If Jesus wasn’t a real historical figure, where did Christian theology come from?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp with the link. It worked fine for me when I clicked on it in the post above. Here it is again:

https://knowingscripture.com/articles/is-virgin-the-correct-translation-of-isaiah-7-14

Almah is used a total of 9 times in the Bible. “When the context does offer a hint, as in Genesis 24:43, alma does clearly refer to a “virgin.” Another example is Song of Solomon 6:8, “There are sixty queens and eighty concubines, and [almot, plural] without number.” Here virgins (almot) are distinguished from queens and concubines.”

No, as TIME says, “almah” clearly means “young woman, virgin or not:

https://newsfeed.time.com/2011/03/04/controversial-bible-revision-about-that-virgin-thing/

Instead of flinging more links, how about you address the points about almah only being used 9 times, and in some of those cases it clearly refers to a virgin. Is this the battle of the links?

In those days, all young girls were considered to be virgins, unless they were concubines

yeah, I'm a DP, but in those days a young woman was pretty synonymous with virgin. Maybe the prophesy of Isaiah is somewhat questionable for other reasons, but it was pretty much understood a young woman was a virgin. No?

[Anonymous]

If Jesus wasn’t a real historical figure, where did Christian theology come from?

I do not think it's "moving the goal posts" to answer this by saying if Jesus was someone fathered by God of a virgin, then no, there was no such person.
If Jesus was a regular person whose sayings and actions are detailed in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John then yes, he was very likely a real historical figure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp with the link. It worked fine for me when I clicked on it in the post above. Here it is again:

https://knowingscripture.com/articles/is-virgin-the-correct-translation-of-isaiah-7-14

Almah is used a total of 9 times in the Bible. “When the context does offer a hint, as in Genesis 24:43, alma does clearly refer to a “virgin.” Another example is Song of Solomon 6:8, “There are sixty queens and eighty concubines, and [almot, plural] without number.” Here virgins (almot) are distinguished from queens and concubines.”

No, as TIME says, “almah” clearly means “young woman, virgin or not:

https://newsfeed.time.com/2011/03/04/controversial-bible-revision-about-that-virgin-thing/

Instead of flinging more links, how about you address the points about almah only being used 9 times, and in some of those cases it clearly refers to a virgin. Is this the battle of the links?

In those days, all young girls were considered to be virgins, unless they were concubines

yeah, I'm a DP, but in those days a young woman was pretty synonymous with virgin. Maybe the prophesy of Isaiah is somewhat questionable for other reasons, but it was pretty much understood a young woman was a virgin. No?

Only if they were unmarried. An young married woman is still an almah. Isaiah never said the woman would be unmarried.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/003463735305000105?journalCode=raeb

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp with the link. It worked fine for me when I clicked on it in the post above. Here it is again:

https://knowingscripture.com/articles/is-virgin-the-correct-translation-of-isaiah-7-14

Almah is used a total of 9 times in the Bible. “When the context does offer a hint, as in Genesis 24:43, alma does clearly refer to a “virgin.” Another example is Song of Solomon 6:8, “There are sixty queens and eighty concubines, and [almot, plural] without number.” Here virgins (almot) are distinguished from queens and concubines.”

No, as TIME says, “almah” clearly means “young woman, virgin or not:

https://newsfeed.time.com/2011/03/04/controversial-bible-revision-about-that-virgin-thing/

Instead of flinging more links, how about you address the points about almah only being used 9 times, and in some of those cases it clearly refers to a virgin. Is this the battle of the links?

In those days, all young girls were considered to be virgins, unless they were concubines

yeah, I'm a DP, but in those days a young woman was pretty synonymous with virgin. Maybe the prophesy of Isaiah is somewhat questionable for other reasons, but it was pretty much understood a young woman was a virgin. No?

Only if they were unmarried. An young married woman is still an almah. Isaiah never said the woman would be unmarried.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/003463735305000105?journalCode=raeb

ok,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If Jesus wasn’t a real historical figure, where did Christian theology come from?

