Board of Veterans Appeals (Attorney Advisor)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a trademark attorney at the USPTO. For the poster who wrote an article on trademark law, this could have actually worked against you. The USPTO does not care about experience, and generally hires 3L's with no trademark experience. You have to tailor your cover letter towards the production element of the job. They want to know that you work quickly, can take criticism well (your work is reviewed by a mentor for two years), and that you are okay with a repetitive job.

Yes, morale is very low here. It's an exhausting job. Not only is the production egregious, but everything you do is reviewed, and a small or large issue counts as an "error" against you - get enough errors and you will not be satisfactory. You are only as good as your last quarter at the PTO, which leads to massive burnout. People are fired there. Even people with extenuating family circumstances.

Unlike the BVA, I would still recommend it to people who have no other options. There is no upward mobility at the PTO and most are looking for jobs on the side.

One PP mentioned how the PTO will fare now that more offices are adopting telework flexibility. This is a great point. The PTO could get away with the production because of the perk of telework. However, this is no longer unique to the PTO. To be able to spend a day not worrying about meeting a quota sounds like a dream to me!

Unlike the BVA, I wouldn't call the PTO toxic or vengeful. it's just not a place that most people will want to stay long term.

At the PTO, if you can’t meet your quota during your work hours, are you allowed to make up your cases in your personal time? If so, do people get penalized for using personal time to meet production?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a trademark attorney at the USPTO. For the poster who wrote an article on trademark law, this could have actually worked against you. The USPTO does not care about experience, and generally hires 3L's with no trademark experience. You have to tailor your cover letter towards the production element of the job. They want to know that you work quickly, can take criticism well (your work is reviewed by a mentor for two years), and that you are okay with a repetitive job.

Yes, morale is very low here. It's an exhausting job. Not only is the production egregious, but everything you do is reviewed, and a small or large issue counts as an "error" against you - get enough errors and you will not be satisfactory. You are only as good as your last quarter at the PTO, which leads to massive burnout. People are fired there. Even people with extenuating family circumstances.

Unlike the BVA, I would still recommend it to people who have no other options. There is no upward mobility at the PTO and most are looking for jobs on the side.

One PP mentioned how the PTO will fare now that more offices are adopting telework flexibility. This is a great point. The PTO could get away with the production because of the perk of telework. However, this is no longer unique to the PTO. To be able to spend a day not worrying about meeting a quota sounds like a dream to me!

Unlike the BVA, I wouldn't call the PTO toxic or vengeful. it's just not a place that most people will want to stay long term.

At the PTO, if you can’t meet your quota during your work hours, are you allowed to make up your cases in your personal time? If so, do people get penalized for using personal time to meet production?

The rule at BVA is that attorneys can't work more than 40 hours a week. But, in practice, there's an unofficial don't ask don't tell policy in effect when in comes to work hours. Most attorneys at BVA work around 50 hours a week, but those with difficult judges tend to work in excess of 60 hours a week. You can work as many hours you want/need to, so long as you don't expressly tell your manager that you are working unpaid overtime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a trademark attorney at the USPTO. For the poster who wrote an article on trademark law, this could have actually worked against you. The USPTO does not care about experience, and generally hires 3L's with no trademark experience. You have to tailor your cover letter towards the production element of the job. They want to know that you work quickly, can take criticism well (your work is reviewed by a mentor for two years), and that you are okay with a repetitive job.

Yes, morale is very low here. It's an exhausting job. Not only is the production egregious, but everything you do is reviewed, and a small or large issue counts as an "error" against you - get enough errors and you will not be satisfactory. You are only as good as your last quarter at the PTO, which leads to massive burnout. People are fired there. Even people with extenuating family circumstances.

Unlike the BVA, I would still recommend it to people who have no other options. There is no upward mobility at the PTO and most are looking for jobs on the side.

One PP mentioned how the PTO will fare now that more offices are adopting telework flexibility. This is a great point. The PTO could get away with the production because of the perk of telework. However, this is no longer unique to the PTO. To be able to spend a day not worrying about meeting a quota sounds like a dream to me!

Unlike the BVA, I wouldn't call the PTO toxic or vengeful. it's just not a place that most people will want to stay long term.

how do I Taylor towards production if I haven’t had a quota type job? I’ve had deadlines before, at work, on law review and I be always made them. Should I say in a cover letter I’m prepared to work as long as required to make quota ? I really have no life so I can do this. However I would like something less stressful but I honestly don’t have many options .

No - I wouldn’t say that because that would imply you would be working unauthorized overtime, this is a bargaining unit position, so you cannot work unpaid overtime. Say you will develop efficiencies and be organized. Say you will not be perfectionistic and realize the decisions need to be made because a veteran is waiting.

