Disclosing atheism

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I just say I’m not religious

As do I. People usually just interpret that as I don’t go to church vs. I don’t believe in a higher power. Or I say I was raised Catholic (true) but don’t expand. I think atheism is like the last taboo thing in the US. I think it’s changing as young people distance themselves from religion.

More taboo than, say, BDSM, being either progressive or MAGA in the wrong crowd, or talking about your STD in public? The victimhood is strong.

Victimhood? I said taboo lady. I don’t see myself as victim. But surveys have shown that Americans (not the younger ones) don’t look too kindly on atheists. I don’t think I’m going to be persecuted but I just don’t want to deal with the follow up questions/assumptions of saying I’m an atheist. I also don’t feel the need to debate people on their beliefs. Btw no one plays the victim hood card harder than extreme (notice I didn’t say all) Christians in this country who think Muslims are taking over/Christmas is being stolen/whatever else FOX/OAN tells them.

I see your point, but wish you would occasionally experiment with using the term atheist to describe yourself. Maybe you could think of a stock reply to any question. And no one ever has to debate others about their atheism. You could just say you don't want to discuss it further, and change the subject.

Also, could be that some people who want to talk, are on the road to non-belief themselves and are fascinated to meet someone who has already completed the journey.

The wishful thinking among you atheists constantly astonishes me.

I wish religious people would keep their religion out of my government, out of my life, and out of my body.

How’s that for wishful thinking?

people elected to public office are allowed to be religious. In fact- the vast majority of elected officials claim to be Christian and speak about their faith.

How is your life affected by religion?

It goes way beyond politicians practicing their own religion. Politicians (and SCOTUS justices) are FORCING their religious beliefs on others.

How? You keep saying they are forcing religion on people but have zero examples.

You don't read the news?

abortion
anti-LGBTQ
book banning
etc

book banning? You can buy any book you want on amazon.com. Tell me the title of what books the “religious” government has banned and you are unable to purchase and read.

anti-lgbtq? What has the “religious” government done to be considered anti-lgbtqa? Examples?


So because the SCOTUS allowed states to make their own decisions about abortion laws- your right to what has been taken away? What has the “religious” government done besides allowed each state to decide their own laws? Examples?

You should find a new news source if you aren’t aware of current events.

https://bookriot.com/groups-banning-books-2022/amp/

https://www.aclu.org/legislative-attacks-on-lgbtq-rights

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:waiting for pp who claimed religious people have done things to affect their life to give examples…I suspect there will be no examples. The same way atheists who claim they have been attacked by religious people but don’t detail any attacks other than being asked to church by neighbors or going to youth group as a child with a classmate. Or a new neighbor asking: “What is your faith?” Which is a very ridiculous claim- nobody says “what is your faith?” That’s so embarrassingly fake the op should be ashamed! Take a creative writing class, anti-theist op.

It’s also odd and fake that children (now adults posting here) were raised in atheist families but their parents didn’t help them cope with the outside world or stop supposed religious attacks on their atheist children. So your atheist parents just let everyone attack you as a kid and never intervened or told you to speak up and tell them if an adult or another child was attacking you? Fake! If your parents let you be attacked and did nothing- they were either negligent and uncaring jerks, or you are making crap up. You spent your childhood sad and anxious and depressed because religious people were mean to you. You are now an adult with anxiety and depression because of the treatment- what did your parents do? Ignore you and your emotional and mental needs your entire childhood? Allow adults to badger and harass you, allow other kids to bully you?

I was attacked by evangelical family member when I was a kid. I’ve given details before.

Religious nutters have taken away my bodily autonomy. And they are trying to take away transgender rights as we speak.

you have not given details of your attack by an evangelical family member before. You just say that so you don’t ever have
to give details. Of course- your parents let your family member attack you and did nothing. They let their kid be attacked and completely were ok with it.

You have problems. Big ones.

My parents weren’t aware it was happening at the time. I can dig up the link if you want.

My only problems are the religious nutters trying to force their beliefs on me.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I just say I’m not religious

As do I. People usually just interpret that as I don’t go to church vs. I don’t believe in a higher power. Or I say I was raised Catholic (true) but don’t expand. I think atheism is like the last taboo thing in the US. I think it’s changing as young people distance themselves from religion.

More taboo than, say, BDSM, being either progressive or MAGA in the wrong crowd, or talking about your STD in public? The victimhood is strong.

Victimhood? I said taboo lady. I don’t see myself as victim. But surveys have shown that Americans (not the younger ones) don’t look too kindly on atheists. I don’t think I’m going to be persecuted but I just don’t want to deal with the follow up questions/assumptions of saying I’m an atheist. I also don’t feel the need to debate people on their beliefs. Btw no one plays the victim hood card harder than extreme (notice I didn’t say all) Christians in this country who think Muslims are taking over/Christmas is being stolen/whatever else FOX/OAN tells them.

