Big 3 Nightmare

[Anonymous]

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You just had unrealistic expectations from the beginning. The locus of Ivy-bound kids in this area has always been TJ and the MCPS magnets/RMIB. If your kid wasn’t going to get in there, they weren’t going to get into an Ivy. When you pay for private school you do not actually pay for the strivers and the “smartest” - those kids have always been in public. What you pay for is getting into a namebrand SLAC of some sort, especially if your child is less impressive. In some ways your kid working hard at the private was a waste. They could have coasted with the same result - that is actually what you paid for!

This is complete bs. The smartest kids have definitely never “always been in public,” any more than they have always been in private. Most kids don’t want or try to get into TJ or RM, it has nothing to do with not being able to get in. Your scenario is a fantasy, since 30-40% of Ivy classes come from private. And what private school families pay for is a rigorous curriculum with smaller classes that teach students how (not what) to think and write, not college admissions.

Who said that 30-40% are the smartest? They certainly may be connected. But even with those stats it’s evident that the majority of Ivy kids don’t come from private. I’ll say it again - the *whole point* of private is to protect your children’s privilege to be average and still get into a great college. The brillian strivers going to MIT are in RMIB. Your “big 3” kid is not that smart and hardworking - and that is the whole point: they do not have to be. It’s the literal definition of privilege.

I believe 50% of Ivy students come from private school while 50% come from public. Given that 90% of students in the US go to public school, this means that, other things being equal, private school students are heavily favoured for Ivy admissions. Parents are upset because the outcome is much more unpredictable than it used to be and all colleges and universities have become much more competitive.

No, whatever the stat is, it means that most public school kids don't even apply to college and instead go into trades or other professions. Only something like 42% of Americans have a college degree. https://www.bestcolleges.com/news/analysis/2021/07/01/how-many-americans-have-college-degrees/

And another huge chunk of public school kids don't even apply to ivies, or the ivy accepts them with small FA so they choose a SLAC or state school that offers more aid instead. Ivies don't offer merit aid. We know several middle-class kids who turned down ivies, but DC went because we were full pay.

Geez, people.

no, it also means that those who could afford elite private High Schools are also largely the group that can afford to be full pay at an Ivy. The public school kids that don't even apply to ivies often don't because they know they can't afford it so they stick to schools that give merit and state schools

Some Ivies offer full ride to lower income kids.

Right, but only a few do this for lots of kids, and even Harvard isn't going to give all of Blair's graduating class a full ride.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Doesn’t really matter due to advent of TO, the point of the APs is not the test score, it’s the GPA boost

NO.

It's not, and never has been, about the GPA boost. Colleges look at UNWEIGHTED GPA, not weighted GPA. This point has been repeated over and over again on this thread, and over and over on DCUM for at least since my oldest kid was applying five years ago, in the pre-TO era. How many more times before you get it?

For kids going to state schools and many SLACs, a 4-5 on an AP will let them skip and get credit for the intro, 100-level course, which could save them tuition or being bored for a semester. Ivies generally don't allow this and only use APs for credentialling.

The point of APs is credentialling for public school kids, where the quality of teaching may be more uneven and colleges want assurance that A in AP Statistics reflects a solid understanding of the material.

Result: A kid who scores 4 or 5 on an AP will send in their scores, TO or not.

Many schools from 30-50 give kids AP credit, not just State schools.
My kid is only allowed to use 4 AP credits for "getting ahead"/"getting college credit" but can use as many as they want to put themselves into higher courses. They cannot however use them to get ahead in "core curriculum area"---so thankful my kid avoided the AP ENG/APUSH as they wouldn't count.

So my kid has a full semester of credit and is has 2 additional areas where they are starting at the next level course. due to AP credit. This will enable them to do Engineering and a CS minor (or a 2nd engineering minor) in 4 years.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Doesn’t really matter due to advent of TO, the point of the APs is not the test score, it’s the GPA boost

NO.

It's not, and never has been, about the GPA boost. Colleges look at UNWEIGHTED GPA, not weighted GPA. This point has been repeated over and over again on this thread, and over and over on DCUM for at least since my oldest kid was applying five years ago, in the pre-TO era. How many more times before you get it?

For kids going to state schools and many SLACs, a 4-5 on an AP will let them skip and get credit for the intro, 100-level course, which could save them tuition or being bored for a semester. Ivies generally don't allow this and only use APs for credentialling.

The point of APs is credentialling for public school kids, where the quality of teaching may be more uneven and colleges want assurance that A in AP Statistics reflects a solid understanding of the material.

Result: A kid who scores 4 or 5 on an AP will send in their scores, TO or not.

Rather than just repeating this claim over and over, it would probably be more effective if you could get state flagships to make public statements explaining this. Because right now many of them say they give bumps for APs, or use your school’s weighted GPA. And no one is going to trust some anonymous comment on DCUM when the schools themselves are issuing official statements that say the opposite.

This is the heart of the problem these kids are facing, by the way: the privates are so optimized for getting hooked kids into T15s that when a kid strikes out in the T30 and decides to go for a state flagship, they wind up falling pretty far down the list.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This thread seems to be primarily about GDS. Is Sidwell similar or STA/NCS?

