Pay-to-Play Sport at Private HS employing club coach - what's normal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ummm, what about all those kids and coaches from the other WCAC teams that actually follow the league rules? It’s not unfair to them that Gibby runs a program that completely disregards the rules?

If your goal at a Catholic institution is to run a program that violates league rules while extorting money from families in order to win a few trophies, that speaks volumes about you.

Further to this point, violating rules re: practice time is a serious violation. It results in a significant competitive advantage for teams that violate the rules. That is why the rules are put in place and why leagues/conferences/associations that care about fair competition enforce them.

For example, when Harbaugh got to Michigan, the NCAA found that under his predecessor, Michigan football had exceeded practice time limits by 65 hours (off-season and season combined) over an 18 month period. Harbaugh’s Wolverines we’re docked 130 practice hours (double the amount of hours they violated by) over the next two years and put on probation for three years - a period in which the program had to take extra compliance measures with the NCAA (I.e., it made violating the practice rules nearly impossible. Oh, and let’s not forget that Michigan fired Rich Rodriguez, the coach who violated the rules and put the program in that mess.

65 hours over 18 months is nothing compared to the amount by which SJC baseball violates the WCAC’s rules, which state that in the off-season teams can’t work together more than 4 days a week or 12 hours a week. Over the summer alone, SJC baseball goes 6 or 7 days a week and regularly more than 30 hours a week. Excessive time continues throughout the entire offseason until the baseball season legitimately starts toward the end of February.

If the WCAC levied a penalty similar to what Michigan got (2x the number of hours by which the broke the rules), SJC baseball would never be allowed to practice! They’d have to just show up for games unprepared. Oh, and if SJC had an ethical land to stand on like Michigan, they’d fire Gibbs.

But carry on with your “nothing to see here” mentality. Maybe SJC’s players aren’t the ones making the decision to break the rules, but they are breaking the rules at the direction of their coach, and the school has an environment of total noncompliance. Sad if you’re too dense to see how other league teams/players are disadvantaged.

In an 8 week summer off-season, SJC conservatively exceeds the WCAC’s limits on off-season practice/baseball activities by 144 hours. That’s not total hours of baseball activities, but the number of hours by which they cheat (I know some of you don’t like that word). Let that sink in.

[Anonymous]

A huge fan, player, coach, or young relative seems to have taken over this thread and the original question about pay for play and made it about winning championships. Pay for play is immoral, unethical and very possibly illegal (as shown by public school coaches who have lost their jobs) and St. John's baseball has been getting away with it for years. The question started with soccer so it had nothing to do with championship envy. It has become about baseball because of the sheer volume of money they extort from their players every year and because of the caliber of players exiting the program. Nice attempt to distract from the real issue and the real question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son played baseball at SJC and had a great experience. A couple of points. He would be considered a middle of the pack player by SJC standards. He knew this and we knew this. We never aspired to DI colleges or scholarships. My DH and I checked in with him often and told him if he ever wanted to quit, we supported that decision. As long as he finished out the season. My son ended up playing DIII and did get quite a bit of money (considered merit, but it was for baseball). He has no regrets. He worked incredibly hard and has used that work ethic both on and off of the field.

This is what it’s all about. Somehow I’m to believe the system that has produced possibly the single most dominant and successful program in the area across all sports is some scheme to line the pockets of the coach at the expense of the well-being of the student-athlete? Jog on with that, Erin Brockovich.

Unfortunately, today’s coddled athlete who’s been told they’re special all their life finds it easier in the face of adversity to blame others for their “misfortune” than powering through to explore what’s possible. In my day, your reputation was earned, not given. Results were also earned. Sounds like somebody’s offers didn’t meet their expectation, but you don’t get six-pack abs simply by joining the gym.

Actually, it's to cheat and line their pockets. Nice two-fer.

[Anonymous]

Lots of sour grapes and offended sensibilities in this thread. Hate to see it.

We shall laud and commend the five brave transfers for their courage to expose and take down the machine that has been preying on student-athletes for a generation. Their names will be known across the land.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots of sour grapes and offended sensibilities in this thread. Hate to see it.

We shall laud and commend the five brave transfers for their courage to expose and take down the machine that has been preying on student-athletes for a generation. Their names will be known across the land.

Sarcasm noted. Poke fun all you want, but understand that the other side of the coin from these five boys is a grown man whose entire purpose, identity, and self importance is wrapped up in the success of a high school baseball program that he has built on cheating, and taking advantage of and mistreating teenage boys. And a purportedly catholic school that supports him completely. But keep up with the sarcasm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of sour grapes and offended sensibilities in this thread. Hate to see it.

We shall laud and commend the five brave transfers for their courage to expose and take down the machine that has been preying on student-athletes for a generation. Their names will be known across the land.

Sarcasm noted. Poke fun all you want, but understand that the other side of the coin from these five boys is a grown man whose entire purpose, identity, and self importance is wrapped up in the success of a high school baseball program that he has built on cheating, and taking advantage of and mistreating teenage boys. And a purportedly catholic school that supports him completely. But keep up with the sarcasm.

Please explain what you mean by “purportedly.” This all sounds like typical behavior for a catholic institution.

[Anonymous]

Every WCAC football weight trains year round, and has 7-7 passing leagues. At least the good ones do.

Go after Stefanelli or B McGregor? No because neither one has a 6 peat going.

People are jealous of SJC’s baseball success. Lets call it what it is.

As for these transfers- I wish the kids well. Who knows why or what caused them but transfers happen all the time. Part of the game in the WCAC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every WCAC football weight trains year round, and has 7-7 passing leagues. At least the good ones do.

Go after Stefanelli or B McGregor? No because neither one has a 6 peat going.

People are jealous of SJC’s baseball success. Lets call it what it is.

As for these transfers- I wish the kids well. Who knows why or what caused them but transfers happen all the time. Part of the game in the WCAC.

Captain led weight training is not the same as a coach mandating thousands of dollars of graft from high schoolers.

[Anonymous]

Well, we were part of it and frankly, didn’t know the rules. Now that I realize how much we were cheating, I’m pretty embarrassed by SJCs actions. Certainly taints the victories.

[Anonymous]

Internet sleuths bring down another big bad! The gig is up!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every WCAC football weight trains year round, and has 7-7 passing leagues. At least the good ones do.

Go after Stefanelli or B McGregor? No because neither one has a 6 peat going.

People are jealous of SJC’s baseball success. Lets call it what it is.

As for these transfers- I wish the kids well. Who knows why or what caused them but transfers happen all the time. Part of the game in the WCAC.

We do know what made them transfer. They have said it was because they didn’t want to play for Diamond Skills in the off season.

[Anonymous]

Do any players who do not attend St. Johns play for Diamond Skills?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do any players who do not attend St. Johns play for Diamond Skills?

Yes. Player from other schools do play on Diamond Skills. It is a good program for many players although it does have it's flaws just like any other travel team. It really depends on where you want to play in college and if you want to play in college. If you don't want to play in college, you should have the opportunity to get a job in the summer. If you want to play in the SEC or ACC, it is better for you to play on a team that goes down south more often and has a higher national profile. If you want to play in the mid-Atlantic, Diamond Skills is a good option. The best answer for this is the Georgetown Prep coach is also a Diamond Skills owner but he does not force his players to play on the team. They find a summer team that most aligns with their college goals. Although these posts have devolved somewhat, the ultimate issue is REQUIRING a player to pay for your private business in order for him to be able to play in high school. Plain and simple.

[Anonymous]

Which is not true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Which is not true.

Explain please?