DDOT's latest plan to destroy traffic, Georgia Avenue edition

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I would actually ride a bike more to get to places. Cars suck. The only reason I don't ride is because major roads are so, sooooo dangerous. People go 80 mph on 35 mph roads. There are tons of stupid drivers. They should make one lane roads everywhere and have bike lanes and bus lanes taking up the rest. People would stop being fat too.

Or - and this might be a novel idea - we could enforce traffic laws. I know it's never been tried before, so who knows how that would work. Perhaps there are other jurisdictions that have tried this novel approach we could look to.

And this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The main problem with traffic on Georgia Avenue is the astounding number of people who double park. That's what makes traffic bad and forces drivers to constantly change lanes. It would be simpler/cheaper/easier to just have the police ticket everyone who double parks until drivers get the message. Traffic would move better for buses and cars alike.

And definitely this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!

Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.

Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?

Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.

One more lane of cars commutting through DC; that will solve it. DC is not (and should not) widen roads.

The area's population is growing. Even if fully devoted to cars and their drivers, the local road system will eventually be at capacity with no room for growth. Devoting lanes to transit is the only longterm solution to handle surface travel through these corridors. Adoption of dedicated bus lanes has resulted in an increased adoption of bus ridership and a reduction in travel time for bus riders.

Uh, DC is actually a lot smaller than it used to be. Currently we have about 670,000 people. In the 1970s, we had more than 750,000 people. In the 1950s, we had more than 800,000. DC's population has shrunk pretty dramatically from when I was a kid.

The region in general has grown though. To pretend that Georgia Avenue and NH and Connecticut are not commuting routes is silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The main problem with traffic on Georgia Avenue is the astounding number of people who double park. That's what makes traffic bad and forces drivers to constantly change lanes. It would be simpler/cheaper/easier to just have the police ticket everyone who double parks until drivers get the message. Traffic would move better for buses and cars alike.

Yes, but DDOT has lots of money to spend and is full of young ideologues so doing simple things like asking the police to enforce existing laws is SO BORING.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Georgia Avenue will become gridlocked, always

- Georgia Ave has been increasingly gridlocked since the removal of the streetcar system in DC. Eventually there is a limit to what the road can handle and we are very close to it already. This means that at some point there will need to be an alternative which brings me to…

2. Very few people ride the bus, and this isn't going to change that.

- many people ride the bus already and you don’t care about them at all so why should they care about you? If you want to sit in traffic then go ahead. Other people will choose to ride the bus.

3. If you live within a half mile of Georgia Avenue in either direction, you can expect an enormous increase in traffic on your street as tens of thousands of drivers cut through side streets to avoid Georgia Avenue.

- Good point. We should increase red zones and limit access to those side streets during key hours.

4. The city says this is needed to reduce speeding. It's worth nothing that a grand total of 9 people in Washington DC were killed by speeding drivers in 2022, the latest year from the police statistics.

- 9 people that should not have died. You seem ok with the loss of life. I’m sure that you assume it’s someone else so not your problem? But why should we make policy based on such a cold and heartless thought process?

https://buspriority.ddot.dc.gov/pages/georgiaavenw

It sounds like the plan is to make driving so miserable that even the bus sounds like a good option. This tracks with the MOCO attainable housing plan to make every neighborhood equally miserable so as to bring down average housing costs (property values) in nice neighborhoods while still raising housing costs in neighborhoods that are currently affordable.

Exactly. Old Georgetown Rd was in gridlock with all 3 active lanes. Of course it worsened with 1 lane removed for bikes. Neighborhood roads, and your families biking and walking on those streets are now far more at risk than they were before.
Remove lanes. Remove surface parking lots. This county hates people who drive cars. (they love love love our tax $$$ though)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!

Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.

Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?

Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.

One more lane of cars commutting through DC; that will solve it. DC is not (and should not) widen roads.

