic, evil, inexcusable, racist (based on what we've heard about the shooter), etc. It is beyond despicable that these wonderful, prayerful, Godly people were in their church studying the Bible and showed him kindness, yet were gunned down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rick Perry has chimed in. It was "an accident". Well, that is a relief.

http://thinkprogress.org/election/2015/06/19/3672122/rick-perry-says-obama-administration-always-overreacts-accidents-like-charleston-shooting/

Perry thinks the murders had three causes, drugs, hate, and, uh, uh, uh, opps.

Actually he said no one had all the facts yet but talked about a theory, but he called the act evil and cowardly.

What drives me nuts is that Perry and Bush are happy to talk about "hate" because it gives them a way for their constituents to hear "anti-Christian hate" but they refuse to use the word "racism"

No matter what they say some people will twist it into an agenda or something malicious.

[Anonymous]

I'm glad we finally cleared up the issue about mental illness. He doesn't have it. He's just a vile, evil, murderer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can anyone point out any media outlets ... or even DCUM posters for that matter ... that are denying this was racially motivated? I see that being thrown around like a straw man - to imply that whites don't acknowledge racism, I guess - but I don't actually see anyone denying this was a hate crime.

Forgive me for not reading 30 pages of this thread ... just the last 5 or 6 pages include numerous assertions that people are somehow denying the racial element here ... though those assertions are usually in posts related to genetic deficiencies and 'crazy ass white boys' so I suppose I should take them with a grain of salt.

Here is another clueless Republican presidential candidate. This time, Jeb Bush. Roof tells the victims he is going to kill them because they are black and confesses to police that he hoped to start a race war. Here is what Bush says:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/19/jeb-bush-charleston_n_7621438.html

"I don't know what was on the mind or the heart of the man who committed these atrocious crimes," the former Florida governor said at the Faith & Freedom Coalition conference.

From the article:

UPDATE, 6/19, 12:05 p.m. -- The Huffington Post asked Jeb Bush on Friday whether the shooting was racially motivated. "It was a horrific act and I don't know what the background of it is, but it was an act of hatred," Bush said.

Asked again whether the shooting was because of race, Bush added, "I don't know. Looks like to me it was, but we'll find out all the information. It's clear it was an act of raw hatred, for sure. Nine people lost their lives, and they were African-American. You can judge what it is."

Not sure how making a statement and calling the crimes atrocious is clueless. Then when more facts came out about it being racially motivated he said "Looks like to me it was".

No where is he making excuses or denying this. He isn't even bringing up the mentally ill aspect. He is calling it out as horrific, which it was.

I think you are just looking to point fingers at republicans here.

I agree. Let's not grieve; let's just look instead for opportunistic pot-shots against Republican politicians and take their comments out of context. Because, after all, the loss of nine lives or the pathology that drove a young man to murder aren't nearly as important as burnishing your cred among fellow Democrats who might help you out professionally some day. Pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Talk about jumping to conclusions . . . How do we know that the shooter was not taught racism at home. I read their statement, but being sorry that he did kill does not address how such a young person learns such behavior.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can anyone point out any media outlets ... or even DCUM posters for that matter ... that are denying this was racially motivated? I see that being thrown around like a straw man - to imply that whites don't acknowledge racism, I guess - but I don't actually see anyone denying this was a hate crime.

Forgive me for not reading 30 pages of this thread ... just the last 5 or 6 pages include numerous assertions that people are somehow denying the racial element here ... though those assertions are usually in posts related to genetic deficiencies and 'crazy ass white boys' so I suppose I should take them with a grain of salt.

Here is another clueless Republican presidential candidate. This time, Jeb Bush. Roof tells the victims he is going to kill them because they are black and confesses to police that he hoped to start a race war. Here is what Bush says:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/19/jeb-bush-charleston_n_7621438.html

"I don't know what was on the mind or the heart of the man who committed these atrocious crimes," the former Florida governor said at the Faith & Freedom Coalition conference.

