Holding my boundary. Let him be mad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that you have to set clear expectations and boundaries with a spouse who doesn’t proactively parent and would leave the work to you unless you said something.

There is a lot of pressure for women to pick up the slack and take on more work at home to keep the peace. It’s entirely fair to request an even distribution of labor at home and to not want to be taken advantage of.

Also, I don’t think real concerns over consistent inequalities with division of labor should be reduced to “tantrums” or “bean counting”. Flexibility is so important but both partners need to be offering it and it shouldn’t result in one partner continuously taking on the bulk of the work. That’s a pattern of behavior and it only leads to resentment and frustration

Op here. This. He doesn’t proactively parent. Or proactively do things around the house. If I don’t ask him to do things, he’s satisfied to sit and either catch up on work or watch tv. Then he grumbles or half asses the task.

Recent example/ I asked him to please put away the dish towels as I folded laundry. He put them on top of
The stove. Not in the drawer next to the stove. Jsut on top of the stove. Go ahead and flame me All you want but the weaponized incompetence and “I’ll don’t best she will do the rest” attitude is GRATING. It makes me feel taken advantage of and used. And that he feels his time is so much more important that he can’t be bothered. I wanted a partner out of marriage. Not an intern waiting for assignments. At least an intern would do things more than half assed.

Please get marriage therapy or your intense focus on details will kill you and his inabilty to focus on details will kill him.

If you've already tried therapy and want to dismiss the idea "because it didn't work," either try again or admit you are both failures are being married because your expections and his expectations are so ill-matched and because you both communicate horribly. And you both are focused on minutiae and keeping score and both have to be right, right, right.

Find a new couples therapist and commit to therapy (and to letting the towels thing just GO) if you want to stay married. I don't actually know why you married each other in the first place. Did you ever love each other? Why do your score-keeping parenting and household chores destroy whatever positives you saw in each other?

I don’t disagree with any of this. It’s hard to not keep score and “bean count” when I look around and can’t figure out what he contributes to make life run easier smoother etc. I don’t see what positives he adds to my life, much of the time. I don’t need him for finances, and it’s not like he is leading the charge re parenting or the home. It’s hard to think of wiping the slate clean.

I was busting my ass working saving money while pregnant and he refused to get out there and try to make more money. I am so resentful for that. I begged him to take a non passion project job to pad our accounts for preparation for baby. I felt like I was thinking about what was best for us and our growing family, and he was only thinking about him. That still feels true today. I don’t know how to just wipe that resentment away. Especially when it keeps Manifesting in different forms

I honestly do not see any hope for your marriage. Yet, I think you will be equally if not more unhappy after the split. $ is a huge issue for you, you mention it constantly yet seem to be doing ok financially. You don't seem willing to spend to make life easier and less stressful. 2 households is not cheaper and you may have to pay him child support.

On the contrary, I thing she would personally be much happier divorced, but financially, she will be more unhappy. Worth it for me. It is not for everyone.

I could not get a break until I divorced. Ex did zero until then and I worked. I literally could not get an hour off until my oldest was 7 and I started the divorce process. He admitted he would have continued to do zero childcare duties if we had stayed married (and he was the one who pushed kids…not me). I literally had not been to the gym in 7 years. When there is no respect and all that is left is resentment and contempt, it is over. We had two sexless marriage stretches (no sex at all for 2 years and later 5 years). I stayed way too long. I was dying in that marriage. Would have been wealthier if I stayed…it was not worth the money.

This is on you. F that. You get dressed for the gym and leave the house. There had to be at least one hour during your 7 years that he was home and you could have walked out the door.

Where is the agency? In 2023 a grown man can’t keep a grown woman from going to the gym. That’s crazy talk. I can’t imagine getting divorced instead of just forcing him to change. Almost all men take advantage of free labor from woman unless forced to not do so.

He would not watch the kids. I also could not spend my own money or go to the grocery store. He went and would not let me and yelled at me if I bought something. You can’t change an emotional abuser: I wasted 10 years. You can’t force people to change.

That’s illegal. Leave the house and then call the cops on him.

I was not leaving my kids with someone who would not watch them. I was also not involving law enforcement. That is crazy. I waited until they were in elementary school and then divorced. He does 50% now. The only way he was going to so anything is if I was not there to do it for him. He admitted this himself. I had to wait until the kids were old enough to do it. Before 1st grade, no way I could leave kids with him. Some is this is generational. Gen X is different and more typical gender roles at home even if the mother is working.

Try again. I'm Gen X as are all my friends. None of us are in this scenario.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP is the biggest drama llama.

I feel for her child.

DH is most likely to remarry, hopefully it will be to someone warm.

OP will be bitter for the rest of her life, it's her nature and she combatively defends it. No quality guy will want to be with someone like her, she will just get worse with age and with no introspection.

You're nuts. She's in a bad situation that would make almost anyone bitter because she lives with someone who is supposed to be her partner but treats her and her time with contempt. If the situation improves, like if the husband gets better or she leaves, she'll be a happier person.

Take your focus off OP's framing and look at the 3 yr old who tried to connect with mommy, rebuffed to score points, and whose father left without a goodbye, again to score points in the toxicity with OP.

OP's sense of self is rooted in being a martyr, that is why she makes extra errands and does not do amazon, etc (free delivery!) Once DH is gone as a primary focus, she will be the martyr re: her daughter and to some extent, probably, always ex-DH.