I see your point, but wish you would occasionally experiment with using the term atheist to describe yourself. Maybe you could think of a stock reply to any question. And no one ever has to debate others about their atheism. You could just say you don't want to discuss it further, and change the subject.

Also, could be that some people who want to talk, are on the road to non-belief themselves and are fascinated to meet someone who has already completed the journey.

The wishful thinking among you atheists constantly astonishes me.

I wish religious people would keep their religion out of my government, out of my life, and out of my body.

How’s that for wishful thinking?

people elected to public office are allowed to be religious. In fact- the vast majority of elected officials claim to be Christian and speak about their faith.

How is your life affected by religion?

It goes way beyond politicians practicing their own religion. Politicians (and SCOTUS justices) are FORCING their religious beliefs on others.

How? You keep saying they are forcing religion on people but have zero examples.

You don't read the news?

abortion
anti-LGBTQ
book banning
etc

book banning? You can buy any book you want on amazon.com. Tell me the title of what books the “religious” government has banned and you are unable to purchase and read.

anti-lgbtq? What has the “religious” government done to be considered anti-lgbtqa? Examples?


So because the SCOTUS allowed states to make their own decisions about abortion laws- your right to what has been taken away? What has the “religious” government done besides allowed each state to decide their own laws? Examples?

Just taking the abortion ruling of the Court. The majority of Americans believe abortion should be available for all women. That was the established practice in the United States. The Justices even said in confirmation hearings they believed that should continue to be the law of the land. When a case came to them on the court, they reversed precedent of the Court (against the wishes of the American public). The conservatives on the Court have been clear about their own beliefs on abortion and how they have been informed by their catholic faith. If you don’t see that as an example of imposing religious views on an unwilling majority, I don’t know what to tell you.

Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization, No. 19-1392, 597 U.S. ___ (2022), is a decision of the U.S. Supreme Court in which the court held that the Constitution of the United States does not confer a right to abortion. The court's decision overruled both Roe v. Wade (1973) and Planned Parenthood v. Casey (1992), returning to individual states the power to regulate any aspect of abortion not protected by federal law.

The majority held that abortion is not a constitutional right as the Constitution does not mention it and its substantive right was not "deeply rooted" in the country's history.

Abortion is not listed in the Constitution as a protected right.

In the introductory statement, Alito, writing for the majority, summarized a constitutional historical view of abortion rights, saying, "The Constitution makes no reference to abortion, and no such right is implicitly protected by any constitutional provision." Alito based his argument on the criterion from Washington v. Glucksberg (1997) that a right must be "deeply rooted" in the nation's history.

That provision [the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment] has been held to guarantee some rights that are not mentioned in the Constitution, but any such right must be "deeply rooted in this Nation's history and tradition" and "implicit in the concept of ordered liberty."

— Dobbs, slip opinion p. 5 (Opinion of the Court)[146]

Alito wrote, "abortion couldn't be constitutionally protected. Until the latter part of the 20th century, such a right was entirely unknown in American law. Indeed, when the Fourteenth Amendment was adopted, three quarters of the States made abortion a crime at all stages of pregnancy." He wrote, "Roe was egregiously wrong from the start. Its reasoning was exceptionally weak, and the decision has had damaging consequences. And far from bringing about a national settlement of the abortion issue, Roe and Casey have enflamed debate and deepened division."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dobbs_v._Jackson_Women%27s_Health_Organization

The overturning of Roe did not make abortion illegal nationwide. Abortion remains legal in most states.

In response to Dobbs, several states allowing abortion considered or adopted legislation expanding abortion access.

Every women deserves the right to privacy/bodily autonomy. It’s a shame your religion is hell bent on taking away women’s rights.

All stupid lies- just like religion is “banning books.” You are wrong because neither of those things are happening. You can’t even address the legal points- just spew lies.

Abortion is banned in some states in the US. Because the religious nutters forced their beliefs on the rest of us.

States are allowed to make their own laws. There is nothing nutty about that.

People are not “nutters” if they think that abortion is not right because it kills an unborn baby. That’s a completely sane and valid opinion to have.

I know many people who are not religious at all that think abortion is wrong. They say that they don’t need religion or God to guide their opinion/moral choices.

I think the pp claiming that religious people are “banning books” is nutty. That’s completely false.

Bodily autonomy is a basic human right that all people should have in all stated.

The anti-women activists on the SCOTUS are all Catholic.

Thinking you should be able to force others to comply with your religious beliefs is nutters.

[Anonymous]

I mentioned it somewhere on this and other threads:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/589061.page

I’m sure that my family member would be happy to confirm to you that I’m going to hell. He doesn’t hold back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mentioned it somewhere on this and other threads:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/589061.page

I’m sure that my family member would be happy to confirm to you that I’m going to hell. He doesn’t hold back.

