Private Schools Wokeness Over the Top

[Anonymous]

Who cares?!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay. Some basics here. It is true that some places have started to use the term “Latine” instead of Latinx, because Latinx is a word mostly invented and used by white, likely racist, progressives and mostly imposed on the Latino and Hispanic populations without their consent. Latinx was used somewhat self-referentially by politically progressive Mexican and Californian Latinos, but other than that, it was almost entirely a word defined and used by white, non-Spanish speaking progressives. It is a term openly and widely despised by many Latinos and Hispanics and is perceived as racist by many.

Some — not all by any means — people have moved to use the gender-neutral term “Latine” instead. The -e ending in Spanish is part of the language already, so doesn’t sound foreign like Latinx always did.

More broadly, there is some movement among progressive and young Spanish-speakers to replace gendered language in Spanish with the neutral -e. So, for instance, instead of “amigos” you would say “amigues” or “todes” instead of “todos.” I am skeptical that is being taught as the proper language form at elite private schools, but it’s not out of the question that it’s taught alongside the traditional Spanish. This language switch is is something anyone learning Spanish should at least be aware exists now, so they aren’t surprised.

Oh really? And are they also dropping all gendered definite articles? And are we altering all Romance languages or just Spanish?

Fortunately in Spanish and French it is just some fringe academics and no one cares. It's only in English that for some reason the media launched a crusade around woke topics like this and spread beyond the crazy left bubble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The whole anti woke movement is driven by marginally successful whites who no longer can get slots at Ivy League schools. Bitter demographic.

Actually, a few of the worst ones slipped in — possibly to add geographic diversity.
They likely got access in the first place because of “woke” values.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay. Some basics here. It is true that some places have started to use the term “Latine” instead of Latinx, because Latinx is a word mostly invented and used by white, likely racist, progressives and mostly imposed on the Latino and Hispanic populations without their consent. Latinx was used somewhat self-referentially by politically progressive Mexican and Californian Latinos, but other than that, it was almost entirely a word defined and used by white, non-Spanish speaking progressives. It is a term openly and widely despised by many Latinos and Hispanics and is perceived as racist by many.

Some — not all by any means — people have moved to use the gender-neutral term “Latine” instead. The -e ending in Spanish is part of the language already, so doesn’t sound foreign like Latinx always did.

More broadly, there is some movement among progressive and young Spanish-speakers to replace gendered language in Spanish with the neutral -e. So, for instance, instead of “amigos” you would say “amigues” or “todes” instead of “todos.” I am skeptical that is being taught as the proper language form at elite private schools, but it’s not out of the question that it’s taught alongside the traditional Spanish. This language switch is is something anyone learning Spanish should at least be aware exists now, so they aren’t surprised.

Oh really? And are they also dropping all gendered definite articles? And are we altering all Romance languages or just Spanish?

Fortunately in Spanish and French it is just some fringe academics and no one cares. It's only in English that for some reason the media launched a crusade around woke topics like this and spread beyond the crazy left bubble.

The fact that you believe "no one cares" and that gender inclusiveness is a fringe issue in Spanish suggests that you spend exactly zero time talking in Spanish with native speakers involved in any way in media, politics, or academia. If you did, you'd know that gender inclusiveness is currently a huge topic and has been for some time. Listen to a political address in almost any Spanish-speaking country, and you will hear speakers refer to "amigas y amigos", "compañeras y compañeros", etc. The governments of Mexico, Argentina, Spain (national and all regional governments), Uruguay, Ecaudor, Chile, and other countries have published guides to non-sexist language, as have most universities. All of them deal with the issue of the masculine plural used for both genders, and 100% agree that it's a problem.