OP and her DH both suck. They use the kid as a pawn even now. No emotional ties to spouse, kid, others are mentioned, just a grinding focus on amplified work on the one hand and you can't make me on the other.

What feelings of warmth and joy are being created for the kid? What friends and social life surround the family? Just toxicity, isolation, screens and "enrichment" seems like. One narc parent is tough, 2 and it really is not a happy home life for the kid.

No solutions can be entertained, like Amazon, bc martyr is OP's power.

I'm not going to bother to scroll through over 30 pages of responses, but I'm pretty sure the errands OP mentioned were Trader Joe's (which, as far as I know, does not participate in Instacart or Ship't or something similar and does have specific items that you can't find at other grocery stores) and Amazon RETURNS, which are not the same thing as ordering from Amazon and you will be charged for the UPS pick up option.

I am a huge delivery person - I order pretty much everything for my entire life online, but I also know that some things need to be bought in person, and it sounds like that's what OP was doing, not "making extra errands."

Also, I'm not one of the people who have posted who is hardcore team OP, but some of you just make stuff up to prove your points and it's annoying.

Does UPS or Trader Joe's ban children from their premises? That could be done in the afternoon with the kid and thus not encroaching on hair washing time.

STOP MOVING THE GOALPOSTS

The post I responded to was about how OP is "making up extra chores". I explained that that isn't what she was doing.

Now you want to harp on the fact that those stores allow kids? That wasn't the point to which I responded.

Also, as far as not taking her kid on errands, OP said she chose to do enriching things like going to a museum.

I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU PEOPLE ARE YELLING AT OP FOR NOT DRAGGING HER KID ON ERRANDS BUT INSTEAD USING HER TIME TO DO THOSE THINGS.

If we can talk about dad “golfing” its all fair game.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Op here. Things of note:
-I would never quit my job. For one, I like making my own money. I would never make myself financial dependent on a man. Also, I have carried the health benefits for our family for the last 6 years. And I don’t trust my husband in terms of job stability
-Guess what I also often do on my “sat am free time”…other than working out for an hour and maybe reading for 30min or so. Grocery shopping. Trader Joe’s. Amazon returns to the ups store. Target runs for earth day items for dd’s school. Aka things for my f-ing family that aren’t even on dh’s radar or he assumes/expects that I will handle. Because I always have.
- I didn’t throw a tantrum or yell in front of dd. I literally said: “excited to play with you all afternoon after your nap” I told my dh: “you got nap and lunch” it was my dh who said “me? Why would I do it?” And I said why wouldn’t you. What did I do after dd got up from her nap? Took her to the museum, had a wonderful day. What did dh do? Pack for his work trip, leave the house for a few hours, and didn’t see dd for the rest of the day. He left in the morning for a week long trip. And didn’t see dd after giving her lunch and putting her down for nap. Dd woke up asking where daddy was. I said he went on an airplane for work and will come back. “Why didn’t he kiss me goodnight?” Now talk to me about parental engagement and involvement.
- as he packed, I told dh I was sorry his feelings were hurt but that I needed to talk to him about what happened. His reply “I vented and I think I’m good now.” He has texted me from his work trip as if nothing happened. Sending pictures of meals at restaurants and telling me about the weather. Literally as if nothing happened.

I haven’t left bc I think custody wouid be a nightmare and the finances of two homes an even bigger one.

OP, you clearly LOATHE your husband. Everything you’ve said about him reeks of bitterness and dislike. I think you should stop complaining and just get a divorce

+1

DH didn’t think it was a big deal because it wasn’t a big deal. OP is a high maintenance drama queen who acts like spending time with her daughter is like scrubbing toilets.

DH didn’t want to spend that time with his daughter either after passing her off to his mom all morning. Yet you only bash the OP.

But OP was mad at what he didn't do on her time. He didn't even kiss her goodnight! It cuts both ways. She didn't tuck her kid in for nap either, or fix her lunch, or want to spend time before getting the daughter handed off on her time. The kid wants both her parents involved not just one or the other. Instead she has these two yahoos playing hot potato.

There’s a huge difference between lunch and a goodnight kiss. No one really loves to make lunch for their kid—we do it because we have to. But a goodnight kiss? I want to kiss my kids goodnight, and miss it terribly when I’m traveling. The fact that he doesn’t want to…well, it says something about his relationship to his child.

That's what I think about a mother who shoos her kid away and tells her she will see her after the nap. Poor kid to end up with these two parents. Peas in a pod.

But she has a parent who will make her lunch. Anyone can make a kid lunch. Lunch isn’t a kiss. Mom’s kiss isn’t the same as Dad’s kiss.

Oh stop it. Both people can be wrong here. Dad may be slightly more wrong but neither look good. And the kiss stuff is just ick. No need to go there.

I have no idea what you mean by the kiss stuff being “ick.” Are you reading something sexual into this? If so, you’re the pervert, not me. What a disgusting person you are.

Go on then weirdo, tell us why mom's kiss is better than dad's kiss?

If you actually read for comprehension, you would see that I said mom’s kiss and dad’s kiss aren’t the same. Like, you can’t just substitute one or the other—you need both. Whereas who TF cares who makes the tuna fish sandwich. It’s just a sandwich, it’s not a personal expression of love.

Disagree. At that age, time and proximity is what they want - those are acts of love. Choosing not to see your kid until 3pm+ each Saturday is not an act of love.

+100. That poor child.

Fast forward 30 years and OP will be wondering why her dear daughter never calls or visits

I do think OP is being too rigid but no one, NO ONE, would ever say this about a father who golfs every Saturday til 3.