Also, how does GDS address the needs of families who are seeking need based and merit aid? Do they allow those families to apply more broadly? DC is on considerable FA at another school and I would not be ok if DC had to limit options for matching with a school with adequate funding because of arbitrary school rules.

The NCS process is much more transparent and you have access to more data. That does not mean everyone at NCS is thrilled with their outcomes or with the process, but having been through it at both schools, we found the NCS approach less stressful. There are very few scenarios where having less information is better than having more information.

You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS.
Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin.
Not throwing shade at these schools. They are excellent but lots of kids who had a more chill HS experience also end up at the same place. How is the stress and crazy amount of work at top high schools like GDS and NCS worth it?

Bates parent here from a highly regarded DMV public school. Your mindset is 1990s. The median GPA for my kid's HS for Bates was 4.6w. Wisconsin is a similarly tough admit nowadays. None of the kids who go to these schools from the DC area had a "chill HS experience." Sorry that your kid has to slum with mine, we're very glad that we chose not to put our kids in overpriced mediocre privates only to end up in the exact same place as hardworking public school kids. Hope your kid didn't inherit your sense of entitlement.

Is your highly regarded public school in MoCo? because if it is, everyone is aware now of the unlimited retakes, the C + B = A as the final grade, and equity-driven GPA outcomes. I'm not saying your kid isn't deserving. I am saying that any moderately intelligent kid attending at MoCo HS will emerge with a 4.2w or better just by breathing.

This is not the case at GDS, NCS, STA and especially Sidwell, where two English teachers will not give As. To anyone.

I don’t understand why you are being rude. C +B = B in MCPS. It does not equal an A. I agree that there is grade inflation in MCPS but the kids work hard. If you have a problem with the English teachers at Sidwell, you should try to address it at your school rather than trying to feel better by insulting MCPS. Some of the MCPS teachers are also pretty stingy with As.

Unless you've had a kid at GDS, NCS, etc, you can't say they're comparable. They're not. My kid is on a sports team with all MCPS kids who take the hardest classes, very high GPAs, etc, and they don't work even half as hard as their counterparts in top privates. Not saying they're not smart, but their high school experience is absolutely chill in comparison.

My kid went to Jackson Reed and is now at an Ivy. She took 6 APs junior year and almost had a breakdown because there was so much work. She was up until 2am every night. She also had multiple intensive activities that required a lot of time. I’m not saying that JR is as good as GDS but there are some dynamite kids there and I’m sure MCPS is the same. JR still does rankings and my daughter was not even top 5. Every school, public and private, has some amazing kids. And they are all competing for the same schools

Yes, my kids came out of DCPS and many of their friends are at JR and some are very impressive. However, being up well past midnight is par for the course for the baseline (not AP) course in even 9th and 10th grade at some of these Big3 schools. Then 6 APs would be impossible. My kids' schools give 1.5 hours a night per AP course. That ends would be 9 hours of homework nightly if a kid took 6 APs.

I think what the frustration is, is that the Big private school kids are doing the equivalent of your daughter's JR course load every year for 4 years, getting a mixture of As and Bs (because many teachers simply don't give As) and then have no chance in hell of the Ivies or (as of 2023) any school in the top 40.

If I had to do this again, I may not have moved them and we would have stuck with JR. Their high school years have trained them to be phenomenal students but their options for college have really narrowed by our choice to move them from DCPS to private.

This isn't true, at least for 9th and 10th--I know kids at Sidwell and NCS. To the extent it's true for the rare kid out there, after factoring in ECs, it's child abuse. And you paid $50k a year for it.

Your point about APs isn't clear. APs are a form of credentialing, where the public school kids are proving they learned the material inside and out. Kids at a Big 3 don't need that credentialing, which is why we all know that college admissions counselors don't expect as many AP classes from private school kids as from public school kids. Equally, you need to stop complaining that public school kids who took 12 APs didn't learn anything.

My kids in MCPS had teachers that wouldn't give A's either. For example, in AP Calc II. And the colleges' regional reps understand this and have already factored it in. So no using continuing to complain about it.

Also, to the RMIB booster: few kids at RMIB are gunning for MIT, instead they want ivies, and anyway RMIB with the international baccalaureate isn't a fertile ground for MIT to recruit in.

Bottom line: colleges are no longer simply accepting kids with "solid grades" and "solid ECs" and top test scores because you could afford to prep them up the wazoo. Your kid needs top grades (unweighted GPA, and factoring in what the admissions reps know about your school's grading policies) and to knock the ECs out of the ballpark with state and preferably national recognition (like my kid did, coming from public).
- A dozen APs aren't a boost except as credentialing, as pointed out above (and the weighting for APs doesn't change anything because most top colleges take your kid's transcript apart and run it through their own weighting schemes).
- Legacy is no longer a hook at most colleges unless your legacy kid with "solid ECs" comes with a huge donation.
- Being able to pay for intensive test prep from junior year (we know one private school family who did this from HS freshman year) is no longer a boost in a test-optional environment.

