Pay-to-Play Sport at Private HS employing club coach - what's normal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do any players who do not attend St. Johns play for Diamond Skills?

Yes. Player from other schools do play on Diamond Skills. It is a good program for many players although it does have it's flaws just like any other travel team. It really depends on where you want to play in college and if you want to play in college. If you don't want to play in college, you should have the opportunity to get a job in the summer. If you want to play in the SEC or ACC, it is better for you to play on a team that goes down south more often and has a higher national profile. If you want to play in the mid-Atlantic, Diamond Skills is a good option. The best answer for this is the Georgetown Prep coach is also a Diamond Skills owner but he does not force his players to play on the team. They find a summer team that most aligns with their college goals. Although these posts have devolved somewhat, the ultimate issue is REQUIRING a player to pay for your private business in order for him to be able to play in high school. Plain and simple.

I agree with a lot in this post. Our son played a bit with Diamond Skills (not SJC), but only where it made sense for him. We never would’ve chosen Diamond Skills as a full time program. For context, son is a D1 player.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every WCAC football weight trains year round, and has 7-7 passing leagues. At least the good ones do.

Go after Stefanelli or B McGregor? No because neither one has a 6 peat going.

People are jealous of SJC’s baseball success. Lets call it what it is.

As for these transfers- I wish the kids well. Who knows why or what caused them but transfers happen all the time. Part of the game in the WCAC.

Captain led weight training is not the same as a coach mandating thousands of dollars of graft from high schoolers.

Even public school programs do year round weight training. No problem with that. Comparing year round weight training to SJC year round requirements is nonsensical. If football programs in the wcac have required training more than 4 days/12 hours per week in the off-season then they also are breaking the rules. Are they?

[Anonymous]

I found this quote in a WP article about WCAC basketball today:

“It’s part of our job as coaches to put our kids in a position to be seen, to be exposed, to play against high-level competition,” Gonzaga Coach Steve Turner said. “We have to put them in places where college coaches are going to be.”

I think this illustrates exactly where Gibbs goes off the rails.

When Gibbs doesn't let kids play in National Showcases during the offseason (I think that was a major factor for the 5 kids who just left) or tells kids to not go to winter college camps (but they can go to his own camps), or withholds information from parents and kids about a college showing interest in a kid, he illustrates that he's not interested in helping the kids reach their objectives.

The only possible conclusion you can reach when he does these things is that he's more interested in maintaining control over the kids for the benefit of his own program.

As a coach or teacher, that level of selfishness is just disgraceful.

[Anonymous]

I’m more familiar with soccer than baseball, but I think that’s irrelevant when you get down to it. This post has turned into people on one side accusing a coach of mistreating players and not following the conference’s rules, and people on the other side defending what the coach does because he wins. That’s telling - “you can do whatever you want as long as you win” seems to be the SJC philosophy. At any level of sports, people who care about the integrity of the game would have a problem with that. Question here seems to be whether those in charge at SJC or the WCAC are okay with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I found this quote in a WP article about WCAC basketball today:

“It’s part of our job as coaches to put our kids in a position to be seen, to be exposed, to play against high-level competition,” Gonzaga Coach Steve Turner said. “We have to put them in places where college coaches are going to be.”

I think this illustrates exactly where Gibbs goes off the rails.

When Gibbs doesn't let kids play in National Showcases during the offseason (I think that was a major factor for the 5 kids who just left) or tells kids to not go to winter college camps (but they can go to his own camps), or withholds information from parents and kids about a college showing interest in a kid, he illustrates that he's not interested in helping the kids reach their objectives.

The only possible conclusion you can reach when he does these things is that he's more interested in maintaining control over the kids for the benefit of his own program.

As a coach or teacher, that level of selfishness is just disgraceful.

I know for a fact this isn’t how it ‘s done in SJC football. Those coaches do a really good job with college recruiting and helping players get scholarships. I don’t know basketball as well but I think it’s tru there too. Ever year it seems there is a photo on SJC’s web site with the baseball coach and a bunch of baseball players who are signing to play in college. Is this not true?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m more familiar with soccer than baseball, but I think that’s irrelevant when you get down to it. This post has turned into people on one side accusing a coach of mistreating players and not following the conference’s rules, and people on the other side defending what the coach does because he wins. That’s telling - “you can do whatever you want as long as you win” seems to be the SJC philosophy. At any level of sports, people who care about the integrity of the game would have a problem with that. Question here seems to be whether those in charge at SJC or the WCAC are okay with that.

As was mentioned several posts ago, the real issue is that SJC may be violating IRS regulations on non-profits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m more familiar with soccer than baseball, but I think that’s irrelevant when you get down to it. This post has turned into people on one side accusing a coach of mistreating players and not following the conference’s rules, and people on the other side defending what the coach does because he wins. That’s telling - “you can do whatever you want as long as you win” seems to be the SJC philosophy. At any level of sports, people who care about the integrity of the game would have a problem with that. Question here seems to be whether those in charge at SJC or the WCAC are okay with that.

As was mentioned several posts ago, the real issue is that SJC may be violating IRS regulations on non-profits.