I guess if I knew such a dinosaur like that I would say something but all the dads I know are out coaching sports on Saturday mornings or taking kids to games and tournaments. Or otherwise engaged in child rearing. I don’t know people like Op and her husband who are so resentful and uninterested in their kid.

What do you have to say about a father who can't be bothered to make his own daughter lunch and put her down for a nap? The only person who has actually verbally tried to get out of spending time with this child is her father. Her mother was very clear about being excited to see her after lunch and the fun things they would do, which they then did. Her father was the one who tried to get out of lunch duty and then made a stink about it with OP.

The same thing i say about the mom. Someone please take care of the kid. The parents suck.

Did you though? Did you say it in any post these last 34 pages other than just now, when called out? The assumption that OP is more responsible in this situation for negative feelings is misogynist.

Several times. You are being deliberately obtuse at this point anointing mom and demonizing dad. Is OP paying you or something? Are you a sock puppet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that you have to set clear expectations and boundaries with a spouse who doesn’t proactively parent and would leave the work to you unless you said something.

There is a lot of pressure for women to pick up the slack and take on more work at home to keep the peace. It’s entirely fair to request an even distribution of labor at home and to not want to be taken advantage of.

Also, I don’t think real concerns over consistent inequalities with division of labor should be reduced to “tantrums” or “bean counting”. Flexibility is so important but both partners need to be offering it and it shouldn’t result in one partner continuously taking on the bulk of the work. That’s a pattern of behavior and it only leads to resentment and frustration

Op here. This. He doesn’t proactively parent. Or proactively do things around the house. If I don’t ask him to do things, he’s satisfied to sit and either catch up on work or watch tv. Then he grumbles or half asses the task.

Recent example/ I asked him to please put away the dish towels as I folded laundry. He put them on top of
The stove. Not in the drawer next to the stove. Jsut on top of the stove. Go ahead and flame me All you want but the weaponized incompetence and “I’ll don’t best she will do the rest” attitude is GRATING. It makes me feel taken advantage of and used. And that he feels his time is so much more important that he can’t be bothered. I wanted a partner out of marriage. Not an intern waiting for assignments. At least an intern would do things more than half assed.

Please get marriage therapy or your intense focus on details will kill you and his inabilty to focus on details will kill him.

If you've already tried therapy and want to dismiss the idea "because it didn't work," either try again or admit you are both failures are being married because your expections and his expectations are so ill-matched and because you both communicate horribly. And you both are focused on minutiae and keeping score and both have to be right, right, right.

Find a new couples therapist and commit to therapy (and to letting the towels thing just GO) if you want to stay married. I don't actually know why you married each other in the first place. Did you ever love each other? Why do your score-keeping parenting and household chores destroy whatever positives you saw in each other?

I don’t disagree with any of this. It’s hard to not keep score and “bean count” when I look around and can’t figure out what he contributes to make life run easier smoother etc. I don’t see what positives he adds to my life, much of the time. I don’t need him for finances, and it’s not like he is leading the charge re parenting or the home. It’s hard to think of wiping the slate clean.

I was busting my ass working saving money while pregnant and he refused to get out there and try to make more money. I am so resentful for that. I begged him to take a non passion project job to pad our accounts for preparation for baby. I felt like I was thinking about what was best for us and our growing family, and he was only thinking about him. That still feels true today. I don’t know how to just wipe that resentment away. Especially when it keeps Manifesting in different forms

I honestly do not see any hope for your marriage. Yet, I think you will be equally if not more unhappy after the split. $ is a huge issue for you, you mention it constantly yet seem to be doing ok financially. You don't seem willing to spend to make life easier and less stressful. 2 households is not cheaper and you may have to pay him child support.

On the contrary, I thing she would personally be much happier divorced, but financially, she will be more unhappy. Worth it for me. It is not for everyone.

I could not get a break until I divorced. Ex did zero until then and I worked. I literally could not get an hour off until my oldest was 7 and I started the divorce process. He admitted he would have continued to do zero childcare duties if we had stayed married (and he was the one who pushed kids…not me). I literally had not been to the gym in 7 years. When there is no respect and all that is left is resentment and contempt, it is over. We had two sexless marriage stretches (no sex at all for 2 years and later 5 years). I stayed way too long. I was dying in that marriage. Would have been wealthier if I stayed…it was not worth the money.

This is on you. F that. You get dressed for the gym and leave the house. There had to be at least one hour during your 7 years that he was home and you could have walked out the door.

Where is the agency? In 2023 a grown man can’t keep a grown woman from going to the gym. That’s crazy talk. I can’t imagine getting divorced instead of just forcing him to change. Almost all men take advantage of free labor from woman unless forced to not do so.

He would not watch the kids. I also could not spend my own money or go to the grocery store. He went and would not let me and yelled at me if I bought something. You can’t change an emotional abuser: I wasted 10 years. You can’t force people to change.

That’s illegal. Leave the house and then call the cops on him.

I was not leaving my kids with someone who would not watch them. I was also not involving law enforcement. That is crazy. I waited until they were in elementary school and then divorced. He does 50% now. The only way he was going to so anything is if I was not there to do it for him. He admitted this himself. I had to wait until the kids were old enough to do it. Before 1st grade, no way I could leave kids with him. Some is this is generational. Gen X is different and more typical gender roles at home even if the mother is working.

Try again. I'm Gen X as are all my friends. None of us are in this scenario.

