Pay-to-Play Sport at Private HS employing club coach - what's normal?

Anonymous
Wait, a religious academic institution that tries to win at any cost? shocker.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Front page of WaPo sports section

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/03/19/st-johns-baseball-team-requirement-play-coachs-private-team-causes-turmoil/


DP here. My DH just brought me the Sports page so I could read the story. For years I've been telling him about the best things I've read on DCUM each week, and I think this thread was the only one that he actually agreed was interesting. The story has 410 comments at the moment, and some of them are quite strongly worded. I hope it results in changes to the program.



Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Front page of WaPo sports section

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/03/19/st-johns-baseball-team-requirement-play-coachs-private-team-causes-turmoil/


DP here. My DH just brought me the Sports page so I could read the story. For years I've been telling him about the best things I've read on DCUM each week, and I think this thread was the only one that he actually agreed was interesting. The story has 410 comments at the moment, and some of them are quite strongly worded. I hope it results in changes to the program.



Seems like the school backed the coach seeing as much as 100K in tuition walk out the door. Not sure how behavior will change
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Front page of WaPo sports section

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/03/19/st-johns-baseball-team-requirement-play-coachs-private-team-causes-turmoil/


DP here. My DH just brought me the Sports page so I could read the story. For years I've been telling him about the best things I've read on DCUM each week, and I think this thread was the only one that he actually agreed was interesting. The story has 410 comments at the moment, and some of them are quite strongly worded. I hope it results in changes to the program.



Seems like the school backed the coach seeing as much as 100K in tuition walk out the door. Not sure how behavior will change

You mean those D1 baseball players didn’t get a full ride to SJ? I thought SJ was recruiting and giving full rides.
Anonymous
For some fun reading, go to the reader comments section of the WaPo article to see not-Gibbs and not-Triantos insult each other.
Anonymous
Have any changes resulted since the WaPo article?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Have any changes resulted since the WaPo article?


No
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:This is very common in swimming as well. At both clubs my kid swam, coaches only promoted those who also swam on their side gigs like summer leagues, clinics, took private lessons. I guess all sorts are money making machines now. It is very hard to find training environment where promotion is always directly related to performance.


I think it’s a little bit different when you’re talking about kids paying tens of thousands of dollars to go to private schools, and then the coaches at those schools require the kids to pay them extra thousands out of season. Criminal.


I agree (I am a swim mom). The worst thing is that talented children are wasting time instead of getting the training they need, and athlete's time is very limited - they have so much to do in middle/high school!
I would have just paid to such school coach, my child's time is more valuable. Switching teams also causes stress, etc.


I find that strange because swimming is objective...you're either fast or you're not. What do you mean coaches only "promoted" certain kids?


You would be surprised how many kids with superior official times are not promoted vs those with lesser results but on the coaches summer leagues, friends etc. It’s impossible to fight with: they can refer to technique, age etc.


Another swim parent here, and I also do not know what you meant by "promoted" in the context of high school swimming?


I was talking about club swimming, not high school swimming. There are plenty of good swimmers who get stuck in regular senior groups while others get promotions to NTG, NDG and other higher level groups with lesser times. It all depends on how well you are known to the coaches, whether you participante in that coach summer league team or high school team, take clinics etc. Kind of the same thing but reversed, where the club promotion between groups is dependent on "side" engagements with the coaches.



Is this Stoneridge/ASA? The coach runs a club and coaches the school team. DD tried out but went with NCap bc the set-up seemed sketchy. Notable that the Stoneridge swimmers who qualified for Trials swim for NCap
Anonymous
Zero changes. Although one of the kids listed in the article is on target to be drafted in the 1st round in the upcoming MLB draft. As a result of Coach Gibbs being a complete jackass in not letting him attend a weekend showcase (at which he collected a full ride college offer), his high school will not be listed as St John's. Might even go to the Nats. Well done Coach.
Anonymous
All of this stuff is the reason my kid didn't even apply to SJC because I feel that their methods are suspect for a Catholic school.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:quote=Anonymous]It is really sad what kids sports have become for some people. And your child can enjoy sports in this area without buying into all that. You just have to opt out of the crazy leagues and schools.


This. Parents, this is your responsibility. Lots of pages here blaming coaches who are certainly blameworthy, but it's your responsibility to not give them power over your kids or let them suck the joy out of sports for your kids. Yes, coaches can be instrumental in helping kids play in college, get scholarships, and more, but the good ones do it the right way and it's not hard to tell who the good ones are. Actually it's probably easier to tell who the bad ones are. There are warning signs and the information is out there. Don’t just fall for empty promises and shiny objects.

Here is what happens regularly at SJC baseball:

- Coach contacts parents to say their little Johnny, a rising 7th grader, is a helluva player.

- Coach tells parents SJC is better than anyone at developing baseball players. Just look at all the championship trophies. Tells parents Johnny would make a great Cadet.

- Coach invites Johnny to attend his summer Diamond Skills junior high prospect camp (for a $425 fee).

- Coach invites Johnny to attend his winter DC Cadets camp (for a $350 fee).

- Coach invites Johnny to attend his winter Diamond Skills/Prep Baseball Report winter junior high prospect camp (for a $210 fee). For those counting at home, you've now paid him $985 and Johnny isn't even finished with the 7th grade.

- Johnny is now a rising 8th grader. Coach invites Johnny to attend his summer Diamond Skills junior high prospect camp again (for a $425 fee).

- Coach invites Johnny to schedule a shadow day at St. John's during the Fall of 8th grade.

