Eight People Shot in Black Church in Charleston, South Carolina

[Anonymous]

If you're really interested in Dylann Roof's motive and beliefs, then here's a link to his website "The Last Rhodesian" and his manifesto:
http://lastrhodesian.com/data/documents/rtf88.txt

[Anonymous]

A state senator should not be categorized as an activist. He was a legislative reformer working within the system for the benefit of the whole state. The activist label is used to marginalize him as representing a single issue or cause.

Activists are on the outside trying to be heard by government officials. Those working on the inside are reformers.

The comparison to Geller is offensive. He wasn't burning or pissing on the Confederate flag or the equivalent to provoke racists, he was performing the duties of a state senator professionally.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:If you're really interested in Dylann Roof's motive and beliefs, then here's a link to his website "The Last Rhodesian" and his manifesto:
http://lastrhodesian.com/data/documents/rtf88.txt

The document certainly sounds like him, but how do we know this is really his website?

[jsteele]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're really interested in Dylann Roof's motive and beliefs, then here's a link to his website "The Last Rhodesian" and his manifesto:
http://lastrhodesian.com/data/documents/rtf88.txt

The document certainly sounds like him, but how do we know this is really his website?

To answer my own question, the website contains a zip archive of many photos of Roof. Here is one example:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a really good article about the assumption of mental illness which the media automatically applies to white people who commit mass murders, even in the absence of any solid evidence. The label "mentally ill" in this case detracts from the real issue which is racist violence.

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/18/its_not_about_mental_illness_the_big_lie_that_always_follows_mass_shootings_by_white_males/

I've lived in DC-area communities that were twice terrorized by black serial killers: first, the shotgun stalker from NJ who went around shooting people in Mt. Pleasant and Columbia Heights in the early 1990s and then the later spree of killings by Muhammed/Malvo. In both cases the killers were black men assumed and widely characterized as mentally ill and deranged like Holmes in Colorado.

I view this asshole in South Carolina as a racist engaging in political terrorism similar to McVeigh or the Muslim chaplain who shot up the army base. Most would. Having the liberal media and black journalists tell those of us who do not make the assumptions we're told automatically apply to white criminals only makes things worse. You are just feeding the flames as this killer hoped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:....and here's Fox News running the chyron "Attack on Faith"

http://mediamatters.org/video/2015/06/18/foxs-steve-doocy-its-extraordinary-that-charles/204043

That was one segment on their morning opinion show and it was specifically about how do you feel safe in church. Because if you can't feel safe there, than where?

But it wasn't an attack on faith. It was an attack on Black people that took place in a place of faith. It's like calling 9/11 an "Attack on Architecture"

Did you watch the segment? It featured a pastor talking about how you feel safe returning to church after an incident like this. No on said "This is an attack on faith and not a hate crime" It was one segment addressing that this happened in a church and church is the one place everyone should feel safe.

True but as I recall Steve Doocy said something about why are people assuming this is about race when it probably is or could be about religion?

Right, he posed that question before Dylann Roof made any confession about his motives.

It could have been a hate crime against african americans, a hate crime against christians or a hate crime against both. No one knew at that time, could only guess. I really don't see why his posing that question makes him the devil.

I see your point but I think it's a matter of nuance. I interpreted it as him rejecting the possibility of race out of hand. You probably interpreted it as him raising an interesting question -- what if it's only about Christianity? Okay, he's not the devil but it still seemed a clunky statement to me. Really, Steve, you don't think race was a factor? But I warrant that you may have been correct in your interpretation.

And therein lies the problem...

Ha - I wrote a nuanced paragraph acknowledging different points of view. You selected the part that supported your own point of view. I don't think I'm the one with the problem here.

Just FYI :"And therein lies the problem..." is a NP in that thread.

You responded to my post and I completely agree you. I understand that it is going to be interpreted differently. I also think as witnessed in this thread that some (just some) liberals are looking to pin malicious statements on conservatives that just aren't there. There are times when conservatives try to do the same to liberals. I just think this is a terrible time to do it. This is a horrible tragedy and I haven't seen anyone in the media say anything differently. I think some in the media didn't want to jump the gun and make statements before they had all the facts. Which I find smart.

Honestly when I first heard of this happening, the fact that it was in a church I thought someone had a grudge against Christianity. Even when the first photos of Roof emerged I figured it was both racial and religious, still not sure if that isn't the case.

