Board of Veterans Appeals (Attorney Advisor)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a trademark attorney at the USPTO. For the poster who wrote an article on trademark law, this could have actually worked against you. The USPTO does not care about experience, and generally hires 3L's with no trademark experience. You have to tailor your cover letter towards the production element of the job. They want to know that you work quickly, can take criticism well (your work is reviewed by a mentor for two years), and that you are okay with a repetitive job.

Yes, morale is very low here. It's an exhausting job. Not only is the production egregious, but everything you do is reviewed, and a small or large issue counts as an "error" against you - get enough errors and you will not be satisfactory. You are only as good as your last quarter at the PTO, which leads to massive burnout. People are fired there. Even people with extenuating family circumstances.

Unlike the BVA, I would still recommend it to people who have no other options. There is no upward mobility at the PTO and most are looking for jobs on the side.

One PP mentioned how the PTO will fare now that more offices are adopting telework flexibility. This is a great point. The PTO could get away with the production because of the perk of telework. However, this is no longer unique to the PTO. To be able to spend a day not worrying about meeting a quota sounds like a dream to me!

Unlike the BVA, I wouldn't call the PTO toxic or vengeful. it's just not a place that most people will want to stay long term.

how do I Taylor towards production if I haven’t had a quota type job? I’ve had deadlines before, at work, on law review and I be always made them. Should I say in a cover letter I’m prepared to work as long as required to make quota ? I really have no life so I can do this. However I would like something less stressful but I honestly don’t have many options .

If you are referring to the PTO hiring process, you just need to demonstrate that you have an interest in trademark law. You submit your application to USA jobs. If you meet the basic requirements, you get referred to selecting official. Resumes/cover letters are reviewed and then if you qualify, they send you a writing sample. If they like your sample, they give you an interview during which they will grill you with questions on meeting quota. If you haven’t had jobs based on quota, you should talk about how you met your demanding deadlines, how you prioritize your time so you don’t miss your deadlines.

I did, I mentioned my published law review note in my cover letter, which is on a Trademark issue. I got referred, but didn't get an interview. Someone else here said that mentioning it probably hurt me as they only care about making production. DO you think I should mention it has been cited in many law review articles , a treatise, a casebook, etc? Or is that too douchey? I don't want to do it, but if it would help me, then I will do it

I think the fact that you got referred means your cover letter was good already. Did you get a KSA writing sample? If you didn’t get an interview, it might be the fact that you need to beef up your KSA sample.

This was about 4 years ago, so I can't really remember. I think I typed up my own KSAs. I had emailed someone who had worked there before and he told me things to put in it, I think. Or maybe it was about a potential interview. I can't really recall because it was a few years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a trademark attorney at the USPTO. For the poster who wrote an article on trademark law, this could have actually worked against you. The USPTO does not care about experience, and generally hires 3L's with no trademark experience. You have to tailor your cover letter towards the production element of the job. They want to know that you work quickly, can take criticism well (your work is reviewed by a mentor for two years), and that you are okay with a repetitive job.

Yes, morale is very low here. It's an exhausting job. Not only is the production egregious, but everything you do is reviewed, and a small or large issue counts as an "error" against you - get enough errors and you will not be satisfactory. You are only as good as your last quarter at the PTO, which leads to massive burnout. People are fired there. Even people with extenuating family circumstances.

Unlike the BVA, I would still recommend it to people who have no other options. There is no upward mobility at the PTO and most are looking for jobs on the side.

One PP mentioned how the PTO will fare now that more offices are adopting telework flexibility. This is a great point. The PTO could get away with the production because of the perk of telework. However, this is no longer unique to the PTO. To be able to spend a day not worrying about meeting a quota sounds like a dream to me!

Unlike the BVA, I wouldn't call the PTO toxic or vengeful. it's just not a place that most people will want to stay long term.

how do I Taylor towards production if I haven’t had a quota type job? I’ve had deadlines before, at work, on law review and I be always made them. Should I say in a cover letter I’m prepared to work as long as required to make quota ? I really have no life so I can do this. However I would like something less stressful but I honestly don’t have many options .