There are some state universities that take the raw grade and create their own weighted GPA giving a boost to courses designated at AP (and do NOT give a boost a private school English class that is deemed to be AP level - even if your child took AP and got a 5).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kid at one of the top schools (not Big three, next three).

Yes, of course, we all know that private schools do not guarantee good colleges. And yes, we all knew that our kids' GPA would suffer and that being in the private school environment was why were in it for the long run.

But what I did NOT expect:

That with TO, your kid will have an issue even at Univ. of Maryland, and other second/third tier/flagship state schools. These schools don't give a rats A@@ about the private schools in DC and how good they are. And they go by GPA, period.

So the "benefit" is much more stress, more homework, for no gain.

I dismissed the whining private school parents who complained about this several years ago. But now I see it. And it sucks.

Will my child live? Of course. But for the private school critics, my kid worked hard for 4 years. Really hard. And here we are.

Boo hoo.

[Anonymous]

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I do not resent your kids. I do resent your belief that they are the smartest and hardest working. They are not. I’m sure they are very bright and smart, but you are literally purchasing advantages for them. Ie privilege.

Every one of your posts is filled with so many false assumptions and ingrained biases that reflect a serious lack of analytical ability. Sending kids to private school does not equal purchasing advantages for them (in fact, if that were someone's goal, this entire thread debunks that it works). People are purchasing what they consider a better education for their kid when they pay their tuition. Under your theory, how do you account for the 30% of students on financial aid at local private schools? Be honest. You are bitter that some people send their kids to private schools, and some of those students are smart and have great work ethics even though they also come from families with money. BTW, I went to public school and have kids that went to MCPS.

Seriously, how can you not consider this an advantage?
- Private school parent

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This thread seems to be primarily about GDS. Is Sidwell similar or STA/NCS?

Also, how does GDS address the needs of families who are seeking need based and merit aid? Do they allow those families to apply more broadly? DC is on considerable FA at another school and I would not be ok if DC had to limit options for matching with a school with adequate funding because of arbitrary school rules.

The NCS process is much more transparent and you have access to more data. That does not mean everyone at NCS is thrilled with their outcomes or with the process, but having been through it at both schools, we found the NCS approach less stressful. There are very few scenarios where having less information is better than having more information.

You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS.
Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin.
Not throwing shade at these schools. They are excellent but lots of kids who had a more chill HS experience also end up at the same place. How is the stress and crazy amount of work at top high schools like GDS and NCS worth it?

Bates parent here from a highly regarded DMV public school. Your mindset is 1990s. The median GPA for my kid's HS for Bates was 4.6w. Wisconsin is a similarly tough admit nowadays. None of the kids who go to these schools from the DC area had a "chill HS experience." Sorry that your kid has to slum with mine, we're very glad that we chose not to put our kids in overpriced mediocre privates only to end up in the exact same place as hardworking public school kids. Hope your kid didn't inherit your sense of entitlement.

Is your highly regarded public school in MoCo? because if it is, everyone is aware now of the unlimited retakes, the C + B = A as the final grade, and equity-driven GPA outcomes. I'm not saying your kid isn't deserving. I am saying that any moderately intelligent kid attending at MoCo HS will emerge with a 4.2w or better just by breathing.

This is not the case at GDS, NCS, STA and especially Sidwell, where two English teachers will not give As. To anyone.

I don’t understand why you are being rude. C +B = B in MCPS. It does not equal an A. I agree that there is grade inflation in MCPS but the kids work hard. If you have a problem with the English teachers at Sidwell, you should try to address it at your school rather than trying to feel better by insulting MCPS. Some of the MCPS teachers are also pretty stingy with As.

Unless you've had a kid at GDS, NCS, etc, you can't say they're comparable. They're not. My kid is on a sports team with all MCPS kids who take the hardest classes, very high GPAs, etc, and they don't work even half as hard as their counterparts in top privates. Not saying they're not smart, but their high school experience is absolutely chill in comparison.

My kid went to Jackson Reed and is now at an Ivy. She took 6 APs junior year and almost had a breakdown because there was so much work. She was up until 2am every night. She also had multiple intensive activities that required a lot of time. I’m not saying that JR is as good as GDS but there are some dynamite kids there and I’m sure MCPS is the same. JR still does rankings and my daughter was not even top 5. Every school, public and private, has some amazing kids. And they are all competing for the same schools

Yes, my kids came out of DCPS and many of their friends are at JR and some are very impressive. However, being up well past midnight is par for the course for the baseline (not AP) course in even 9th and 10th grade at some of these Big3 schools. Then 6 APs would be impossible. My kids' schools give 1.5 hours a night per AP course. That ends would be 9 hours of homework nightly if a kid took 6 APs.

I think what the frustration is, is that the Big private school kids are doing the equivalent of your daughter's JR course load every year for 4 years, getting a mixture of As and Bs (because many teachers simply don't give As) and then have no chance in hell of the Ivies or (as of 2023) any school in the top 40.

If I had to do this again, I may not have moved them and we would have stuck with JR. Their high school years have trained them to be phenomenal students but their options for college have really narrowed by our choice to move them from DCPS to private.

