Child killed by Neighborhood Watch captain while walking home

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Police confirm that Martin attacked and was bashing Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk before Martin was shot in self defense

It had to be a short fight. the girlfriend reports and phone records show that he was on the phone with her 5 minutes for the police arrived. it is difficult to be in a phone conversation and bashing someone's head into the ground. When the police arrived, Trayvon was already dead so this attack had to be extremely brief. It is also quite possible that given he was being followed and harassed by Zimmerman that any aggression by Trayvon was self-defense.

Also I couldn't find in that article where police confirmed that martin was bashing Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Police confirm that Martin attacked and was bashing Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk before Martin was shot in self defense

It had to be a short fight. the girlfriend reports and phone records show that he was on the phone with her 5 minutes for the police arrived. it is difficult to be in a phone conversation and bashing someone's head into the ground. When the police arrived, Trayvon was already dead so this attack had to be extremely brief. It is also quite possible that given he was being followed and harassed by Zimmerman that any aggression by Trayvon was self-defense.

Also I couldn't find in that article where police confirmed that martin was bashing Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk.

That's because the police can't confirm it. This is only George Zimmerman's version of events. A version of events that makes no logical sense whatsoever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Police confirm that Martin attacked and was bashing Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk before Martin was shot in self defense

It had to be a short fight. the girlfriend reports and phone records show that he was on the phone with her 5 minutes for the police arrived. it is difficult to be in a phone conversation and bashing someone's head into the ground. When the police arrived, Trayvon was already dead so this attack had to be extremely brief. It is also quite possible that given he was being followed and harassed by Zimmerman that any aggression by Trayvon was self-defense.

Also I couldn't find in that article where police confirmed that martin was bashing Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk.

If Trayvon was so aggressive that Z felt justified to shoot him, wouldn't Trayvon likely hit him unconscious by hitting his head repeatedly against the sidewalk...so I'm still unsure how Z got under him and didn't just flick him off, he was a tiny teen compared to Z. And how was Z able to get to his gun when he was in fact repeatedly hit against the sidewalk? This whole story doesn't make sense!!

[Anonymous]

Wow, you would bet Zimmermans attorney is scouring the boards and net for commentary and public opinion. He must be desperate at this point. As he should be.

[Anonymous]

Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose and the back of his head. Witnesses heard someone screaming "help." We can agree from this that there was an altercation that occurred prior to the gunshot and that at one point Zimmerman found himself laid flat out on his back, right?

Trayvon's clothes, iphone photos, hoodie, suspension, and possible prior criminal activity do not have any bearing on whether it was justified to kill him. As a corollary, Zimmerman's prior criminal history, record of calling the police, decision to follow Trayvon and even rampant racism do not have any bearing on whether at that moment he reasonably "feared death or great bodily harm."

This investigation (or lack thereof) has been a travesty. The Florida statute is deeply flawed. This situation also calls into question the rules surrounding concealed carry permits. But I do think that it is too early and we are without enough information to make a call either way. At this point, the outrage should be direted at the Florida police, not necessarily Zimmerman himself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose and the back of his head. Witnesses heard someone screaming "help." We can agree from this that there was an altercation that occurred prior to the gunshot and that at one point Zimmerman found himself laid flat out on his back, right?

Trayvon's clothes, iphone photos, hoodie, suspension, and possible prior criminal activity do not have any bearing on whether it was justified to kill him. As a corollary, Zimmerman's prior criminal history, record of calling the police, decision to follow Trayvon and even rampant racism do not have any bearing on whether at that moment he reasonably "feared death or great bodily harm."

This investigation (or lack thereof) has been a travesty. The Florida statute is deeply flawed. This situation also calls into question the rules surrounding concealed carry permits. But I do think that it is too early and we are without enough information to make a call either way. At this point, the outrage should be direted at the Florida police, not necessarily Zimmerman himself.

#1-Other witnesses say that it was Trayvon screaming for help. Rather than believe one or the other, why not withhold judgement? What is your motivation in believing that witnesses that support Zimmerman?

#2-What possible criminal activity? There is NONE. Despite what some racists can't comprehend, Trayvon was not a violent thug.

#3-Zimmerman's violent past DOES have bearing on this case. Speaks to his ability to control his anger, likelihood to engage in a confrontation, etc.

[Anonymous]

#1-Other witnesses say that it was Trayvon screaming for help. Rather than believe one or the other, why not withhold judgement? What is your motivation in believing that witnesses that support Zimmerman?

#2-What possible criminal activity? There is NONE. Despite what some racists can't comprehend, Trayvon was not a violent thug.