The area's population is growing. Even if fully devoted to cars and their drivers, the local road system will eventually be at capacity with no room for growth. Devoting lanes to transit is the only longterm solution to handle surface travel through these corridors. Adoption of dedicated bus lanes has resulted in an increased adoption of bus ridership and a reduction in travel time for bus riders.

Uh, DC is actually a lot smaller than it used to be. Currently we have about 670,000 people. In the 1970s, we had more than 750,000 people. In the 1950s, we had more than 800,000. DC's population has shrunk pretty dramatically from when I was a kid.

The region in general has grown though. To pretend that Georgia Avenue and NH and Connecticut are not commuting routes is silly.

Same poster adding on to say that DC proper's population has also grown around 20% since 2000 which is relevant.

In 2000 it sat at 572,000 whereas in 2020 it was at around 689,000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The main problem with traffic on Georgia Avenue is the astounding number of people who double park. That's what makes traffic bad and forces drivers to constantly change lanes. It would be simpler/cheaper/easier to just have the police ticket everyone who double parks until drivers get the message. Traffic would move better for buses and cars alike.

Yes, but DDOT has lots of money to spend and is full of young ideologues so doing simple things like asking the police to enforce existing laws is SO BORING.

It would actually be parking enforcement who would ticket double parked cars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
2. Very few people ride the bus, and this isn't going to change that.

The 70/79 bus going through Georgia Avenue is literally the busiest bus route in the system…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!

Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.

Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?

Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.

One more lane of cars commutting through DC; that will solve it. DC is not (and should not) widen roads.

The area's population is growing. Even if fully devoted to cars and their drivers, the local road system will eventually be at capacity with no room for growth. Devoting lanes to transit is the only longterm solution to handle surface travel through these corridors. Adoption of dedicated bus lanes has resulted in an increased adoption of bus ridership and a reduction in travel time for bus riders.

Uh, DC is actually a lot smaller than it used to be. Currently we have about 670,000 people. In the 1970s, we had more than 750,000 people. In the 1950s, we had more than 800,000. DC's population has shrunk pretty dramatically from when I was a kid.

The region in general has grown though. To pretend that Georgia Avenue and NH and Connecticut are not commuting routes is silly.

There are commuting routes, which is why it is bizarre to try to squeeze car traffic on them. Do you think the government employee who lives way out in the burbs is going to switch to busses because of this? No, they will not. They will turn on Waze and take a different route through side streets that were never designed to handle thousands of commuters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
2. Very few people ride the bus, and this isn't going to change that.

The 70/79 bus going through Georgia Avenue is literally the busiest bus route in the system…

A low bar, indeed. Is that like being the smartest member of Congress?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Georgia Avenue will become gridlocked, always

- Georgia Ave has been increasingly gridlocked since the removal of the streetcar system in DC. Eventually there is a limit to what the road can handle and we are very close to it already. This means that at some point there will need to be an alternative which brings me to…

2. Very few people ride the bus, and this isn't going to change that.

- many people ride the bus already and you don’t care about them at all so why should they care about you? If you want to sit in traffic then go ahead. Other people will choose to ride the bus.

3. If you live within a half mile of Georgia Avenue in either direction, you can expect an enormous increase in traffic on your street as tens of thousands of drivers cut through side streets to avoid Georgia Avenue.

- Good point. We should increase red zones and limit access to those side streets during key hours.

4. The city says this is needed to reduce speeding. It's worth nothing that a grand total of 9 people in Washington DC were killed by speeding drivers in 2022, the latest year from the police statistics.

- 9 people that should not have died. You seem ok with the loss of life. I’m sure that you assume it’s someone else so not your problem? But why should we make policy based on such a cold and heartless thought process?

https://buspriority.ddot.dc.gov/pages/georgiaavenw

It sounds like the plan is to make driving so miserable that even the bus sounds like a good option. This tracks with the MOCO attainable housing plan to make every neighborhood equally miserable so as to bring down average housing costs (property values) in nice neighborhoods while still raising housing costs in neighborhoods that are currently affordable.