This isn't true, at least for 9th and 10th--I know kids at Sidwell and NCS. To the extent it's true for the rare kid out there, after factoring in ECs, it's child abuse. And you paid $50k a year for it.

Your point about APs isn't clear. APs are a form of credentialing, where the public school kids are proving they learned the material inside and out. Kids at a Big 3 don't need that credentialing, which is why we all know that college admissions counselors don't expect as many AP classes from private school kids as from public school kids. Equally, you need to stop complaining that public school kids who took 12 APs didn't learn anything.

My kids in MCPS had teachers that wouldn't give A's either. For example, in AP Calc II. And the colleges' regional reps understand this and have already factored it in. So no using continuing to complain about it.

Also, to the RMIB booster: few kids at RMIB are gunning for MIT, instead they want ivies, and anyway RMIB with the international baccalaureate isn't a fertile ground for MIT to recruit in.

Bottom line: colleges are no longer simply accepting kids with "solid grades" and "solid ECs" and top test scores because you could afford to prep them up the wazoo. Your kid needs top grades (unweighted GPA, and factoring in what the admissions reps know about your school's grading policies) and to knock the ECs out of the ballpark with state and preferably national recognition (like my kid did, coming from public).
- A dozen APs aren't a boost except as credentialing, as pointed out above (and the weighting for APs doesn't change anything because most top colleges take your kid's transcript apart and run it through their own weighting schemes).
- Legacy is no longer a hook at most colleges unless your legacy kid with "solid ECs" comes with a huge donation.
- Being able to pay for intensive test prep from junior year (we know one private school family who did this from HS freshman year) is no longer a boost in a test-optional environment.

How hypocritical if the goal is equity. Do you have any idea how expensive ECs are to participate in? How most kids have zero access to scientific research or whatever? Test scores are the most equitable thing out there. Poor kids are working at Burger King after school as their EC.

No, test scores reflect expensive and tailored tutoring (we've been there), and poor kids are stuck with the generic once-a-week-for-one-month tutoring their HS offers. But you know this....

Colleges love kids that worked after school instead of flying their horse around the country. If you put work in your application, combined with great grades and recs, it's like admissions gold. But you know this....

Lots of public schools have practically free athletic options, even crew at several MCPS schools. DC's ivy had lots of football and baseball recruits. Not everything has to be about fencing (we've also been there). But you know this....

Oh yeah colleges are falling all over themselves for the kids with good grades who went to rough schools and worked at BK after school.

This is a fantasy to make yourself feel better.

This is how the world works these days. You added the part about "rough schools" and those kids do face extra hurdles. But yes, U Penn will take a Montgomery Blair kid who worked 4-6 hrs/day to support their family and save for college over your pampered kid with "solid ECs" in a heartbeat.

No they won’t, because that Montgomery Blair kid will not have the grades/classes to even get a second look. The myth that poor/first-gen kids waltz into top colleges because of URM preferences is just that- a myth. The very few extraordinary kids who work substantial PT jobs and take APs and get great grades? Sure. But it is extremely hard to do that. “Poor” kids are not just like your kid except poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I do not resent your kids. I do resent your belief that they are the smartest and hardest working. They are not. I’m sure they are very bright and smart, but you are literally purchasing advantages for them. Ie privilege.

Every one of your posts is filled with so many false assumptions and ingrained biases that reflect a serious lack of analytical ability. Sending kids to private school does not equal purchasing advantages for them (in fact, if that were someone's goal, this entire thread debunks that it works). People are purchasing what they consider a better education for their kid when they pay their tuition. Under your theory, how do you account for the 30% of students on financial aid at local private schools? Be honest. You are bitter that some people send their kids to private schools, and some of those students are smart and have great work ethics even though they also come from families with money. BTW, I went to public school and have kids that went to MCPS.

how can you claim with a straight face that you are not purchasing advantages for your kid? why are you spending all that money, then? You are purchasing advantages other kids have to work for - yes, with their sometimes greater drive, work ethic, and intelligence.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Doesn’t really matter due to advent of TO, the point of the APs is not the test score, it’s the GPA boost

NO.

It's not, and never has been, about the GPA boost. Colleges look at UNWEIGHTED GPA, not weighted GPA. This point has been repeated over and over again on this thread, and over and over on DCUM for at least since my oldest kid was applying five years ago, in the pre-TO era. How many more times before you get it?

For kids going to state schools and many SLACs, a 4-5 on an AP will let them skip and get credit for the intro, 100-level course, which could save them tuition or being bored for a semester. Ivies generally don't allow this and only use APs for credentialling.

The point of APs is credentialling for public school kids, where the quality of teaching may be more uneven and colleges want assurance that A in AP Statistics reflects a solid understanding of the material.

Result: A kid who scores 4 or 5 on an AP will send in their scores, TO or not.

Rather than just repeating this claim over and over, it would probably be more effective if you could get state flagships to make public statements explaining this. Because right now many of them say they give bumps for APs, or use your school’s weighted GPA. And no one is going to trust some anonymous comment on DCUM when the schools themselves are issuing official statements that say the opposite.