DP -- Thanks for going to the trouble to find it. Sounds awful. Sorry you went through that. Other people's stories were pretty bad too.

Of course, not all religious people are so aggressive, but those who are, and take advantage of children, thwart their goal of bringing people in to Jesus and instead drive them away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mentioned it somewhere on this and other threads:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/589061.page

I’m sure that my family member would be happy to confirm to you that I’m going to hell. He doesn’t hold back.

DP -- Thanks for going to the trouble to find it. Sounds awful. Sorry you went through that. Other people's stories were pretty bad too.

Of course, not all religious people are so aggressive, but those who are, and take advantage of children, thwart their goal of bringing people in to Jesus and instead drive them away.

All it accomplished was making me avoid evangelicals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:waiting for pp who claimed religious people have done things to affect their life to give examples…I suspect there will be no examples. The same way atheists who claim they have been attacked by religious people but don’t detail any attacks other than being asked to church by neighbors or going to youth group as a child with a classmate. Or a new neighbor asking: “What is your faith?” Which is a very ridiculous claim- nobody says “what is your faith?” That’s so embarrassingly fake the op should be ashamed! Take a creative writing class, anti-theist op.

It’s also odd and fake that children (now adults posting here) were raised in atheist families but their parents didn’t help them cope with the outside world or stop supposed religious attacks on their atheist children. So your atheist parents just let everyone attack you as a kid and never intervened or told you to speak up and tell them if an adult or another child was attacking you? Fake! If your parents let you be attacked and did nothing- they were either negligent and uncaring jerks, or you are making crap up. You spent your childhood sad and anxious and depressed because religious people were mean to you. You are now an adult with anxiety and depression because of the treatment- what did your parents do? Ignore you and your emotional and mental needs your entire childhood? Allow adults to badger and harass you, allow other kids to bully you?

I was attacked by evangelical family member when I was a kid. I’ve given details before.

Religious nutters have taken away my bodily autonomy. And they are trying to take away transgender rights as we speak.

you have not given details of your attack by an evangelical family member before. You just say that so you don’t ever have
to give details. Of course- your parents let your family member attack you and did nothing. They let their kid be attacked and completely were ok with it.

You have problems. Big ones.

My parents weren’t aware it was happening at the time. I can dig up the link if you want.

My only problems are the religious nutters trying to force their beliefs on me.

Your mom went out of town and a family who graciously looked after you wouldn’t leave you home alone while they looked after you. Your mom was lucky they took good care of her ungrateful teenager. You were not abused by anyone and have grown up into a bratty and delusional adult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:waiting for pp who claimed religious people have done things to affect their life to give examples…I suspect there will be no examples. The same way atheists who claim they have been attacked by religious people but don’t detail any attacks other than being asked to church by neighbors or going to youth group as a child with a classmate. Or a new neighbor asking: “What is your faith?” Which is a very ridiculous claim- nobody says “what is your faith?” That’s so embarrassingly fake the op should be ashamed! Take a creative writing class, anti-theist op.

It’s also odd and fake that children (now adults posting here) were raised in atheist families but their parents didn’t help them cope with the outside world or stop supposed religious attacks on their atheist children. So your atheist parents just let everyone attack you as a kid and never intervened or told you to speak up and tell them if an adult or another child was attacking you? Fake! If your parents let you be attacked and did nothing- they were either negligent and uncaring jerks, or you are making crap up. You spent your childhood sad and anxious and depressed because religious people were mean to you. You are now an adult with anxiety and depression because of the treatment- what did your parents do? Ignore you and your emotional and mental needs your entire childhood? Allow adults to badger and harass you, allow other kids to bully you?

I was attacked by evangelical family member when I was a kid. I’ve given details before.

Religious nutters have taken away my bodily autonomy. And they are trying to take away transgender rights as we speak.

you have not given details of your attack by an evangelical family member before. You just say that so you don’t ever have
to give details. Of course- your parents let your family member attack you and did nothing. They let their kid be attacked and completely were ok with it.

You have problems. Big ones.

My parents weren’t aware it was happening at the time. I can dig up the link if you want.

My only problems are the religious nutters trying to force their beliefs on me.

Your mom went out of town and a family who graciously looked after you wouldn’t leave you home alone while they looked after you. Your mom was lucky they took good care of her ungrateful teenager. You were not abused by anyone and have grown up into a bratty and delusional adult.

WTF are you talking about?

It was at a large family event. My parents were mingling with other people at the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:waiting for pp who claimed religious people have done things to affect their life to give examples…I suspect there will be no examples. The same way atheists who claim they have been attacked by religious people but don’t detail any attacks other than being asked to church by neighbors or going to youth group as a child with a classmate. Or a new neighbor asking: “What is your faith?” Which is a very ridiculous claim- nobody says “what is your faith?” That’s so embarrassingly fake the op should be ashamed! Take a creative writing class, anti-theist op.