Most of these guides conclude that constructions like amig@s or amigxs are unpronounceable and confusing. So, the recommendation in guides that I've seen is "desdoblamiento" -- using both genders and/or alternating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay. Some basics here. It is true that some places have started to use the term “Latine” instead of Latinx, because Latinx is a word mostly invented and used by white, likely racist, progressives and mostly imposed on the Latino and Hispanic populations without their consent. Latinx was used somewhat self-referentially by politically progressive Mexican and Californian Latinos, but other than that, it was almost entirely a word defined and used by white, non-Spanish speaking progressives. It is a term openly and widely despised by many Latinos and Hispanics and is perceived as racist by many.

Some — not all by any means — people have moved to use the gender-neutral term “Latine” instead. The -e ending in Spanish is part of the language already, so doesn’t sound foreign like Latinx always did.

More broadly, there is some movement among progressive and young Spanish-speakers to replace gendered language in Spanish with the neutral -e. So, for instance, instead of “amigos” you would say “amigues” or “todes” instead of “todos.” I am skeptical that is being taught as the proper language form at elite private schools, but it’s not out of the question that it’s taught alongside the traditional Spanish. This language switch is is something anyone learning Spanish should at least be aware exists now, so they aren’t surprised.

Oh really? And are they also dropping all gendered definite articles? And are we altering all Romance languages or just Spanish?

Fortunately in Spanish and French it is just some fringe academics and no one cares. It's only in English that for some reason the media launched a crusade around woke topics like this and spread beyond the crazy left bubble.

The fact that you believe "no one cares" and that gender inclusiveness is a fringe issue in Spanish suggests that you spend exactly zero time talking in Spanish with native speakers involved in any way in media, politics, or academia. If you did, you'd know that gender inclusiveness is currently a huge topic and has been for some time. Listen to a political address in almost any Spanish-speaking country, and you will hear speakers refer to "amigas y amigos", "compañeras y compañeros", etc. The governments of Mexico, Argentina, Spain (national and all regional governments), Uruguay, Ecaudor, Chile, and other countries have published guides to non-sexist language, as have most universities. All of them deal with the issue of the masculine plural used for both genders, and 100% agree that it's a problem.

Most of these guides conclude that constructions like amig@s or amigxs are unpronounceable and confusing. So, the recommendation in guides that I've seen is "desdoblamiento" -- using both genders and/or alternating.

Yeah, that poster just outed herself as wildly ignorant. No surprise there (and for the record I believe there may be a lot of academic heterodoxy, but not understanding a widely discussed and implemented language topic is not that).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay. Some basics here. It is true that some places have started to use the term “Latine” instead of Latinx, because Latinx is a word mostly invented and used by white, likely racist, progressives and mostly imposed on the Latino and Hispanic populations without their consent. Latinx was used somewhat self-referentially by politically progressive Mexican and Californian Latinos, but other than that, it was almost entirely a word defined and used by white, non-Spanish speaking progressives. It is a term openly and widely despised by many Latinos and Hispanics and is perceived as racist by many.

Some — not all by any means — people have moved to use the gender-neutral term “Latine” instead. The -e ending in Spanish is part of the language already, so doesn’t sound foreign like Latinx always did.

More broadly, there is some movement among progressive and young Spanish-speakers to replace gendered language in Spanish with the neutral -e. So, for instance, instead of “amigos” you would say “amigues” or “todes” instead of “todos.” I am skeptical that is being taught as the proper language form at elite private schools, but it’s not out of the question that it’s taught alongside the traditional Spanish. This language switch is is something anyone learning Spanish should at least be aware exists now, so they aren’t surprised.

Oh really? And are they also dropping all gendered definite articles? And are we altering all Romance languages or just Spanish?

Fortunately in Spanish and French it is just some fringe academics and no one cares. It's only in English that for some reason the media launched a crusade around woke topics like this and spread beyond the crazy left bubble.

The fact that you believe "no one cares" and that gender inclusiveness is a fringe issue in Spanish suggests that you spend exactly zero time talking in Spanish with native speakers involved in any way in media, politics, or academia. If you did, you'd know that gender inclusiveness is currently a huge topic and has been for some time. Listen to a political address in almost any Spanish-speaking country, and you will hear speakers refer to "amigas y amigos", "compañeras y compañeros", etc. The governments of Mexico, Argentina, Spain (national and all regional governments), Uruguay, Ecaudor, Chile, and other countries have published guides to non-sexist language, as have most universities. All of them deal with the issue of the masculine plural used for both genders, and 100% agree that it's a problem.