I do not think it's "moving the goal posts" to answer this by saying if Jesus was someone fathered by God of a virgin, then no, there was no such person.
If Jesus was a regular person whose sayings and actions are detailed in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John then yes, he was very likely a real historical figure.

Jesus nevertheless said his mother was a Virgin
I see influences of Hinduism and eastern religion in his teaching

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp with the link. It worked fine for me when I clicked on it in the post above. Here it is again:

https://knowingscripture.com/articles/is-virgin-the-correct-translation-of-isaiah-7-14

Almah is used a total of 9 times in the Bible. “When the context does offer a hint, as in Genesis 24:43, alma does clearly refer to a “virgin.” Another example is Song of Solomon 6:8, “There are sixty queens and eighty concubines, and [almot, plural] without number.” Here virgins (almot) are distinguished from queens and concubines.”

No, as TIME says, “almah” clearly means “young woman, virgin or not:

https://newsfeed.time.com/2011/03/04/controversial-bible-revision-about-that-virgin-thing/

Instead of flinging more links, how about you address the points about almah only being used 9 times, and in some of those cases it clearly refers to a virgin. Is this the battle of the links?

In those days, all young girls were considered to be virgins, unless they were concubines

yeah, I'm a DP, but in those days a young woman was pretty synonymous with virgin. Maybe the prophesy of Isaiah is somewhat questionable for other reasons, but it was pretty much understood a young woman was a virgin. No?

DP and +1. PP can link to all the hostile (Jewish) sources she wants. It’s clear almah was interpreted both as “unmarried woman” AND “virgin” during the first century AD, including twice in the Hebrew Bible and also in the Septaguint. PP’s explanation that only one isolated Jewish translator looked at that particular part of the Septaguint is unconvincing, and she never addressed the link showing other instances in the OT where almah clearly referred to a virgin.

Anyway, these definitional arguments are getting it all back-a$$wards. Wherever you come down on this, there was a very early Christian tradition that Mary was a virgin. Instead of asking whether Matthew tried to shoehorn Jesus’ birth into Isaiah 7:14, Christians marvel at the miracle and find after the fact that it’s compatible with Isaiah. That’s called “faith.” Ask any Jew confronted with conflicting archeological evidence about Abraham.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Jesus wasn’t a real historical figure, where did Christian theology come from?

I do not think it's "moving the goal posts" to answer this by saying if Jesus was someone fathered by God of a virgin, then no, there was no such person.
If Jesus was a regular person whose sayings and actions are detailed in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John then yes, he was very likely a real historical figure.

Jesus nevertheless said his mother was a Virgin
I see influences of Hinduism and eastern religion in his teaching

I’m not sure about Hinduism but that’s interesting, could you elaborate? Various modern writers have found compatibility with Buddhism.

There were obviously Greco-Roman influences in Jesus’ era.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Jesus wasn’t a real historical figure, where did Christian theology come from?

I do not think it's "moving the goal posts" to answer this by saying if Jesus was someone fathered by God of a virgin, then no, there was no such person.
If Jesus was a regular person whose sayings and actions are detailed in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John then yes, he was very likely a real historical figure.

Jesus nevertheless said his mother was a Virgin
I see influences of Hinduism and eastern religion in his teaching

I thought it was Matthew and Luke who claimed this? And how could they possibly know?

As far as Hinduism influencing Jesus' teachings, yeah please elaborate. There are far more differences than similarities.

[Anonymous]

Well this was fun. Anybody up for debating whether the Day of Atonement comes from the almost identical Canaanite tradition, including the same word (hatah) for “sin” in both Hebrew and the Canaanite’s language?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp with the link. It worked fine for me when I clicked on it in the post above. Here it is again:

https://knowingscripture.com/articles/is-virgin-the-correct-translation-of-isaiah-7-14

Almah is used a total of 9 times in the Bible. “When the context does offer a hint, as in Genesis 24:43, alma does clearly refer to a “virgin.” Another example is Song of Solomon 6:8, “There are sixty queens and eighty concubines, and [almot, plural] without number.” Here virgins (almot) are distinguished from queens and concubines.”