It’s also odd and fake that children (now adults posting here) were raised in atheist families but their parents didn’t help them cope with the outside world or stop supposed religious attacks on their atheist children. So your atheist parents just let everyone attack you as a kid and never intervened or told you to speak up and tell them if an adult or another child was attacking you? Fake! If your parents let you be attacked and did nothing- they were either negligent and uncaring jerks, or you are making crap up. You spent your childhood sad and anxious and depressed because religious people were mean to you. You are now an adult with anxiety and depression because of the treatment- what did your parents do? Ignore you and your emotional and mental needs your entire childhood? Allow adults to badger and harass you, allow other kids to bully you?

I was attacked by evangelical family member when I was a kid. I’ve given details before.

Religious nutters have taken away my bodily autonomy. And they are trying to take away transgender rights as we speak.

you have not given details of your attack by an evangelical family member before. You just say that so you don’t ever have
to give details. Of course- your parents let your family member attack you and did nothing. They let their kid be attacked and completely were ok with it.

You have problems. Big ones.

My parents weren’t aware it was happening at the time. I can dig up the link if you want.

My only problems are the religious nutters trying to force their beliefs on me.

Your mom went out of town and a family who graciously looked after you wouldn’t leave you home alone while they looked after you. Your mom was lucky they took good care of her ungrateful teenager. You were not abused by anyone and have grown up into a bratty and delusional adult.

WTF are you talking about?

It was at a large family event. My parents were mingling with other people at the time.

Ships passing in the night

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just say I’m not religious

As do I. People usually just interpret that as I don’t go to church vs. I don’t believe in a higher power. Or I say I was raised Catholic (true) but don’t expand. I think atheism is like the last taboo thing in the US. I think it’s changing as young people distance themselves from religion.

More taboo than, say, BDSM, being either progressive or MAGA in the wrong crowd, or talking about your STD in public? The victimhood is strong.

Victimhood? I said taboo lady. I don’t see myself as victim. But surveys have shown that Americans (not the younger ones) don’t look too kindly on atheists. I don’t think I’m going to be persecuted but I just don’t want to deal with the follow up questions/assumptions of saying I’m an atheist. I also don’t feel the need to debate people on their beliefs. Btw no one plays the victim hood card harder than extreme (notice I didn’t say all) Christians in this country who think Muslims are taking over/Christmas is being stolen/whatever else FOX/OAN tells them.

I see your point, but wish you would occasionally experiment with using the term atheist to describe yourself. Maybe you could think of a stock reply to any question. And no one ever has to debate others about their atheism. You could just say you don't want to discuss it further, and change the subject.

Also, could be that some people who want to talk, are on the road to non-belief themselves and are fascinated to meet someone who has already completed the journey.

The wishful thinking among you atheists constantly astonishes me.

I wish religious people would keep their religion out of my government, out of my life, and out of my body.

How’s that for wishful thinking?

people elected to public office are allowed to be religious. In fact- the vast majority of elected officials claim to be Christian and speak about their faith.

How is your life affected by religion?

It goes way beyond politicians practicing their own religion. Politicians (and SCOTUS justices) are FORCING their religious beliefs on others.

How? You keep saying they are forcing religion on people but have zero examples.

You don't read the news?

abortion
anti-LGBTQ
book banning
etc

book banning? You can buy any book you want on amazon.com. Tell me the title of what books the “religious” government has banned and you are unable to purchase and read.

anti-lgbtq? What has the “religious” government done to be considered anti-lgbtqa? Examples?


So because the SCOTUS allowed states to make their own decisions about abortion laws- your right to what has been taken away? What has the “religious” government done besides allowed each state to decide their own laws? Examples?

Just taking the abortion ruling of the Court. The majority of Americans believe abortion should be available for all women. That was the established practice in the United States. The Justices even said in confirmation hearings they believed that should continue to be the law of the land. When a case came to them on the court, they reversed precedent of the Court (against the wishes of the American public). The conservatives on the Court have been clear about their own beliefs on abortion and how they have been informed by their catholic faith. If you don’t see that as an example of imposing religious views on an unwilling majority, I don’t know what to tell you.

Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization, No. 19-1392, 597 U.S. ___ (2022), is a decision of the U.S. Supreme Court in which the court held that the Constitution of the United States does not confer a right to abortion. The court's decision overruled both Roe v. Wade (1973) and Planned Parenthood v. Casey (1992), returning to individual states the power to regulate any aspect of abortion not protected by federal law.

The majority held that abortion is not a constitutional right as the Constitution does not mention it and its substantive right was not "deeply rooted" in the country's history.

Abortion is not listed in the Constitution as a protected right.

In the introductory statement, Alito, writing for the majority, summarized a constitutional historical view of abortion rights, saying, "The Constitution makes no reference to abortion, and no such right is implicitly protected by any constitutional provision." Alito based his argument on the criterion from Washington v. Glucksberg (1997) that a right must be "deeply rooted" in the nation's history.