[Anonymous]

That manifesto, whether from Roof or not, is terrifying. Because you know there are more out there, with the same shit on their computer, just waiting for the day their switch gets flipped and they snap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a really good article about the assumption of mental illness which the media automatically applies to white people who commit mass murders, even in the absence of any solid evidence. The label "mentally ill" in this case detracts from the real issue which is racist violence.

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/18/its_not_about_mental_illness_the_big_lie_that_always_follows_mass_shootings_by_white_males/

I've lived in DC-area communities that were twice terrorized by black serial killers: first, the shotgun stalker from NJ who went around shooting people in Mt. Pleasant and Columbia Heights in the early 1990s and then the later spree of killings by Muhammed/Malvo. In both cases the killers were black men assumed and widely characterized as mentally ill and deranged like Holmes in Colorado.

I view this asshole in South Carolina as a racist engaging in political terrorism similar to McVeigh or the Muslim chaplain who shot up the army base. Most would. Having the liberal media and black journalists tell those of us who do not make the assumptions we're told automatically apply to white criminals only makes things worse. You are just feeding the flames as this killer hoped.

What I am saying is that racism is a systemic problem which can create violence like this. It does take a lunatic to actually carry out an act like this but racism is the fuel that starts the fire. We do not know that this man would have killed people if he had not been driven by a racist belief system. Sure, people with personality disorders and mental illness are most vulnerable to actually carrying out these heinous acts but this does not erase the problem of racism which started the fire and fanned the flames for Roof. When you blame mental illness in and of itself, you minimize the problem of racism which must be addressed. This is not the same as a school shooting, for instance, which is a separate problem entirely and must be addressed as such. Roof is a zealot who was inspired by racism and able to carry out this act of racist violence due to whatever mental deficiencies he has but MANY people have those same deficiencies. We cannot blame mental illness alone.

[Anonymous]

Can I just take a moment and laugh at this little dipshit's photo? Obviously he's a horrible, awful human being. But the sight of this puny little POS in a 'Gold's Gym' tank is completely hilarious to me. I feel bad for Gold's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're contradicting yourself. Yes, this mam was racist. However, there have been racists in this country for a long time. These mass shootings are a new phenenom, though. And I think they do point to mental illness and an illness in our modern culture.

I disagree. Such murders have been an irregular but consistent part of our country's culture for generations. We will respond as we always have by seeking explanations, mourning the tragedy, burying the dead, bickering about solutions, and in the end, do not a Goddamned thing except reset the clock that will count down to the next one.

Indeed. Before it was mass shootings, it was four little girls in Birmingham. http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/us/birmingham-charleston-church-attack-comparisons/

Rosewood
Arkansas
This nation has a well documented history of mass killings/lynchings of black people.
This AIN'T NEW!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:....and here's Fox News running the chyron "Attack on Faith"

http://mediamatters.org/video/2015/06/18/foxs-steve-doocy-its-extraordinary-that-charles/204043

That was one segment on their morning opinion show and it was specifically about how do you feel safe in church. Because if you can't feel safe there, than where?

But it wasn't an attack on faith. It was an attack on Black people that took place in a place of faith. It's like calling 9/11 an "Attack on Architecture"

Did you watch the segment? It featured a pastor talking about how you feel safe returning to church after an incident like this. No on said "This is an attack on faith and not a hate crime" It was one segment addressing that this happened in a church and church is the one place everyone should feel safe.

True but as I recall Steve Doocy said something about why are people assuming this is about race when it probably is or could be about religion?

Right, he posed that question before Dylann Roof made any confession about his motives.

It could have been a hate crime against african americans, a hate crime against christians or a hate crime against both. No one knew at that time, could only guess. I really don't see why his posing that question makes him the devil.

I see your point but I think it's a matter of nuance. I interpreted it as him rejecting the possibility of race out of hand. You probably interpreted it as him raising an interesting question -- what if it's only about Christianity? Okay, he's not the devil but it still seemed a clunky statement to me. Really, Steve, you don't think race was a factor? But I warrant that you may have been correct in your interpretation.

And therein lies the problem...

Ha - I wrote a nuanced paragraph acknowledging different points of view. You selected the part that supported your own point of view. I don't think I'm the one with the problem here.

Just FYI :"And therein lies the problem..." is a NP in that thread.

