DDOT's latest plan to destroy traffic, Georgia Avenue edition

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:These discussions are always completely ruined by the monomaniacal NIMBYs. Can we have an actual discussion about it?

One caveat: they're not NIMBYs. They don't want bus lanes or bike lanes or anything that might inconvenience driving, anywhere. They are opposed to such things everywhere.

To be fair, my sense isn't that these people are opposed to bike lanes, per se. What they're opposed to is installing them on Georgia Ave. specifically and the resulting loss of driving lanes.

Perhaps more broadly, since we're seeing similar resistance to bike lanes taking over driving lanes on CT and SD Ave, is there's an argument to be made that bike lanes don't belong on main arterial streets. One can make that argument while not being opposed to bike lanes overall.

They are opposed to installing bike lanes on arterial streets that they drive along. And they are opposed to installing bike lanes on side streets they drive or park along. And they find common cause with others who oppose bike lanes on arterial and side streets that others bike and park along. But they are probably OK with bike lanes in Oslo, Copenhagen, and Amsterdam, should they wish to vacation there. So I guess that makes them not opposed to bike lanes “overall”? OK.

is this supposed to be a gotcha? People have preferences that are not yours. That is fine. Are we supposed to be concerned that you do not always get your way? You do not care if we get our way, so why should we care about your wants?

People have preferences and it’s usually much more productive if people are straightforward about their preferences rather than trying to cloak them with ridiculous arguments about how bus lanes will cause kids to die.

+100. I wish we could have rational arguments about this.

It's pretty straightforward.

1. Hundreds of thousands of people drive on Georgia Avenue every day
2. Making half the lanes on Georgia Avenue bus only will create total gridlock
3. Drivers don't like gridlock. Those hundreds of thousands of drivers will pour into every side street in Ward 4
4. Ward 4 is home to the most number of small children in the city
5. Using Waze, drivers will speed through all those nooks and crannies of Ward 4 because they are trying to make up the time lost by not being able to take Georgia
6. The city does not have the capacity to build enough speed bumps quickly enough to prevent lots of children from dying


This isn't hard to understand, unless you're just really dumb, which, at this point, we can't rule out.

This is the worst pro-car propaganda I've seen in a minute. Drivers are such monsters that they will kill kids rather than take a few minutes longer to get to work? It comes across like a hostage taking scenario.

You would be better served arguing that DC won't enforce the bus lane, and won't even bother with signal priority so drivers will just use the bus lane anyway and clog things up.

It's "pro-car propaganda" to point out that drivers will avoid Georgia at all costs if this proposal goes through, and will dart through the quiet streets of Ward 4 (where tens of thousands of children live) in search of a shortcut and that will lead to a lot more accidents? You not only don't have a good response, you don't even have a coherent response.

But keep posting away. Your arguments are terrible, but you do keep this thread at the top of the DCUM leaderboard and the more people learn of this DDOT proposal, the more opposition there will be to it. Parents tend to go on high alert when there's a threat to their kids.

DRIVERS will "dart"? Huh. Sounds dangerous. Someone really ought to do something about those drivers.

If you sincerely thought this was about the safety of children, you would support changes to Georgia AND changes to "the quiet streets of Ward 4 (where tens of thousands of children live)". But you don't. Instead, you actually oppose both of those things. Because it's actually not about safety at all, for you.

See No. 6:

It's pretty straightforward.

1. Hundreds of thousands of people drive on Georgia Avenue every day
2. Making half the lanes on Georgia Avenue bus only will create total gridlock
3. Drivers don't like gridlock. Those hundreds of thousands of drivers will pour into every side street in Ward 4
4. Ward 4 is home to the most number of small children in the city
5. Using Waze, drivers will speed through all those nooks and crannies of Ward 4 because they are trying to make up the time lost by not being able to take Georgia
6. The city does not have the capacity to build enough speed bumps quickly enough to prevent lots of children from dying


This isn't hard to understand, unless you're just really dumb, which, at this point, we can't rule out.

As you can see by the incessant lying about the child who was killed on Kennedy street, dead kids are feature, not a bug, of this DDOT plan.

This plan puts children in imminent danger, and when they're inevitably killed, DDOT will then use that to justify further targeting people who drive. DDOT is the arsonist and the firefighter here.

I have to believe that it's only one poster who keeps posting that the four-year-old killed at Georgia and Kennedy wasn't killed at Georgia and Kennedy.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Ward 4 has the highest concentration of children under the age of 10 in the city. Some of them will inevitably be killed as a direct result of this DDOT proposal. We all know it will send tens of thousands of cars through side streets of Ward 4 to avoid the gridlock on Georgia that this plan will create.

There's basically no children on Georgia Avenue (Georgia Avenue is mostly liquor stores and other businesses), but go a few blocks east or west and there's a million of them. A lot of young children.

It's hard to imagine how this plan would *not* result in many children being killed. I would think someone will sue to stop this truly insane idea.

The status quo has already resulted in at least one actual - not hypothetical - child being actually - not hypothetically - killed.

On a different street. After 16th Street was redesigned.