No, as TIME says, “almah” clearly means “young woman, virgin or not:

https://newsfeed.time.com/2011/03/04/controversial-bible-revision-about-that-virgin-thing/

Instead of flinging more links, how about you address the points about almah only being used 9 times, and in some of those cases it clearly refers to a virgin. Is this the battle of the links?

In those days, all young girls were considered to be virgins, unless they were concubines

yeah, I'm a DP, but in those days a young woman was pretty synonymous with virgin. Maybe the prophesy of Isaiah is somewhat questionable for other reasons, but it was pretty much understood a young woman was a virgin. No?

DP and +1. PP can link to all the hostile (Jewish) sources she wants. It’s clear almah was interpreted both as “unmarried woman” AND “virgin” during the first century AD, including twice in the Hebrew Bible and also in the Septaguint. PP’s explanation that only one isolated Jewish translator looked at that particular part of the Septaguint is unconvincing, and she never addressed the link showing other instances in the OT where almah clearly referred to a virgin.

Anyway, these definitional arguments are getting it all back-a$$wards. Wherever you come down on this, there was a very early Christian tradition that Mary was a virgin. Instead of asking whether Matthew tried to shoehorn Jesus’ birth into Isaiah 7:14, Christians marvel at the miracle and find after the fact that it’s compatible with Isaiah. That’s called “faith.” Ask any Jew confronted with conflicting archeological evidence about Abraham.

Exactly -- I can't understand religious people bothering to try to prove the accuracy of the Bible, when religion is all about faith.

God didn't answer your prayers? Ah -- well God knows more what you need than you do -- he is God after all.

You don't understand God sometimes? Well, you're not meant to. You're only human. He's God!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp with the link. It worked fine for me when I clicked on it in the post above. Here it is again:

https://knowingscripture.com/articles/is-virgin-the-correct-translation-of-isaiah-7-14

Almah is used a total of 9 times in the Bible. “When the context does offer a hint, as in Genesis 24:43, alma does clearly refer to a “virgin.” Another example is Song of Solomon 6:8, “There are sixty queens and eighty concubines, and [almot, plural] without number.” Here virgins (almot) are distinguished from queens and concubines.”

No, as TIME says, “almah” clearly means “young woman, virgin or not:

https://newsfeed.time.com/2011/03/04/controversial-bible-revision-about-that-virgin-thing/

Instead of flinging more links, how about you address the points about almah only being used 9 times, and in some of those cases it clearly refers to a virgin. Is this the battle of the links?

In those days, all young girls were considered to be virgins, unless they were concubines

yeah, I'm a DP, but in those days a young woman was pretty synonymous with virgin. Maybe the prophesy of Isaiah is somewhat questionable for other reasons, but it was pretty much understood a young woman was a virgin. No?

DP and +1. PP can link to all the hostile (Jewish) sources she wants. It’s clear almah was interpreted both as “unmarried woman” AND “virgin” during the first century AD, including twice in the Hebrew Bible and also in the Septaguint. PP’s explanation that only one isolated Jewish translator looked at that particular part of the Septaguint is unconvincing, and she never addressed the link showing other instances in the OT where almah clearly referred to a virgin.

Anyway, these definitional arguments are getting it all back-a$$wards. Wherever you come down on this, there was a very early Christian tradition that Mary was a virgin. Instead of asking whether Matthew tried to shoehorn Jesus’ birth into Isaiah 7:14, Christians marvel at the miracle and find after the fact that it’s compatible with Isaiah. That’s called “faith.” Ask any Jew confronted with conflicting archeological evidence about Abraham.

