Extreme resentment over mental load

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Who gets to decide when is the home happy?
Women just can't grasp how little it actually takes to make a man happy. They need about 3 things and women need about 1,000. And women can't understand why men don't just jump and complete 500 chores that he doesn't care about or even think to do because happiness was achieved 997 chores ago

What about the kids?

450 of those chores are for the kids. You misinterpret them as being for your wife's "happiness" when she's really just trying to help you fulfill your obligation as a dad.

AND because she has the ability to engage in planning a long term thinking, she also understand that a lot of what she's trying to get you to do is actually essential to your longterm happiness. Because if you do what you want, which is the bare minimum, your kids will eventually come to resent you and not want to spend time with you. And there is going to come a day when you suddenly want a family around you who cares about you. And you're going to be mad when your kids are like "Sorry, Dad, I'm so busy with work. Happy birthday though." Even though this is literally what you did to them and your wife for decades. This is precisely what all those things she's trying to get you to do is designed to prevent, but you are too shortsighted to realize this.

You will wind up angry and alone and wondering why your family has abandoned you, and I'm here to tell you that it's because you refused to give a damn about the happiness of your wife or children so they stopped giving a damn about yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

You do realize that men will say the same thing, except with regard to breadwinning.

Sure, men probably only say Breadwinning

Cuz that’s the only thing on their pea brain - paychecks, eat and sleep. Me me me me me.

Lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

You do realize that men will say the same thing, except with regard to breadwinning.

Literally 45% of women make the same or more than their male spouses. If men want to complain about breadwinning, they should be consistently breadwinning.

An 40% of mothers never married or had a husband to play father to his children so those mothers are the breadwinners as well.

So now we’re far in the majority of mothers are breadwinners

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Who gets to decide when is the home happy?
Women just can't grasp how little it actually takes to make a man happy. They need about 3 things and women need about 1,000. And women can't understand why men don't just jump and complete 500 chores that he doesn't care about or even think to do because happiness was achieved 997 chores ago

What about the kids?

450 of those chores are for the kids. You misinterpret them as being for your wife's "happiness" when she's really just trying to help you fulfill your obligation as a dad.

AND because she has the ability to engage in planning a long term thinking, she also understand that a lot of what she's trying to get you to do is actually essential to your longterm happiness. Because if you do what you want, which is the bare minimum, your kids will eventually come to resent you and not want to spend time with you. And there is going to come a day when you suddenly want a family around you who cares about you. And you're going to be mad when your kids are like "Sorry, Dad, I'm so busy with work. Happy birthday though." Even though this is literally what you did to them and your wife for decades. This is precisely what all those things she's trying to get you to do is designed to prevent, but you are too shortsighted to realize this.

You will wind up angry and alone and wondering why your family has abandoned you, and I'm here to tell you that it's because you refused to give a damn about the happiness of your wife or children so they stopped giving a damn about yours.

This won’t happen. The man will either enjoy being alone, hook up with a younger woman and have new kids, or will smoke pot and forget about his troubles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My AP and I joke about DW’s “mental load” all the time. (In fact DW sounds very much like one of you, I’d give it 50-50.)

Men — remember you have options. I know cheating is bad and I swore I would never do it but honestly it makes the whinging kind of funny to listen to. In a dark but satisfying way.

You’re probably a troll, but in case you’re not, just literally get a divorce.

Why? If you have all your needs satisfied why change anything?

Behold the low-integrity male, no need for self-respect. Disgusting.

A close reading reveals that he has plenty of self respect. It’s DW that he doesn’t respect.

Thx for defining —>misogyny.

Oh wait, it’s her fault he doesn’t respect her or other women —>gaslighting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Who gets to decide when is the home happy?
Women just can't grasp how little it actually takes to make a man happy. They need about 3 things and women need about 1,000. And women can't understand why men don't just jump and complete 500 chores that he doesn't care about or even think to do because happiness was achieved 997 chores ago

Troll

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

You do realize that men will say the same thing, except with regard to breadwinning.

Literally 45% of women make the same or more than their male spouses. If men want to complain about breadwinning, they should be consistently breadwinning.

An 40% of mothers never married or had a husband to play father to his children so those mothers are the breadwinners as well.

So now we’re far in the majority of mothers are breadwinners

Government is daddy now, with male tax payers subsidizing the baby mamas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

You do realize that men will say the same thing, except with regard to breadwinning.

