What do you think about Upper Schools telling parents to butt out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a teacher, and I have almost 20 years of experience.

The situation has radically changed over the past several years. While most parents are reasonable and perfectly pleasant, there is a small, crazed minority of parents who have ruined the system for the majority of teachers, students, and parents. These policies are in place because that is the only way to ensure that teachers are not harrassed, slandered, and attacked by a minority of (very, VERY) badly-behaved parents.

I have witnessed a bevy of moms make it their single purpose to humiliate and destroy the careers of colleagues. I have witnessed parents cursing and shouting at colleagues. I have directly experienced parents who send me abusive emails before they have bothered to learn the facts of a situation, and parents who cannot conceal their disgust and scorn for teachers in general, and who believe and act as if every teacher is an enemy and peasant who must be bullied. Again, this is not the majority of parents, but when the minority of badly-behaved parents is allowed to run rampant, it destroys the atmosphere for all teachers at the school, as well as the well-being and possibly the career of the teacher receiving the brunt of the abuse. I do not think any other working professional routinely endures the insults and abuse teachers receive. I really don't.

I agree that constructing a wall between parent and teacher is not the ideal way to support students. But I also don't see any alternative. I don't think it is possible to fully understand just how bad some parents behave toward teachers unless you have witnessed this.

For the record, I have a track record of strong AP scores and great relationships with students and parents. Most of the teachers I have seen abused by parents were perfectly competent as well (not all, but even with weaker teachers, abusing them doesn't improve the situation).

I don't know what the solution is here. But I suggest that rather than blaming the school for these unpleasant policies, you look toward the few badly-behaved parents who have ruined things for us all.

I’m a teacher too. I can handle parents because I’m organized, fair, timely and transparent. It is infuriating to pay $50k a year for teachers who barely do their jobs. And anyone who thinks students should suffer because teachers need to be protected from a handful of mean mommies probably shouldn’t be teaching.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kids attend two Big 3s and both have the philosophy that parents should not be involved in any conversations between students and teachers/coaches.

When teachers/coaches are snarky, inappropriate, or even verbally abusive, the students are supposed to handle it themselves. Students are even punished if parents get involved.

Supposedly this is all in the name of student empowerment but say what you will even a 18 yr old is not on the same footing as a teacher or coach. This seems a perfect way for teachers/coaches to avoid accountability.

On the flip side I get that some parents are privileged PITAs and whine over every little thing making teachers’ lives a misery and wasting their time.

How can schools find a better way than telling students and parents in a blanket way that parents should not be involved in conversations with teachers/coaches?

LOL! Sidwell again and Bryan!

Problem is they do not tell the Board Members to butt out so there is an imbalance. The board members and their very opinionated spouses tend to have a lot of say and input in every single thing at the school (including changing dates of events to suit their schedule) while the regular non vip parents have zero say.

HOS should not have their main role be fundraising. What happens is they end up spending all of their time with the board members and those vips donating large sums instead of getting to know all of the students. So embarrassing after a game last year and the HOS was sucking up to the large donors and vips kids at the game and barely spoke to the rest of the students on the team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a teacher, and I have almost 20 years of experience.

The situation has radically changed over the past several years. While most parents are reasonable and perfectly pleasant, there is a small, crazed minority of parents who have ruined the system for the majority of teachers, students, and parents. These policies are in place because that is the only way to ensure that teachers are not harrassed, slandered, and attacked by a minority of (very, VERY) badly-behaved parents.

I have witnessed a bevy of moms make it their single purpose to humiliate and destroy the careers of colleagues. I have witnessed parents cursing and shouting at colleagues. I have directly experienced parents who send me abusive emails before they have bothered to learn the facts of a situation, and parents who cannot conceal their disgust and scorn for teachers in general, and who believe and act as if every teacher is an enemy and peasant who must be bullied. Again, this is not the majority of parents, but when the minority of badly-behaved parents is allowed to run rampant, it destroys the atmosphere for all teachers at the school, as well as the well-being and possibly the career of the teacher receiving the brunt of the abuse. I do not think any other working professional routinely endures the insults and abuse teachers receive. I really don't.