Exactly -- I can't understand religious people bothering to try to prove the accuracy of the Bible, when religion is all about faith.

God didn't answer your prayers? Ah -- well God knows more what you need than you do -- he is God after all.

You don't understand God sometimes? Well, you're not meant to. You're only human. He's God!

That’s not what the previous post said, you cute little troll, you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp with the link. It worked fine for me when I clicked on it in the post above. Here it is again:

https://knowingscripture.com/articles/is-virgin-the-correct-translation-of-isaiah-7-14

Almah is used a total of 9 times in the Bible. “When the context does offer a hint, as in Genesis 24:43, alma does clearly refer to a “virgin.” Another example is Song of Solomon 6:8, “There are sixty queens and eighty concubines, and [almot, plural] without number.” Here virgins (almot) are distinguished from queens and concubines.”

No, as TIME says, “almah” clearly means “young woman, virgin or not:

https://newsfeed.time.com/2011/03/04/controversial-bible-revision-about-that-virgin-thing/

Instead of flinging more links, how about you address the points about almah only being used 9 times, and in some of those cases it clearly refers to a virgin. Is this the battle of the links?

In those days, all young girls were considered to be virgins, unless they were concubines

yeah, I'm a DP, but in those days a young woman was pretty synonymous with virgin. Maybe the prophesy of Isaiah is somewhat questionable for other reasons, but it was pretty much understood a young woman was a virgin. No?

DP and +1. PP can link to all the hostile (Jewish) sources she wants. It’s clear almah was interpreted both as “unmarried woman” AND “virgin” during the first century AD, including twice in the Hebrew Bible and also in the Septaguint. PP’s explanation that only one isolated Jewish translator looked at that particular part of the Septaguint is unconvincing, and she never addressed the link showing other instances in the OT where almah clearly referred to a virgin.

Anyway, these definitional arguments are getting it all back-a$$wards. Wherever you come down on this, there was a very early Christian tradition that Mary was a virgin. Instead of asking whether Matthew tried to shoehorn Jesus’ birth into Isaiah 7:14, Christians marvel at the miracle and find after the fact that it’s compatible with Isaiah. That’s called “faith.” Ask any Jew confronted with conflicting archeological evidence about Abraham.

Exactly -- I can't understand religious people bothering to try to prove the accuracy of the Bible, when religion is all about faith.

God didn't answer your prayers? Ah -- well God knows more what you need than you do -- he is God after all.

You don't understand God sometimes? Well, you're not meant to. You're only human. He's God!

Yeah. Does it really matter if Jesus actually existed or not? It’s the story that’s the inspiration. There are aspects that obviously aren’t true (raising from dead, etc) so why does it matter if any of it is true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp with the link. It worked fine for me when I clicked on it in the post above. Here it is again:

https://knowingscripture.com/articles/is-virgin-the-correct-translation-of-isaiah-7-14

Almah is used a total of 9 times in the Bible. “When the context does offer a hint, as in Genesis 24:43, alma does clearly refer to a “virgin.” Another example is Song of Solomon 6:8, “There are sixty queens and eighty concubines, and [almot, plural] without number.” Here virgins (almot) are distinguished from queens and concubines.”

No, as TIME says, “almah” clearly means “young woman, virgin or not:

https://newsfeed.time.com/2011/03/04/controversial-bible-revision-about-that-virgin-thing/

Instead of flinging more links, how about you address the points about almah only being used 9 times, and in some of those cases it clearly refers to a virgin. Is this the battle of the links?

In those days, all young girls were considered to be virgins, unless they were concubines

yeah, I'm a DP, but in those days a young woman was pretty synonymous with virgin. Maybe the prophesy of Isaiah is somewhat questionable for other reasons, but it was pretty much understood a young woman was a virgin. No?