Have you seen the stats on this? Or are you stuck in the 70s.

What’s “bread winning” mean? All you do is office work and are a paycheck? Wow.

Even not counting the 40% of pump and dump fathers who are never their children’s “breadwinner,” women are pulling their weight and more in all realms. Financial, parenting, maintaining the property, community, family traditions, emotional support, finding health treatments, schedule planning, socializing, finding appropriate ECs, etc.

Why do women marry men in the first place?? They seem to be completely unnecessary.

Agree, most males are net negatives, net liabilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

You do realize that men will say the same thing, except with regard to breadwinning.

Have you seen the stats on this? Or are you stuck in the 70s.

What’s “bread winning” mean? All you do is office work and are a paycheck? Wow.

Even not counting the 40% of pump and dump fathers who are never their children’s “breadwinner,” women are pulling their weight and more in all realms. Financial, parenting, maintaining the property, community, family traditions, emotional support, finding health treatments, schedule planning, socializing, finding appropriate ECs, etc.

Why do women marry men in the first place?? They seem to be completely unnecessary.

That's the scam. Tradition and religion both say it's important, because reasons, but both a predicated on ideas from a time when women literally had no other viable options for sustaining a life and livelihood. Owning property, having credit in her own name, working a job that can pay her own bills, etc. are all opportunities only relatively recently afforded to women, and there are plenty of "men" (in quotes, because not all men and certainly no good men) trying to revert back to rules and restrictions that would either directly or de facto remove those opportunities (keeping a woman pregnant and forcing the housework onto her mean she's less likely to have career success or even a career at all, just as an example).

Men don't know how to pull their weight because they didn't used to have to. Women don't know how not to settle because literally all the women who came before us did and that's what we saw, at least to some extent (yes, including your granny who stayed married for 60 years or whatever). Women who refuse to cater to men and capitulate to The Way Things Are are pariahs, and the people who will treat them most cruelly are actually other women who haven't the strength or the courage to try to correct the inequalities in their own homes and marriages. Just look at this thread.

+1! There is no need to get married and have kids. You can have kids on your own if you want them, or best arrangement— be in a house with other women and raise all your kids together. If you want sex there are always young guys available, but permanently attaching yourself to one is stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Who gets to decide when is the home happy?
Women just can't grasp how little it actually takes to make a man happy. They need about 3 things and women need about 1,000. And women can't understand why men don't just jump and complete 500 chores that he doesn't care about or even think to do because happiness was achieved 997 chores ago

What about the kids?

450 of those chores are for the kids. You misinterpret them as being for your wife's "happiness" when she's really just trying to help you fulfill your obligation as a dad.

AND because she has the ability to engage in planning a long term thinking, she also understand that a lot of what she's trying to get you to do is actually essential to your longterm happiness. Because if you do what you want, which is the bare minimum, your kids will eventually come to resent you and not want to spend time with you. And there is going to come a day when you suddenly want a family around you who cares about you. And you're going to be mad when your kids are like "Sorry, Dad, I'm so busy with work. Happy birthday though." Even though this is literally what you did to them and your wife for decades. This is precisely what all those things she's trying to get you to do is designed to prevent, but you are too shortsighted to realize this.

You will wind up angry and alone and wondering why your family has abandoned you, and I'm here to tell you that it's because you refused to give a damn about the happiness of your wife or children so they stopped giving a damn about yours.

Of course he does.

It’s called Willful Ignorance. Towards his very own family and their needs.

And ignorance is bliss.

Just stick your head in the sand and call everyone else crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

You do realize that men will say the same thing, except with regard to breadwinning.

Have you seen the stats on this? Or are you stuck in the 70s.

What’s “bread winning” mean? All you do is office work and are a paycheck? Wow.

Even not counting the 40% of pump and dump fathers who are never their children’s “breadwinner,” women are pulling their weight and more in all realms. Financial, parenting, maintaining the property, community, family traditions, emotional support, finding health treatments, schedule planning, socializing, finding appropriate ECs, etc.

Why do women marry men in the first place?? They seem to be completely unnecessary.