You responded to my post and I completely agree you. I understand that it is going to be interpreted differently. I also think as witnessed in this thread that some (just some) liberals are looking to pin malicious statements on conservatives that just aren't there. There are times when conservatives try to do the same to liberals. I just think this is a terrible time to do it. This is a horrible tragedy and I haven't seen anyone in the media say anything differently. I think some in the media didn't want to jump the gun and make statements before they had all the facts. Which I find smart.

Honestly when I first heard of this happening, the fact that it was in a church I thought someone had a grudge against Christianity. Even when the first photos of Roof emerged I figured it was both racial and religious, still not sure if that isn't the case.

Pp here. Thanks for your comments. I agree with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you're really interested in Dylann Roof's motive and beliefs, then here's a link to his website "The Last Rhodesian" and his manifesto:
http://lastrhodesian.com/data/documents/rtf88.txt

I just want to say again how glad I am that they caught this guy alive. Now I would like to see him sentenced to life without parole so he can spend years living out his mundane life not being the hero he wanted so to be. Yep, Dylann, you're gonna just be another lifer with nothing to look forward to.

This is one reason I oppose the death penalty -- too much drama and too much opportunity to feel special.

[Anonymous]

It seems we have finally found the exception to "there's no such thing as bad publicity."

Anonymous wrote:Can I just take a moment and laugh at this little dipshit's photo? Obviously he's a horrible, awful human being. But the sight of this puny little POS in a 'Gold's Gym' tank is completely hilarious to me. I feel bad for Gold's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think we both agree that Pam Geller provoked Radical Muslims with her Draw Mohammed contest, right? I do remember you being quite clear about that, though you supported her right to speak.

I support black activists right to speak. Don't be surprised though, if it provokes racists.

As I've said over and over again, the only one responsible for the deaths, is the one who pulled the trigger.

It's not 'blame shifting', it's reality. When you speak out, when you are provocative in any way, you attract evil as well as good. Geller understood this and was ready. I wish that the pastor had done the same.

The Draw Mohammed contest was deliberately provocative, and Pam Geller is known to be so. Pinckney was politically active, and sometimes controversial, but not provocative like Geller.

To say that a Wednesday night bible study class at an AME church is as provocative to a white supremacist as a contest to draw Mohammed is wrong. There's no provocation about a bible study class.

You cannot possibly be comparing Gellar to Pinkney can you? Pinkney who dedicated his life to good and helping black people heal and stop killing each other. Isn't that always the criticism here? Black people kill black people and they don't ever say or do anything about it.

And Geller is committed to exposing radical Islam for what it is. Yes, I am comparing them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can anyone point out any media outlets ... or even DCUM posters for that matter ... that are denying this was racially motivated? I see that being thrown around like a straw man - to imply that whites don't acknowledge racism, I guess - but I don't actually see anyone denying this was a hate crime.

Forgive me for not reading 30 pages of this thread ... just the last 5 or 6 pages include numerous assertions that people are somehow denying the racial element here ... though those assertions are usually in posts related to genetic deficiencies and 'crazy ass white boys' so I suppose I should take them with a grain of salt.

The most outrageous attempt to shift blame I have seen was a post on page 6 of this thread that said this:

Anonymous wrote:Survivor reports: He said "I have to do it. You're taking over everything. Raping our women. You have to go."

Sigh. Activism breeds hate.

The only way I can interpret that is that it suggests that black activists provoked Roof.

I think we both agree that Pam Geller provoked Radical Muslims with her Draw Mohammed contest, right? I do remember you being quite clear about that, though you supported her right to speak.

I support black activists right to speak. Don't be surprised though, if it provokes racists.

As I've said over and over again, the only one responsible for the deaths, is the one who pulled the trigger.

It's not 'blame shifting', it's reality. When you speak out, when you are provocative in any way, you attract evil as well as good. Geller understood this and was ready. I wish that the pastor had done the same.

oh my god - you think the pastor should have been ready in case some white guy got bent out of shape over the Freddy Gray incident???!! If you have a daughter and she gets sexually assaulted, I hope you chastise her that she wasn't ready to defend herself against a guy who was mad at some woman who rejected him in the past.

Really??!! Do you actually reread what you write before you post it on DCUM?[/quote

I think the pastor should have been ready because he is speaking out and unfortunately, that provokes crazies. If you are in the public eye, like he was, campaigning next to HRC, etc., it's probably best to be sure you have either bodyguards or are prepared to defend yourself. that is, unfortunately, reality.

My daughter will be packing heat - unless she is unfortunate enough to be in a gun-free zone. In which case, I hope that liberals apologize to her for leaving her essentially defenseless