If Jesus wasn’t a real historical figure, where did Christian theology come from?

[Anonymous]

Greek mystery cults.

[Anonymous]

Jesus was a real person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist, but in my understanding, historians generally agree that Jesus was a real historical person.

But to answer your wider question - Christian theology didn't come from Jesus. Christian theology was first agreed upon at the Council of Nicaea:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

OP here. Yes, yes. I know about the council of Nicaea. I have been saying the Nicene Creed every Sunday for most of my life. I also k is about Saint Jerome.

That isn’t my question. The question is for those who do NOT believe that Jesus was a real, historical figure. Paul had a pretty clear theology and a pretty clear story. And he was definitely a real dude. I am not trying to use this to prove the existence of Jesus as a real person. I am just curious about where people think he got his ideas.

It seems doubtful that he just made the whole thing up on his own. Do people think he just listened to some other delusional people talking about Christ? Or that these ideas were kind of out there already, and he just invented this figure?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Greek mystery cults.

Groundhog! How we missed you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist, but in my understanding, historians generally agree that Jesus was a real historical person.

But to answer your wider question - Christian theology didn't come from Jesus. Christian theology was first agreed upon at the Council of Nicaea:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

OP here. Yes, yes. I know about the council of Nicaea. I have been saying the Nicene Creed every Sunday for most of my life. I also k is about Saint Jerome.

That isn’t my question. The question is for those who do NOT believe that Jesus was a real, historical figure. Paul had a pretty clear theology and a pretty clear story. And he was definitely a real dude. I am not trying to use this to prove the existence of Jesus as a real person. I am just curious about where people think he got his ideas.

It seems doubtful that he just made the whole thing up on his own. Do people think he just listened to some other delusional people talking about Christ? Or that these ideas were kind of out there already, and he just invented this figure?

It was a centrally-organized Roman plot to undermine themselves. The same people who wrote all the early gospels, canonical and others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Certainly Paul was be-bopping all over Ancient Rome writing letters and starting churches within 50 years of his death. And his writings and behavior are much too organized to believe he was schizophrenic. So, where did this theology come from? Was there some group of crazy people who made it all up, including a central figure who never existed?

Did someone say he was schizophrenic? I think some people liked the message, and wanted to belong to the various church communities (like today), but the Christians were a minor and inconsequential sect for 300 years until the emperor Constantine converted. Read A.N. Wilson's biography of Paul as to why he did it (he was convinced the Christian god could deliver military victories which, of course, included booty for him and his men).. That was Christianity's big break.

Sounds interesting. I will take a look.

Forgive me. The book on Constantine is Constantine by Paul Stephenson

[Anonymous]

Jesus was probably historical, but there were lots of Jewish sects around at the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Certainly Paul was be-bopping all over Ancient Rome writing letters and starting churches within 50 years of his death. And his writings and behavior are much too organized to believe he was schizophrenic. So, where did this theology come from? Was there some group of crazy people who made it all up, including a central figure who never existed?

Did someone say he was schizophrenic? I think some people liked the message, and wanted to belong to the various church communities (like today), but the Christians were a minor and inconsequential sect for 300 years until the emperor Constantine converted. Read A.N. Wilson's biography of Paul as to why he did it (he was convinced the Christian god could deliver military victories which, of course, included booty for him and his men).. That was Christianity's big break.

This made it safe to be Christian, but it was hardly a big break. Constantine’s mother was Christian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Certainly Paul was be-bopping all over Ancient Rome writing letters and starting churches within 50 years of his death. And his writings and behavior are much too organized to believe he was schizophrenic. So, where did this theology come from? Was there some group of crazy people who made it all up, including a central figure who never existed?

Did someone say he was schizophrenic? I think some people liked the message, and wanted to belong to the various church communities (like today), but the Christians were a minor and inconsequential sect for 300 years until the emperor Constantine converted. Read A.N. Wilson's biography of Paul as to why he did it (he was convinced the Christian god could deliver military victories which, of course, included booty for him and his men).. That was Christianity's big break.

Yeah -- the stuff you don't learn in sunday school!

Exactly, you have to continue your studies into high school and beyond to really learn what the Church teaches, including its own history. Catechism isn't theology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist, but in my understanding, historians generally agree that Jesus was a real historical person.

But to answer your wider question - Christian theology didn't come from Jesus. Christian theology was first agreed upon at the Council of Nicaea:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

OP here. Yes, yes. I know about the council of Nicaea. I have been saying the Nicene Creed every Sunday for most of my life. I also k is about Saint Jerome.

That isn’t my question. The question is for those who do NOT believe that Jesus was a real, historical figure. Paul had a pretty clear theology and a pretty clear story. And he was definitely a real dude. I am not trying to use this to prove the existence of Jesus as a real person. I am just curious about where people think he got his ideas.

It seems doubtful that he just made the whole thing up on his own. Do people think he just listened to some other delusional people talking about Christ? Or that these ideas were kind of out there already, and he just invented this figure?

Christianity has roots/similarities to Judaism, Zoroastrianism and Egyptian paganism. None of it was new.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist, but in my understanding, historians generally agree that Jesus was a real historical person.

