Reported hazing incident involving Damascus High School JV Football team

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That isn’t enough though to be a deterrent. The coaches and admin need to be disciplined too. Well, the coaches need to be fired.

Charging them as adults and also disciplining/firing coaches might act as deterrent IMO. At least it would hopefully shock the system out of its' complacency. I am sickened by this crime, truly horrendous.

The MCPS System Wide Athletic Director also needs to go. He signed an athletic waiver for a boy who who had disciplinary problems that prompted him being transferred out of Clarksburg HS to Damascus HS. Why would a kid with his record be allowed to play sports let alone be given a special exemption from the COSA rules of sitting out one year?

Because - winning?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There has to be a bright line somewhere for age. Not based on how bad the crime was, how outraged people are, how much media exposure it gets, etc. Bright line. Either these kids are judged responsible like adults or they aren't. If they are, then why can't they vote, drive, serve in the military, smoke, drink, sign a lease, etc.? They have the cognitive maturity to be criminals but not to vote against Judy Docca? That doesn't make any sense.

Are you really that dumb or do you have an angle here?

Minors can be charged as adults for murder, or gang rape, because those are outrageous acts that are unfathomable in every normal person's head pretty much from elementary school. Children are taught not to hurt any living creature, not to mention other humans. It is a taboo that should be internalized by minors well before they even try to figure out how to parallel park or sign a lease. If you are religious, you'd know those rules as commandments, but even if you are not, it's just something that goes without saying.

And yes, I believe, there is a "bright line somewhere for age" for minors committing serious crimes. In certain states, it is 13.

Exactly. We teach toddlers that it's not okay to hit or pinch. We teach children that no one can touch you or your private parts without consent.

Do people really think that a violent assault of holding someone down and shoving a broom up a person's anus doesn't fall into any of the categories above that even the littlest of children know, or that somehow 15 year olds get amnesia about how to reasonably treat other human beings?? This was a horrific crime and deserves to be treated as such by the criminal justice system.

If the defendants were white and treated as juveniles, I imagine that most of us would be discussing white privilege. This is an adult crime and deserves to be treated as such. Letting men off easy for rape perpetuates rape culture.

But that's just the point: fifteen-year-olds are not men. They should not be let off easy, but they are juveniles and we have a juvenile justice system for crimes committed by juveniles.

They impaled people with brooms - that is awful and very much not juvenile behavior. They need serious remediation and juvenile court would just have them getting a pat on the head and a little time in juvi and they’d be out to do worse soon.
Someone should have thought to get these kids help before they raped people. Sounds like this didn’t happen.

Reasons to try juveniles as adults-

Previous juvenile record
Previous attempts at rehabbing the person didn’t work
The intervention needed to help the person would take longer than the years the person would be in the juvenile system


https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/juveniles-youth-adult-criminal-court-32226.html

Sounds like the kids that were charged as adults were already in the system so stop the bleeding heart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s so frustrating to me that this discussion has turned into something racial. Like others, I had assumed the perps were white. I was vocal in saying that they should be charged as adults for this crime. Now that we apparently know that the perps were AA, I still think they should be charged as adults. But I guess I’ll be called racist now. Nobody can make everything about race like the people of DCUM.

I don't think you are racist and also believe the alleged perpetrators should be charged as adults. That is the only way to create a deterrent effect to prevent this from ever happening again. This is the only way for the perpetrators, their parents, the coaches and school admins to be forced to wake up and take notice. Yes, it's a tragedy all around, but no other kid in MCPS should EVER have to endure being brutally raped in their high school. My sympathies are firmly with the victims and their families.

Except if you are a young immigrant girl - then the ‘rape’ is made to go away so as to not ding the empire that CASA de Maryland has created and to keep your other relatives safe. And everyone believes it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s so frustrating to me that this discussion has turned into something racial. Like others, I had assumed the perps were white. I was vocal in saying that they should be charged as adults for this crime. Now that we apparently know that the perps were AA, I still think they should be charged as adults. But I guess I’ll be called racist now. Nobody can make everything about race like the people of DCUM.

I don't think you are racist and also believe the alleged perpetrators should be charged as adults. That is the only way to create a deterrent effect to prevent this from ever happening again. This is the only way for the perpetrators, their parents, the coaches and school admins to be forced to wake up and take notice. Yes, it's a tragedy all around, but no other kid in MCPS should EVER have to endure being brutally raped in their high school. My sympathies are firmly with the victims and their families.

Except if you are a young immigrant girl - then the ‘rape’ is made to go away so as to not ding the empire that CASA de Maryland has created and to keep your other relatives safe. And everyone believes it.

Those were my thoughts exactly! MCPS tried to just get that whole case swept under the rug and pretty much made it go away. MCPS is so screwed up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There has to be a bright line somewhere for age. Not based on how bad the crime was, how outraged people are, how much media exposure it gets, etc. Bright line. Either these kids are judged responsible like adults or they aren't. If they are, then why can't they vote, drive, serve in the military, smoke, drink, sign a lease, etc.? They have the cognitive maturity to be criminals but not to vote against Judy Docca? That doesn't make any sense.