This is the heart of the problem these kids are facing, by the way: the privates are so optimized for getting hooked kids into T15s that when a kid strikes out in the T30 and decides to go for a state flagship, they wind up falling pretty far down the list.

Nobody is disputing that a 4 or 5 on an AP will give your kid a bump. The whole point is that colleges use it to make sure your kid's A in chem is for real--if your kid scores high on AP chem, it's clear they actually know the material, regardless of the quality of the class or the teacher. So that's a strawman right there.

So have your kid take the AP test even if their class wasn't labelled "AP." Although a tutor might help, I know kids who have done this, and done well, even without tutoring--like my kid. It was actually only a few week's work to figure out the material that wasn't covered in the class but could be on the AP test. Buy the relevant AP test prep book. Maybe it's too late for private school kids in this round, but going forward private school families might consider this.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Wow- I went to a TT SLAC in the 90s from NCS with a similar GPA and a 1480 SAT.

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Anonymous wrote:“You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS. Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin. “

I am an NCS parent of a senior. We would be dancing on the rooftops if our DD got into Wisconsin. It was a rejection. We are looking at options much, much lower on the USNWR list. Think 75-120.

what is your child's approx. GPA? NCS parent here.

GPA is 3.4. ACT is 33

That truly sucks. All the grade inflation at public schools and test optional is so frustrating.

This is so tone deaf. You realize that “back in the day,” elite colleges only let in certain types of people (originally WASP-Y men from certain families and high schools). Broadening access to a wider swath of kids is a GOOD thing for the colleges and for the country vs having something more like an oligarchy of access. Private school kids do not need MORE protection and benefits. They are going to be fine.

-parent of private school kid who didn’t have a great college outcome

I don’t need a lesson from you about “back in the day”, but thanks private school parent. I was first gen to go to college from LM family. No one said anything about protections or benefits. A meritocracy should be the goal. Not for public schools to inflate grades so that a 4.0 has no more meaning.

So in other words, you want to pull down the ladder behind you.

Not at all. I don’t think my kid should be up against MCPS kids who get Bs and then “show improvement” and all of a sudden it’s an A. Give me a break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS. Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin. “

I am an NCS parent of a senior. We would be dancing on the rooftops if our DD got into Wisconsin. It was a rejection. We are looking at options much, much lower on the USNWR list. Think 75-120.

As a parent struggling with sending our kids to private or keeping them in our strong public, I’m starting to think we may as well save our 150k per year for our 3 kids. While we can afford tuition, college is our one and main goal for secondary schools.

If you are going to be disappointed with potential college outcomes, then you should definately save your private school tuition money.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:“You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS. Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin. “

I am an NCS parent of a senior. We would be dancing on the rooftops if our DD got into Wisconsin. It was a rejection. We are looking at options much, much lower on the USNWR list. Think 75-120.

Sorry to hear that. Her solid education at NCS will serve her for life.
I hope she is happy with her choices but she can always transfer to a more selective school in a year or two if she wants

I had an old colleague who used to brag about her daughter ALL the time. Daughter went to NCS. I didn’t talk to them during Covid and her daughter ended up at third tier school. I thought for sure she would be Ivy material. Now that I have kids approaching high school, I realize how competitive the college universe has become. While her daughter may have been a superstar as a child, I guess she didn’t shine at NCS.

If the kid graduated 2020-2023, the deck was stacked against her. Unfair to say she didn’t shine. Institutional priorities changed and a private school coastal kid was on the wrong side of that change. Especially a white kid, no hooks, just a a good student with solid ECs. Since 2020, that’s been a formula for lottery ticket top 30, else outcome most likely is 50-150 ranked college

Just the facts. Look at the instas for this year and last year for all private schools around here. Of course they are incomplete and we don’t know accomplishments, but take our kids who have a sport next to their name (recruits), and I’d wager the median admit is far lower ranked school than 5 years ago. It’s why none of the top privates even publicly report matriculation data by class like they used to. They bunch it into “in the last 5 years, NCS students have attended XYZ schools”

We all know what’s happening. Not fair to say kid didn’t “shine”

Plus NCS has gone grade deflationary in last few years.

I understand there are strange dynamics at private schools (hard to make a complaint on your own and find that others that purport to support your position in private simply melt away and leave you hanging)...but how can there not be an effort on behalf of many parents to confront the excessive homework and grade deflation.

Wasn't the "bargain" that it would result in top college admissions? I mean in all honesty..what is the point of making kids do so much homework in HS? Is there some philosophy behind this (similar to a Montessori or other educational philosophy)? Why would you then also hit them with low grades?

College Prep =/= College Admissions

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This thread seems to be primarily about GDS. Is Sidwell similar or STA/NCS?

Also, how does GDS address the needs of families who are seeking need based and merit aid? Do they allow those families to apply more broadly? DC is on considerable FA at another school and I would not be ok if DC had to limit options for matching with a school with adequate funding because of arbitrary school rules.