The child was killed at the intersection of Kennedy and Georgia. The family was crossing Kennedy at Georgia - just like you would do if you were walking along Georgia and needed to get to the other side of Kennedy. And yet you keep insisting that the intersection of Kennedy and Georgia has nothing to do with Georgia.

they crossed from one side of Kennedy to the other side of Kennedy. Breaking the law in the process, it's probably worth noting.

https://ddot.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/ddot/publication/attachments/bike_ped_traffic_reg_summary_0_0.pdf

"If a pedestrian crosses a roadway AT ANY POINT OTHER THAN A MARKED CROSSWALK, or within an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection, THE PEDESTRIAN SHALL YEILD THE RIGHT OF WAY TO ANY VEHICLE."

At Georgia.

Is it open season on four-year-old children who break traffic laws, now? Are you the one expressing concern about the safety of children on "side streets"?

Not PP but what are you talking about re: “open season on 4 year olds”. The point is that crossing a road can be dangerous. That is true especially when Jay walking. It is parents’ responsibility to look out for 4 year olds and not let them run into the street.

You know, it's interesting, because I would say it's drivers' responsibility to look out for 4 year olds and not hit them, and I would also say it's DDOT's responsibility to make crossing a road safe.

A person might infer from your post that you actually are not concerned about the safety of children, after all.

The primary person charged with ensuring the safety of the deceased boy did not do that, for whatever reason. No one is blaming a four year old He however was accompanied by an adult who had an absolute duty to keep him from harm.

Can you be sure that the child would still be alive if he had crossed the street on a crosswalk? I can’t. People are killed in DC every year while crossing with a cross signal on a crosswalk. The most recent person to suffer this fate, I believe, was Patricia Bullinger. She died after being struck by a vehicle while crossing Foxhall Road.

Can be sure the child would be alive if they were in an air balloon instead? In the world of hypotheticals anything can be true.

You want us to follow your philosphy and preferences and editcs, and think like you, but we don't have to. No matter if you have a response to every post that is against your opinion. Volume of words doesn't have the power of mind control.

You are maintaining that the child died because his feet were not touching white paint as if that is what is getting pedestrians killed on DC streets. I am telling you, with reference to specific cases, that this not what is getting pedestrians killed on DC streets. Please don’t try to tell us again how concerned you are about the safety of all the children who live along the side streets or anyone’s safety for that matter.

He jaywalked and his guardian was not holding his hand / he moved in a separate direction from the adult.

Another person blaming a four-year-old for getting killed by a car.

I'm not PP but if it was the car's fault they would have charged the driver. If a kid darts out into traffic unexpectedly there may not be anything the driver can do; sounds like that's what happened here. It's not a 4 year old's "fault" but it is the fault of the adult that should have been supervising the 4 year old to ensure they didn't dart into traffic.

Seriously it's like some of you people never drive. I've had people dart out into the road mid-block. It's scary - and all the more so if it's dark out (I don't know the time of day of the accident w/ the 4 year old; i'm just saying pedestrians seem oblivious to how invisible they are when it's dark and they cut out mid-block into a road.)

Slower speeds and less dangerous car design would turn that momentary mistake into a broken leg instead of a dead 4 yr old.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:These discussions are always completely ruined by the monomaniacal NIMBYs. Can we have an actual discussion about it?

One caveat: they're not NIMBYs. They don't want bus lanes or bike lanes or anything that might inconvenience driving, anywhere. They are opposed to such things everywhere.

To be fair, my sense isn't that these people are opposed to bike lanes, per se. What they're opposed to is installing them on Georgia Ave. specifically and the resulting loss of driving lanes.

Perhaps more broadly, since we're seeing similar resistance to bike lanes taking over driving lanes on CT and SD Ave, is there's an argument to be made that bike lanes don't belong on main arterial streets. One can make that argument while not being opposed to bike lanes overall.

They are opposed to installing bike lanes on arterial streets that they drive along. And they are opposed to installing bike lanes on side streets they drive or park along. And they find common cause with others who oppose bike lanes on arterial and side streets that others bike and park along. But they are probably OK with bike lanes in Oslo, Copenhagen, and Amsterdam, should they wish to vacation there. So I guess that makes them not opposed to bike lanes “overall”? OK.

is this supposed to be a gotcha? People have preferences that are not yours. That is fine. Are we supposed to be concerned that you do not always get your way? You do not care if we get our way, so why should we care about your wants?

People have preferences and it’s usually much more productive if people are straightforward about their preferences rather than trying to cloak them with ridiculous arguments about how bus lanes will cause kids to die.

+100. I wish we could have rational arguments about this.

It's pretty straightforward.

1. Hundreds of thousands of people drive on Georgia Avenue every day
2. Making half the lanes on Georgia Avenue bus only will create total gridlock
3. Drivers don't like gridlock. Those hundreds of thousands of drivers will pour into every side street in Ward 4
4. Ward 4 is home to the most number of small children in the city
5. Using Waze, drivers will speed through all those nooks and crannies of Ward 4 because they are trying to make up the time lost by not being able to take Georgia
6. The city does not have the capacity to build enough speed bumps quickly enough to prevent lots of children from dying


This isn't hard to understand, unless you're just really dumb, which, at this point, we can't rule out.

This is the worst pro-car propaganda I've seen in a minute. Drivers are such monsters that they will kill kids rather than take a few minutes longer to get to work? It comes across like a hostage taking scenario.