Are you really that dumb or do you have an angle here?

Minors can be charged as adults for murder, or gang rape, because those are outrageous acts that are unfathomable in every normal person's head pretty much from elementary school. Children are taught not to hurt any living creature, not to mention other humans. It is a taboo that should be internalized by minors well before they even try to figure out how to parallel park or sign a lease. If you are religious, you'd know those rules as commandments, but even if you are not, it's just something that goes without saying.

And yes, I believe, there is a "bright line somewhere for age" for minors committing serious crimes. In certain states, it is 13.

Exactly. We teach toddlers that it's not okay to hit or pinch. We teach children that no one can touch you or your private parts without consent.

Do people really think that a violent assault of holding someone down and shoving a broom up a person's anus doesn't fall into any of the categories above that even the littlest of children know, or that somehow 15 year olds get amnesia about how to reasonably treat other human beings?? This was a horrific crime and deserves to be treated as such by the criminal justice system.

If the defendants were white and treated as juveniles, I imagine that most of us would be discussing white privilege. This is an adult crime and deserves to be treated as such. Letting men off easy for rape perpetuates rape culture.

But that's just the point: fifteen-year-olds are not men. They should not be let off easy, but they are juveniles and we have a juvenile justice system for crimes committed by juveniles.

They impaled people with brooms - that is awful and very much not juvenile behavior. They need serious remediation and juvenile court would just have them getting a pat on the head and a little time in juvi and they’d be out to do worse soon.
Someone should have thought to get these kids help before they raped people. Sounds like this didn’t happen.

Reasons to try juveniles as adults-

Previous juvenile record
Previous attempts at rehabbing the person didn’t work
The intervention needed to help the person would take longer than the years the person would be in the juvenile system


https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/juveniles-youth-adult-criminal-court-32226.html

Sounds like the kids that were charged as adults were already in the system so stop the bleeding heart.

Not true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There has to be a bright line somewhere for age. Not based on how bad the crime was, how outraged people are, how much media exposure it gets, etc. Bright line. Either these kids are judged responsible like adults or they aren't. If they are, then why can't they vote, drive, serve in the military, smoke, drink, sign a lease, etc.? They have the cognitive maturity to be criminals but not to vote against Judy Docca? That doesn't make any sense.

Are you really that dumb or do you have an angle here?

Minors can be charged as adults for murder, or gang rape, because those are outrageous acts that are unfathomable in every normal person's head pretty much from elementary school. Children are taught not to hurt any living creature, not to mention other humans. It is a taboo that should be internalized by minors well before they even try to figure out how to parallel park or sign a lease. If you are religious, you'd know those rules as commandments, but even if you are not, it's just something that goes without saying.

And yes, I believe, there is a "bright line somewhere for age" for minors committing serious crimes. In certain states, it is 13.

Exactly. We teach toddlers that it's not okay to hit or pinch. We teach children that no one can touch you or your private parts without consent.

Do people really think that a violent assault of holding someone down and shoving a broom up a person's anus doesn't fall into any of the categories above that even the littlest of children know, or that somehow 15 year olds get amnesia about how to reasonably treat other human beings?? This was a horrific crime and deserves to be treated as such by the criminal justice system.

If the defendants were white and treated as juveniles, I imagine that most of us would be discussing white privilege. This is an adult crime and deserves to be treated as such. Letting men off easy for rape perpetuates rape culture.

But that's just the point: fifteen-year-olds are not men. They should not be let off easy, but they are juveniles and we have a juvenile justice system for crimes committed by juveniles.

And if your son had been raped? What would you be posting now?

It’s sad all around but it’s also sick. These kids were showing signs of dysfunction way before this incident happened, yet no one noticed. Poor parenting combined with obsessed coaches . . . Perfect storm

What were the signs?

You don't get to the point of sodomizing young boys with brooms w/o first showing signs of aberrant behaviors.

Classroom teachers know this . . .

[Anonymous]

Serious question for the PPs (or PP?) saying that these criminals should be dealt with by the juvie system, what if it was a rape of a girl? Imagine that instead of holding down a teenage boy and violently raping him with an object, they did it to a girl. Would you still be saying it's NBD and we should just put them in the juvie system for a few years and then release them into society to live their lives, no lasting effects? Or would you be say in that case they should be treated as adults and given proper punishment?

[Anonymous]

No one is saying it’s NBD!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Serious question for the PPs (or PP?) saying that these criminals should be dealt with by the juvie system, what if it was a rape of a girl? Imagine that instead of holding down a teenage boy and violently raping him with an object, they did it to a girl. Would you still be saying it's NBD and we should just put them in the juvie system for a few years and then release them into society to live their lives, no lasting effects? Or would you be say in that case they should be treated as adults and given proper punishment?

See the post above at 7:05.