That's the scam. Tradition and religion both say it's important, because reasons, but both a predicated on ideas from a time when women literally had no other viable options for sustaining a life and livelihood. Owning property, having credit in her own name, working a job that can pay her own bills, etc. are all opportunities only relatively recently afforded to women, and there are plenty of "men" (in quotes, because not all men and certainly no good men) trying to revert back to rules and restrictions that would either directly or de facto remove those opportunities (keeping a woman pregnant and forcing the housework onto her mean she's less likely to have career success or even a career at all, just as an example).

Men don't know how to pull their weight because they didn't used to have to. Women don't know how not to settle because literally all the women who came before us did and that's what we saw, at least to some extent (yes, including your granny who stayed married for 60 years or whatever). Women who refuse to cater to men and capitulate to The Way Things Are are pariahs, and the people who will treat them most cruelly are actually other women who haven't the strength or the courage to try to correct the inequalities in their own homes and marriages. Just look at this thread.

+1! There is no need to get married and have kids. You can have kids on your own if you want them, or best arrangement— be in a house with other women and raise all your kids together. If you want sex there are always young guys available, but permanently attaching yourself to one is stupid.

+2. The only reason women marry is because they fear the judgment of other women. Like crabs in a jar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Who gets to decide when is the home happy?
Women just can't grasp how little it actually takes to make a man happy. They need about 3 things and women need about 1,000. And women can't understand why men don't just jump and complete 500 chores that he doesn't care about or even think to do because happiness was achieved 997 chores ago

What about the kids?

450 of those chores are for the kids. You misinterpret them as being for your wife's "happiness" when she's really just trying to help you fulfill your obligation as a dad.

AND because she has the ability to engage in planning a long term thinking, she also understand that a lot of what she's trying to get you to do is actually essential to your longterm happiness. Because if you do what you want, which is the bare minimum, your kids will eventually come to resent you and not want to spend time with you. And there is going to come a day when you suddenly want a family around you who cares about you. And you're going to be mad when your kids are like "Sorry, Dad, I'm so busy with work. Happy birthday though." Even though this is literally what you did to them and your wife for decades. This is precisely what all those things she's trying to get you to do is designed to prevent, but you are too shortsighted to realize this.

You will wind up angry and alone and wondering why your family has abandoned you, and I'm here to tell you that it's because you refused to give a damn about the happiness of your wife or children so they stopped giving a damn about yours.

This is a thread about optional tasks. It’s clear many of the posters here are unable to decide what’s important and prioritize.

The only person who ends up angry is the person who cannot prioritize and thinks her whole family should do the things she thinks is important.
-a woman who doesn’t engage in fake work

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote: Your kids who take the SAT should be signing themselves up. You guys make your own problems.

DP. No, parents have responsibility here. A husband should be capable of knowing this and assigning himself the task. If the husband is too incompetent or cannot be asked, its on the other parent and there is a case for resentment here.

The Venmo for the teacher gifts is optional. Tell the teacher your husband is too incompetent to parent and for the sake of your mental load, you needed to take responsibility for the SAT. They'll understand.

At least in my kids' classrooms, classroom arrangements, signup genius links, venmo requests, etc. are all done through a group chat via the school's app. All classroom parents are added. Emails are also sent to all classroom parents. Not ONE husband responds to chats, emails, signup genius. It's 100% moms. On the class party day there's decent dad turnout, so I know they're aware. And I know the majority of moms are working moms. It's been like this since daycare!

I also handle most kid admin in my house. My husband is no slouch otherwise, but there are times when I'm underwater and need help and he is completely blind to this kind of work no matter how many app notifications/emails/paperwork are sent. I have to directly ask. Yes, some of it's fluff, no one will die if we forget cookies for the teacher cookie exchange, but we DO need to get the required class shirt, recorder, contribute to group activities, pay for field trips, sign online permission slips, check grades and homework, update parental settings on devices, and on and on. I truly believe the idea that planning around children's lives is "women's work" is so pervasive, the vast majority of men will not change, even if it's subconscious and they present a flexible, equitable mindset.

Do not get me started on Christmas.

Same for us regarding all dads being on these chats and it being totally moms dealing with it. There are two dads (out of 40-some families across two classes) who participate.

And ALL the moms work, and many have jobs every bit as challenging as their husband's. Some are fily breadwinners.

Also, the two dads that participate -- their wives also participate. But for a lot of other families, the dad has zero involvement.

This is a UMC public school in DC. Also, some of the class and PTA stuff is dumb make work (I don't do that) but a lot of this is just necessary stuff -- making sure kids have supplies, knowing deadlines, ensuring there are sufficient chaperones for school trips, disseminating info about aftercare, administrative deadlines, etc.