You would be better served arguing that DC won't enforce the bus lane, and won't even bother with signal priority so drivers will just use the bus lane anyway and clog things up.

It's "pro-car propaganda" to point out that drivers will avoid Georgia at all costs if this proposal goes through, and will dart through the quiet streets of Ward 4 (where tens of thousands of children live) in search of a shortcut and that will lead to a lot more accidents? You not only don't have a good response, you don't even have a coherent response.

But keep posting away. Your arguments are terrible, but you do keep this thread at the top of the DCUM leaderboard and the more people learn of this DDOT proposal, the more opposition there will be to it. Parents tend to go on high alert when there's a threat to their kids.

DRIVERS will "dart"? Huh. Sounds dangerous. Someone really ought to do something about those drivers.

If you sincerely thought this was about the safety of children, you would support changes to Georgia AND changes to "the quiet streets of Ward 4 (where tens of thousands of children live)". But you don't. Instead, you actually oppose both of those things. Because it's actually not about safety at all, for you.

See No. 6:

It's pretty straightforward.

1. Hundreds of thousands of people drive on Georgia Avenue every day
2. Making half the lanes on Georgia Avenue bus only will create total gridlock
3. Drivers don't like gridlock. Those hundreds of thousands of drivers will pour into every side street in Ward 4
4. Ward 4 is home to the most number of small children in the city
5. Using Waze, drivers will speed through all those nooks and crannies of Ward 4 because they are trying to make up the time lost by not being able to take Georgia
6. The city does not have the capacity to build enough speed bumps quickly enough to prevent lots of children from dying


This isn't hard to understand, unless you're just really dumb, which, at this point, we can't rule out.

The whole "City can't build speed bumps" is an entirely false premise. They could have every parallel street double or triple bumped in the time it would take to restripe the lanes.

And anyway, why are you so mad? GA Ave only has one travel lane these days. There's always a car parked in a travel lane. At least a bus lane would move people, and possibly even get them out of their cars.

Because we don't want our kids killed?

The problem with Georgia Avenue is double parking. The simplest thing to do, that would benefit everyone, is to enforce existing laws against double parking.

If you don't want your kids killed, then you should support speed humps, not oppose them.

The simplest thing to do on Georgia Avenue, that would benefit everyone, is to build a bus lane with automated enforcement.

Georgia Avenue is one of the most important thoroughfares in the city. We should not be diverting tens of thousands of people every single day into all the little streets of Ward 4 where so many little kids live. This plan is so completely insane it is hard to believe it is actually being considered.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:These discussions are always completely ruined by the monomaniacal NIMBYs. Can we have an actual discussion about it?

One caveat: they're not NIMBYs. They don't want bus lanes or bike lanes or anything that might inconvenience driving, anywhere. They are opposed to such things everywhere.

To be fair, my sense isn't that these people are opposed to bike lanes, per se. What they're opposed to is installing them on Georgia Ave. specifically and the resulting loss of driving lanes.

Perhaps more broadly, since we're seeing similar resistance to bike lanes taking over driving lanes on CT and SD Ave, is there's an argument to be made that bike lanes don't belong on main arterial streets. One can make that argument while not being opposed to bike lanes overall.

They are opposed to installing bike lanes on arterial streets that they drive along. And they are opposed to installing bike lanes on side streets they drive or park along. And they find common cause with others who oppose bike lanes on arterial and side streets that others bike and park along. But they are probably OK with bike lanes in Oslo, Copenhagen, and Amsterdam, should they wish to vacation there. So I guess that makes them not opposed to bike lanes “overall”? OK.

is this supposed to be a gotcha? People have preferences that are not yours. That is fine. Are we supposed to be concerned that you do not always get your way? You do not care if we get our way, so why should we care about your wants?

People have preferences and it’s usually much more productive if people are straightforward about their preferences rather than trying to cloak them with ridiculous arguments about how bus lanes will cause kids to die.

+100. I wish we could have rational arguments about this.

It's pretty straightforward.

1. Hundreds of thousands of people drive on Georgia Avenue every day
2. Making half the lanes on Georgia Avenue bus only will create total gridlock
3. Drivers don't like gridlock. Those hundreds of thousands of drivers will pour into every side street in Ward 4
4. Ward 4 is home to the most number of small children in the city
5. Using Waze, drivers will speed through all those nooks and crannies of Ward 4 because they are trying to make up the time lost by not being able to take Georgia
6. The city does not have the capacity to build enough speed bumps quickly enough to prevent lots of children from dying


This isn't hard to understand, unless you're just really dumb, which, at this point, we can't rule out.

This is the worst pro-car propaganda I've seen in a minute. Drivers are such monsters that they will kill kids rather than take a few minutes longer to get to work? It comes across like a hostage taking scenario.

You would be better served arguing that DC won't enforce the bus lane, and won't even bother with signal priority so drivers will just use the bus lane anyway and clog things up.

It's "pro-car propaganda" to point out that drivers will avoid Georgia at all costs if this proposal goes through, and will dart through the quiet streets of Ward 4 (where tens of thousands of children live) in search of a shortcut and that will lead to a lot more accidents? You not only don't have a good response, you don't even have a coherent response.