That provision [the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment] has been held to guarantee some rights that are not mentioned in the Constitution, but any such right must be "deeply rooted in this Nation's history and tradition" and "implicit in the concept of ordered liberty."

— Dobbs, slip opinion p. 5 (Opinion of the Court)[146]

Alito wrote, "abortion couldn't be constitutionally protected. Until the latter part of the 20th century, such a right was entirely unknown in American law. Indeed, when the Fourteenth Amendment was adopted, three quarters of the States made abortion a crime at all stages of pregnancy." He wrote, "Roe was egregiously wrong from the start. Its reasoning was exceptionally weak, and the decision has had damaging consequences. And far from bringing about a national settlement of the abortion issue, Roe and Casey have enflamed debate and deepened division."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dobbs_v._Jackson_Women%27s_Health_Organization

The overturning of Roe did not make abortion illegal nationwide. Abortion remains legal in most states.

In response to Dobbs, several states allowing abortion considered or adopted legislation expanding abortion access.

"Deeply rooted in our nation's history," "protected by the constitution," and/or "entirely unknown in American Law" doesn't allow for our society to change or grow. Of course women's rights weren't written into the Constitution or protected by American Law, because women weren't considered their own independent people - they were supposed to be protected by their men (fathers and husbands).

And how long does it take for something to become "deeply rooted" in our history? Women have been here seeking our own rights and autonomy since the nation's founding.

[Anonymous]

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I'll make this easier on you. The well-documented history of how humans invented Santa provides the falsification you keep bleating about.

No, it doesn't. "no empirical test can establish that it is false". What empirical test can prove there is no Santa?

I agree it is ridiculous to believe he is real, by the way, because there is no evidence he is. But the claim was he is provably false. That has not been shown, here or anywhere, by any empirical test.

You can't see it because you've gone down a narrow semantic road that apparently rules out seeing anything in the way of documented historical proof.

This "narrow semantic road ", as you call it, is exactly how you come to believe everything else you believe except for your god.

Your argument is ridiculous. Have a nice day.

Well, when you put it that way, with all those counterpoints, facts and citations, it is hard to argue.

You've been provided counterpoints, facts, and citations and dismissed them.

Did anyone actually prove that Santa/Zeus didn't exist?

Santa, yes -- he does not exist. He is a child's supernatural being who only brings presents to Christian children at Christmas. Kids realize at about the age of 10 that there is no Santa, then later, they play Santa for their own kids.

Zeus - no proof that he did or didn't exist, but no one believes in him anymore. He's an Ancient Greek god.

No. No one proved Santa does not exist. You can't.

Not empirical proof, perhaps, but solid reasoning. Adults know that there is no Santa because they become Santa to their own children. As has been pointed out, Ghosts are a better argument for the nonexistence of supernatural beings, because some adults believe in ghosts, despite the lack of evidence.

And some of us don't see any difference between Santa, Ghosts, and Gods. Which is the point. There is an equal lack of evidence for all of them.

Exactly. Either you believe supernatural forces are real. Or not.

Santa is not "supernatural" - he's fictional. An adult believing in Santa wouldn't make presents appear under their tree in the night, unless they have a very dedicated parent, spouse, or friend willing to continue playing the role. Satellite imaging of the globe would also have picked up a massive workshop, reindeer stables, and elf village in the North Pole if one existed. Just because you can't see the difference between Santa and God (or ghosts; I'll give you ghosts as a better argument), doesn't mean there isn't a difference. The supernatural is something unexplained by science or outside of the laws of nature. Santa's powers would be supernatural if they were real, but they are explained by the fact that many adults play the role of Santa, so there are not actually any laws of nature being broken, except maybe some human nature when an adult who is notoriously bad at keeping secrets is able to maintain their secret Santa identity from their kids for years on end.

You make good arguments about Santa, but what about God? Sometimes he answers prayers and sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes people are fervently praying for opposite outcomes. When one side wins does that mean their prayers were answered?

There's no satellite imaging of God and we now know, thanks to space exploration, that there's no atmosphere in heaven, so people who rise bodily, like Jesus, couldn't breathe up there.

I'm not Christian and don't believe in God as someone who answers prayers or doesn't answer prayers. God is not like a magical genie granting wishes, at least not in my conception of God. As for Jesus, since I'm not Christian, I'm with you on the whole rising from the dead thing not making any sense.

Interesting -- what does make sense to you in your conception of God?

I'm Jewish and I don't really feel the need to define an exact nature of God. There are lots of examples throughout the texts of the different ways that God acts or doesn't act in our lives. Sometimes God is very active (Creation, the Exodus, Jonah) and sometimes God is conspicuously absent (Esther). Sometimes God answers prayers (Hannah) and sometimes not (the first 400 years in Egypt). Sometimes there seems to be a divine plan behind personal suffering (Joseph) and sometimes there is no rhyme or reason (Job). It's enough for me to believe that God exists in all these different ways of being.

