When are Herndon Middle and Herndon High going to get a break?!??

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What about the large chunk of us Herndon homeowners who bought our homes ten years ago with the intention of sending our kids to a strong pyramid (back when FARM Rates were 1/3 what it is now!) Life is a bitch - make the best of it.


EXACTLY! These Langley folks had no issue suggesting we move and now look who suddenly care?


Did Langley parents oppose Herndon parents who took political action against unwanted changes to their school? DID Herndon parents take any action? Or just complain on a message board?

Reading this thread and others it seems that no unified action was taken. Some people did make the decision for their own children to move or go private.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What other schools with 40% low-income share a boundary with a 1.5% low-income school?

Better to have two 20% FARMS schools, but the Langley parents are having an aneurysm about even raising the idea.


And in the other side of Herndon is Carson!! Smack in the middle of two of the highest achieving schools is one of the lowest. Doesn’t take much insight to realize something is majorly wrong.


Okay. Right now, Carson is a split feeder to: Oakton, Westfield, Chantilly and SLHS. And sends between 75 and 100 kids a year to TJ. It is the worst split feeder in the county. Or close. How about we not add a sixth high school to the mix?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Yes, I agree that families drive the desire for TJ, but these extras should not be paid for by county tax payers if they are not offered uniformly. I'm talking about the middle school level where after school activities are paid for by the county. Why should some schools school have Math Counts and Science Olympiad when others don't. If everyone doesn't get it, then no one should. Say good bye to MS clubs, ES homework (why should some teachers spend time grading when others don't?), science fairs, etc. How's that for equity?


Many afterschool activities require fees. I don't think you will find afterschool activities paid for by the county at one school and not at another. I'm willing to be that Science Olympiad requires entrance fees, etc. Maybe someone on this forum could correct me.


Parent of former Carson kids here. Most of the state winning teams are started by parents and run by parents and funded by parents. My kids debated. Over 100 kids trying out for 20 spots. Parents started debate. Parents ran debate. It ran in the evening in parents homes. Parents volunteered to coach and judge and monitor. Parents paid.

Carson isn’t getting any after school funding that other schools aren’t. They are getting thousands of hours of parent volunteers and parents paying for the school based activities.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ok - let's ask Carson parents who live near McNair which is just on the south side of the Toll road to see if they would like their students to switch places with Herndon students just on over the north side off the Toll road. Herndon high is much closer for them than Westfield or Oakton. How do you think that will go?


Yes, this is a great idea. How do we make this happen. It makes way more sense for these kids to go to Herndon AND it’s cheaper for the county. Win-win.


This isn't going to happen because even when enough people do jump up and down to insist on equity, the county still finds a way to do cater to the few at the expense of the many.

Just ask the folks over at Save Blake Lane Park how they feel about keeping these far flung, south side of the toll road kids in the Oakton Pyramid. People in a economically and culturally diverse community, came together, jumped up and down to be heard. Their request? If you want to keep the far flung Silver Line cohorts in the pyramid, then build the school out near the Silver Line and leave the 10 acre community, over near the Vienna orange line alone.

Promises were made, by those running for office, including Palchik, to save the park, but at the end of the day, she and others are back peddling, the school will still get built on the park land, the neighborhood will lose a 10 acre park (the only accessible one in all of Oakton -- it has a public parking lot) there are many other beautiful parks, much bigger than this one in greater Oakton, but none have a parking lot and most are only accessible through tucked away cul-de-sacs, backyards or horseback. So in other words not community parks, and not accessible to FFX County residents. Our tax dollars pay for these lands, but we can not access them.

The county is actually going to spend $35 million to build an elementary school, where it isn't needed; take away a much needed open space, to appease a group of folks, who, just don't want to send their kids to their neighborhood schools, because they feed into Herndon HS.

This problem runs deep and I don't think anyone has the courage to fix it.


Has a decision been made on Blake Lane Park/Elementary School?

I don't really have a dog in this fight directly, but having lived near an elementary school in the past, isn't it still essentially a "park" (as in -- there will be grassy fields and playgrounds and parking lots) that you and others can use? The only thing you can't do at an elementary school is let your dogs run. So, is that what you are concerned about? I just don't understand what the loss is since I considered it a real plus to be next to an elementary school when I had kids who weren't even in the school yet. We went to the playground all the time to have them play on the equipment and to use the fields (when school wasn't in session -- nights, weekends, summer). Very few people were there, which I never understood.