The NCS process is much more transparent and you have access to more data. That does not mean everyone at NCS is thrilled with their outcomes or with the process, but having been through it at both schools, we found the NCS approach less stressful. There are very few scenarios where having less information is better than having more information.

You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS.
Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin.
Not throwing shade at these schools. They are excellent but lots of kids who had a more chill HS experience also end up at the same place. How is the stress and crazy amount of work at top high schools like GDS and NCS worth it?

Bates parent here from a highly regarded DMV public school. Your mindset is 1990s. The median GPA for my kid's HS for Bates was 4.6w. Wisconsin is a similarly tough admit nowadays. None of the kids who go to these schools from the DC area had a "chill HS experience." Sorry that your kid has to slum with mine, we're very glad that we chose not to put our kids in overpriced mediocre privates only to end up in the exact same place as hardworking public school kids. Hope your kid didn't inherit your sense of entitlement.

Is your highly regarded public school in MoCo? because if it is, everyone is aware now of the unlimited retakes, the C + B = A as the final grade, and equity-driven GPA outcomes. I'm not saying your kid isn't deserving. I am saying that any moderately intelligent kid attending at MoCo HS will emerge with a 4.2w or better just by breathing.

This is not the case at GDS, NCS, STA and especially Sidwell, where two English teachers will not give As. To anyone.

I don’t understand why you are being rude. C +B = B in MCPS. It does not equal an A. I agree that there is grade inflation in MCPS but the kids work hard. If you have a problem with the English teachers at Sidwell, you should try to address it at your school rather than trying to feel better by insulting MCPS. Some of the MCPS teachers are also pretty stingy with As.

Unless you've had a kid at GDS, NCS, etc, you can't say they're comparable. They're not. My kid is on a sports team with all MCPS kids who take the hardest classes, very high GPAs, etc, and they don't work even half as hard as their counterparts in top privates. Not saying they're not smart, but their high school experience is absolutely chill in comparison.

My kid went to Jackson Reed and is now at an Ivy. She took 6 APs junior year and almost had a breakdown because there was so much work. She was up until 2am every night. She also had multiple intensive activities that required a lot of time. I’m not saying that JR is as good as GDS but there are some dynamite kids there and I’m sure MCPS is the same. JR still does rankings and my daughter was not even top 5. Every school, public and private, has some amazing kids. And they are all competing for the same schools

Yes, my kids came out of DCPS and many of their friends are at JR and some are very impressive. However, being up well past midnight is par for the course for the baseline (not AP) course in even 9th and 10th grade at some of these Big3 schools. Then 6 APs would be impossible. My kids' schools give 1.5 hours a night per AP course. That ends would be 9 hours of homework nightly if a kid took 6 APs.

I think what the frustration is, is that the Big private school kids are doing the equivalent of your daughter's JR course load every year for 4 years, getting a mixture of As and Bs (because many teachers simply don't give As) and then have no chance in hell of the Ivies or (as of 2023) any school in the top 40.

If I had to do this again, I may not have moved them and we would have stuck with JR. Their high school years have trained them to be phenomenal students but their options for college have really narrowed by our choice to move them from DCPS to private.

This isn't true, at least for 9th and 10th--I know kids at Sidwell and NCS. To the extent it's true for the rare kid out there, after factoring in ECs, it's child abuse. And you paid $50k a year for it.

Your point about APs isn't clear. APs are a form of credentialing, where the public school kids are proving they learned the material inside and out. Kids at a Big 3 don't need that credentialing, which is why we all know that college admissions counselors don't expect as many AP classes from private school kids as from public school kids. Equally, you need to stop complaining that public school kids who took 12 APs didn't learn anything.

My kids in MCPS had teachers that wouldn't give A's either. For example, in AP Calc II. And the colleges' regional reps understand this and have already factored it in. So no using continuing to complain about it.

Also, to the RMIB booster: few kids at RMIB are gunning for MIT, instead they want ivies, and anyway RMIB with the international baccalaureate isn't a fertile ground for MIT to recruit in.

Bottom line: colleges are no longer simply accepting kids with "solid grades" and "solid ECs" and top test scores because you could afford to prep them up the wazoo. Your kid needs top grades (unweighted GPA, and factoring in what the admissions reps know about your school's grading policies) and to knock the ECs out of the ballpark with state and preferably national recognition (like my kid did, coming from public).
- A dozen APs aren't a boost except as credentialing, as pointed out above (and the weighting for APs doesn't change anything because most top colleges take your kid's transcript apart and run it through their own weighting schemes).
- Legacy is no longer a hook at most colleges unless your legacy kid with "solid ECs" comes with a huge donation.
- Being able to pay for intensive test prep from junior year (we know one private school family who did this from HS freshman year) is no longer a boost in a test-optional environment.

How hypocritical if the goal is equity. Do you have any idea how expensive ECs are to participate in? How most kids have zero access to scientific research or whatever? Test scores are the most equitable thing out there. Poor kids are working at Burger King after school as their EC.

No, test scores reflect expensive and tailored tutoring (we've been there), and poor kids are stuck with the generic once-a-week-for-one-month tutoring their HS offers. But you know this....