That's how I know that the women in this thread saying "it's unequal" are not BSing. It's not! And it's not because all the women are bad communicators or just live feeling resentful or whatever. It's because it's just not equal. Most moms work, but few dads do as much parenting/household admin as moms. And that's just the truth. It's no wonder women sometimes complain. It is a testament to our fortitude that we don't complain more.

This is because MEN DON’T CARE about this pointless make-work pissing contest that WOMEN initiate and WOMEN expect other WOMEN to engage in! Even if you ask your husband if he thinks it’s important and he says “yes” he probably doesn’t. You can test this by not doing it - if he doesn’t do it himself, it’s because he simply DOES NOT GIVE A CRAP.

Ok, but when his wife DOES give a crap, or his kids do, you're saying his line is still well I don't care about it?

When we host parties in our house we have a list of things to do/clean beforehand. I'm way more Type A and anal than my husband, so I bet he could name multiple things on the list that he wouldn't do if he were throwing the party himself. But he knows they're important to me, so he does them. Because, you know, he loves me. The reverse is also true, there are things I participate in because they are important to him but not to me because that's the kind of thing you do for the person you married. Of course there are boundaries, and I'm not suggesting that everything is important, but when your spouse or child deems something important and you don't, it's worth looking into. You seem to think that because the husband doesn't care it must be meaningless.

No. That’s not what’s being discussed here. Because the men being excoriated in this thread do what their wives ask them. But it’s unreasonable to expect someone who thinks what their spouse is asking them to is a waste of time to take over the “mental load” of doing that task and then complain about how they do it (which, to be clear, is to allow said time wasting task to go undone and the mental load associated with it to slip away into the ether…)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My AP and I joke about DW’s “mental load” all the time. (In fact DW sounds very much like one of you, I’d give it 50-50.)

Men — remember you have options. I know cheating is bad and I swore I would never do it but honestly it makes the whinging kind of funny to listen to. In a dark but satisfying way.

You’re probably a troll, but in case you’re not, just literally get a divorce.

Why? If you have all your needs satisfied why change anything?

Behold the low-integrity male, no need for self-respect. Disgusting.

A close reading reveals that he has plenty of self respect. It’s DW that he doesn’t respect.

Thx for defining —>misogyny.

Oh wait, it’s her fault he doesn’t respect her or other women —>gaslighting.

I think someone is having fun riling you up. You’re not making it hard for them.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

You do realize that men will say the same thing, except with regard to breadwinning.

Have you seen the stats on this? Or are you stuck in the 70s.

What’s “bread winning” mean? All you do is office work and are a paycheck? Wow.

Even not counting the 40% of pump and dump fathers who are never their children’s “breadwinner,” women are pulling their weight and more in all realms. Financial, parenting, maintaining the property, community, family traditions, emotional support, finding health treatments, schedule planning, socializing, finding appropriate ECs, etc.

Why do women marry men in the first place?? They seem to be completely unnecessary.

That's the scam. Tradition and religion both say it's important, because reasons, but both a predicated on ideas from a time when women literally had no other viable options for sustaining a life and livelihood. Owning property, having credit in her own name, working a job that can pay her own bills, etc. are all opportunities only relatively recently afforded to women, and there are plenty of "men" (in quotes, because not all men and certainly no good men) trying to revert back to rules and restrictions that would either directly or de facto remove those opportunities (keeping a woman pregnant and forcing the housework onto her mean she's less likely to have career success or even a career at all, just as an example).

Men don't know how to pull their weight because they didn't used to have to. Women don't know how not to settle because literally all the women who came before us did and that's what we saw, at least to some extent (yes, including your granny who stayed married for 60 years or whatever). Women who refuse to cater to men and capitulate to The Way Things Are are pariahs, and the people who will treat them most cruelly are actually other women who haven't the strength or the courage to try to correct the inequalities in their own homes and marriages. Just look at this thread.

+1! There is no need to get married and have kids. You can have kids on your own if you want them, or best arrangement— be in a house with other women and raise all your kids together. If you want sex there are always young guys available, but permanently attaching yourself to one is stupid.

+2. The only reason women marry is because they fear the judgment of other women. Like crabs in a jar.

Speak for yourself.

No way I was raising kids by myself.