If you are referring to the PTO hiring process, you just need to demonstrate that you have an interest in trademark law. You submit your application to USA jobs. If you meet the basic requirements, you get referred to selecting official. Resumes/cover letters are reviewed and then if you qualify, they send you a writing sample. If they like your sample, they give you an interview during which they will grill you with questions on meeting quota. If you haven’t had jobs based on quota, you should talk about how you met your demanding deadlines, how you prioritize your time so you don’t miss your deadlines.

I did, I mentioned my published law review note in my cover letter, which is on a Trademark issue. I got referred, but didn't get an interview. Someone else here said that mentioning it probably hurt me as they only care about making production. DO you think I should mention it has been cited in many law review articles , a treatise, a casebook, etc? Or is that too douchey? I don't want to do it, but if it would help me, then I will do it

I think the fact that you got referred means your cover letter was good already. Did you get a KSA writing sample? If you didn’t get an interview, it might be the fact that you need to beef up your KSA sample.

This was about 4 years ago, so I can't really remember. I think I typed up my own KSAs. I had emailed someone who had worked there before and he told me things to put in it, I think. Or maybe it was about a potential interview. I can't really recall because it was a few years ago.

I’ve heard that they changed the process a bit over the past couple of years. (Eg, they used to have multiple rounds of interviews. Recently they just had 1 round, but things might have changed again with the pandemic.) if you really are passionate about pursuing a PTO opportunity, work on your KSA and be as detailed as possible. Be specific in your KSA about how you met deadlines at your job. Don’t just say “I was able to meet deadlines every week” . Be specific. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a trademark attorney at the USPTO. For the poster who wrote an article on trademark law, this could have actually worked against you. The USPTO does not care about experience, and generally hires 3L's with no trademark experience. You have to tailor your cover letter towards the production element of the job. They want to know that you work quickly, can take criticism well (your work is reviewed by a mentor for two years), and that you are okay with a repetitive job.

Yes, morale is very low here. It's an exhausting job. Not only is the production egregious, but everything you do is reviewed, and a small or large issue counts as an "error" against you - get enough errors and you will not be satisfactory. You are only as good as your last quarter at the PTO, which leads to massive burnout. People are fired there. Even people with extenuating family circumstances.

Unlike the BVA, I would still recommend it to people who have no other options. There is no upward mobility at the PTO and most are looking for jobs on the side.

One PP mentioned how the PTO will fare now that more offices are adopting telework flexibility. This is a great point. The PTO could get away with the production because of the perk of telework. However, this is no longer unique to the PTO. To be able to spend a day not worrying about meeting a quota sounds like a dream to me!

Unlike the BVA, I wouldn't call the PTO toxic or vengeful. it's just not a place that most people will want to stay long term.

how do I Taylor towards production if I haven’t had a quota type job? I’ve had deadlines before, at work, on law review and I be always made them. Should I say in a cover letter I’m prepared to work as long as required to make quota ? I really have no life so I can do this. However I would like something less stressful but I honestly don’t have many options .

If you are referring to the PTO hiring process, you just need to demonstrate that you have an interest in trademark law. You submit your application to USA jobs. If you meet the basic requirements, you get referred to selecting official. Resumes/cover letters are reviewed and then if you qualify, they send you a writing sample. If they like your sample, they give you an interview during which they will grill you with questions on meeting quota. If you haven’t had jobs based on quota, you should talk about how you met your demanding deadlines, how you prioritize your time so you don’t miss your deadlines.

I did, I mentioned my published law review note in my cover letter, which is on a Trademark issue. I got referred, but didn't get an interview. Someone else here said that mentioning it probably hurt me as they only care about making production. DO you think I should mention it has been cited in many law review articles , a treatise, a casebook, etc? Or is that too douchey? I don't want to do it, but if it would help me, then I will do it

I think the fact that you got referred means your cover letter was good already. Did you get a KSA writing sample? If you didn’t get an interview, it might be the fact that you need to beef up your KSA sample.

This was about 4 years ago, so I can't really remember. I think I typed up my own KSAs. I had emailed someone who had worked there before and he told me things to put in it, I think. Or maybe it was about a potential interview. I can't really recall because it was a few years ago.