Colleges love kids that worked after school instead of flying their horse around the country. If you put work in your application, combined with great grades and recs, it's like admissions gold. But you know this....

Lots of public schools have practically free athletic options, even crew at several MCPS schools. DC's ivy had lots of football and baseball recruits. Not everything has to be about fencing (we've also been there). But you know this....

Oh yeah colleges are falling all over themselves for the kids with good grades who went to rough schools and worked at BK after school.

This is a fantasy to make yourself feel better.

This is how the world works these days. You added the part about "rough schools" and those kids do face extra hurdles. But yes, U Penn will take a Montgomery Blair kid who worked 4-6 hrs/day to support their family and save for college over your pampered kid with "solid ECs" in a heartbeat.

No they won’t, because that Montgomery Blair kid will not have the grades/classes to even get a second look. The myth that poor/first-gen kids waltz into top colleges because of URM preferences is just that- a myth. The very few extraordinary kids who work substantial PT jobs and take APs and get great grades? Sure. But it is extremely hard to do that. “Poor” kids are not just like your kid except poor.

Except we're talking about "extraordinary" kids when we talk about ivy admissions, whether they come from public or private. The hard-working first gen kid isn't a myth, you just don't know any.

The idea that a nice private school kid with "solid ECs" (as opposed to, you know, national recognition) can waltz into an ivy is a myth, though.

Your kid's real problem is that they were competing with their own classmates who had superior credentials. Like national recognition in an EC, higher grades, better teacher recs, or a rich or famous parent. No, I don't mean legacy, which doesn't help anymore unless you're a major donor.

Stop blaming public school kids.

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Anonymous wrote:This thread seems to be primarily about GDS. Is Sidwell similar or STA/NCS?

Also, how does GDS address the needs of families who are seeking need based and merit aid? Do they allow those families to apply more broadly? DC is on considerable FA at another school and I would not be ok if DC had to limit options for matching with a school with adequate funding because of arbitrary school rules.

The NCS process is much more transparent and you have access to more data. That does not mean everyone at NCS is thrilled with their outcomes or with the process, but having been through it at both schools, we found the NCS approach less stressful. There are very few scenarios where having less information is better than having more information.

You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS.
Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin.
Not throwing shade at these schools. They are excellent but lots of kids who had a more chill HS experience also end up at the same place. How is the stress and crazy amount of work at top high schools like GDS and NCS worth it?

Bates parent here from a highly regarded DMV public school. Your mindset is 1990s. The median GPA for my kid's HS for Bates was 4.6w. Wisconsin is a similarly tough admit nowadays. None of the kids who go to these schools from the DC area had a "chill HS experience." Sorry that your kid has to slum with mine, we're very glad that we chose not to put our kids in overpriced mediocre privates only to end up in the exact same place as hardworking public school kids. Hope your kid didn't inherit your sense of entitlement.

Is your highly regarded public school in MoCo? because if it is, everyone is aware now of the unlimited retakes, the C + B = A as the final grade, and equity-driven GPA outcomes. I'm not saying your kid isn't deserving. I am saying that any moderately intelligent kid attending at MoCo HS will emerge with a 4.2w or better just by breathing.

This is not the case at GDS, NCS, STA and especially Sidwell, where two English teachers will not give As. To anyone.

I don’t understand why you are being rude. C +B = B in MCPS. It does not equal an A. I agree that there is grade inflation in MCPS but the kids work hard. If you have a problem with the English teachers at Sidwell, you should try to address it at your school rather than trying to feel better by insulting MCPS. Some of the MCPS teachers are also pretty stingy with As.

Unless you've had a kid at GDS, NCS, etc, you can't say they're comparable. They're not. My kid is on a sports team with all MCPS kids who take the hardest classes, very high GPAs, etc, and they don't work even half as hard as their counterparts in top privates. Not saying they're not smart, but their high school experience is absolutely chill in comparison.

My kid went to Jackson Reed and is now at an Ivy. She took 6 APs junior year and almost had a breakdown because there was so much work. She was up until 2am every night. She also had multiple intensive activities that required a lot of time. I’m not saying that JR is as good as GDS but there are some dynamite kids there and I’m sure MCPS is the same. JR still does rankings and my daughter was not even top 5. Every school, public and private, has some amazing kids. And they are all competing for the same schools

Yes, my kids came out of DCPS and many of their friends are at JR and some are very impressive. However, being up well past midnight is par for the course for the baseline (not AP) course in even 9th and 10th grade at some of these Big3 schools. Then 6 APs would be impossible. My kids' schools give 1.5 hours a night per AP course. That ends would be 9 hours of homework nightly if a kid took 6 APs.

I think what the frustration is, is that the Big private school kids are doing the equivalent of your daughter's JR course load every year for 4 years, getting a mixture of As and Bs (because many teachers simply don't give As) and then have no chance in hell of the Ivies or (as of 2023) any school in the top 40.

If I had to do this again, I may not have moved them and we would have stuck with JR. Their high school years have trained them to be phenomenal students but their options for college have really narrowed by our choice to move them from DCPS to private.