Unfortunately, inequitable division of labor is a well studied and documented issue even among millennials. While gender roles have changed dramatically in recent decades, this is a challenge in many households even now in the year of out lord 2023

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that you have to set clear expectations and boundaries with a spouse who doesn’t proactively parent and would leave the work to you unless you said something.

There is a lot of pressure for women to pick up the slack and take on more work at home to keep the peace. It’s entirely fair to request an even distribution of labor at home and to not want to be taken advantage of.

Also, I don’t think real concerns over consistent inequalities with division of labor should be reduced to “tantrums” or “bean counting”. Flexibility is so important but both partners need to be offering it and it shouldn’t result in one partner continuously taking on the bulk of the work. That’s a pattern of behavior and it only leads to resentment and frustration

Op here. This. He doesn’t proactively parent. Or proactively do things around the house. If I don’t ask him to do things, he’s satisfied to sit and either catch up on work or watch tv. Then he grumbles or half asses the task.

Recent example/ I asked him to please put away the dish towels as I folded laundry. He put them on top of
The stove. Not in the drawer next to the stove. Jsut on top of the stove. Go ahead and flame me All you want but the weaponized incompetence and “I’ll don’t best she will do the rest” attitude is GRATING. It makes me feel taken advantage of and used. And that he feels his time is so much more important that he can’t be bothered. I wanted a partner out of marriage. Not an intern waiting for assignments. At least an intern would do things more than half assed.

Please get marriage therapy or your intense focus on details will kill you and his inabilty to focus on details will kill him.

If you've already tried therapy and want to dismiss the idea "because it didn't work," either try again or admit you are both failures are being married because your expections and his expectations are so ill-matched and because you both communicate horribly. And you both are focused on minutiae and keeping score and both have to be right, right, right.

Find a new couples therapist and commit to therapy (and to letting the towels thing just GO) if you want to stay married. I don't actually know why you married each other in the first place. Did you ever love each other? Why do your score-keeping parenting and household chores destroy whatever positives you saw in each other?

I don’t disagree with any of this. It’s hard to not keep score and “bean count” when I look around and can’t figure out what he contributes to make life run easier smoother etc. I don’t see what positives he adds to my life, much of the time. I don’t need him for finances, and it’s not like he is leading the charge re parenting or the home. It’s hard to think of wiping the slate clean.

I was busting my ass working saving money while pregnant and he refused to get out there and try to make more money. I am so resentful for that. I begged him to take a non passion project job to pad our accounts for preparation for baby. I felt like I was thinking about what was best for us and our growing family, and he was only thinking about him. That still feels true today. I don’t know how to just wipe that resentment away. Especially when it keeps Manifesting in different forms

I honestly do not see any hope for your marriage. Yet, I think you will be equally if not more unhappy after the split. $ is a huge issue for you, you mention it constantly yet seem to be doing ok financially. You don't seem willing to spend to make life easier and less stressful. 2 households is not cheaper and you may have to pay him child support.

Since they have a child, the judge will require him to earn to his full potential. Bye-bye, hobby job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please divorce him, he’s suffered enough. Money isn’t everything.

Oh, yes, he’s SUCH a victim.

You’re absurd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t read all pages of this but per the original post Saturday AM was mom alone time and he did take DD and came back “around noon.” Which seems like the exact agreed upon transition time. Don’t understand what the issue is but clearly a dysfunctional relationship here. Poor kid.

This has been covered approximately 500 times already, but just to recap, “noon” is irrelevant. Their standing agreement is that he has the child in the morning, through lunch and until she’s out down for a nap, then mom takes over when the child wakes up from her nap. You’re welcome.

Yes, but the bigger issue is that the very system they have agreed to is one of a dysfunctional family and designed to fail. This outcome was inevitable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that you have to set clear expectations and boundaries with a spouse who doesn’t proactively parent and would leave the work to you unless you said something.

There is a lot of pressure for women to pick up the slack and take on more work at home to keep the peace. It’s entirely fair to request an even distribution of labor at home and to not want to be taken advantage of.

Also, I don’t think real concerns over consistent inequalities with division of labor should be reduced to “tantrums” or “bean counting”. Flexibility is so important but both partners need to be offering it and it shouldn’t result in one partner continuously taking on the bulk of the work. That’s a pattern of behavior and it only leads to resentment and frustration

Op here. This. He doesn’t proactively parent. Or proactively do things around the house. If I don’t ask him to do things, he’s satisfied to sit and either catch up on work or watch tv. Then he grumbles or half asses the task.

Recent example/ I asked him to please put away the dish towels as I folded laundry. He put them on top of
The stove. Not in the drawer next to the stove. Jsut on top of the stove. Go ahead and flame me All you want but the weaponized incompetence and “I’ll don’t best she will do the rest” attitude is GRATING. It makes me feel taken advantage of and used. And that he feels his time is so much more important that he can’t be bothered. I wanted a partner out of marriage. Not an intern waiting for assignments. At least an intern would do things more than half assed.

Please get marriage therapy or your intense focus on details will kill you and his inabilty to focus on details will kill him.

If you've already tried therapy and want to dismiss the idea "because it didn't work," either try again or admit you are both failures are being married because your expections and his expectations are so ill-matched and because you both communicate horribly. And you both are focused on minutiae and keeping score and both have to be right, right, right.

Find a new couples therapist and commit to therapy (and to letting the towels thing just GO) if you want to stay married. I don't actually know why you married each other in the first place. Did you ever love each other? Why do your score-keeping parenting and household chores destroy whatever positives you saw in each other?