DP and +1. PP can link to all the hostile (Jewish) sources she wants. It’s clear almah was interpreted both as “unmarried woman” AND “virgin” during the first century AD, including twice in the Hebrew Bible and also in the Septaguint. PP’s explanation that only one isolated Jewish translator looked at that particular part of the Septaguint is unconvincing, and she never addressed the link showing other instances in the OT where almah clearly referred to a virgin.

Anyway, these definitional arguments are getting it all back-a$$wards. Wherever you come down on this, there was a very early Christian tradition that Mary was a virgin. Instead of asking whether Matthew tried to shoehorn Jesus’ birth into Isaiah 7:14, Christians marvel at the miracle and find after the fact that it’s compatible with Isaiah. That’s called “faith.” Ask any Jew confronted with conflicting archeological evidence about Abraham.

The answer is very simple. “Almah” means “young woman.” Sometimes an almah is a virgin, sometimes she isn’t. If the woman is a married almah, presumably she’s not a virgin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Jesus wasn’t a real historical figure, where did Christian theology come from?

I do not think it's "moving the goal posts" to answer this by saying if Jesus was someone fathered by God of a virgin, then no, there was no such person.
If Jesus was a regular person whose sayings and actions are detailed in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John then yes, he was very likely a real historical figure.

Jesus nevertheless said his mother was a Virgin
I see influences of Hinduism and eastern religion in his teaching

I thought it was Matthew and Luke who claimed this? And how could they possibly know?

As far as Hinduism influencing Jesus' teachings, yeah please elaborate. There are far more differences than similarities.

Exactly. Jesus never said his mother was a virgin. The person who said Jesus was born of a virgin is whoever wrote Matthew, which was written approximately 70 years after Jesus died. Later on, it was mentioned in Luke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp with the link. It worked fine for me when I clicked on it in the post above. Here it is again:

https://knowingscripture.com/articles/is-virgin-the-correct-translation-of-isaiah-7-14

Almah is used a total of 9 times in the Bible. “When the context does offer a hint, as in Genesis 24:43, alma does clearly refer to a “virgin.” Another example is Song of Solomon 6:8, “There are sixty queens and eighty concubines, and [almot, plural] without number.” Here virgins (almot) are distinguished from queens and concubines.”

No, as TIME says, “almah” clearly means “young woman, virgin or not:

https://newsfeed.time.com/2011/03/04/controversial-bible-revision-about-that-virgin-thing/

Instead of flinging more links, how about you address the points about almah only being used 9 times, and in some of those cases it clearly refers to a virgin. Is this the battle of the links?

In those days, all young girls were considered to be virgins, unless they were concubines

yeah, I'm a DP, but in those days a young woman was pretty synonymous with virgin. Maybe the prophesy of Isaiah is somewhat questionable for other reasons, but it was pretty much understood a young woman was a virgin. No?

DP and +1. PP can link to all the hostile (Jewish) sources she wants. It’s clear almah was interpreted both as “unmarried woman” AND “virgin” during the first century AD, including twice in the Hebrew Bible and also in the Septaguint. PP’s explanation that only one isolated Jewish translator looked at that particular part of the Septaguint is unconvincing, and she never addressed the link showing other instances in the OT where almah clearly referred to a virgin.

Anyway, these definitional arguments are getting it all back-a$$wards. Wherever you come down on this, there was a very early Christian tradition that Mary was a virgin. Instead of asking whether Matthew tried to shoehorn Jesus’ birth into Isaiah 7:14, Christians marvel at the miracle and find after the fact that it’s compatible with Isaiah. That’s called “faith.” Ask any Jew confronted with conflicting archeological evidence about Abraham.

Exactly -- I can't understand religious people bothering to try to prove the accuracy of the Bible, when religion is all about faith.

God didn't answer your prayers? Ah -- well God knows more what you need than you do -- he is God after all.

You don't understand God sometimes? Well, you're not meant to. You're only human. He's God!

That’s not what the previous post said, you cute little troll, you.

"cute little troll," here -- who didn't intend to repeat the previous post , but rather to make a related point.