Exactly. Old Georgetown Rd was in gridlock with all 3 active lanes. Of course it worsened with 1 lane removed for bikes. Neighborhood roads, and your families biking and walking on those streets are now far more at risk than they were before.
Remove lanes. Remove surface parking lots. This county hates people who drive cars. (they love love love our tax $$$ though)

FYI, we're actually talking about the District not your county right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!

Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.

Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?

Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.

One more lane of cars commutting through DC; that will solve it. DC is not (and should not) widen roads.

The area's population is growing. Even if fully devoted to cars and their drivers, the local road system will eventually be at capacity with no room for growth. Devoting lanes to transit is the only longterm solution to handle surface travel through these corridors. Adoption of dedicated bus lanes has resulted in an increased adoption of bus ridership and a reduction in travel time for bus riders.

Uh, DC is actually a lot smaller than it used to be. Currently we have about 670,000 people. In the 1970s, we had more than 750,000 people. In the 1950s, we had more than 800,000. DC's population has shrunk pretty dramatically from when I was a kid.

The region in general has grown though. To pretend that Georgia Avenue and NH and Connecticut are not commuting routes is silly.

There are commuting routes, which is why it is bizarre to try to squeeze car traffic on them. Do you think the government employee who lives way out in the burbs is going to switch to busses because of this? No, they will not. They will turn on Waze and take a different route through side streets that were never designed to handle thousands of commuters.

People once upon a time did commute by Metro. Maybe a few could give it a shot. It's not so bad anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
2. Very few people ride the bus, and this isn't going to change that.

The 70/79 bus going through Georgia Avenue is literally the busiest bus route in the system…

A low bar, indeed. Is that like being the smartest member of Congress?

When was the last time you rode it. Oh, right. Never.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The main problem with traffic on Georgia Avenue is the astounding number of people who double park. That's what makes traffic bad and forces drivers to constantly change lanes. It would be simpler/cheaper/easier to just have the police ticket everyone who double parks until drivers get the message. Traffic would move better for buses and cars alike.

Yes, but DDOT has lots of money to spend and is full of young ideologues so doing simple things like asking the police to enforce existing laws is SO BORING.

It would actually be parking enforcement who would ticket double parked cars.

But the police would need to be called in for the resulting tow, to keep traffic moving, no? Not to mention to protect the parking enforcement group from the double-parkers, who, though they leave their cars there, blocking others, are often in proximity and would far more likely create a confrontation with those issuing tickets without the assumed greater authority (backed up by physical consequences) of uniformed police.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!

Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.

Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?

Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.

One more lane of cars commutting through DC; that will solve it. DC is not (and should not) widen roads.

The area's population is growing. Even if fully devoted to cars and their drivers, the local road system will eventually be at capacity with no room for growth. Devoting lanes to transit is the only longterm solution to handle surface travel through these corridors. Adoption of dedicated bus lanes has resulted in an increased adoption of bus ridership and a reduction in travel time for bus riders.

Uh, DC is actually a lot smaller than it used to be. Currently we have about 670,000 people. In the 1970s, we had more than 750,000 people. In the 1950s, we had more than 800,000. DC's population has shrunk pretty dramatically from when I was a kid.

The region in general has grown though. To pretend that Georgia Avenue and NH and Connecticut are not commuting routes is silly.

Same poster adding on to say that DC proper's population has also grown around 20% since 2000 which is relevant.

In 2000 it sat at 572,000 whereas in 2020 it was at around 689,000

It's also shrunk since 2020. Seems misleading to claim there's no room at the inn, when DC is substantially smaller than it used to be and in recent years has stopped growing altogether. In 2020, we had 689,000. In 2021, we had 669,000. In 2022, we had 670,000. In 2023, we had 678,000.