- Johnny shadows at St. John's and he and his parents are given a tour of St. John's and a sales pitch by Coach. Coach shows them all the great facilities, and talks about all the college and professional players and, of course, the championships.

- Coach invites Johnny to attend his winter DC Cadets camp again (for a $350 fee).

- Coach invites Johnny to attend his winter Diamond Skills/Prep Baseball Report winter junior high prospect camp again (for a $210 fee). For those counting at home, you've now paid him $1,970 and Johnny hasn't even been accepted at St. John's yet.

- Johnny gets his acceptance letter from St. John's (phew).

- Coach invites Johnny to attend his summer Diamond Skills junior high prospect camp again (for a $425 fee). Query, since you've paid your deposit and enrolled Johnny in the school, is Johnny still a prospect? Doesn't matter - he'll take your $425.

- Coach invites Johnny to summer workouts for incoming freshmen and strongly suggests he should attend (for a $100 fee). Johnny's parents have now paid Coach $2,495. Johnny has not yet attended a class at St. John's.

- Johnny goes to summer workouts 3 days a week for 2-3 hours a day, for 8 weeks. Johnny learns how to stretch and run properly, but does not play baseball all summer.

- Johnny shows up for the first day of school. If Coach thinks Johnny was a good enough stretcher and runner, he requires him to participate in offseason after school workouts with 60+ other kids (for about a $600 fee), and requires him to play on a Fall Diamond Skills team (for an approximately $1,200 fee). If Coach doesn't think Johnny was a good enough stretcher or runner, he just stops contacting him (no emails, phone calls or anything to explain why he can't play baseball at St. John's, and Johnny isn't given an opportunity to try out for the school team in the Spring).

- In the fall, Johnny works out with the baseball program every day after school, some days in the morning, and plays in tournaments with Diamond Skills on the weekends. Johnny's Diamond Skills team has around 18 kids on it, and Johnny gets to play about half of every game. Doesn’t matter how the team is doing - Coach decides all playing time ahead of time and doesn’t attend the games/tournaments. If he is a pitcher, Johnny is not allowed to throw more than 30 pitches in a weekend.

- Winter rolls around and Johnny keeps working out with the team 6 or 7 days a week. Come January, he works out at 6 am four school days each week, works out after school for 2-3 hours 5 days each week, and works out on Saturdays and Sundays as well. As part of the weekend workouts, Johnny is required to participate in DC Cadets winter camp (for a fee of $175).

- In February, the baseball program starts ramping up for a defense of the WCAC championship. It's all baseball all the time from now through the end of the WCAC season in mid-May.

- At the end of the high school baseball season, Johnny is told which Diamond Skills weekend travel team he has to play on during the summer (for a fee of approximately $1,400), and which weeknight DC Cadets team he has to play on during the summer (for a fee of $700). He also has to work out Monday-Thursday each week for 4-5 hours each day. Fortunately, this is included in the $700 DC Cadets fee.

- Johnny gets to rinse and repeat each of the next three years.

- Somewhere along the way, Johnny probably loses his love for the game. It may be because at the end of his freshman year, Coach turned him into a "pitcher only" - PO for short. Not just for the high school season, but all year round. There are plenty of other travel teams that would like Johnny to be a full time player in the summer and fall (not just a PO), but that's not allowed -- Johnny has to play for Coach's Diamond Skills program if he wants to play for St. John's.

- At some point in his junior or senior year, Johnny gets an offer to play division 3 baseball (no scholarship) or a preferred walk-on spot at a division 1 school (no scholarship and no guaranteed roster spot). If he’s like many other SJC players he decides to go to a JUCO to chase the dream. Johnny asks himself what happened - did he not put in the time?

- Johnny graduates from St. John's at the end of his senior year. He's bitter about his high school experience, but at least he's done with St. John's baseball.

Costs above are updated to reflect what we understand it costs today, but they’re comparable to when "Johnny" was there.

Our son was Johnny. Johnny will never get those four years back. We’re partly to blame, but there wasn’t as much information out there when we made our decisions. Whether your son's name is Johnny or not, I'd recommend choosing a different path.


Yikes. I’m sorry for your son. It sucks a sport he loved is left tainted.


Your story is one that I’ve heard from many others yet I’m still left speechless.

This was heartbreaking to read. I'm sorry for your son. This is not the first time I've heard this story either.
Anonymous
I actually had no idea. Thanks for sharing. And I'm so sorry about your son's experience. But I guess SJC still loves Coach Gibbs.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:All of this stuff is the reason my kid didn't even apply to SJC because I feel that their methods are suspect for a Catholic school.


We made the same decision not to apply there. Their response (doubling down) was worse than the original action of the coach. Glad to hear it worked out for one of the kids. I hope the rest of them are doing well too.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I hate that adults ruin childhood with these corrupt shenanigans. The school is teaching horrible ethical lessons to the children.

However, there is definitely quid pro quo at play between the coach and the school, as he's recruiting athletes to become new tuition-paying students.

How much is he charging outside of school?


The camps were $300/week and were run just about every week of the summer. For the school year, if it's comparable to other local clubs, maybe $3K. So all in, the coach is probably getting $4 - $5K in revenue per player for those that are in his club.

I'm not so sure about the quid pro quo with the school - it's not the very most competitive, but it turns away a lot of students. I doubt this is to get more tuition paying students.


The quid pro quo with the school is to improve the team, not recruit more students.

Lots of this in nonsectarian privates. Expect more.
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