I see what you’re saying. But this statement goes a bit more to the question of why the school would allow a coach to do this - they are taking some real legal risk and why? But I think the way they’re treating the students is more abhorrent. Teaching kids that it’s OK to break rules if it helps you win is inexcusable. And having a coach who does not do things in the kids best interest is unexplainable. Is there really enough benefit from winning a high school conference championship every year where it’s worth sacrificing what is best for the kids paying tuition to go to school there?

[Anonymous]

The earlier posts dripping with machismo and trophy obsession are funny. But if you believe winning championships is the be-all end-all, here’s something pretty telling. SJC just had 5 D1 players transfer out despite the fact that they’ve been able to win championships there. Meanwhile, DeMatha has a number of D1 players (including three committed to UVA and Vandy in this years senior class) who have decided to stay at DeMatha despite them not winning championships. Those are kids who don’t plan to peak in high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every WCAC football weight trains year round, and has 7-7 passing leagues. At least the good ones do.

Go after Stefanelli or B McGregor? No because neither one has a 6 peat going.

People are jealous of SJC’s baseball success. Lets call it what it is.

As for these transfers- I wish the kids well. Who knows why or what caused them but transfers happen all the time. Part of the game in the WCAC.

We do know what made them transfer. They have said it was because they didn’t want to play for Diamond Skills in the off season.

Success is due to year-round practice which other WCAC schools do not do (because it's against the rules). On a level playing field, DeMatha would wipe the floor with SJC. PVI, Gonzaga and O'Connell would also be contenders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every WCAC football weight trains year round, and has 7-7 passing leagues. At least the good ones do.

Go after Stefanelli or B McGregor? No because neither one has a 6 peat going.

People are jealous of SJC’s baseball success. Lets call it what it is.

As for these transfers- I wish the kids well. Who knows why or what caused them but transfers happen all the time. Part of the game in the WCAC.

We do know what made them transfer. They have said it was because they didn’t want to play for Diamond Skills in the off season.

Success is due to year-round practice which other WCAC schools do not do (because it's against the rules). On a level playing field, DeMatha would wipe the floor with SJC. PVI, Gonzaga and O'Connell would also be contenders.

Watch out for O'Connell...they almost knocked off SJC in the playoffs last year, and I heard that at least a couple of the SJC transfers are going to O'Connell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son played baseball at SJC and had a great experience. A couple of points. He would be considered a middle of the pack player by SJC standards. He knew this and we knew this. We never aspired to DI colleges or scholarships. My DH and I checked in with him often and told him if he ever wanted to quit, we supported that decision. As long as he finished out the season. My son ended up playing DIII and did get quite a bit of money (considered merit, but it was for baseball). He has no regrets. He worked incredibly hard and has used that work ethic both on and off of the field.

This is what it’s all about. Somehow I’m to believe the system that has produced possibly the single most dominant and successful program in the area across all sports is some scheme to line the pockets of the coach at the expense of the well-being of the student-athlete? Jog on with that, Erin Brockovich.

Unfortunately, today’s coddled athlete who’s been told they’re special all their life finds it easier in the face of adversity to blame others for their “misfortune” than powering through to explore what’s possible. In my day, your reputation was earned, not given. Results were also earned. Sounds like somebody’s offers didn’t meet their expectation, but you don’t get six-pack abs simply by joining the gym.

Ok, I’ll play the part of Erin Brockovich and am happy to “jog on.”

Question 1: why do conferences and athletic associations have rules limiting the amount of time that member schools can practice, play together in the off-season, etc.?

Question 2: what advantage do teams have if they violate rules on practice/off-season activities? Other side of this issue - are the opponents of such teams put at a disadvantage?

Question 3: how badly does SJC baseball violate the WCAC’s rules on practice/off-season activities?

Question 4: over the past six years, what is the primary difference between SJC baseball and other WCAC teams that has resulted in SJC winning sux straight championships?

The issues here only go to whether SJC cheats and whether their championships are legitimate. When a coach has a teenage mentality though, it just doesn’t matter. As long as he can say he won.

This is all separate from issues of legality, morality, etc. But jog on........

[Anonymous]

Not surprised by some of the chest thumping mean spirited posts in this thread. SJC baseball has a reputation and this behavior pretty much fits it.

[Anonymous]

I believe the assertions that something is rotten with SJC baseball. I just don’t understand how the coach benefits from his approach. Wouldn’t it be to his advantage to help players get in front of the right college scouts and get scholarships? I get the financial motivation, but don’t get why he doesn’t take it even further and get the added publicity and notoriety of also paving the way for future success.

[Anonymous]

So the WCAC has simply turned a blind eye to these egregious violations of the rules by SJC for a generation? That's the takeaway here? This is all out in the open. If this is the case, maybe the tin-foil-hatters should reset and instead explore the relationship between the WCAC commissioner and SJC.

FOLLOW THE MONEY

[Anonymous]

If these are blatant violations, I would think Gonzaga or DeMatha in self interest would notify the WCAC. There are various levels of folks turning their head to these allegations. Doesn't make complete sense. I am pretty sure there would of been a whistleblower by now.