But to answer your wider question - Christian theology didn't come from Jesus. Christian theology was first agreed upon at the Council of Nicaea:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

OP here. Yes, yes. I know about the council of Nicaea. I have been saying the Nicene Creed every Sunday for most of my life. I also k is about Saint Jerome.

That isn’t my question. The question is for those who do NOT believe that Jesus was a real, historical figure. Paul had a pretty clear theology and a pretty clear story. And he was definitely a real dude. I am not trying to use this to prove the existence of Jesus as a real person. I am just curious about where people think he got his ideas.

It seems doubtful that he just made the whole thing up on his own. Do people think he just listened to some other delusional people talking about Christ? Or that these ideas were kind of out there already, and he just invented this figure?

Paul wasn't the only one to write about him. Non-follower writers who mentioned him include Jewish historian Flavius Josephus and Roman senator and historian Tacitus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Certainly Paul was be-bopping all over Ancient Rome writing letters and starting churches within 50 years of his death. And his writings and behavior are much too organized to believe he was schizophrenic. So, where did this theology come from? Was there some group of crazy people who made it all up, including a central figure who never existed?

Did someone say he was schizophrenic? I think some people liked the message, and wanted to belong to the various church communities (like today), but the Christians were a minor and inconsequential sect for 300 years until the emperor Constantine converted. Read A.N. Wilson's biography of Paul as to why he did it (he was convinced the Christian god could deliver military victories which, of course, included booty for him and his men).. That was Christianity's big break.

This made it safe to be Christian, but it was hardly a big break. Constantine’s mother was Christian.

Well that's a non-sequitur if I ever heard one. The emperor converting was definitely the religion's big break. His mother was Christian, yes, but it was a inconsequential sect until that time and would have remained so if Constantine didn't convert.
No one can possibly dispute that Christianity's big break came when the emperor Constantine converted, and it wasn't because his mother wanted him to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Certainly Paul was be-bopping all over Ancient Rome writing letters and starting churches within 50 years of his death. And his writings and behavior are much too organized to believe he was schizophrenic. So, where did this theology come from? Was there some group of crazy people who made it all up, including a central figure who never existed?

Did someone say he was schizophrenic? I think some people liked the message, and wanted to belong to the various church communities (like today), but the Christians were a minor and inconsequential sect for 300 years until the emperor Constantine converted. Read A.N. Wilson's biography of Paul as to why he did it (he was convinced the Christian god could deliver military victories which, of course, included booty for him and his men).. That was Christianity's big break.

This made it safe to be Christian, but it was hardly a big break. Constantine’s mother was Christian.

Well that's a non-sequitur if I ever heard one. The emperor converting was definitely the religion's big break. His mother was Christian, yes, but it was a inconsequential sect until that time and would have remained so if Constantine didn't convert.
No one can possibly dispute that Christianity's big break came when the emperor Constantine converted, and it wasn't because his mother wanted him to.

Yes, we agree that Constantine’s mother wasn’t the only reason he converted. But the fact that his own mother was Christian speaks to the religion’s growth before that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Certainly Paul was be-bopping all over Ancient Rome writing letters and starting churches within 50 years of his death. And his writings and behavior are much too organized to believe he was schizophrenic. So, where did this theology come from? Was there some group of crazy people who made it all up, including a central figure who never existed?

Did someone say he was schizophrenic? I think some people liked the message, and wanted to belong to the various church communities (like today), but the Christians were a minor and inconsequential sect for 300 years until the emperor Constantine converted. Read A.N. Wilson's biography of Paul as to why he did it (he was convinced the Christian god could deliver military victories which, of course, included booty for him and his men).. That was Christianity's big break.

This made it safe to be Christian, but it was hardly a big break. Constantine’s mother was Christian.

Well that's a non-sequitur if I ever heard one. The emperor converting was definitely the religion's big break. His mother was Christian, yes, but it was a inconsequential sect until that time and would have remained so if Constantine didn't convert.
No one can possibly dispute that Christianity's big break came when the emperor Constantine converted, and it wasn't because his mother wanted him to.

Yes, we agree that Constantine’s mother wasn’t the only reason he converted. But the fact that his own mother was Christian speaks to the religion’s growth before that.

ok., I can go along with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Certainly Paul was be-bopping all over Ancient Rome writing letters and starting churches within 50 years of his death. And his writings and behavior are much too organized to believe he was schizophrenic. So, where did this theology come from? Was there some group of crazy people who made it all up, including a central figure who never existed?

Did someone say he was schizophrenic? I think some people liked the message, and wanted to belong to the various church communities (like today), but the Christians were a minor and inconsequential sect for 300 years until the emperor Constantine converted. Read A.N. Wilson's biography of Paul as to why he did it (he was convinced the Christian god could deliver military victories which, of course, included booty for him and his men).. That was Christianity's big break.

This made it safe to be Christian, but it was hardly a big break. Constantine’s mother was Christian.

Well that's a non-sequitur if I ever heard one. The emperor converting was definitely the religion's big break. His mother was Christian, yes, but it was a inconsequential sect until that time and would have remained so if Constantine didn't convert.
No one can possibly dispute that Christianity's big break came when the emperor Constantine converted, and it wasn't because his mother wanted him to.

Why so rude? With a little thought you would have understood that before pulling the trigger.