Most of these guides conclude that constructions like amig@s or amigxs are unpronounceable and confusing. So, the recommendation in guides that I've seen is "desdoblamiento" -- using both genders and/or alternating.

Oh my, witness the woke gringuita trying to school the native Spanish speaker about what is going on, because of course the native Spanish speaker spends exactly zero time blahblahblah.

I speak Spanish every day with people of multiple nationalities and SES. Not a single person in the last 5 years has said something like amigue or latinx other than to make fun of the fringe nonsense.

It is true that it has been common for decades for politicians to say "amigos y amigas" o "educadores y educadoras" but that's not what we're talking about. That's using the language we have vs. torturing it in unnatural ways to conform to some fad of the month.

Same with the French people I talk to. Why are English speakers more prone to the woke virus I don't know, but thank God we have multiple languages and multiple cultures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay. Some basics here. It is true that some places have started to use the term “Latine” instead of Latinx, because Latinx is a word mostly invented and used by white, likely racist, progressives and mostly imposed on the Latino and Hispanic populations without their consent. Latinx was used somewhat self-referentially by politically progressive Mexican and Californian Latinos, but other than that, it was almost entirely a word defined and used by white, non-Spanish speaking progressives. It is a term openly and widely despised by many Latinos and Hispanics and is perceived as racist by many.

Some — not all by any means — people have moved to use the gender-neutral term “Latine” instead. The -e ending in Spanish is part of the language already, so doesn’t sound foreign like Latinx always did.

More broadly, there is some movement among progressive and young Spanish-speakers to replace gendered language in Spanish with the neutral -e. So, for instance, instead of “amigos” you would say “amigues” or “todes” instead of “todos.” I am skeptical that is being taught as the proper language form at elite private schools, but it’s not out of the question that it’s taught alongside the traditional Spanish. This language switch is is something anyone learning Spanish should at least be aware exists now, so they aren’t surprised.

Oh really? And are they also dropping all gendered definite articles? And are we altering all Romance languages or just Spanish?

Fortunately in Spanish and French it is just some fringe academics and no one cares. It's only in English that for some reason the media launched a crusade around woke topics like this and spread beyond the crazy left bubble.

The fact that you believe "no one cares" and that gender inclusiveness is a fringe issue in Spanish suggests that you spend exactly zero time talking in Spanish with native speakers involved in any way in media, politics, or academia. If you did, you'd know that gender inclusiveness is currently a huge topic and has been for some time. Listen to a political address in almost any Spanish-speaking country, and you will hear speakers refer to "amigas y amigos", "compañeras y compañeros", etc. The governments of Mexico, Argentina, Spain (national and all regional governments), Uruguay, Ecaudor, Chile, and other countries have published guides to non-sexist language, as have most universities. All of them deal with the issue of the masculine plural used for both genders, and 100% agree that it's a problem.

Most of these guides conclude that constructions like amig@s or amigxs are unpronounceable and confusing. So, the recommendation in guides that I've seen is "desdoblamiento" -- using both genders and/or alternating.

Oh my, witness the woke gringuita trying to school the native Spanish speaker about what is going on, because of course the native Spanish speaker spends exactly zero time blahblahblah.

I speak Spanish every day with people of multiple nationalities and SES. Not a single person in the last 5 years has said something like amigue or latinx other than to make fun of the fringe nonsense.

It is true that it has been common for decades for politicians to say "amigos y amigas" o "educadores y educadoras" but that's not what we're talking about. That's using the language we have vs. torturing it in unnatural ways to conform to some fad of the month.

Same with the French people I talk to. Why are English speakers more prone to the woke virus I don't know, but thank God we have multiple languages and multiple cultures.