This isn't true, at least for 9th and 10th--I know kids at Sidwell and NCS. To the extent it's true for the rare kid out there, after factoring in ECs, it's child abuse. And you paid $50k a year for it.

Your point about APs isn't clear. APs are a form of credentialing, where the public school kids are proving they learned the material inside and out. Kids at a Big 3 don't need that credentialing, which is why we all know that college admissions counselors don't expect as many AP classes from private school kids as from public school kids. Equally, you need to stop complaining that public school kids who took 12 APs didn't learn anything.

My kids in MCPS had teachers that wouldn't give A's either. For example, in AP Calc II. And the colleges' regional reps understand this and have already factored it in. So no using continuing to complain about it.

Also, to the RMIB booster: few kids at RMIB are gunning for MIT, instead they want ivies, and anyway RMIB with the international baccalaureate isn't a fertile ground for MIT to recruit in.

Bottom line: colleges are no longer simply accepting kids with "solid grades" and "solid ECs" and top test scores because you could afford to prep them up the wazoo. Your kid needs top grades (unweighted GPA, and factoring in what the admissions reps know about your school's grading policies) and to knock the ECs out of the ballpark with state and preferably national recognition (like my kid did, coming from public).
- A dozen APs aren't a boost except as credentialing, as pointed out above (and the weighting for APs doesn't change anything because most top colleges take your kid's transcript apart and run it through their own weighting schemes).
- Legacy is no longer a hook at most colleges unless your legacy kid with "solid ECs" comes with a huge donation.
- Being able to pay for intensive test prep from junior year (we know one private school family who did this from HS freshman year) is no longer a boost in a test-optional environment.

How hypocritical if the goal is equity. Do you have any idea how expensive ECs are to participate in? How most kids have zero access to scientific research or whatever? Test scores are the most equitable thing out there. Poor kids are working at Burger King after school as their EC.

No, test scores reflect expensive and tailored tutoring (we've been there), and poor kids are stuck with the generic once-a-week-for-one-month tutoring their HS offers. But you know this....

Colleges love kids that worked after school instead of flying their horse around the country. If you put work in your application, combined with great grades and recs, it's like admissions gold. But you know this....

Lots of public schools have practically free athletic options, even crew at several MCPS schools. DC's ivy had lots of football and baseball recruits. Not everything has to be about fencing (we've also been there). But you know this....

Oh yeah colleges are falling all over themselves for the kids with good grades who went to rough schools and worked at BK after school.

This is a fantasy to make yourself feel better.

This is how the world works these days. You added the part about "rough schools" and those kids do face extra hurdles. But yes, U Penn will take a Montgomery Blair kid who worked 4-6 hrs/day to support their family and save for college over your pampered kid with "solid ECs" in a heartbeat.

No they won’t, because that Montgomery Blair kid will not have the grades/classes to even get a second look. The myth that poor/first-gen kids waltz into top colleges because of URM preferences is just that- a myth. The very few extraordinary kids who work substantial PT jobs and take APs and get great grades? Sure. But it is extremely hard to do that. “Poor” kids are not just like your kid except poor.

But if a poor kid excels academically, yes they will take the one who works a job and had to struggle to excel academically vs your rich kid who has every privilege in the world. I'm ok with that. They get to make a choice between two really (and equally) smart kids. That "poor" kid who gets in is just as smart as your kid, but they had to work hard and didn't get to play travel soccer or fencing or name the EC. Instead they had to work a job, or take care of an ailing family member, etc. They have overcome a lot in life to get to that point. Your kid had life handed to them, relatively speaking. And your kid will do fine wherever they go with their support system. For that kid, getting into a great college will be life changing.

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Anonymous wrote:Wow- I went to a TT SLAC in the 90s from NCS with a similar GPA and a 1480 SAT.

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Anonymous wrote:“You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS. Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin. “

I am an NCS parent of a senior. We would be dancing on the rooftops if our DD got into Wisconsin. It was a rejection. We are looking at options much, much lower on the USNWR list. Think 75-120.

what is your child's approx. GPA? NCS parent here.

GPA is 3.4. ACT is 33

That truly sucks. All the grade inflation at public schools and test optional is so frustrating.

This is so tone deaf. You realize that “back in the day,” elite colleges only let in certain types of people (originally WASP-Y men from certain families and high schools). Broadening access to a wider swath of kids is a GOOD thing for the colleges and for the country vs having something more like an oligarchy of access. Private school kids do not need MORE protection and benefits. They are going to be fine.

-parent of private school kid who didn’t have a great college outcome

I don’t need a lesson from you about “back in the day”, but thanks private school parent. I was first gen to go to college from LM family. No one said anything about protections or benefits. A meritocracy should be the goal. Not for public schools to inflate grades so that a 4.0 has no more meaning.

So in other words, you want to pull down the ladder behind you.

Not at all. I don’t think my kid should be up against MCPS kids who get Bs and then “show improvement” and all of a sudden it’s an A. Give me a break.

While that's available, it's not what's happening in most MCPS classes. Give me a break. Even if it happened extensively, is improvement such a bad thing, especially if we're measuring over a semester?