But keep posting away. Your arguments are terrible, but you do keep this thread at the top of the DCUM leaderboard and the more people learn of this DDOT proposal, the more opposition there will be to it. Parents tend to go on high alert when there's a threat to their kids.

DRIVERS will "dart"? Huh. Sounds dangerous. Someone really ought to do something about those drivers.

If you sincerely thought this was about the safety of children, you would support changes to Georgia AND changes to "the quiet streets of Ward 4 (where tens of thousands of children live)". But you don't. Instead, you actually oppose both of those things. Because it's actually not about safety at all, for you.

See No. 6:

It's pretty straightforward.

1. Hundreds of thousands of people drive on Georgia Avenue every day
2. Making half the lanes on Georgia Avenue bus only will create total gridlock
3. Drivers don't like gridlock. Those hundreds of thousands of drivers will pour into every side street in Ward 4
4. Ward 4 is home to the most number of small children in the city
5. Using Waze, drivers will speed through all those nooks and crannies of Ward 4 because they are trying to make up the time lost by not being able to take Georgia
6. The city does not have the capacity to build enough speed bumps quickly enough to prevent lots of children from dying


This isn't hard to understand, unless you're just really dumb, which, at this point, we can't rule out.

The whole "City can't build speed bumps" is an entirely false premise. They could have every parallel street double or triple bumped in the time it would take to restripe the lanes.

And anyway, why are you so mad? GA Ave only has one travel lane these days. There's always a car parked in a travel lane. At least a bus lane would move people, and possibly even get them out of their cars.

Because we don't want our kids killed?

The problem with Georgia Avenue is double parking. The simplest thing to do, that would benefit everyone, is to enforce existing laws against double parking.

If you don't want your kids killed, then you should support speed humps, not oppose them.

The simplest thing to do on Georgia Avenue, that would benefit everyone, is to build a bus lane with automated enforcement.

Georgia Avenue is one of the most important thoroughfares in the city. We should not be diverting tens of thousands of people every single day into all the little streets of Ward 4 where so many little kids live. This plan is so completely insane it is hard to believe it is actually being considered.

Why shouldn't we? Because the drivers are dangerous? The drivers are dangerous on Georgia Avenue too, and little kids live on Georgia Avenue too. Why is it acceptable for little kids on Georgia Avenue to be endangered by drivers? Why is it unacceptable to make the little streets of Ward 4 safe, through speeds humps etc?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These discussions are always completely ruined by the monomaniacal NIMBYs. Can we have an actual discussion about it?

One caveat: they're not NIMBYs. They don't want bus lanes or bike lanes or anything that might inconvenience driving, anywhere. They are opposed to such things everywhere.

To be fair, my sense isn't that these people are opposed to bike lanes, per se. What they're opposed to is installing them on Georgia Ave. specifically and the resulting loss of driving lanes.

Perhaps more broadly, since we're seeing similar resistance to bike lanes taking over driving lanes on CT and SD Ave, is there's an argument to be made that bike lanes don't belong on main arterial streets. One can make that argument while not being opposed to bike lanes overall.

They are opposed to installing bike lanes on arterial streets that they drive along. And they are opposed to installing bike lanes on side streets they drive or park along. And they find common cause with others who oppose bike lanes on arterial and side streets that others bike and park along. But they are probably OK with bike lanes in Oslo, Copenhagen, and Amsterdam, should they wish to vacation there. So I guess that makes them not opposed to bike lanes “overall”? OK.

is this supposed to be a gotcha? People have preferences that are not yours. That is fine. Are we supposed to be concerned that you do not always get your way? You do not care if we get our way, so why should we care about your wants?

People have preferences and it’s usually much more productive if people are straightforward about their preferences rather than trying to cloak them with ridiculous arguments about how bus lanes will cause kids to die.

+100. I wish we could have rational arguments about this.

It's pretty straightforward.

1. Hundreds of thousands of people drive on Georgia Avenue every day
2. Making half the lanes on Georgia Avenue bus only will create total gridlock
3. Drivers don't like gridlock. Those hundreds of thousands of drivers will pour into every side street in Ward 4
4. Ward 4 is home to the most number of small children in the city
5. Using Waze, drivers will speed through all those nooks and crannies of Ward 4 because they are trying to make up the time lost by not being able to take Georgia
6. The city does not have the capacity to build enough speed bumps quickly enough to prevent lots of children from dying


This isn't hard to understand, unless you're just really dumb, which, at this point, we can't rule out.

This is the worst pro-car propaganda I've seen in a minute. Drivers are such monsters that they will kill kids rather than take a few minutes longer to get to work? It comes across like a hostage taking scenario.

You would be better served arguing that DC won't enforce the bus lane, and won't even bother with signal priority so drivers will just use the bus lane anyway and clog things up.

It's "pro-car propaganda" to point out that drivers will avoid Georgia at all costs if this proposal goes through, and will dart through the quiet streets of Ward 4 (where tens of thousands of children live) in search of a shortcut and that will lead to a lot more accidents? You not only don't have a good response, you don't even have a coherent response.

But keep posting away. Your arguments are terrible, but you do keep this thread at the top of the DCUM leaderboard and the more people learn of this DDOT proposal, the more opposition there will be to it. Parents tend to go on high alert when there's a threat to their kids.