I don’t disagree with any of this. It’s hard to not keep score and “bean count” when I look around and can’t figure out what he contributes to make life run easier smoother etc. I don’t see what positives he adds to my life, much of the time. I don’t need him for finances, and it’s not like he is leading the charge re parenting or the home. It’s hard to think of wiping the slate clean.

I was busting my ass working saving money while pregnant and he refused to get out there and try to make more money. I am so resentful for that. I begged him to take a non passion project job to pad our accounts for preparation for baby. I felt like I was thinking about what was best for us and our growing family, and he was only thinking about him. That still feels true today. I don’t know how to just wipe that resentment away. Especially when it keeps Manifesting in different forms

I honestly do not see any hope for your marriage. Yet, I think you will be equally if not more unhappy after the split. $ is a huge issue for you, you mention it constantly yet seem to be doing ok financially. You don't seem willing to spend to make life easier and less stressful. 2 households is not cheaper and you may have to pay him child support.

On the contrary, I thing she would personally be much happier divorced, but financially, she will be more unhappy. Worth it for me. It is not for everyone.

I could not get a break until I divorced. Ex did zero until then and I worked. I literally could not get an hour off until my oldest was 7 and I started the divorce process. He admitted he would have continued to do zero childcare duties if we had stayed married (and he was the one who pushed kids…not me). I literally had not been to the gym in 7 years. When there is no respect and all that is left is resentment and contempt, it is over. We had two sexless marriage stretches (no sex at all for 2 years and later 5 years). I stayed way too long. I was dying in that marriage. Would have been wealthier if I stayed…it was not worth the money.

This is on you. F that. You get dressed for the gym and leave the house. There had to be at least one hour during your 7 years that he was home and you could have walked out the door.

Where is the agency? In 2023 a grown man can’t keep a grown woman from going to the gym. That’s crazy talk. I can’t imagine getting divorced instead of just forcing him to change. Almost all men take advantage of free labor from woman unless forced to not do so.

He would not watch the kids. I also could not spend my own money or go to the grocery store. He went and would not let me and yelled at me if I bought something. You can’t change an emotional abuser: I wasted 10 years. You can’t force people to change.

That’s illegal. Leave the house and then call the cops on him.

I was not leaving my kids with someone who would not watch them. I was also not involving law enforcement. That is crazy. I waited until they were in elementary school and then divorced. He does 50% now. The only way he was going to so anything is if I was not there to do it for him. He admitted this himself. I had to wait until the kids were old enough to do it. Before 1st grade, no way I could leave kids with him. Some is this is generational. Gen X is different and more typical gender roles at home even if the mother is working.

Try again. I'm Gen X as are all my friends. None of us are in this scenario.

Well, lucky you. I have several friends in this exact situation. Some stay married. Some divorced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, can your MIL handle your DD solo for a few hours every weekend? That way, you and DH both get solo time at once, and the rest of the weekend you spend together as a family? I agree solo time is important, but when both parents work FT, there is not a lot of quality time during the week, so weekends are precious.

I also don’t think your solo time should be spent on home organization or grocery shopping or working. Do the errands together, the three of you. And keep weekends free of work (or alternatively designate 3 weeknights to keep free of work). Spend your solo time in r&r mode.

I said the same as above. Look around the grocery store and Target on a Saturday morning, it's all kids with their parents. Why waste your time alone doing what could be done with the kid. My kids all loved going to Target, by the way. And do grocery delivery. Order school crap from Amazon. This doesn't have to be as hard as OP is making it out to be. But she really seems to want to maximize the victimhood. Her precious Saturday morning time is being squandered this way.

So let dad take over the shopping and child errands and take his daughter shopping with him. Done.

Sure why not. But op probably realizes she already gets the better shift maybe she thought it was the right thing to do. The morning person has a longer day. There are other ways to get the chores done so it’s weird that op wastes her “me” time doing them. Get the groceries delivered, Amazon, but she is a glutton for punishment and takes the hard road. None of this makes a lot of sense.

I agree and wonder if this is a troll? If not it is really sad, for all 3 of them.

OP, your anger will not vanish when you file for divorce, I don't think. I don't think the current situation is sustainable, one or both of you is an affair waiting to happen but I think the same feelings will be there even after the split. You said you think so too.

Can you table the issues re: your obligations and try to go back in your history to find some of the roots of the rage and some of the patterns that are being replicated? Maybe journal or find a support group or a CBT or DBT therapist that will help you regulate some of your reactivity? Maybe a meditation practice and a book like Wherever You Go, There You Are?

There have been a few questions about your childhood experiences but your posts are just about DH and everyday obligations and chores. What makes you feel connected to yourself and others? What gives you joy? When do you laugh? You seem to have a very Calvinist approach to life yet it makes you miserable, yet you do not adopt other common approaches. It's a bit confusing. If you did outsource so the "burdens" would be gone, what would your identity be? Where would the anxiety focus then? If there was a cleaning service, a weekend babysitter, Amazon and grocery delivery? Are there any times that you are not "achieving" - cleaning, running errands that are optional, exercising, enriching kid, etc? What did you and DH do for dates before you were married?

You did not mention friends, family traditions, time with neighbors, etc. Chores, $ and power struggles seems to occupy so much of your sense of self and your time, when you could outsource and are financially stable. Did your family have issues around money? You mention DH losing one job, common, but now you don't trust him to be employed? There is a lot of anxiety around a lot of issues, a lot of time alone ruminating, all of that stokes the anger. But, if God forbid, DH's plane crashed, would you still rage about having to keep the house afloat financially and carry the insurance? Most of us take those things for granted, the weight and resentment you put on them speak to core wounds. Cutting DH loose is not going to resolve any of that, you need to do that introspection and processing.