Interesting. Reading through this makes me understand why there seem to be so many non-believing Jews. To me, the erratic nature of God strongly suggests his complete absence.

Aaaannnnd pp thought she could come on here and join in the Christianity-bashing (magical genie, resurrection doesn’t make sense) and be treated better.

I apologize if my comments appeared to bash Christianity. And my use of "magic genie" was glib. I mean that I disagree with the view of God as someone we can pray to in a wish-granting kind of way. For that matter, many Christians also disagree with that view of God, which I didn't specify in my initial comment.

The resurrection doesn't make sense to me. It's something that Christians take on faith, the same way I take parts of my religion on faith that Christians may not find much sense in.

As for being "treated better," I answered a question about my understanding of God and was met with genuine interest and engagement on the topic. I don't see anything offensive in the exchange.

I am the poster who originally engaged you in conversation and I appreciate your response. Interesting that you see God as reflecting humans, rather than as an entity above us pulling strings (more the Christian perception). I was not offended by any of your comments and feel there was no need to apologize.

Thank you! If we're made in God's image, then it only makes sense (to me) to view the God-human relationship as one that reflects each other. It's more accurate to say that humans reflect God, rather than God reflecting humans, but either way, we can see some of our emotions and behavior in God.

You're welcome. Being made in God's image is a Christian concept too, that I recall hearing during my church-going days. I'm now an atheist. But I thought of it more as humans and God looking like each other, not being like each other. God, and his son, Jesus, always seemed perfect and humans clearly were not.

That could have been more my own deduction than anything I learned in Sunday school, which was focused on rules - what to do to get into heaven and how to avoid going to hell.

Yes, the idea of being made in God's image comes from Genesis 1:26, so it's a shared belief between Christianity and Judaism. Judaism doesn't have the same imagery for God that Christianity does. We do anthropomorphize God in descriptions, like God having an outstretched arm or God's nostrils flaring to create a mighty wind. But they are understood in Judaism as symbolism, not that God really has a body. The bearded man in the clouds (I don't mean that pejoratively, just as a description of the popular depictions of God in Christian art) is not a Jewish thing. In fact, drawing pictures of God counts as making a graven image or idolatry in Judaism.

It makes sense that the physical comparison would be more of a thing in Christianity, since Jesus is God in human form in Christian theology.

Please stop speculating about Christianity because you're always wrong. No, Christians don't think of God as a big guy with a beard in the sky, except for famous Michelangelo paintings.

No, theologically-speaking in Christianity God does not have a body, as God is omnipresent and without form. But Michaelangelo's paintings are Christian depictions of God. As are the many other artistic expressions of God mainly depicted as a bearded man, often in the sky. There are many examples documented here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_the_Father_in_Western_art and here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trinity_in_art. When Christians try to imagine God (or really most non-Christians in Christian-majority cultures, like the US), Michaelangelo's depiction or one of these other bearded men in the sky are the ones that come to mind. It's not an attack on Christianity to point that out in the context of a discussion about the different ways that one might interpret "being made in God's image."

That's incorrect, most Christians don't think of God as an old guy sitting up there on a cloud. We can separate the lovely paintings from a more nuanced conception of God.

Of course Christians can/do have a complex understanding of God. But there is ALSO a common physical representation of God in Christian art and thinking as a (usually) bearded man (usually) in the sky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:waiting for pp who claimed religious people have done things to affect their life to give examples…I suspect there will be no examples. The same way atheists who claim they have been attacked by religious people but don’t detail any attacks other than being asked to church by neighbors or going to youth group as a child with a classmate. Or a new neighbor asking: “What is your faith?” Which is a very ridiculous claim- nobody says “what is your faith?” That’s so embarrassingly fake the op should be ashamed! Take a creative writing class, anti-theist op.

It’s also odd and fake that children (now adults posting here) were raised in atheist families but their parents didn’t help them cope with the outside world or stop supposed religious attacks on their atheist children. So your atheist parents just let everyone attack you as a kid and never intervened or told you to speak up and tell them if an adult or another child was attacking you? Fake! If your parents let you be attacked and did nothing- they were either negligent and uncaring jerks, or you are making crap up. You spent your childhood sad and anxious and depressed because religious people were mean to you. You are now an adult with anxiety and depression because of the treatment- what did your parents do? Ignore you and your emotional and mental needs your entire childhood? Allow adults to badger and harass you, allow other kids to bully you?

I was attacked by evangelical family member when I was a kid. I’ve given details before.

Religious nutters have taken away my bodily autonomy. And they are trying to take away transgender rights as we speak.

you have not given details of your attack by an evangelical family member before. You just say that so you don’t ever have
to give details. Of course- your parents let your family member attack you and did nothing. They let their kid be attacked and completely were ok with it.