I’ve heard that they changed the process a bit over the past couple of years. (Eg, they used to have multiple rounds of interviews. Recently they just had 1 round, but things might have changed again with the pandemic.) if you really are passionate about pursuing a PTO opportunity, work on your KSA and be as detailed as possible. Be specific in your KSA about how you met deadlines at your job. Don’t just say “I was able to meet deadlines every week” . Be specific. Good luck!

What if I haven't had many deadlines? HOw much can I spin it? I had a few deadlines my old job. Would make them, but it wasn't a routine thing. THe only deadlines I had were on law review, and I always made those, and got glowing praise from the author of the article, but It woudl be douchey to list that (they mentioned me by name in their * footnote). So what can I do if it's not actually the case that I have met production because I've never had a job like that? If they are hiring entry level straight out of law school, what exactly are those people writing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a trademark attorney at the USPTO. For the poster who wrote an article on trademark law, this could have actually worked against you. The USPTO does not care about experience, and generally hires 3L's with no trademark experience. You have to tailor your cover letter towards the production element of the job. They want to know that you work quickly, can take criticism well (your work is reviewed by a mentor for two years), and that you are okay with a repetitive job.

Yes, morale is very low here. It's an exhausting job. Not only is the production egregious, but everything you do is reviewed, and a small or large issue counts as an "error" against you - get enough errors and you will not be satisfactory. You are only as good as your last quarter at the PTO, which leads to massive burnout. People are fired there. Even people with extenuating family circumstances.

Unlike the BVA, I would still recommend it to people who have no other options. There is no upward mobility at the PTO and most are looking for jobs on the side.

One PP mentioned how the PTO will fare now that more offices are adopting telework flexibility. This is a great point. The PTO could get away with the production because of the perk of telework. However, this is no longer unique to the PTO. To be able to spend a day not worrying about meeting a quota sounds like a dream to me!

Unlike the BVA, I wouldn't call the PTO toxic or vengeful. it's just not a place that most people will want to stay long term.

how do I Taylor towards production if I haven’t had a quota type job? I’ve had deadlines before, at work, on law review and I be always made them. Should I say in a cover letter I’m prepared to work as long as required to make quota ? I really have no life so I can do this. However I would like something less stressful but I honestly don’t have many options .

If you are referring to the PTO hiring process, you just need to demonstrate that you have an interest in trademark law. You submit your application to USA jobs. If you meet the basic requirements, you get referred to selecting official. Resumes/cover letters are reviewed and then if you qualify, they send you a writing sample. If they like your sample, they give you an interview during which they will grill you with questions on meeting quota. If you haven’t had jobs based on quota, you should talk about how you met your demanding deadlines, how you prioritize your time so you don’t miss your deadlines.

I did, I mentioned my published law review note in my cover letter, which is on a Trademark issue. I got referred, but didn't get an interview. Someone else here said that mentioning it probably hurt me as they only care about making production. DO you think I should mention it has been cited in many law review articles , a treatise, a casebook, etc? Or is that too douchey? I don't want to do it, but if it would help me, then I will do it

I think the fact that you got referred means your cover letter was good already. Did you get a KSA writing sample? If you didn’t get an interview, it might be the fact that you need to beef up your KSA sample.

This was about 4 years ago, so I can't really remember. I think I typed up my own KSAs. I had emailed someone who had worked there before and he told me things to put in it, I think. Or maybe it was about a potential interview. I can't really recall because it was a few years ago.

I’ve heard that they changed the process a bit over the past couple of years. (Eg, they used to have multiple rounds of interviews. Recently they just had 1 round, but things might have changed again with the pandemic.) if you really are passionate about pursuing a PTO opportunity, work on your KSA and be as detailed as possible. Be specific in your KSA about how you met deadlines at your job. Don’t just say “I was able to meet deadlines every week” . Be specific. Good luck!

What if I haven't had many deadlines? HOw much can I spin it? I had a few deadlines my old job. Would make them, but it wasn't a routine thing. THe only deadlines I had were on law review, and I always made those, and got glowing praise from the author of the article, but It woudl be douchey to list that (they mentioned me by name in their * footnote). So what can I do if it's not actually the case that I have met production because I've never had a job like that? If they are hiring entry level straight out of law school, what exactly are those people writing?