I am not the PP and I think Latinx is a racist abomination, but the gender-neutral thing seems reasonably widespread (though not used all the time, of course) among young Spanish speakers. Of course I think it going beyond that seems very unlikely, but the -e thing isn’t just a few extremist professors. It’s not uncommon among tweens and teens. Kids try out a lot of stuff and who knows if it will stick, of course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay. Some basics here. It is true that some places have started to use the term “Latine” instead of Latinx, because Latinx is a word mostly invented and used by white, likely racist, progressives and mostly imposed on the Latino and Hispanic populations without their consent. Latinx was used somewhat self-referentially by politically progressive Mexican and Californian Latinos, but other than that, it was almost entirely a word defined and used by white, non-Spanish speaking progressives. It is a term openly and widely despised by many Latinos and Hispanics and is perceived as racist by many.

Some — not all by any means — people have moved to use the gender-neutral term “Latine” instead. The -e ending in Spanish is part of the language already, so doesn’t sound foreign like Latinx always did.

More broadly, there is some movement among progressive and young Spanish-speakers to replace gendered language in Spanish with the neutral -e. So, for instance, instead of “amigos” you would say “amigues” or “todes” instead of “todos.” I am skeptical that is being taught as the proper language form at elite private schools, but it’s not out of the question that it’s taught alongside the traditional Spanish. This language switch is is something anyone learning Spanish should at least be aware exists now, so they aren’t surprised.

Oh really? And are they also dropping all gendered definite articles? And are we altering all Romance languages or just Spanish?

Fortunately in Spanish and French it is just some fringe academics and no one cares. It's only in English that for some reason the media launched a crusade around woke topics like this and spread beyond the crazy left bubble.

The fact that you believe "no one cares" and that gender inclusiveness is a fringe issue in Spanish suggests that you spend exactly zero time talking in Spanish with native speakers involved in any way in media, politics, or academia. If you did, you'd know that gender inclusiveness is currently a huge topic and has been for some time. Listen to a political address in almost any Spanish-speaking country, and you will hear speakers refer to "amigas y amigos", "compañeras y compañeros", etc. The governments of Mexico, Argentina, Spain (national and all regional governments), Uruguay, Ecaudor, Chile, and other countries have published guides to non-sexist language, as have most universities. All of them deal with the issue of the masculine plural used for both genders, and 100% agree that it's a problem.

Most of these guides conclude that constructions like amig@s or amigxs are unpronounceable and confusing. So, the recommendation in guides that I've seen is "desdoblamiento" -- using both genders and/or alternating.

Oh my, witness the woke gringuita trying to school the native Spanish speaker about what is going on, because of course the native Spanish speaker spends exactly zero time blahblahblah.

I speak Spanish every day with people of multiple nationalities and SES. Not a single person in the last 5 years has said something like amigue or latinx other than to make fun of the fringe nonsense.

It is true that it has been common for decades for politicians to say "amigos y amigas" o "educadores y educadoras" but that's not what we're talking about. That's using the language we have vs. torturing it in unnatural ways to conform to some fad of the month.

Same with the French people I talk to. Why are English speakers more prone to the woke virus I don't know, but thank God we have multiple languages and multiple cultures.

I am not the PP and I think Latinx is a racist abomination, but the gender-neutral thing seems reasonably widespread (though not used all the time, of course) among young Spanish speakers. Of course I think it going beyond that seems very unlikely, but the -e thing isn’t just a few extremist professors. It’s not uncommon among tweens and teens. Kids try out a lot of stuff and who knows if it will stick, of course.

We may live in different circles but I can tell you the number of times I have heard my also native Spanish-speaking teens and their friends use the -e thing: zero.