From the article:

UPDATE, 6/19, 12:05 p.m. -- The Huffington Post asked Jeb Bush on Friday whether the shooting was racially motivated. "It was a horrific act and I don't know what the background of it is, but it was an act of hatred," Bush said.

Asked again whether the shooting was because of race, Bush added, "I don't know. Looks like to me it was, but we'll find out all the information. It's clear it was an act of raw hatred, for sure. Nine people lost their lives, and they were African-American. You can judge what it is."

Not sure how making a statement and calling the crimes atrocious is clueless. Then when more facts came out about it being racially motivated he said "Looks like to me it was".

No where is he making excuses or denying this. He isn't even bringing up the mentally ill aspect. He is calling it out as horrific, which it was.

I think you are just looking to point fingers at republicans here.

I agree. Let's not grieve; let's just look instead for opportunistic pot-shots against Republican politicians and take their comments out of context. Because, after all, the loss of nine lives or the pathology that drove a young man to murder aren't nearly as important as burnishing your cred among fellow Democrats who might help you out professionally some day. Pathetic.

Oh come on. Every word Obama says is attacked incessantly. But your fragile candidates shouldn't be held to account for their cowardice in telling the truth?

This was a racist attack. Why can't they say so?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can anyone point out any media outlets ... or even DCUM posters for that matter ... that are denying this was racially motivated? I see that being thrown around like a straw man - to imply that whites don't acknowledge racism, I guess - but I don't actually see anyone denying this was a hate crime.

Forgive me for not reading 30 pages of this thread ... just the last 5 or 6 pages include numerous assertions that people are somehow denying the racial element here ... though those assertions are usually in posts related to genetic deficiencies and 'crazy ass white boys' so I suppose I should take them with a grain of salt.

Here is another clueless Republican presidential candidate. This time, Jeb Bush. Roof tells the victims he is going to kill them because they are black and confesses to police that he hoped to start a race war. Here is what Bush says:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/19/jeb-bush-charleston_n_7621438.html

"I don't know what was on the mind or the heart of the man who committed these atrocious crimes," the former Florida governor said at the Faith & Freedom Coalition conference.

From the article:

UPDATE, 6/19, 12:05 p.m. -- The Huffington Post asked Jeb Bush on Friday whether the shooting was racially motivated. "It was a horrific act and I don't know what the background of it is, but it was an act of hatred," Bush said.

Asked again whether the shooting was because of race, Bush added, "I don't know. Looks like to me it was, but we'll find out all the information. It's clear it was an act of raw hatred, for sure. Nine people lost their lives, and they were African-American. You can judge what it is."

Not sure how making a statement and calling the crimes atrocious is clueless. Then when more facts came out about it being racially motivated he said "Looks like to me it was".

No where is he making excuses or denying this. He isn't even bringing up the mentally ill aspect. He is calling it out as horrific, which it was.

I think you are just looking to point fingers at republicans here.

I agree. Let's not grieve; let's just look instead for opportunistic pot-shots against Republican politicians and take their comments out of context. Because, after all, the loss of nine lives or the pathology that drove a young man to murder aren't nearly as important as burnishing your cred among fellow Democrats who might help you out professionally some day. Pathetic.

Oh come on. Every word Obama says is attacked incessantly. But your fragile candidates shouldn't be held to account for their cowardice in telling the truth?

This was a racist attack. Why can't they say so?

He did. Right in the article.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I heard conservative media has been portraying this as an attack on Christianity (haven't seen myself; from a friend). So, interesting if he hasn't actually espoused anti-Christian views.

You are completely wrong. Conservative media I listen to would love to kill him with their own hands. Limbaugh called it terrorism. Glenn Beck went to Charleston the next day to pray with other religious folk. Hannity called it a terrible tragedy. Andrew Wilkow was spitting mad, calling him a flat-out racist and other deserved names.