I agree that constructing a wall between parent and teacher is not the ideal way to support students. But I also don't see any alternative. I don't think it is possible to fully understand just how bad some parents behave toward teachers unless you have witnessed this.

For the record, I have a track record of strong AP scores and great relationships with students and parents. Most of the teachers I have seen abused by parents were perfectly competent as well (not all, but even with weaker teachers, abusing them doesn't improve the situation).

I don't know what the solution is here. But I suggest that rather than blaming the school for these unpleasant policies, you look toward the few badly-behaved parents who have ruined things for us all.

I’m a teacher too. I can handle parents because I’m organized, fair, timely and transparent. It is infuriating to pay $50k a year for teachers who barely do their jobs. And anyone who thinks students should suffer because teachers need to be protected from a handful of mean mommies probably shouldn’t be teaching.

Let me guess, you’re the teacher who teaches 1 or 2 classes and is fawned over because your grandfather/mother has a building on campus named after him.

None of my colleagues barely does their job. This sounds like something parents say to each other at cocktail parties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our kids attend two Big 3s and both have the philosophy that parents should not be involved in any conversations between students and teachers/coaches.

When teachers/coaches are snarky, inappropriate, or even verbally abusive, the students are supposed to handle it themselves. Students are even punished if parents get involved.

Supposedly this is all in the name of student empowerment but say what you will even a 18 yr old is not on the same footing as a teacher or coach. This seems a perfect way for teachers/coaches to avoid accountability.

On the flip side I get that some parents are privileged PITAs and whine over every little thing making teachers’ lives a misery and wasting their time.

How can schools find a better way than telling students and parents in a blanket way that parents should not be involved in conversations with teachers/coaches?

I assume it’s sfs and gds and it’s a way to avoid accountability for their decisions and behaviors, as a school and individual teacher.

Didn’t have this dynamic in NYC private schools nor where I grew up.

It’s too bad, since the same misfires keep repeating and no improvement. Year after year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s appropriate. 3 kids through high school, one remaining. Outside Parent Teacher conferences, I never communicated with any teacher. My kids did not have any accommodations, so could see communication of that was the case.

I’d like some lower school and intermediate /middle school student parent perspectives. They have the same policy there- parents out of the picture.

My kid got dragged into a Restorative Justice session when witnessing bullying. Parents were never told, or at least we weren’t.

A couple months later when my kid was the target of the same bully and not wanting to go to school, she disclosed this mtg that happened a couple months ago.

Apparently she only said some benign thing at the mtg, in front of the bully snd whole group since that’s how the guidance counselor rolls, about how everyone should be nice. And then the retaliation game began.

First I asked teacher wtf was going on. Silence; everyone is nice here. Then we had to go to guidance counselor, got total shock from her. Lastly I ran into some parents who all had issues with the same bully bullying their kid. Took months to figure that out with zero help, only zero communication, from the lower school.

And they had the gall to say, when we requested distance with next years homeroom, you should have told us right away!

[Anonymous]

Honestly, I'm fine with it at our Big 3 school. I like and trust the teachers and administrators. If I didn't, we wouldn't send our kids there.

I've seen too many of my fellow parents behaving poorly, intervening when they shouldn't, treating their kids like fragile flowers, and speaking rudely to school staff even when their child is in the wrong.

I'm not going to be there 24/7 when the kids are off to college and adulthood, so they might as well start learning how to get through life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And the teachers will retaliate. The students know this and the teachers know they know it. The kids keep quiet because they know their grades will suffer and most leave the school vowing never to return except for a handful of students who the administration fawns over.