Seriously, it's not a thing at all outside the fringe bubble. I cannot think of any popular song using it either, even the types designed to engage the "cool" kids. Probably because in general it is seen as an anglo thing, the latest imperialistic thing coming from the USA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay. Some basics here. It is true that some places have started to use the term “Latine” instead of Latinx, because Latinx is a word mostly invented and used by white, likely racist, progressives and mostly imposed on the Latino and Hispanic populations without their consent. Latinx was used somewhat self-referentially by politically progressive Mexican and Californian Latinos, but other than that, it was almost entirely a word defined and used by white, non-Spanish speaking progressives. It is a term openly and widely despised by many Latinos and Hispanics and is perceived as racist by many.

Some — not all by any means — people have moved to use the gender-neutral term “Latine” instead. The -e ending in Spanish is part of the language already, so doesn’t sound foreign like Latinx always did.

More broadly, there is some movement among progressive and young Spanish-speakers to replace gendered language in Spanish with the neutral -e. So, for instance, instead of “amigos” you would say “amigues” or “todes” instead of “todos.” I am skeptical that is being taught as the proper language form at elite private schools, but it’s not out of the question that it’s taught alongside the traditional Spanish. This language switch is is something anyone learning Spanish should at least be aware exists now, so they aren’t surprised.

Oh really? And are they also dropping all gendered definite articles? And are we altering all Romance languages or just Spanish?

Fortunately in Spanish and French it is just some fringe academics and no one cares. It's only in English that for some reason the media launched a crusade around woke topics like this and spread beyond the crazy left bubble.

The fact that you believe "no one cares" and that gender inclusiveness is a fringe issue in Spanish suggests that you spend exactly zero time talking in Spanish with native speakers involved in any way in media, politics, or academia. If you did, you'd know that gender inclusiveness is currently a huge topic and has been for some time. Listen to a political address in almost any Spanish-speaking country, and you will hear speakers refer to "amigas y amigos", "compañeras y compañeros", etc. The governments of Mexico, Argentina, Spain (national and all regional governments), Uruguay, Ecaudor, Chile, and other countries have published guides to non-sexist language, as have most universities. All of them deal with the issue of the masculine plural used for both genders, and 100% agree that it's a problem.

Most of these guides conclude that constructions like amig@s or amigxs are unpronounceable and confusing. So, the recommendation in guides that I've seen is "desdoblamiento" -- using both genders and/or alternating.

Oh my, witness the woke gringuita trying to school the native Spanish speaker about what is going on, because of course the native Spanish speaker spends exactly zero time blahblahblah.

I speak Spanish every day with people of multiple nationalities and SES. Not a single person in the last 5 years has said something like amigue or latinx other than to make fun of the fringe nonsense.

It is true that it has been common for decades for politicians to say "amigos y amigas" o "educadores y educadoras" but that's not what we're talking about. That's using the language we have vs. torturing it in unnatural ways to conform to some fad of the month.

Same with the French people I talk to. Why are English speakers more prone to the woke virus I don't know, but thank God we have multiple languages and multiple cultures.

I am not the PP and I think Latinx is a racist abomination, but the gender-neutral thing seems reasonably widespread (though not used all the time, of course) among young Spanish speakers. Of course I think it going beyond that seems very unlikely, but the -e thing isn’t just a few extremist professors. It’s not uncommon among tweens and teens. Kids try out a lot of stuff and who knows if it will stick, of course.

We may live in different circles but I can tell you the number of times I have heard my also native Spanish-speaking teens and their friends use the -e thing: zero.

Seriously, it's not a thing at all outside the fringe bubble. I cannot think of any popular song using it either, even the types designed to engage the "cool" kids. Probably because in general it is seen as an anglo thing, the latest imperialistic thing coming from the USA.

I’m the man who posted above (who you called “gringuita”). My Spanish speaking son uses “e” as a neutral ending (just as he frequently says “they” in English as a singular). It’s pretty common in his circle in California. The notion that teens see “e” as imperialistic is frankly ridiculous. I guess your kids don’t know any queer or non-binary teens, huh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole anti woke movement is driven by marginally successful whites who no longer can get slots at Ivy League schools. Bitter demographic.

As opposed to people who wouldn’t get in at all on a merit-based system?