DRIVERS will "dart"? Huh. Sounds dangerous. Someone really ought to do something about those drivers.

If you sincerely thought this was about the safety of children, you would support changes to Georgia AND changes to "the quiet streets of Ward 4 (where tens of thousands of children live)". But you don't. Instead, you actually oppose both of those things. Because it's actually not about safety at all, for you.

See No. 6:

It's pretty straightforward.

1. Hundreds of thousands of people drive on Georgia Avenue every day
2. Making half the lanes on Georgia Avenue bus only will create total gridlock
3. Drivers don't like gridlock. Those hundreds of thousands of drivers will pour into every side street in Ward 4
4. Ward 4 is home to the most number of small children in the city
5. Using Waze, drivers will speed through all those nooks and crannies of Ward 4 because they are trying to make up the time lost by not being able to take Georgia
6. The city does not have the capacity to build enough speed bumps quickly enough to prevent lots of children from dying


This isn't hard to understand, unless you're just really dumb, which, at this point, we can't rule out.

The whole "City can't build speed bumps" is an entirely false premise. They could have every parallel street double or triple bumped in the time it would take to restripe the lanes.

And anyway, why are you so mad? GA Ave only has one travel lane these days. There's always a car parked in a travel lane. At least a bus lane would move people, and possibly even get them out of their cars.

Because we don't want our kids killed?

The problem with Georgia Avenue is double parking. The simplest thing to do, that would benefit everyone, is to enforce existing laws against double parking.

If you don't want your kids killed, then you should support speed humps, not oppose them.

The simplest thing to do on Georgia Avenue, that would benefit everyone, is to build a bus lane with automated enforcement.

Georgia Avenue is one of the most important thoroughfares in the city. We should not be diverting tens of thousands of people every single day into all the little streets of Ward 4 where so many little kids live. This plan is so completely insane it is hard to believe it is actually being considered.

Why shouldn't we? Because the drivers are dangerous? The drivers are dangerous on Georgia Avenue too, and little kids live on Georgia Avenue too. Why is it acceptable for little kids on Georgia Avenue to be endangered by drivers? Why is it unacceptable to make the little streets of Ward 4 safe, through speeds humps etc?

It sounds like you've never been on Georgia Avenue. I would hazard a guess that there are fewer little kids on Georgia Avenue than almost any other street in DC. It's pretty much an uninterrupted string of liquor stores and bodegas and car washes and places to get your tires changed.

[Anonymous]

As someone who is on Georgia almost every day, this plan is strange. Of all the Washingtonians who set foot on Georgia during a day, probably not one in a 100 takes the bus. It's pretty much just all cars.

What is the deal with this city wanting to created dedicated lanes to modes of transportation people don't really use? We have 150 miles of bike lanes for the city's approximately 150 bicyclists. We're going to create a bus lane on a street where only a tiny fraction of the people there using the street take the bus?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As someone who is on Georgia almost every day, this plan is strange. Of all the Washingtonians who set foot on Georgia during a day, probably not one in a 100 takes the bus. It's pretty much just all cars.

What is the deal with this city wanting to created dedicated lanes to modes of transportation people don't really use? We have 150 miles of bike lanes for the city's approximately 150 bicyclists. We're going to create a bus lane on a street where only a tiny fraction of the people there using the street take the bus?

As someone who is on Georgia almost every day, you are not aware of the many, many people who travel on Georgia by bus? That is strange.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:These discussions are always completely ruined by the monomaniacal NIMBYs. Can we have an actual discussion about it?

One caveat: they're not NIMBYs. They don't want bus lanes or bike lanes or anything that might inconvenience driving, anywhere. They are opposed to such things everywhere.

To be fair, my sense isn't that these people are opposed to bike lanes, per se. What they're opposed to is installing them on Georgia Ave. specifically and the resulting loss of driving lanes.

Perhaps more broadly, since we're seeing similar resistance to bike lanes taking over driving lanes on CT and SD Ave, is there's an argument to be made that bike lanes don't belong on main arterial streets. One can make that argument while not being opposed to bike lanes overall.

They are opposed to installing bike lanes on arterial streets that they drive along. And they are opposed to installing bike lanes on side streets they drive or park along. And they find common cause with others who oppose bike lanes on arterial and side streets that others bike and park along. But they are probably OK with bike lanes in Oslo, Copenhagen, and Amsterdam, should they wish to vacation there. So I guess that makes them not opposed to bike lanes “overall”? OK.

is this supposed to be a gotcha? People have preferences that are not yours. That is fine. Are we supposed to be concerned that you do not always get your way? You do not care if we get our way, so why should we care about your wants?

People have preferences and it’s usually much more productive if people are straightforward about their preferences rather than trying to cloak them with ridiculous arguments about how bus lanes will cause kids to die.

+100. I wish we could have rational arguments about this.

It's pretty straightforward.

1. Hundreds of thousands of people drive on Georgia Avenue every day
2. Making half the lanes on Georgia Avenue bus only will create total gridlock
3. Drivers don't like gridlock. Those hundreds of thousands of drivers will pour into every side street in Ward 4
4. Ward 4 is home to the most number of small children in the city
5. Using Waze, drivers will speed through all those nooks and crannies of Ward 4 because they are trying to make up the time lost by not being able to take Georgia
6. The city does not have the capacity to build enough speed bumps quickly enough to prevent lots of children from dying


This isn't hard to understand, unless you're just really dumb, which, at this point, we can't rule out.