You have problems. Big ones.

My parents weren’t aware it was happening at the time. I can dig up the link if you want.

My only problems are the religious nutters trying to force their beliefs on me.

Your mom went out of town and a family who graciously looked after you wouldn’t leave you home alone while they looked after you. Your mom was lucky they took good care of her ungrateful teenager. You were not abused by anyone and have grown up into a bratty and delusional adult.

WTF are you talking about?

It was at a large family event. My parents were mingling with other people at the time.

You might want to provide the timestamp for your comment on the linked thread. Looks like PP is assuming you're the OP in that one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:waiting for pp who claimed religious people have done things to affect their life to give examples…I suspect there will be no examples. The same way atheists who claim they have been attacked by religious people but don’t detail any attacks other than being asked to church by neighbors or going to youth group as a child with a classmate. Or a new neighbor asking: “What is your faith?” Which is a very ridiculous claim- nobody says “what is your faith?” That’s so embarrassingly fake the op should be ashamed! Take a creative writing class, anti-theist op.

It’s also odd and fake that children (now adults posting here) were raised in atheist families but their parents didn’t help them cope with the outside world or stop supposed religious attacks on their atheist children. So your atheist parents just let everyone attack you as a kid and never intervened or told you to speak up and tell them if an adult or another child was attacking you? Fake! If your parents let you be attacked and did nothing- they were either negligent and uncaring jerks, or you are making crap up. You spent your childhood sad and anxious and depressed because religious people were mean to you. You are now an adult with anxiety and depression because of the treatment- what did your parents do? Ignore you and your emotional and mental needs your entire childhood? Allow adults to badger and harass you, allow other kids to bully you?

I was attacked by evangelical family member when I was a kid. I’ve given details before.

Religious nutters have taken away my bodily autonomy. And they are trying to take away transgender rights as we speak.

you have not given details of your attack by an evangelical family member before. You just say that so you don’t ever have
to give details. Of course- your parents let your family member attack you and did nothing. They let their kid be attacked and completely were ok with it.

You have problems. Big ones.

My parents weren’t aware it was happening at the time. I can dig up the link if you want.

My only problems are the religious nutters trying to force their beliefs on me.

Your mom went out of town and a family who graciously looked after you wouldn’t leave you home alone while they looked after you. Your mom was lucky they took good care of her ungrateful teenager. You were not abused by anyone and have grown up into a bratty and delusional adult.

WTF are you talking about?

It was at a large family event. My parents were mingling with other people at the time.

You might want to provide the timestamp for your comment on the linked thread. Looks like PP is assuming you're the OP in that one.

That thread is hilarious. An adult atheist was taken in and cared for and fed for multiple days for free by a family who regularly attended church. Op stated her mom (no mention of dad) went out of town somewhere, no details about mom leaving for days-just that this family agreed to watch her.

Op had to attend church services/youth group with the family watching her. DESPITE her MOTHER arranging specifically for adults to care for her daughter and her mother not leaving her daughter alone, many atheists and anti-theists posted op should have been left alone at her host’s home. (Which would not be what her mother wanted, btw.)

Op is still traumatized and upset her mom let a Christian family care for her. Never mind a family took her in as her mother needed, fed and sheltered her, looked to her safety. Atheist pp discards all that and is still upset the family took her to their church.

So another pp was at a large family gathering and a relative told her she was “going to hell.” Mom and Dad of course were not around and pp didn’t tell them she was attacked verbally and condemned to hell by a family member. The atheist people posting here never told their parents about these condemnations to burn in hell, why not? You’d think if an adult at a family gathering went off on a kid and condemned them loudly to burn in hell some other adults would hear the conversation and step in, comfort the child, tell the parents, or all 3. Now pp is claiming all the adults at a large family gathering ignored a male family member yelling that a child would be condemned to hell and/or burn in hell. Really? Nobody would notice that and say anything?

That just doesn’t seem real to me. That sounds as fake as the op who said her new neighbor came to dinner and asked her “what her faith is.” Again: hello, new neighbor, good to meet you. Sure do miss my church. Anyway-what is your FAITH?” is another made up atheist troll situation.

I do believe the atheist who was dumped off on a religious family by her mom and is still traumatized by it years later is real. She doesn’t have self-awareness to realize the family that took her in only did it because they were religious and their beliefs to help and care for others were the reason they helped her and her mom. Note no atheist or anti-theist family watched her for free for days while she sulked and pouted and took up space in their home.

Yeah- the atheist whose mom needed child care and just coincidentally a religious family took her in lacks any sense of perspective or understanding of the years ago situation and is still posting about it decades later. I would hazard a guess she has never taken a kid in to provide child care when a friend or acquaintance has been in need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mentioned it somewhere on this and other threads:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/589061.page

I’m sure that my family member would be happy to confirm to you that I’m going to hell. He doesn’t hold back.