Something similar happened last year at a different MCPS high school, in the HS bathroom, during school hours, but the victim was a young, immigrant female.

There was much questioning about what really happened, and if the two rapists should have been charged as adults. In the end, the adult male rapists were simply cleared and the case just kind of went away. All the while it was in the media, it was treated as NBD by the media. Parents from the HS were denied the chance to ask questions, etc.

MCPS administration tries very hard to make these incidents seem like NBD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Serious question for the PPs (or PP?) saying that these criminals should be dealt with by the juvie system, what if it was a rape of a girl? Imagine that instead of holding down a teenage boy and violently raping him with an object, they did it to a girl. Would you still be saying it's NBD and we should just put them in the juvie system for a few years and then release them into society to live their lives, no lasting effects? Or would you be say in that case they should be treated as adults and given proper punishment?

Unfortunately, if the victim is a girl, there if often much discussion about whether or not it was consensual. Lots of discussion about whether the girl 'asked for it' or 'wanted it'.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question for the PPs (or PP?) saying that these criminals should be dealt with by the juvie system, what if it was a rape of a girl? Imagine that instead of holding down a teenage boy and violently raping him with an object, they did it to a girl. Would you still be saying it's NBD and we should just put them in the juvie system for a few years and then release them into society to live their lives, no lasting effects? Or would you be say in that case they should be treated as adults and given proper punishment?

See the post above at 7:05.

Something similar happened last year at a different MCPS high school, in the HS bathroom, during school hours, but the victim was a young, immigrant female.

There was much questioning about what really happened, and if the two rapists should have been charged as adults. In the end, the adult male rapists were simply cleared and the case just kind of went away. All the while it was in the media, it was treated as NBD by the media. Parents from the HS were denied the chance to ask questions, etc.

MCPS administration tries very hard to make these incidents seem like NBD.

That was a huge story and got national attention. It certainly wasn't treated as no big deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question for the PPs (or PP?) saying that these criminals should be dealt with by the juvie system, what if it was a rape of a girl? Imagine that instead of holding down a teenage boy and violently raping him with an object, they did it to a girl. Would you still be saying it's NBD and we should just put them in the juvie system for a few years and then release them into society to live their lives, no lasting effects? Or would you be say in that case they should be treated as adults and given proper punishment?

See the post above at 7:05.

Something similar happened last year at a different MCPS high school, in the HS bathroom, during school hours, but the victim was a young, immigrant female.

There was much questioning about what really happened, and if the two rapists should have been charged as adults. In the end, the adult male rapists were simply cleared and the case just kind of went away. All the while it was in the media, it was treated as NBD by the media. Parents from the HS were denied the chance to ask questions, etc.

MCPS administration tries very hard to make these incidents seem like NBD.

That was a huge story and got national attention. It certainly wasn't treated as no big deal.

Yup, it was all over the news.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question for the PPs (or PP?) saying that these criminals should be dealt with by the juvie system, what if it was a rape of a girl? Imagine that instead of holding down a teenage boy and violently raping him with an object, they did it to a girl. Would you still be saying it's NBD and we should just put them in the juvie system for a few years and then release them into society to live their lives, no lasting effects? Or would you be say in that case they should be treated as adults and given proper punishment?

See the post above at 7:05.

Something similar happened last year at a different MCPS high school, in the HS bathroom, during school hours, but the victim was a young, immigrant female.

There was much questioning about what really happened, and if the two rapists should have been charged as adults. In the end, the adult male rapists were simply cleared and the case just kind of went away. All the while it was in the media, it was treated as NBD by the media. Parents from the HS were denied the chance to ask questions, etc.

MCPS administration tries very hard to make these incidents seem like NBD.

That was a huge story and got national attention. It certainly wasn't treated as no big deal.

It was treated as NBD by MCPS. Did you attend any of the meetings? Jack Smith refused to discuss it with the parents at the HS. MCPS and Derek Smith really tried to downplay the whole thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one is saying it’s NBD!

Putting them in the juvie system where they’re released after a few years with nothing permanent on their records sounds like NBD to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the football websites, it looks like he is a 9th grader. And 6’ 229 lbs.

Probably a 15yr old 9th grader at a 3rd grade reading level. Half these people who commit these stupid acts that even an 8yr old knows is wrong are actual real like half wits.

However charging a 15yr old as an adult for a crime that will effectively ruin their entire lives. This wont be a burglary charge. This is a sex crime and will severely limit their job opportunities. You charge these boys as adults and guess what will happen?? That ugly adult prison system we have will rip those boys to shreads and they will be in and out of that system for life. You people just don't how incredibly destructive these charges are on all of society. We are spectacularly dum in this country and always so confused why we have such high crime. Hmmm put a young man in a brutal prison for a few years and release him to society. Yea, that works well.

Or you put a giant, violent, man sized rapist in juvenile with a bunch of 13 year old shoplifters and vandals. That young man is a risk to all of the kids in detention.