This is the worst pro-car propaganda I've seen in a minute. Drivers are such monsters that they will kill kids rather than take a few minutes longer to get to work? It comes across like a hostage taking scenario.

You would be better served arguing that DC won't enforce the bus lane, and won't even bother with signal priority so drivers will just use the bus lane anyway and clog things up.

It's "pro-car propaganda" to point out that drivers will avoid Georgia at all costs if this proposal goes through, and will dart through the quiet streets of Ward 4 (where tens of thousands of children live) in search of a shortcut and that will lead to a lot more accidents? You not only don't have a good response, you don't even have a coherent response.

But keep posting away. Your arguments are terrible, but you do keep this thread at the top of the DCUM leaderboard and the more people learn of this DDOT proposal, the more opposition there will be to it. Parents tend to go on high alert when there's a threat to their kids.

DRIVERS will "dart"? Huh. Sounds dangerous. Someone really ought to do something about those drivers.

If you sincerely thought this was about the safety of children, you would support changes to Georgia AND changes to "the quiet streets of Ward 4 (where tens of thousands of children live)". But you don't. Instead, you actually oppose both of those things. Because it's actually not about safety at all, for you.

See No. 6:

It's pretty straightforward.

1. Hundreds of thousands of people drive on Georgia Avenue every day
2. Making half the lanes on Georgia Avenue bus only will create total gridlock
3. Drivers don't like gridlock. Those hundreds of thousands of drivers will pour into every side street in Ward 4
4. Ward 4 is home to the most number of small children in the city
5. Using Waze, drivers will speed through all those nooks and crannies of Ward 4 because they are trying to make up the time lost by not being able to take Georgia
6. The city does not have the capacity to build enough speed bumps quickly enough to prevent lots of children from dying


This isn't hard to understand, unless you're just really dumb, which, at this point, we can't rule out.

The whole "City can't build speed bumps" is an entirely false premise. They could have every parallel street double or triple bumped in the time it would take to restripe the lanes.

And anyway, why are you so mad? GA Ave only has one travel lane these days. There's always a car parked in a travel lane. At least a bus lane would move people, and possibly even get them out of their cars.

Because we don't want our kids killed?

The problem with Georgia Avenue is double parking. The simplest thing to do, that would benefit everyone, is to enforce existing laws against double parking.

If you don't want your kids killed, then you should support speed humps, not oppose them.

The simplest thing to do on Georgia Avenue, that would benefit everyone, is to build a bus lane with automated enforcement.

Georgia Avenue is one of the most important thoroughfares in the city. We should not be diverting tens of thousands of people every single day into all the little streets of Ward 4 where so many little kids live. This plan is so completely insane it is hard to believe it is actually being considered.

Why shouldn't we? Because the drivers are dangerous? The drivers are dangerous on Georgia Avenue too, and little kids live on Georgia Avenue too. Why is it acceptable for little kids on Georgia Avenue to be endangered by drivers? Why is it unacceptable to make the little streets of Ward 4 safe, through speeds humps etc?

It sounds like you've never been on Georgia Avenue. I would hazard a guess that there are fewer little kids on Georgia Avenue than almost any other street in DC. It's pretty much an uninterrupted string of liquor stores and bodegas and car washes and places to get your tires changed.

Yeah, you keep saying that. It wasn't true that last 15 times you said it, either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who is on Georgia almost every day, this plan is strange. Of all the Washingtonians who set foot on Georgia during a day, probably not one in a 100 takes the bus. It's pretty much just all cars.

What is the deal with this city wanting to created dedicated lanes to modes of transportation people don't really use? We have 150 miles of bike lanes for the city's approximately 150 bicyclists. We're going to create a bus lane on a street where only a tiny fraction of the people there using the street take the bus?

As someone who is on Georgia almost every day, you are not aware of the many, many people who travel on Georgia by bus? That is strange.

I was just on Georgia! Didn't see a single bus. Lots of traffic though for the middle of the day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As someone who is on Georgia almost every day, this plan is strange. Of all the Washingtonians who set foot on Georgia during a day, probably not one in a 100 takes the bus. It's pretty much just all cars.

What is the deal with this city wanting to created dedicated lanes to modes of transportation people don't really use? We have 150 miles of bike lanes for the city's approximately 150 bicyclists. We're going to create a bus lane on a street where only a tiny fraction of the people there using the street take the bus?