DP -- Thanks for going to the trouble to find it. Sounds awful. Sorry you went through that. Other people's stories were pretty bad too.

Of course, not all religious people are so aggressive, but those who are, and take advantage of children, thwart their goal of bringing people in to Jesus and instead drive them away.

All it accomplished was making me avoid evangelicals.

All you're accomplishing is making is avoid atheists who are hateful and aggressive. Which is a shame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:waiting for pp who claimed religious people have done things to affect their life to give examples…I suspect there will be no examples. The same way atheists who claim they have been attacked by religious people but don’t detail any attacks other than being asked to church by neighbors or going to youth group as a child with a classmate. Or a new neighbor asking: “What is your faith?” Which is a very ridiculous claim- nobody says “what is your faith?” That’s so embarrassingly fake the op should be ashamed! Take a creative writing class, anti-theist op.

It’s also odd and fake that children (now adults posting here) were raised in atheist families but their parents didn’t help them cope with the outside world or stop supposed religious attacks on their atheist children. So your atheist parents just let everyone attack you as a kid and never intervened or told you to speak up and tell them if an adult or another child was attacking you? Fake! If your parents let you be attacked and did nothing- they were either negligent and uncaring jerks, or you are making crap up. You spent your childhood sad and anxious and depressed because religious people were mean to you. You are now an adult with anxiety and depression because of the treatment- what did your parents do? Ignore you and your emotional and mental needs your entire childhood? Allow adults to badger and harass you, allow other kids to bully you?

I was attacked by evangelical family member when I was a kid. I’ve given details before.

Religious nutters have taken away my bodily autonomy. And they are trying to take away transgender rights as we speak.

you have not given details of your attack by an evangelical family member before. You just say that so you don’t ever have
to give details. Of course- your parents let your family member attack you and did nothing. They let their kid be attacked and completely were ok with it.

You have problems. Big ones.

My parents weren’t aware it was happening at the time. I can dig up the link if you want.

My only problems are the religious nutters trying to force their beliefs on me.

Your mom went out of town and a family who graciously looked after you wouldn’t leave you home alone while they looked after you. Your mom was lucky they took good care of her ungrateful teenager. You were not abused by anyone and have grown up into a bratty and delusional adult.

WTF are you talking about?

It was at a large family event. My parents were mingling with other people at the time.

You might want to provide the timestamp for your comment on the linked thread. Looks like PP is assuming you're the OP in that one.

That thread is hilarious. An adult atheist was taken in and cared for and fed for multiple days for free by a family who regularly attended church. Op stated her mom (no mention of dad) went out of town somewhere, no details about mom leaving for days-just that this family agreed to watch her.

Op had to attend church services/youth group with the family watching her. DESPITE her MOTHER arranging specifically for adults to care for her daughter and her mother not leaving her daughter alone, many atheists and anti-theists posted op should have been left alone at her host’s home. (Which would not be what her mother wanted, btw.)

Op is still traumatized and upset her mom let a Christian family care for her. Never mind a family took her in as her mother needed, fed and sheltered her, looked to her safety. Atheist pp discards all that and is still upset the family took her to their church.

So another pp was at a large family gathering and a relative told her she was “going to hell.” Mom and Dad of course were not around and pp didn’t tell them she was attacked verbally and condemned to hell by a family member. The atheist people posting here never told their parents about these condemnations to burn in hell, why not? You’d think if an adult at a family gathering went off on a kid and condemned them loudly to burn in hell some other adults would hear the conversation and step in, comfort the child, tell the parents, or all 3. Now pp is claiming all the adults at a large family gathering ignored a male family member yelling that a child would be condemned to hell and/or burn in hell. Really? Nobody would notice that and say anything?

That just doesn’t seem real to me. That sounds as fake as the op who said her new neighbor came to dinner and asked her “what her faith is.” Again: hello, new neighbor, good to meet you. Sure do miss my church. Anyway-what is your FAITH?” is another made up atheist troll situation.

I do believe the atheist who was dumped off on a religious family by her mom and is still traumatized by it years later is real. She doesn’t have self-awareness to realize the family that took her in only did it because they were religious and their beliefs to help and care for others were the reason they helped her and her mom. Note no atheist or anti-theist family watched her for free for days while she sulked and pouted and took up space in their home.

Yeah- the atheist whose mom needed child care and just coincidentally a religious family took her in lacks any sense of perspective or understanding of the years ago situation and is still posting about it decades later. I would hazard a guess she has never taken a kid in to provide child care when a friend or acquaintance has been in need.

NP. OP started another thread a year or so ago about the horrors of her parents leaving her with a Christian family who fed and clothed her, but undid it all by taking her to youth group instead of leaving her alone in a strange house.

Thank goodness not all atheists are drama queens with victim mentalities.