Dh asked for the morning shift.

I come from supportive parents, who are still married. My dad was definitely involved and very caring, hands on. My mom was also extremely hands on, and very much a martyr. Interestingly, my mom out earned my dad their entitled marriage.

I love to read, travel, I try occasionally to get to a sat am Zumba type class, and I take my dd often to diff museums and parks during our solo time.

When dh is not here, I often feel more alive. I without question feel a peace and calm come over me. From his energy to literally not picking up after him- I feel like a better version of myself. And that’s a lot to type out but I am being honest.

Read Codependent No More.

Get to counseling and hold him accountable to some chores, let the rest go. You need to learn to mentally detach. You have taken on the martyr role you saw modeled.

OP, do you socialize with other couples, and/or other families? It seems like you are alone a lot and in your head or one on one with a toddler. Instead of having social connections with others you ruminate. Do you have families over so the kids can play? Go to other people's houses to get a sense of more cohesive, loving family styles?

You are going to find ways to continue this pattern of externalizing your anxiety and deriving a sense of self from righteousness and power struggles even when DH is long gone. For some that is a big dopamine hit pattern. I predict a very difficult relationship with your daughter, between your toxic home which you are 50% responsible for and the looming divorce, she will NOT have had a happy childhood. Museums matter little in comparison to that. You will just apply this template until you change it. Do you have close friends? Get along well with people at work? You are 100% responsible for your reactions, they are choices.

Your DH is not great but he is not so dissimilar to many and not everyone chooses this War of the Roses life. Your kid is watching all of this and is not feeling cherished, happy, relaxed. With the same DH, you could choose to provide her with that type of home but it's all a zero sum game to you, it seems. No care about her emotional well being at all. What attracted you to DH? Why did you have a child with him? You are hurting your kid with your behavior and you don't even want to shift your focus off being a martyr for a minute to contemplate that. Your mom must be some piece of work.

You have to be freaking kidding me. Other husbands and fathers are lazy and selfish, so OP should accept it too? Please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, do you and your husband have a sex life? Have you had sex since the 3 year old was born?

Is he a lawyer too?

Were you a SAHM when he lost his job?

Divorce looks really likely for you guys. Unless you get therapy I'm not sure you will be less angry and resentful of an ex-DH.

OP, what was your childhood like? How was your rx with your dad? Do you have issues with authority figures at work? It just feels like there is so much anger and unhappiness and disconnection and resentment. Maybe some patterns are being recreated?

I have never not worked. He made more than me after law school, but I’ve always worked.
Definitely have huge resentment surrounding his period of unemployment. He decided to pursue a passion project after being laid off they takes twice as much time and makes 1/3 of his prior salary. We are not wealthy. If we had more money I would outsource more things like cleaning babysitters for date night etc. I have asked him for years to consider (even apply) for higher paying jobs. He will not. And before I get flamed again, NO I’m not going to be the one to go run for a higher paying job bc I carry the benefits and I need to make sure we are stable.

Your focus on being "flamed" here is striking since most have been supportive. You seem very locked into a victim mentality even though the reality is different.

How can you be a lawyer and not have a high paying job? Are you a fed? Is he a lawyer too? If he got laid off from BigLaw how could he possibly be doing work now that requires MORE time?

Your life sounds absolutely tragic for your child, ngl, so much tension and passive aggressiveness and the dynamic just seems toxic.

WHAT?!? Have you read the almost 30 pages? People have literally OP she should give her daughter up for adoption. I'm not sure I'd say "most" have been supportive. Maybe half, at best. And the ones who haven't have been awful.

+1,000. PP’s reading comprehension is terrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, do you and your husband have a sex life? Have you had sex since the 3 year old was born?

Is he a lawyer too?

Were you a SAHM when he lost his job?

Divorce looks really likely for you guys. Unless you get therapy I'm not sure you will be less angry and resentful of an ex-DH.

OP, what was your childhood like? How was your rx with your dad? Do you have issues with authority figures at work? It just feels like there is so much anger and unhappiness and disconnection and resentment. Maybe some patterns are being recreated?

I have never not worked. He made more than me after law school, but I’ve always worked.
Definitely have huge resentment surrounding his period of unemployment. He decided to pursue a passion project after being laid off they takes twice as much time and makes 1/3 of his prior salary. We are not wealthy. If we had more money I would outsource more things like cleaning babysitters for date night etc. I have asked him for years to consider (even apply) for higher paying jobs. He will not. And before I get flamed again, NO I’m not going to be the one to go run for a higher paying job bc I carry the benefits and I need to make sure we are stable.

Your focus on being "flamed" here is striking since most have been supportive. You seem very locked into a victim mentality even though the reality is different.

How can you be a lawyer and not have a high paying job? Are you a fed? Is he a lawyer too? If he got laid off from BigLaw how could he possibly be doing work now that requires MORE time?

Your life sounds absolutely tragic for your child, ngl, so much tension and passive aggressiveness and the dynamic just seems toxic.

WHAT?!? Have you read the almost 30 pages? People have literally OP she should give her daughter up for adoption. I'm not sure I'd say "most" have been supportive. Maybe half, at best. And the ones who haven't have been awful.