22,000 people take buses on Georgia Ave *every day.* That is 1/2 the people traveling on Georgia. It is the busiest bus corridor in DC.

https://ago-item-storage.s3.amazonaws.com/604a004ea0874e08be875c2eda2cfbdf/FAQs.pdf?X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjENr%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEaCXVzLWVhc3QtMSJHMEUCIQDTJtZylTcVyDE8RuINrBcBhWbin80B2D2GJD995wUi4QIgYzVkT9rXJZdFUjoc9cQYu%2Bolhi13EsLGuxBe1iuWqP0qtAUIMhAAGgw2MDQ3NTgxMDI2NjUiDME3OcyG6J0ANtZZRCqRBYQMWngcPj6ErP9CaQ%2FOJpr%2FJGGKehfT2l7TxMP1%2FWlNO0echg0JXnmmOz6HjtSQVgsHgnyOI9kQ7eEF7ItQAiP8XMWyCAfGtvDL8JFL3Uhahy2Zj3PfjIohzC3yW38kgZqODd%2BAsQX8MUIxyseOahs%2Bm68iQ2PnUCi56gH9i2BZXS3x926VPLaTzW7uuaNM1dmYTMWxoHloQO6GzJqi7CJkWATzJhrXP9eyjxT8UkHqXpGi3%2FxtttK%2BKPpgFbY2%2BnREeRZGJQg7CBSzyTbrekV9qi0vrfpZy%2BrDzBzaKlclU8uakaEBfHUPnhsB1Ugt0CPFpx9hERGp9DIHLo2%2BaMWmsog22vLbrTlTiDWlflkUeTKLUpo4mDrIuRQ7bLfapwixgDckUgJcK3EXEmSJx4NpFaIhm7IkEv61kmwmfBYos6DGXuZuOVM05bp1G2mAdPY6rzqTWHmGAhYcvHF%2B%2FrFtVJU9aXKGtGFB%2FWBd%2B1zTt1%2BVxZCOio9krJJ20tb22fbpQLv%2B2MZ%2FoxBvO%2FnDez4zbpRJflIODXXPhtJ1JQRCcFRO0oT%2B0i5a4djWsT%2FsTaj9JSPmmcDL%2BZ8kjSWseVjgZ8%2FacRFHaOcIe1nVGSiU%2BU73Zr7cKtohCXR6t67424a48Ufm4Vlzje338R5tj%2Bh14FKQaTXONqXxkvIBd%2BrIAeDXrNxC74wSTCTT23X3u2A9tO4OP5ZwZnSqmOl4xyb1a58fEjTIbRgEiRQIHqfv4B96w1zA1oFkD53KKD%2BJFO80btfven8w4a2Fa%2FJ8IHcliK9ADYT3wE6Sv%2FxO5Y00Mvquo%2BxsgCN7uYXZDXff%2BVoRK3ept9fFN0Wf1ZhhVe4PDobLKY2r3U02sIuVX7dEDzDFrpC4BjqxASjZEpFC668%2BbUTDQvJn56Zre2yCOegzuBJydimXxgs%2FhXIqJ6ERdRfyx8nuR80LbCiJ6CYRtQf6meAZyBeQzp8WQrkV8G92wMkVry5SM6vpy0s7ZIbIlVjQYiZU2wL7CbvGaQBOFWTJmw4N1V5uIEiY1fCTf41w8T0x69Ryx5UpbONKqTfw%2Fg5PP09R2pcrmISpnLWyl0JKUPH7QzQGQ%2FbNhySXWUOBKeMAr1a%2BHjqJ0g%3D%3D&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Date=20241007T180106Z&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAYZTTEKKEZGODYWHE%2F20241007%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Signature=c9e40009a9f4b058b221a019b001471e6e442f73f369d8737fe6ecfe55f4e44b

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who is on Georgia almost every day, this plan is strange. Of all the Washingtonians who set foot on Georgia during a day, probably not one in a 100 takes the bus. It's pretty much just all cars.

What is the deal with this city wanting to created dedicated lanes to modes of transportation people don't really use? We have 150 miles of bike lanes for the city's approximately 150 bicyclists. We're going to create a bus lane on a street where only a tiny fraction of the people there using the street take the bus?

As someone who is on Georgia almost every day, you are not aware of the many, many people who travel on Georgia by bus? That is strange.

Little known fact - the 70 and 79 put on invisibility cloaks for most of the route.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who is on Georgia almost every day, this plan is strange. Of all the Washingtonians who set foot on Georgia during a day, probably not one in a 100 takes the bus. It's pretty much just all cars.

What is the deal with this city wanting to created dedicated lanes to modes of transportation people don't really use? We have 150 miles of bike lanes for the city's approximately 150 bicyclists. We're going to create a bus lane on a street where only a tiny fraction of the people there using the street take the bus?

As someone who is on Georgia almost every day, you are not aware of the many, many people who travel on Georgia by bus? That is strange.

I was just on Georgia! Didn't see a single bus. Lots of traffic though for the middle of the day.

I was just on georgia too and saw cars speeding like maniacs and refusing to yield to ambulances!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who is on Georgia almost every day, this plan is strange. Of all the Washingtonians who set foot on Georgia during a day, probably not one in a 100 takes the bus. It's pretty much just all cars.

What is the deal with this city wanting to created dedicated lanes to modes of transportation people don't really use? We have 150 miles of bike lanes for the city's approximately 150 bicyclists. We're going to create a bus lane on a street where only a tiny fraction of the people there using the street take the bus?

As someone who is on Georgia almost every day, you are not aware of the many, many people who travel on Georgia by bus? That is strange.

I was just on Georgia! Didn't see a single bus. Lots of traffic though for the middle of the day.

I was just on georgia too and saw cars speeding like maniacs and refusing to yield to ambulances!