#3-Zimmerman's violent past DOES have bearing on this case. Speaks to his ability to control his anger, likelihood to engage in a confrontation, etc.

1. I didn't say which one was screaming and I did withold judgment. My point was that someone had time to scream help. This tends to show that there was an altercation, as opposed to Z walking up and shooting someone without any engagement.

2. I said "possible" criminal activity. And my point is that it doesn't matter, even if it exists. To answer your point, some people had been alleging that Trayvon was using/selling marijuana, had been engaged in larceny and/or graffiti. These activities are against the law.

3. A person with a violent past can still be assualted and feel in danger for his life.

I think it is important to maintain some logical consistency. What matters is what happened in those moments. for purpoes of the legality or illegality of the killing. Trayvon's past does not matter. Zimmerman's past does not matter. What matters is those moments.

[Anonymous]

I think the first priority should be to find out what happened that night.

But, really, if some strange guy was following me in his car, got out of it, and came after me, I would feel pretty damned threatened. If I had a gun, I guess in Florida I would be justified in shooting first and asking questions later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the first priority should be to find out what happened that night.

But, really, if some strange guy was following me in his car, got out of it, and came after me, I would feel pretty damned threatened. If I had a gun, I guess in Florida I would be justified in shooting first and asking questions later.

Unfortunately, we'll never truly know what happened.

Only Zimmerman and Trayvon know how the altercation started. And dead witnesses can't talk. When this is coupled with the astounding ineptitude of the Sanford PD, it's almost a foregone conclusion that Zimmerman will walk. The most the family can hope for is to ruin him financially.

[Anonymous]

Zimmerman and anyone else involved should be afraid. Bounty on Zimmerman by the New Black Panthers and Spike Lee tweeting the address in Florida.

I googled that address and it is another area-not that development....obvious from google street view and the map. Do enough checking and you see there are other Zimmermans and other Tracy Martins.

So we now have news media and possibly vigilantes going to a house of an uninvolved person.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2012/mar/27/picket-spike-lee-re-tweets-incorrect-address-trayv/

The NY Times calling Zimmerman a white hispanic ...is that just to make this more virulent?

[Anonymous]

Hopefully the voice analysis will shed some light on this whole mess.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/florida-prosecutor-taps-experts-to-review-911-calls-in-trayvon-martin-shooting/2012/03/27/gIQAp0bWeS_story.html?hpid=z2

But, what will happen if the voice analysis shows that (1) Zimmerman did in fact use a racial epither during his call to 911 (and I suspect that he did), but (2) it was Zimmerman yelling for help on the subsequent 911 call (I've no idea, but it's certainy possible)?

[Anonymous]

The family should aim straight at the justice system that failed their child. The police did not conduct a thorough investigation, and are now engaged in a full-fledged CYA attempt via blaming the victim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the first priority should be to find out what happened that night.

But, really, if some strange guy was following me in his car, got out of it, and came after me, I would feel pretty damned threatened. If I had a gun, I guess in Florida I would be justified in shooting first and asking questions later.

Unfortunately, we'll never truly know what happened.

Only Zimmerman and Trayvon know how the altercation started. And dead witnesses can't talk. When this is coupled with the astounding ineptitude of the Sanford PD, it's almost a foregone conclusion that Zimmerman will walk. The most the family can hope for is to ruin him financially.

Well not exactly. The girlfriend has reported what she heard on the phone. Since she actually overheard some of the exchange between the two, it is not just hearsay. And her statement contradicts Zimmerman's on a really key point, namely that Zimmerman was not walking back to his car when the physical confrontation began.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Zimmerman and anyone else involved should be afraid. Bounty on Zimmerman by the New Black Panthers and Spike Lee tweeting the address in Florida.

I googled that address and it is another area-not that development....obvious from google street view and the map. Do enough checking and you see there are other Zimmermans and other Tracy Martins.

So we now have news media and possibly vigilantes going to a house of an uninvolved person.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2012/mar/27/picket-spike-lee-re-tweets-incorrect-address-trayv/

The NY Times calling Zimmerman a white hispanic ...is that just to make this more virulent?

My kids are hispanic. They are also white. Maybe that incendiary or maybe it's just factual.

[Anonymous]

Well not exactly. The girlfriend has reported what she heard on the phone. Since she actually overheard some of the exchange between the two, it is not just hearsay. And her statement contradicts Zimmerman's on a really key point, namely that Zimmerman was not walking back to his car when the physical confrontation began.

It is precisely the definition of hearsay.