Look it up yourself. "You heard" is not a valid excuse for spreading ignorance.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can anyone point out any media outlets ... or even DCUM posters for that matter ... that are denying this was racially motivated? I see that being thrown around like a straw man - to imply that whites don't acknowledge racism, I guess - but I don't actually see anyone denying this was a hate crime.

Forgive me for not reading 30 pages of this thread ... just the last 5 or 6 pages include numerous assertions that people are somehow denying the racial element here ... though those assertions are usually in posts related to genetic deficiencies and 'crazy ass white boys' so I suppose I should take them with a grain of salt.

Here is another clueless Republican presidential candidate. This time, Jeb Bush. Roof tells the victims he is going to kill them because they are black and confesses to police that he hoped to start a race war. Here is what Bush says:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/19/jeb-bush-charleston_n_7621438.html

"I don't know what was on the mind or the heart of the man who committed these atrocious crimes," the former Florida governor said at the Faith & Freedom Coalition conference.

From the article:

UPDATE, 6/19, 12:05 p.m. -- The Huffington Post asked Jeb Bush on Friday whether the shooting was racially motivated. "It was a horrific act and I don't know what the background of it is, but it was an act of hatred," Bush said.

Asked again whether the shooting was because of race, Bush added, "I don't know. Looks like to me it was, but we'll find out all the information. It's clear it was an act of raw hatred, for sure. Nine people lost their lives, and they were African-American. You can judge what it is."

Not sure how making a statement and calling the crimes atrocious is clueless. Then when more facts came out about it being racially motivated he said "Looks like to me it was".

No where is he making excuses or denying this. He isn't even bringing up the mentally ill aspect. He is calling it out as horrific, which it was.

I think you are just looking to point fingers at republicans here.

I agree. Let's not grieve; let's just look instead for opportunistic pot-shots against Republican politicians and take their comments out of context. Because, after all, the loss of nine lives or the pathology that drove a young man to murder aren't nearly as important as burnishing your cred among fellow Democrats who might help you out professionally some day. Pathetic.

Oh come on. Every word Obama says is attacked incessantly. But your fragile candidates shouldn't be held to account for their cowardice in telling the truth?

This was a racist attack. Why can't they say so?

The most coward polítician? President Obama, no doubt. SEVEN years in office, ZERO progress with gun control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can anyone point out any media outlets ... or even DCUM posters for that matter ... that are denying this was racially motivated? I see that being thrown around like a straw man - to imply that whites don't acknowledge racism, I guess - but I don't actually see anyone denying this was a hate crime.

Steve Doocy of Fox and Friends was initially skeptical of the Charleston shooting being a hate crime. http://s3.amazonaws.com/dk-production/images/12613/lightbox/TMW2012-12-19colorKOS.png?1355584910

I hope he has changed his mind.

That's called responsible journalism, i.e. not jumping to conclusions before the facts are in

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:....and here's Fox News running the chyron "Attack on Faith"

http://mediamatters.org/video/2015/06/18/foxs-steve-doocy-its-extraordinary-that-charles/204043

That was one segment on their morning opinion show and it was specifically about how do you feel safe in church. Because if you can't feel safe there, than where?

But it wasn't an attack on faith. It was an attack on Black people that took place in a place of faith. It's like calling 9/11 an "Attack on Architecture"

Did you watch the segment? It featured a pastor talking about how you feel safe returning to church after an incident like this. No on said "This is an attack on faith and not a hate crime" It was one segment addressing that this happened in a church and church is the one place everyone should feel safe.

True but as I recall Steve Doocy said something about why are people assuming this is about race when it probably is or could be about religion?

Right, he posed that question before Dylann Roof made any confession about his motives.

It could have been a hate crime against african americans, a hate crime against christians or a hate crime against both. No one knew at that time, could only guess. I really don't see why his posing that question makes him the devil.