Doubt that since it's a rehash of your previous ridiculous midnight stroll story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who is on Georgia almost every day, this plan is strange. Of all the Washingtonians who set foot on Georgia during a day, probably not one in a 100 takes the bus. It's pretty much just all cars.

What is the deal with this city wanting to created dedicated lanes to modes of transportation people don't really use? We have 150 miles of bike lanes for the city's approximately 150 bicyclists. We're going to create a bus lane on a street where only a tiny fraction of the people there using the street take the bus?

22,000 people take buses on Georgia Ave *every day.* That is 1/2 the people traveling on Georgia. It is the busiest bus corridor in DC.

https://ago-item-storage.s3.amazonaws.com/604a004ea0874e08be875c2eda2cfbdf/FAQs.pdf?X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjENr%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEaCXVzLWVhc3QtMSJHMEUCIQDTJtZylTcVyDE8RuINrBcBhWbin80B2D2GJD995wUi4QIgYzVkT9rXJZdFUjoc9cQYu%2Bolhi13EsLGuxBe1iuWqP0qtAUIMhAAGgw2MDQ3NTgxMDI2NjUiDME3OcyG6J0ANtZZRCqRBYQMWngcPj6ErP9CaQ%2FOJpr%2FJGGKehfT2l7TxMP1%2FWlNO0echg0JXnmmOz6HjtSQVgsHgnyOI9kQ7eEF7ItQAiP8XMWyCAfGtvDL8JFL3Uhahy2Zj3PfjIohzC3yW38kgZqODd%2BAsQX8MUIxyseOahs%2Bm68iQ2PnUCi56gH9i2BZXS3x926VPLaTzW7uuaNM1dmYTMWxoHloQO6GzJqi7CJkWATzJhrXP9eyjxT8UkHqXpGi3%2FxtttK%2BKPpgFbY2%2BnREeRZGJQg7CBSzyTbrekV9qi0vrfpZy%2BrDzBzaKlclU8uakaEBfHUPnhsB1Ugt0CPFpx9hERGp9DIHLo2%2BaMWmsog22vLbrTlTiDWlflkUeTKLUpo4mDrIuRQ7bLfapwixgDckUgJcK3EXEmSJx4NpFaIhm7IkEv61kmwmfBYos6DGXuZuOVM05bp1G2mAdPY6rzqTWHmGAhYcvHF%2B%2FrFtVJU9aXKGtGFB%2FWBd%2B1zTt1%2BVxZCOio9krJJ20tb22fbpQLv%2B2MZ%2FoxBvO%2FnDez4zbpRJflIODXXPhtJ1JQRCcFRO0oT%2B0i5a4djWsT%2FsTaj9JSPmmcDL%2BZ8kjSWseVjgZ8%2FacRFHaOcIe1nVGSiU%2BU73Zr7cKtohCXR6t67424a48Ufm4Vlzje338R5tj%2Bh14FKQaTXONqXxkvIBd%2BrIAeDXrNxC74wSTCTT23X3u2A9tO4OP5ZwZnSqmOl4xyb1a58fEjTIbRgEiRQIHqfv4B96w1zA1oFkD53KKD%2BJFO80btfven8w4a2Fa%2FJ8IHcliK9ADYT3wE6Sv%2FxO5Y00Mvquo%2BxsgCN7uYXZDXff%2BVoRK3ept9fFN0Wf1ZhhVe4PDobLKY2r3U02sIuVX7dEDzDFrpC4BjqxASjZEpFC668%2BbUTDQvJn56Zre2yCOegzuBJydimXxgs%2FhXIqJ6ERdRfyx8nuR80LbCiJ6CYRtQf6meAZyBeQzp8WQrkV8G92wMkVry5SM6vpy0s7ZIbIlVjQYiZU2wL7CbvGaQBOFWTJmw4N1V5uIEiY1fCTf41w8T0x69Ryx5UpbONKqTfw%2Fg5PP09R2pcrmISpnLWyl0JKUPH7QzQGQ%2FbNhySXWUOBKeMAr1a%2BHjqJ0g%3D%3D&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Date=20241007T180106Z&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAYZTTEKKEZGODYWHE%2F20241007%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Signature=c9e40009a9f4b058b221a019b001471e6e442f73f369d8737fe6ecfe55f4e44b

Half! Ha! What a lie. Go drive up and down on Georgia and count how many buses you see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who is on Georgia almost every day, this plan is strange. Of all the Washingtonians who set foot on Georgia during a day, probably not one in a 100 takes the bus. It's pretty much just all cars.

What is the deal with this city wanting to created dedicated lanes to modes of transportation people don't really use? We have 150 miles of bike lanes for the city's approximately 150 bicyclists. We're going to create a bus lane on a street where only a tiny fraction of the people there using the street take the bus?

As someone who is on Georgia almost every day, you are not aware of the many, many people who travel on Georgia by bus? That is strange.

I was just on Georgia! Didn't see a single bus. Lots of traffic though for the middle of the day.

I was just on georgia too and saw cars speeding like maniacs and refusing to yield to ambulances!

Doubt that since it's a rehash of your previous ridiculous midnight stroll story.

I was there around 5pm last Friday … what I saw mirrored exactly what DDOT said - lower traffic volume meant people gunned it between lights (right past the hospital no less.)