+1,000. PP’s reading comprehension is terrible.

Whats your advice for polishing this turd of a DH? Or are you just here to bash other posters while not being remotely helpful, only argumentative?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really think OP is a troll.

I think if OP was a troll, that would've come up when Jeff reviewed this thread.

I think there are a lot of trolls on this thread, but I don't think OP is one of them.

Agreed, including the idiots lambasting OP and the Queen Idiot, who told her to put her kid up for adoption.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Op here. Things of note:
-I would never quit my job. For one, I like making my own money. I would never make myself financial dependent on a man. Also, I have carried the health benefits for our family for the last 6 years. And I don’t trust my husband in terms of job stability
-Guess what I also often do on my “sat am free time”…other than working out for an hour and maybe reading for 30min or so. Grocery shopping. Trader Joe’s. Amazon returns to the ups store. Target runs for earth day items for dd’s school. Aka things for my f-ing family that aren’t even on dh’s radar or he assumes/expects that I will handle. Because I always have.
- I didn’t throw a tantrum or yell in front of dd. I literally said: “excited to play with you all afternoon after your nap” I told my dh: “you got nap and lunch” it was my dh who said “me? Why would I do it?” And I said why wouldn’t you. What did I do after dd got up from her nap? Took her to the museum, had a wonderful day. What did dh do? Pack for his work trip, leave the house for a few hours, and didn’t see dd for the rest of the day. He left in the morning for a week long trip. And didn’t see dd after giving her lunch and putting her down for nap. Dd woke up asking where daddy was. I said he went on an airplane for work and will come back. “Why didn’t he kiss me goodnight?” Now talk to me about parental engagement and involvement.
- as he packed, I told dh I was sorry his feelings were hurt but that I needed to talk to him about what happened. His reply “I vented and I think I’m good now.” He has texted me from his work trip as if nothing happened. Sending pictures of meals at restaurants and telling me about the weather. Literally as if nothing happened.

I haven’t left bc I think custody wouid be a nightmare and the finances of two homes an even bigger one.

OP, you clearly LOATHE your husband. Everything you’ve said about him reeks of bitterness and dislike. I think you should stop complaining and just get a divorce

+1

DH didn’t think it was a big deal because it wasn’t a big deal. OP is a high maintenance drama queen who acts like spending time with her daughter is like scrubbing toilets.

DH didn’t want to spend that time with his daughter either after passing her off to his mom all morning. Yet you only bash the OP.

But OP was mad at what he didn't do on her time. He didn't even kiss her goodnight! It cuts both ways. She didn't tuck her kid in for nap either, or fix her lunch, or want to spend time before getting the daughter handed off on her time. The kid wants both her parents involved not just one or the other. Instead she has these two yahoos playing hot potato.

There’s a huge difference between lunch and a goodnight kiss. No one really loves to make lunch for their kid—we do it because we have to. But a goodnight kiss? I want to kiss my kids goodnight, and miss it terribly when I’m traveling. The fact that he doesn’t want to…well, it says something about his relationship to his child.

That's what I think about a mother who shoos her kid away and tells her she will see her after the nap. Poor kid to end up with these two parents. Peas in a pod.

But she has a parent who will make her lunch. Anyone can make a kid lunch. Lunch isn’t a kiss. Mom’s kiss isn’t the same as Dad’s kiss.

Oh stop it. Both people can be wrong here. Dad may be slightly more wrong but neither look good. And the kiss stuff is just ick. No need to go there.

I have no idea what you mean by the kiss stuff being “ick.” Are you reading something sexual into this? If so, you’re the pervert, not me. What a disgusting person you are.

Go on then weirdo, tell us why mom's kiss is better than dad's kiss?

If you actually read for comprehension, you would see that I said mom’s kiss and dad’s kiss aren’t the same. Like, you can’t just substitute one or the other—you need both. Whereas who TF cares who makes the tuna fish sandwich. It’s just a sandwich, it’s not a personal expression of love.

Moron, most people don't live in some perfect world where mom and dad are both available to read, cuddle, simultaneously kiss, and snuggle one child in an elaborate bedtime routine every night. Come out of the clouds and focus on the bigger picture here.

I'll say this flat out: if you don't have the "availability" to kiss your child before you leave town for a week, you are a shitty parent with f*cked up priorities. No one is talking about an elaborate bedtime routine here, so don't you move the goalposts. OP's husband didn't bother to say goodbye and kiss his child before he left town. Doesn't he even want to? He seems like he has psychological problems.

I feel the same way about someone too lazy to help with the nap or lunch. Sorry kiddo it's all about meeeee right now. That person isn't right in the head. They both suck. Is that clear enough? That person doesn't get to be mad at their spouse for modeling their behavior.

No, it's not clear. Anyone, including a nanny, uncle, or neighbor, can make a kid lunch. Hell, the short order cook at your local Friendly's can do that. There's no substitute for a parent's affection. That you can't see the qualitative difference is astounding. I also still don't understand people who don't want to give their kid a kiss. Honestly, when I snuggle my kids, it's as much for me as for them.

It's astounding that you can actually push a child away and say "not now" and pretend that's not damaging. Not coming into her room to kiss good night is not as obvious and hurtful. That kid had no idea dad was going away for a week.

Show me where OP said she "pushed a child away." Show me.

You can push someone away with your words. You know that don't you? I didn't say physically shoved. But keep on playing your game where you think a kid is devastated that dad forgot to kiss her but had no reaction to mom figuratively pushing her away, creating distance, and not wanting to be with her. You're blinded by your own bias, twisting yourself into knots to defend the indefensible.