I don't know if the teachers will retaliate but I do know the kids "think/fear" they will. Another reason why this all leads to a toxic culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And the teachers will retaliate. The students know this and the teachers know they know it. The kids keep quiet because they know their grades will suffer and most leave the school vowing never to return except for a handful of students who the administration fawns over.

That sounds like a fun school. Why do so many parents keep making their kids go there?

Because they did not know before enrolling. Once you are there, it is difficult to move to another school, esp in high school.

This ^^

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kids attend two Big 3s and both have the philosophy that parents should not be involved in any conversations between students and teachers/coaches.

When teachers/coaches are snarky, inappropriate, or even verbally abusive, the students are supposed to handle it themselves. Students are even punished if parents get involved.

Supposedly this is all in the name of student empowerment but say what you will even a 18 yr old is not on the same footing as a teacher or coach. This seems a perfect way for teachers/coaches to avoid accountability.

On the flip side I get that some parents are privileged PITAs and whine over every little thing making teachers’ lives a misery and wasting their time.

How can schools find a better way than telling students and parents in a blanket way that parents should not be involved in conversations with teachers/coaches?

LOL! Sidwell again and Bryan!

Problem is they do not tell the Board Members to butt out so there is an imbalance. The board members and their very opinionated spouses tend to have a lot of say and input in every single thing at the school (including changing dates of events to suit their schedule) while the regular non vip parents have zero say.

HOS should not have their main role be fundraising. What happens is they end up spending all of their time with the board members and those vips donating large sums instead of getting to know all of the students. So embarrassing after a game last year and the HOS was sucking up to the large donors and vips kids at the game and barely spoke to the rest of the students on the team.

But that really is their main job. That said - they should learn to not favor certain kids or families and to be a better leader for all students.

[Anonymous]

Sometimes “parents out of the picture schools” happen, because either the teachers and/or administration and/or parents (yes, we can be the problem too) are not skilled in cross-functional collaboration. To me, this is a big issue, because cross-functional collaboration is a critical skill and the lack of it can cause all kinds of life limitations (which are visible in those who lack it).

My kids are at River School in part because the teachers and administration are very strong at teaching interpersonal skills. Even parents who need help are given resources to improve their skills (some are flat out asked take parent training). These skills don’t become important until applying for jobs, and then suddenly you need them to advance in management. I would not sacrifice teaching them in childhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s appropriate. 3 kids through high school, one remaining. Outside Parent Teacher conferences, I never communicated with any teacher. My kids did not have any accommodations, so could see communication of that was the case.

I’d like some lower school and intermediate /middle school student parent perspectives. They have the same policy there- parents out of the picture.

My kid got dragged into a Restorative Justice session when witnessing bullying. Parents were never told, or at least we weren’t.

A couple months later when my kid was the target of the same bully and not wanting to go to school, she disclosed this mtg that happened a couple months ago.

Apparently she only said some benign thing at the mtg, in front of the bully snd whole group since that’s how the guidance counselor rolls, about how everyone should be nice. And then the retaliation game began.

First I asked teacher wtf was going on. Silence; everyone is nice here. Then we had to go to guidance counselor, got total shock from her. Lastly I ran into some parents who all had issues with the same bully bullying their kid. Took months to figure that out with zero help, only zero communication, from the lower school.

And they had the gall to say, when we requested distance with next years homeroom, you should have told us right away!

Will you keep your child at the school for US?

[Anonymous]

What difference does it make to you whether PP stays or leaves for US?

[Anonymous]

I am interested because people say (like the PP above) that even though they *and their child* are unhappy at their school, they didn’t know how the school operates when they joined and they can’t leave because it’s too late. The child is in US and it would be disruptive, esp to their college ambitions, etc.

This parent is fully aware of how the school operates. Will they choose to stay?

[Anonymous]

You just laid out the quandary that PP faces and I agree that it’s a potentially tough situation. That said, I’m interested in knowing why does it matter to you which way things end for their family?

[Anonymous]

Because we are in the same spot.