If you haven’t had jobs based on meeting quota routinely, you should focus on your law review work because you are constantly editing/writing everyday. What the PTO is looking for is that you can do a huge volume of work and meet tight deadlines (which is what law review is]. And then perhaps talk about the times at your job when you were under a time crunch to do work (even though it’s not routine deadlines, it will still weigh in your favor]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a trademark attorney at the USPTO. For the poster who wrote an article on trademark law, this could have actually worked against you. The USPTO does not care about experience, and generally hires 3L's with no trademark experience. You have to tailor your cover letter towards the production element of the job. They want to know that you work quickly, can take criticism well (your work is reviewed by a mentor for two years), and that you are okay with a repetitive job.

Yes, morale is very low here. It's an exhausting job. Not only is the production egregious, but everything you do is reviewed, and a small or large issue counts as an "error" against you - get enough errors and you will not be satisfactory. You are only as good as your last quarter at the PTO, which leads to massive burnout. People are fired there. Even people with extenuating family circumstances.

Unlike the BVA, I would still recommend it to people who have no other options. There is no upward mobility at the PTO and most are looking for jobs on the side.

One PP mentioned how the PTO will fare now that more offices are adopting telework flexibility. This is a great point. The PTO could get away with the production because of the perk of telework. However, this is no longer unique to the PTO. To be able to spend a day not worrying about meeting a quota sounds like a dream to me!

Unlike the BVA, I wouldn't call the PTO toxic or vengeful. it's just not a place that most people will want to stay long term.

how do I Taylor towards production if I haven’t had a quota type job? I’ve had deadlines before, at work, on law review and I be always made them. Should I say in a cover letter I’m prepared to work as long as required to make quota ? I really have no life so I can do this. However I would like something less stressful but I honestly don’t have many options .

If you are referring to the PTO hiring process, you just need to demonstrate that you have an interest in trademark law. You submit your application to USA jobs. If you meet the basic requirements, you get referred to selecting official. Resumes/cover letters are reviewed and then if you qualify, they send you a writing sample. If they like your sample, they give you an interview during which they will grill you with questions on meeting quota. If you haven’t had jobs based on quota, you should talk about how you met your demanding deadlines, how you prioritize your time so you don’t miss your deadlines.

I did, I mentioned my published law review note in my cover letter, which is on a Trademark issue. I got referred, but didn't get an interview. Someone else here said that mentioning it probably hurt me as they only care about making production. DO you think I should mention it has been cited in many law review articles , a treatise, a casebook, etc? Or is that too douchey? I don't want to do it, but if it would help me, then I will do it

I think the fact that you got referred means your cover letter was good already. Did you get a KSA writing sample? If you didn’t get an interview, it might be the fact that you need to beef up your KSA sample.

This was about 4 years ago, so I can't really remember. I think I typed up my own KSAs. I had emailed someone who had worked there before and he told me things to put in it, I think. Or maybe it was about a potential interview. I can't really recall because it was a few years ago.

I’ve heard that they changed the process a bit over the past couple of years. (Eg, they used to have multiple rounds of interviews. Recently they just had 1 round, but things might have changed again with the pandemic.) if you really are passionate about pursuing a PTO opportunity, work on your KSA and be as detailed as possible. Be specific in your KSA about how you met deadlines at your job. Don’t just say “I was able to meet deadlines every week” . Be specific. Good luck!

What if I haven't had many deadlines? HOw much can I spin it? I had a few deadlines my old job. Would make them, but it wasn't a routine thing. THe only deadlines I had were on law review, and I always made those, and got glowing praise from the author of the article, but It woudl be douchey to list that (they mentioned me by name in their * footnote). So what can I do if it's not actually the case that I have met production because I've never had a job like that? If they are hiring entry level straight out of law school, what exactly are those people writing?

If you haven’t had jobs based on meeting quota routinely, you should focus on your law review work because you are constantly editing/writing everyday. What the PTO is looking for is that you can do a huge volume of work and meet tight deadlines (which is what law review is]. And then perhaps talk about the times at your job when you were under a time crunch to do work (even though it’s not routine deadlines, it will still weigh in your favor]

Thanks. That's not entirely accurate about law review. When you are a staff member you'd get weekly assignments with deadlines, but they were often just photocopying from books or cite checking. They did have deadlines. When I became an articles editor, i was very busy when I had an assignment, but you don't always have an assignment. I think I had maybe 2 articles to edit per semester, and then the rest of the time you called professors to make offers, and some times you had nothing to do. However, the combination of that, with doing well in law school and I also had a part time job, would show I can handle pressures/time well. But honestly, that has never helped me get a job before.