[Anonymous]

"ABC -- 'Always Be Churning!' You know what the 1st prize for exceeding the BVA quota is? A cash performance bonus! What's 2nd prize for meeting it? A cheap made-in-China ballpoint pen with the VA logo on it. 3rd prize for coming up short by one decision is You're FIRED!"

[Anonymous]

Though they decreased quota by .25 per week, 3 signed cases a week is still tough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Though they decreased quota by .25 per week, 3 signed cases a week is still tough.

I agree. Completing three draft decisions a week is tough. Getting them signed/approved by the end of the week can be even more difficult, as some judges are very picky and detailed and will regularly send drafts back for revision and/or full rewrites.

[Anonymous]

question: how does time off/leave affect your quotas at these "production based" jobs? For example, If I take a sick day or an afternoon off, do I still have to meet the quota, say three signed decisions that day, or does it reduce my monthly quota by 5%, or how does that work? Or if I take three days off or a week off over summer, does that reduce my quota those days or do you have to churn it out in advance? I'm just wondering how you could possibly have a life or take vacations if you're constantly trying to meet a quota, if it's much like a yearly billable requirement

[Anonymous]

Your quota is adjusted for the year with various proration allowances. Sick and reg. leave qualify. It all reduces your total min. quota #. 40 hours a week for 52 weeks is 2080 hours. you have to do____ decisions. So whatever hours you are out will reduce the total decisions.

It is not like a billable hour req. at a firm where you have to make it up.

[Anonymous]

BVA has a tracker that keeps track of your production. Sometimes (very rare though) you’ll get prorations for IT issues, Board wide trainings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Though they decreased quota by .25 per week, 3 signed cases a week is still tough.

Don't forget that you can't even begin drafting a decision until you've read the whole file first. It's not unusual for files to be 1000+ pages, especially as you get more experienced. Fun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Though they decreased quota by .25 per week, 3 signed cases a week is still tough.

Don't forget that you can't even begin drafting a decision until you've read the whole file first. It's not unusual for files to be 1000+ pages, especially as you get more experienced. Fun.

That’s right. Don’t forget to add that BVA attorneys must review the entire 1000+ page file AND draft a decision within 10 hours. Rinse and repeat three times per week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Though they decreased quota by .25 per week, 3 signed cases a week is still tough.

Don't forget that you can't even begin drafting a decision until you've read the whole file first. It's not unusual for files to be 1000+ pages, especially as you get more experienced. Fun.

That’s right. Don’t forget to add that BVA attorneys must review the entire 1000+ page file AND draft a decision within 10 hours. Rinse and repeat three times per week.

And let’s not forget that sometimes you’ll find some admin stuff in some random document (after spending hours on case review) just to find out that you need to send to admin and can’t proceed to draft your decision

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Though they decreased quota by .25 per week, 3 signed cases a week is still tough.

Don't forget that you can't even begin drafting a decision until you've read the whole file first. It's not unusual for files to be 1000+ pages, especially as you get more experienced. Fun.

That’s right. Don’t forget to add that BVA attorneys must review the entire 1000+ page file AND draft a decision within 10 hours. Rinse and repeat three times per week.

And let’s not forget that sometimes you’ll find some admin stuff in some random document (after spending hours on case review) just to find out that you need to send to admin and can’t proceed to draft your decision

But, you still have to get three drafts signed each week regardless of any administrative or technical difficulties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Though they decreased quota by .25 per week, 3 signed cases a week is still tough.

Don't forget that you can't even begin drafting a decision until you've read the whole file first. It's not unusual for files to be 1000+ pages, especially as you get more experienced. Fun.

That’s right. Don’t forget to add that BVA attorneys must review the entire 1000+ page file AND draft a decision within 10 hours. Rinse and repeat three times per week.

And let’s not forget that sometimes you’ll find some admin stuff in some random document (after spending hours on case review) just to find out that you need to send to admin and can’t proceed to draft your decision

But, you still have to get three drafts signed each week regardless of any administrative or technical difficulties.

Don't forget to fill out the All Employee Survey. I'm sure the responses will be taken seriously and meaningful change will happen. lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Though they decreased quota by .25 per week, 3 signed cases a week is still tough.

Don't forget that you can't even begin drafting a decision until you've read the whole file first. It's not unusual for files to be 1000+ pages, especially as you get more experienced. Fun.

That’s right. Don’t forget to add that BVA attorneys must review the entire 1000+ page file AND draft a decision within 10 hours. Rinse and repeat three times per week.

And let’s not forget that sometimes you’ll find some admin stuff in some random document (after spending hours on case review) just to find out that you need to send to admin and can’t proceed to draft your decision

But, you still have to get three drafts signed each week regardless of any administrative or technical difficulties.

Don't forget to fill out the All Employee Survey. I'm sure the responses will be taken seriously and meaningful change will happen. lol.

Well, quota is a non negotiable matter…lol.