Hear hear!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay. Some basics here. It is true that some places have started to use the term “Latine” instead of Latinx, because Latinx is a word mostly invented and used by white, likely racist, progressives and mostly imposed on the Latino and Hispanic populations without their consent. Latinx was used somewhat self-referentially by politically progressive Mexican and Californian Latinos, but other than that, it was almost entirely a word defined and used by white, non-Spanish speaking progressives. It is a term openly and widely despised by many Latinos and Hispanics and is perceived as racist by many.

Some — not all by any means — people have moved to use the gender-neutral term “Latine” instead. The -e ending in Spanish is part of the language already, so doesn’t sound foreign like Latinx always did.

More broadly, there is some movement among progressive and young Spanish-speakers to replace gendered language in Spanish with the neutral -e. So, for instance, instead of “amigos” you would say “amigues” or “todes” instead of “todos.” I am skeptical that is being taught as the proper language form at elite private schools, but it’s not out of the question that it’s taught alongside the traditional Spanish. This language switch is is something anyone learning Spanish should at least be aware exists now, so they aren’t surprised.

Oh really? And are they also dropping all gendered definite articles? And are we altering all Romance languages or just Spanish?

Fortunately in Spanish and French it is just some fringe academics and no one cares. It's only in English that for some reason the media launched a crusade around woke topics like this and spread beyond the crazy left bubble.

The fact that you believe "no one cares" and that gender inclusiveness is a fringe issue in Spanish suggests that you spend exactly zero time talking in Spanish with native speakers involved in any way in media, politics, or academia. If you did, you'd know that gender inclusiveness is currently a huge topic and has been for some time. Listen to a political address in almost any Spanish-speaking country, and you will hear speakers refer to "amigas y amigos", "compañeras y compañeros", etc. The governments of Mexico, Argentina, Spain (national and all regional governments), Uruguay, Ecaudor, Chile, and other countries have published guides to non-sexist language, as have most universities. All of them deal with the issue of the masculine plural used for both genders, and 100% agree that it's a problem.

Most of these guides conclude that constructions like amig@s or amigxs are unpronounceable and confusing. So, the recommendation in guides that I've seen is "desdoblamiento" -- using both genders and/or alternating.

Oh my, witness the woke gringuita trying to school the native Spanish speaker about what is going on, because of course the native Spanish speaker spends exactly zero time blahblahblah.

I speak Spanish every day with people of multiple nationalities and SES. Not a single person in the last 5 years has said something like amigue or latinx other than to make fun of the fringe nonsense.

It is true that it has been common for decades for politicians to say "amigos y amigas" o "educadores y educadoras" but that's not what we're talking about. That's using the language we have vs. torturing it in unnatural ways to conform to some fad of the month.

Same with the French people I talk to. Why are English speakers more prone to the woke virus I don't know, but thank God we have multiple languages and multiple cultures.

I am not the PP and I think Latinx is a racist abomination, but the gender-neutral thing seems reasonably widespread (though not used all the time, of course) among young Spanish speakers. Of course I think it going beyond that seems very unlikely, but the -e thing isn’t just a few extremist professors. It’s not uncommon among tweens and teens. Kids try out a lot of stuff and who knows if it will stick, of course.

We may live in different circles but I can tell you the number of times I have heard my also native Spanish-speaking teens and their friends use the -e thing: zero.

Seriously, it's not a thing at all outside the fringe bubble. I cannot think of any popular song using it either, even the types designed to engage the "cool" kids. Probably because in general it is seen as an anglo thing, the latest imperialistic thing coming from the USA.

I’m the man who posted above (who you called “gringuita”). My Spanish speaking son uses “e” as a neutral ending (just as he frequently says “they” in English as a singular). It’s pretty common in his circle in California. The notion that teens see “e” as imperialistic is frankly ridiculous. I guess your kids don’t know any queer or non-binary teens, huh?