I see your point but I think it's a matter of nuance. I interpreted it as him rejecting the possibility of race out of hand. You probably interpreted it as him raising an interesting question -- what if it's only about Christianity? Okay, he's not the devil but it still seemed a clunky statement to me. Really, Steve, you don't think race was a factor? But I warrant that you may have been correct in your interpretation.

And therein lies the problem...

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can anyone point out any media outlets ... or even DCUM posters for that matter ... that are denying this was racially motivated? I see that being thrown around like a straw man - to imply that whites don't acknowledge racism, I guess - but I don't actually see anyone denying this was a hate crime.

Forgive me for not reading 30 pages of this thread ... just the last 5 or 6 pages include numerous assertions that people are somehow denying the racial element here ... though those assertions are usually in posts related to genetic deficiencies and 'crazy ass white boys' so I suppose I should take them with a grain of salt.

The most outrageous attempt to shift blame I have seen was a post on page 6 of this thread that said this:

Anonymous wrote:Survivor reports: He said "I have to do it. You're taking over everything. Raping our women. You have to go."

Sigh. Activism breeds hate.

The only way I can interpret that is that it suggests that black activists provoked Roof.

I think we both agree that Pam Geller provoked Radical Muslims with her Draw Mohammed contest, right? I do remember you being quite clear about that, though you supported her right to speak.

I support black activists right to speak. Don't be surprised though, if it provokes racists.

As I've said over and over again, the only one responsible for the deaths, is the one who pulled the trigger.

It's not 'blame shifting', it's reality. When you speak out, when you are provocative in any way, you attract evil as well as good. Geller understood this and was ready. I wish that the pastor had done the same.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can anyone point out any media outlets ... or even DCUM posters for that matter ... that are denying this was racially motivated? I see that being thrown around like a straw man - to imply that whites don't acknowledge racism, I guess - but I don't actually see anyone denying this was a hate crime.

Forgive me for not reading 30 pages of this thread ... just the last 5 or 6 pages include numerous assertions that people are somehow denying the racial element here ... though those assertions are usually in posts related to genetic deficiencies and 'crazy ass white boys' so I suppose I should take them with a grain of salt.

Here is another clueless Republican presidential candidate. This time, Jeb Bush. Roof tells the victims he is going to kill them because they are black and confesses to police that he hoped to start a race war. Here is what Bush says:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/19/jeb-bush-charleston_n_7621438.html

"I don't know what was on the mind or the heart of the man who committed these atrocious crimes," the former Florida governor said at the Faith & Freedom Coalition conference.

From the article:

UPDATE, 6/19, 12:05 p.m. -- The Huffington Post asked Jeb Bush on Friday whether the shooting was racially motivated. "It was a horrific act and I don't know what the background of it is, but it was an act of hatred," Bush said.

Asked again whether the shooting was because of race, Bush added, "I don't know. Looks like to me it was, but we'll find out all the information. It's clear it was an act of raw hatred, for sure. Nine people lost their lives, and they were African-American. You can judge what it is."

Not sure how making a statement and calling the crimes atrocious is clueless. Then when more facts came out about it being racially motivated he said "Looks like to me it was".

No where is he making excuses or denying this. He isn't even bringing up the mentally ill aspect. He is calling it out as horrific, which it was.

I think you are just looking to point fingers at republicans here.

I agree. Let's not grieve; let's just look instead for opportunistic pot-shots against Republican politicians and take their comments out of context. Because, after all, the loss of nine lives or the pathology that drove a young man to murder aren't nearly as important as burnishing your cred among fellow Democrats who might help you out professionally some day. Pathetic.

Oh come on. Every word Obama says is attacked incessantly. But your fragile candidates shouldn't be held to account for their cowardice in telling the truth?

This was a racist attack. Why can't they say so?

Right after the incident is reported? Is that what you want from a president or a presidential candidate? I would rather they wait enough facts are in to make a firm statement. Obama was very wrong about the officer in Boston. He spoke too soon and came off as emotional and impulsive.