[Anonymous]

Update: I actually won an award from my law review, at the time it was kind of a joke, but they would put your name on a plaque on the wall, which was named after the first recipient. I was the second recipient. It was an award for the most dedicated editor. I did a search for the name of it and I've noticed lots of grads from my law school list it even on their lawfirm profiles. I never listed it because I couldn't really prove it existed or that I won it other than a photo I have of my name on a plaque on the wall. I suppose i can mention that, but it's really just an internal law review award, not a school award, and isn't listed on my transcript like my other achievements are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Update: I actually won an award from my law review, at the time it was kind of a joke, but they would put your name on a plaque on the wall, which was named after the first recipient. I was the second recipient. It was an award for the most dedicated editor. I did a search for the name of it and I've noticed lots of grads from my law school list it even on their lawfirm profiles. I never listed it because I couldn't really prove it existed or that I won it other than a photo I have of my name on a plaque on the wall. I suppose i can mention that, but it's really just an internal law review award, not a school award, and isn't listed on my transcript like my other achievements are.

Definitely use anything to your advantage (such as your award) during the hiring process! It makes you stand out, so don’t discount the award.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Update: I actually won an award from my law review, at the time it was kind of a joke, but they would put your name on a plaque on the wall, which was named after the first recipient. I was the second recipient. It was an award for the most dedicated editor. I did a search for the name of it and I've noticed lots of grads from my law school list it even on their lawfirm profiles. I never listed it because I couldn't really prove it existed or that I won it other than a photo I have of my name on a plaque on the wall. I suppose i can mention that, but it's really just an internal law review award, not a school award, and isn't listed on my transcript like my other achievements are.

Definitely use anything to your advantage (such as your award) during the hiring process! It makes you stand out, so don’t discount the award.

Thanks! I was just worried I wouldn't be able to prove I actually had won it.

[Anonymous]

I’m the PP that works at PTO. Yes, you can definitely stretch anything in a past job about moving quickly and efficiently to meet deadlines. Doesn’t totally matter the context - just make a connection of showing you work quickly etc. they want to make sure they also aren’t hiring a deep thinker that overthinks. A genius type wouldn’t be a good fit either because you have to be able to make decisions quickly and just move on

[Anonymous]

Literally no one cares about your plaque/award in the real world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Literally no one cares about your plaque/award in the real world.

Agree.

Nooneeeeee

[Anonymous]

Strange that the atty position was removed from usajobs. The last time I checked they were accepting applications until September 30 2021

[Anonymous]

Pto is way better than bva because pto has more outside career options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Literally no one cares about your plaque/award in the real world.

It's true that no one cares but government hiring systems care when determining if you qualify for a job interview.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a trademark attorney at the USPTO. For the poster who wrote an article on trademark law, this could have actually worked against you. The USPTO does not care about experience, and generally hires 3L's with no trademark experience. You have to tailor your cover letter towards the production element of the job. They want to know that you work quickly, can take criticism well (your work is reviewed by a mentor for two years), and that you are okay with a repetitive job.

Yes, morale is very low here. It's an exhausting job. Not only is the production egregious, but everything you do is reviewed, and a small or large issue counts as an "error" against you - get enough errors and you will not be satisfactory. You are only as good as your last quarter at the PTO, which leads to massive burnout. People are fired there. Even people with extenuating family circumstances.

Unlike the BVA, I would still recommend it to people who have no other options. There is no upward mobility at the PTO and most are looking for jobs on the side.

One PP mentioned how the PTO will fare now that more offices are adopting telework flexibility. This is a great point. The PTO could get away with the production because of the perk of telework. However, this is no longer unique to the PTO. To be able to spend a day not worrying about meeting a quota sounds like a dream to me!

At the PTO, if you can’t meet your quota during your work hours, are you allowed to make up your cases in your personal time? If so, do people get penalized for using personal time to meet production?

Unlike the BVA, I wouldn't call the PTO toxic or vengeful. it's just not a place that most people will want to stay long term.