+1

It just isn’t that uncommon among Spanish-speaking teens in urban areas. Idk why PP hasn’t heard it before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay. Some basics here. It is true that some places have started to use the term “Latine” instead of Latinx, because Latinx is a word mostly invented and used by white, likely racist, progressives and mostly imposed on the Latino and Hispanic populations without their consent. Latinx was used somewhat self-referentially by politically progressive Mexican and Californian Latinos, but other than that, it was almost entirely a word defined and used by white, non-Spanish speaking progressives. It is a term openly and widely despised by many Latinos and Hispanics and is perceived as racist by many.

Some — not all by any means — people have moved to use the gender-neutral term “Latine” instead. The -e ending in Spanish is part of the language already, so doesn’t sound foreign like Latinx always did.

More broadly, there is some movement among progressive and young Spanish-speakers to replace gendered language in Spanish with the neutral -e. So, for instance, instead of “amigos” you would say “amigues” or “todes” instead of “todos.” I am skeptical that is being taught as the proper language form at elite private schools, but it’s not out of the question that it’s taught alongside the traditional Spanish. This language switch is is something anyone learning Spanish should at least be aware exists now, so they aren’t surprised.

Oh really? And are they also dropping all gendered definite articles? And are we altering all Romance languages or just Spanish?

Fortunately in Spanish and French it is just some fringe academics and no one cares. It's only in English that for some reason the media launched a crusade around woke topics like this and spread beyond the crazy left bubble.

The fact that you believe "no one cares" and that gender inclusiveness is a fringe issue in Spanish suggests that you spend exactly zero time talking in Spanish with native speakers involved in any way in media, politics, or academia. If you did, you'd know that gender inclusiveness is currently a huge topic and has been for some time. Listen to a political address in almost any Spanish-speaking country, and you will hear speakers refer to "amigas y amigos", "compañeras y compañeros", etc. The governments of Mexico, Argentina, Spain (national and all regional governments), Uruguay, Ecaudor, Chile, and other countries have published guides to non-sexist language, as have most universities. All of them deal with the issue of the masculine plural used for both genders, and 100% agree that it's a problem.

Most of these guides conclude that constructions like amig@s or amigxs are unpronounceable and confusing. So, the recommendation in guides that I've seen is "desdoblamiento" -- using both genders and/or alternating.

Oh my, witness the woke gringuita trying to school the native Spanish speaker about what is going on, because of course the native Spanish speaker spends exactly zero time blahblahblah.

I speak Spanish every day with people of multiple nationalities and SES. Not a single person in the last 5 years has said something like amigue or latinx other than to make fun of the fringe nonsense.

It is true that it has been common for decades for politicians to say "amigos y amigas" o "educadores y educadoras" but that's not what we're talking about. That's using the language we have vs. torturing it in unnatural ways to conform to some fad of the month.

Same with the French people I talk to. Why are English speakers more prone to the woke virus I don't know, but thank God we have multiple languages and multiple cultures.

Since you bring up music, do you know how Jennifer Lopez refers to her child Emme? Here she is joking about singing with Emme and how she has to pay Emme to sing in public: “Elle es una persona muy ocupada… y cara.” Is JLo a “woke gringuita” too?

https://amp-us.marca.com/tiramillas/musica/2022/06/22/62b3605746163f1eb78b45ab.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay. Some basics here. It is true that some places have started to use the term “Latine” instead of Latinx, because Latinx is a word mostly invented and used by white, likely racist, progressives and mostly imposed on the Latino and Hispanic populations without their consent. Latinx was used somewhat self-referentially by politically progressive Mexican and Californian Latinos, but other than that, it was almost entirely a word defined and used by white, non-Spanish speaking progressives. It is a term openly and widely despised by many Latinos and Hispanics and is perceived as racist by many.

Some — not all by any means — people have moved to use the gender-neutral term “Latine” instead. The -e ending in Spanish is part of the language already, so doesn’t sound foreign like Latinx always did.