Actually, that’s what YOU’RE doing. Acquire some self-awareness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please divorce him, he’s suffered enough. Money isn’t everything.

Oh, yes, he’s SUCH a victim.

You’re absurd.

This is a man who graciously took his child to his mothers and was, understandably, too sleepy to make lunch. OP should quit the bean counting, we shouldn’t expect that men respect their wives’ free time enough to take on parenting responsibilities. So what if they agreed upon it? Everyone knows that if you want your husband to make your toddler lunch you are a terrible mother and hate your child. This poor man deserves to be with a woman who understands this so he’s not pressured into doing household tasks that only women enjoy and are naturally already good at.

Also, my husband and I split tasks perfectly evenly with no issue so it’s weird that OP is dealing with this. I’ve never heard of women doing more household labor, sounds fake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Things of note:
-I would never quit my job. For one, I like making my own money. I would never make myself financial dependent on a man. Also, I have carried the health benefits for our family for the last 6 years. And I don’t trust my husband in terms of job stability
-Guess what I also often do on my “sat am free time”…other than working out for an hour and maybe reading for 30min or so. Grocery shopping. Trader Joe’s. Amazon returns to the ups store. Target runs for earth day items for dd’s school. Aka things for my f-ing family that aren’t even on dh’s radar or he assumes/expects that I will handle. Because I always have.
- I didn’t throw a tantrum or yell in front of dd. I literally said: “excited to play with you all afternoon after your nap” I told my dh: “you got nap and lunch” it was my dh who said “me? Why would I do it?” And I said why wouldn’t you. What did I do after dd got up from her nap? Took her to the museum, had a wonderful day. What did dh do? Pack for his work trip, leave the house for a few hours, and didn’t see dd for the rest of the day. He left in the morning for a week long trip. And didn’t see dd after giving her lunch and putting her down for nap. Dd woke up asking where daddy was. I said he went on an airplane for work and will come back. “Why didn’t he kiss me goodnight?” Now talk to me about parental engagement and involvement.
- as he packed, I told dh I was sorry his feelings were hurt but that I needed to talk to him about what happened. His reply “I vented and I think I’m good now.” He has texted me from his work trip as if nothing happened. Sending pictures of meals at restaurants and telling me about the weather. Literally as if nothing happened.

I haven’t left bc I think custody wouid be a nightmare and the finances of two homes an even bigger one.

OP, you clearly LOATHE your husband. Everything you’ve said about him reeks of bitterness and dislike. I think you should stop complaining and just get a divorce

+1

DH didn’t think it was a big deal because it wasn’t a big deal. OP is a high maintenance drama queen who acts like spending time with her daughter is like scrubbing toilets.

DH didn’t want to spend that time with his daughter either after passing her off to his mom all morning. Yet you only bash the OP.

But OP was mad at what he didn't do on her time. He didn't even kiss her goodnight! It cuts both ways. She didn't tuck her kid in for nap either, or fix her lunch, or want to spend time before getting the daughter handed off on her time. The kid wants both her parents involved not just one or the other. Instead she has these two yahoos playing hot potato.

There’s a huge difference between lunch and a goodnight kiss. No one really loves to make lunch for their kid—we do it because we have to. But a goodnight kiss? I want to kiss my kids goodnight, and miss it terribly when I’m traveling. The fact that he doesn’t want to…well, it says something about his relationship to his child.

That's what I think about a mother who shoos her kid away and tells her she will see her after the nap. Poor kid to end up with these two parents. Peas in a pod.

But she has a parent who will make her lunch. Anyone can make a kid lunch. Lunch isn’t a kiss. Mom’s kiss isn’t the same as Dad’s kiss.

Oh stop it. Both people can be wrong here. Dad may be slightly more wrong but neither look good. And the kiss stuff is just ick. No need to go there.

I have no idea what you mean by the kiss stuff being “ick.” Are you reading something sexual into this? If so, you’re the pervert, not me. What a disgusting person you are.

Go on then weirdo, tell us why mom's kiss is better than dad's kiss?

If you actually read for comprehension, you would see that I said mom’s kiss and dad’s kiss aren’t the same. Like, you can’t just substitute one or the other—you need both. Whereas who TF cares who makes the tuna fish sandwich. It’s just a sandwich, it’s not a personal expression of love.

Disagree. At that age, time and proximity is what they want - those are acts of love. Choosing not to see your kid until 3pm+ each Saturday is not an act of love.

+100. That poor child.

Fast forward 30 years and OP will be wondering why her dear daughter never calls or visits

I do think OP is being too rigid but no one, NO ONE, would ever say this about a father who golfs every Saturday til 3.

I’m not rigid and, frankly, I do do more child rearing related labor (meals, cleanup, bathtimes, bedtimes etc). It’s tough because a lot of partners won’t carry their weight unless the other person is rigid and strict. It’s a lose lose where you pick up extra slack to maintain peace and present as a good wife and mom but at the expense of your own time or you set rigid expectations and get your free time but with the perception that you are controlling and uncooperative.

I agree with your point that these challenges are mainly dealt with by women and that there are lower expectations for dads. I hope things continue changing for the better!

You don’t “hope” things continue to change for the better. You, as a woman, STAND UP to the child’s father and insist he do his share. That’s how it changes, family by family, and the next generation sees that Dad sitting on his ass watching TV or plating videogames while mom does everything isn’t how the world is expected to work anymore.