More broadly, there is some movement among progressive and young Spanish-speakers to replace gendered language in Spanish with the neutral -e. So, for instance, instead of “amigos” you would say “amigues” or “todes” instead of “todos.” I am skeptical that is being taught as the proper language form at elite private schools, but it’s not out of the question that it’s taught alongside the traditional Spanish. This language switch is is something anyone learning Spanish should at least be aware exists now, so they aren’t surprised.

Oh really? And are they also dropping all gendered definite articles? And are we altering all Romance languages or just Spanish?

Fortunately in Spanish and French it is just some fringe academics and no one cares. It's only in English that for some reason the media launched a crusade around woke topics like this and spread beyond the crazy left bubble.

The fact that you believe "no one cares" and that gender inclusiveness is a fringe issue in Spanish suggests that you spend exactly zero time talking in Spanish with native speakers involved in any way in media, politics, or academia. If you did, you'd know that gender inclusiveness is currently a huge topic and has been for some time. Listen to a political address in almost any Spanish-speaking country, and you will hear speakers refer to "amigas y amigos", "compañeras y compañeros", etc. The governments of Mexico, Argentina, Spain (national and all regional governments), Uruguay, Ecaudor, Chile, and other countries have published guides to non-sexist language, as have most universities. All of them deal with the issue of the masculine plural used for both genders, and 100% agree that it's a problem.

Most of these guides conclude that constructions like amig@s or amigxs are unpronounceable and confusing. So, the recommendation in guides that I've seen is "desdoblamiento" -- using both genders and/or alternating.

Oh my, witness the woke gringuita trying to school the native Spanish speaker about what is going on, because of course the native Spanish speaker spends exactly zero time blahblahblah.

I speak Spanish every day with people of multiple nationalities and SES. Not a single person in the last 5 years has said something like amigue or latinx other than to make fun of the fringe nonsense.

It is true that it has been common for decades for politicians to say "amigos y amigas" o "educadores y educadoras" but that's not what we're talking about. That's using the language we have vs. torturing it in unnatural ways to conform to some fad of the month.

Same with the French people I talk to. Why are English speakers more prone to the woke virus I don't know, but thank God we have multiple languages and multiple cultures.

Since you bring up music, do you know how Jennifer Lopez refers to her child Emme? Here she is joking about singing with Emme and how she has to pay Emme to sing in public: “Elle es una persona muy ocupada… y cara.” Is JLo a “woke gringuita” too?

https://amp-us.marca.com/tiramillas/musica/2022/06/22/62b3605746163f1eb78b45ab.html

And I’m guessing that Alberto Fernández, the president of Argentina is also a “woke gringuita” or a U.S. imperialist, given that he’s used the neutral e in speeches —- "Prometo trabajar para que cada chique..."

https://tn.com.ar/politica/alberto-fernandez-uso-el-lenguaje-inclusivo-prometo-trabajar-para-que-cada-chique_1001826/

[Anonymous]

Tawdry street Spanish.

I got news for you- they say a whole lotta thinks in Naples Italy don’t belong in high school Italian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tawdry street Spanish.

I got news for you- they say a whole lotta thinks in Naples Italy don’t belong in high school Italian.

You seem confused. No part of this conversation has anything to do with “street Spanish” (whatever that is) but rather with how the Spanish language is evolving to confront the reality of women’s rights and inclusiveness of non-binary people. PP was arguing that in her circle, no one cares about women’s or gender queer rights. Meanwhile, in the real world, many presidents of Spanish speaking countries, the highest officials responsible for human rights in every Spanish speaking country, organizations like the OAS, most academics, and the Academia Norteamericana de la Lengua Española care very much, and have written reams of articles about how to confront the issue, including detailed debates by prominent linguists about the pros and cons of os/as, the neutral “e”, and using “@“.

The weird tendency of DCUM posters to claim to be native Spanish speakers but clearly have no idea whatsoever about enormous social and political trends in the Spanish speaking world is so strange. I really suspect that these people are Anglo trolls claiming to be Spanish speakers in order to seem credible in their anti-woke crusade.