I lived across from Blake Lane Park and moved away a few years ago. I haven’t followed this too closely. But, it’s a relatively diverse area SES wise— for Oakton. Lots of apartments and townhouses. $600,000 townhouses. But still, what passes for affordable housing in Vienna/ Oakton. If I were to guess at the underlying motivation, it would be traffic and not demographics. 123 is a disaster during rush hour, and those back roads are really a mess with people coming from both Fairfax and Vienna for the metro.

Getting out of those neighborhoods is a mess in the mornings— before adding school buses and kiss and ride. And there is already not enough parking. If I still lived there, that would be my concern. But, I haven’t seen the proposed boundaries for the new ES. I am surprised one would be needed, because the kids now got to Oakton ES, and it had a huge renovation and expansion that finished not all that long ago.

Plus, it’s a densely built area, and the green space is really nice.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Yes, I agree that families drive the desire for TJ, but these extras should not be paid for by county tax payers if they are not offered uniformly. I'm talking about the middle school level where after school activities are paid for by the county. Why should some schools school have Math Counts and Science Olympiad when others don't. If everyone doesn't get it, then no one should. Say good bye to MS clubs, ES homework (why should some teachers spend time grading when others don't?), science fairs, etc. How's that for equity?


Many afterschool activities require fees. I don't think you will find afterschool activities paid for by the county at one school and not at another. I'm willing to be that Science Olympiad requires entrance fees, etc. Maybe someone on this forum could correct me.


Parent of former Carson kids here. Most of the state winning teams are started by parents and run by parents and funded by parents. My kids debated. Over 100 kids trying out for 20 spots. Parents started debate. Parents ran debate. It ran in the evening in parents homes. Parents volunteered to coach and judge and monitor. Parents paid.

Carson isn’t getting any after school funding that other schools aren’t. They are getting thousands of hours of parent volunteers and parents paying for the school based activities.


Well, it's apparently unfair that you all can spare time and money to give your kids extra. I suppose all extra curricular should be banned.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What about the large chunk of us Herndon homeowners who bought our homes ten years ago with the intention of sending our kids to a strong pyramid (back when FARM Rates were 1/3 what it is now!) Life is a bitch - make the best of it.


EXACTLY! These Langley folks had no issue suggesting we move and now look who suddenly care?


Did Langley parents oppose Herndon parents who took political action against unwanted changes to their school? DID Herndon parents take any action? Or just complain on a message board?

Reading this thread and others it seems that no unified action was taken. Some people did make the decision for their own children to move or go private.


Fair enough. People who complain publicly will be branded as racist. They should either put up and shut up or move.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Yes, I agree that families drive the desire for TJ, but these extras should not be paid for by county tax payers if they are not offered uniformly. I'm talking about the middle school level where after school activities are paid for by the county. Why should some schools school have Math Counts and Science Olympiad when others don't. If everyone doesn't get it, then no one should. Say good bye to MS clubs, ES homework (why should some teachers spend time grading when others don't?), science fairs, etc. How's that for equity?


Many afterschool activities require fees. I don't think you will find afterschool activities paid for by the county at one school and not at another. I'm willing to be that Science Olympiad requires entrance fees, etc. Maybe someone on this forum could correct me.


Parent of former Carson kids here. Most of the state winning teams are started by parents and run by parents and funded by parents. My kids debated. Over 100 kids trying out for 20 spots. Parents started debate. Parents ran debate. It ran in the evening in parents homes. Parents volunteered to coach and judge and monitor. Parents paid.

Carson isn’t getting any after school funding that other schools aren’t. They are getting thousands of hours of parent volunteers and parents paying for the school based activities.


Well, it's apparently unfair that you all can spare time and money to give your kids extra. I suppose all extra curricular should be banned.


DP with experience from another F/R lunch challenged high school in FCPS. The problem with the extracurriculars is that the poorer schools have trouble getting volunteers AND money. We hear regularly that all of the high schools have trouble getting parent volunteers or that even at the big schools or wealthier schools the same parents do most of the volunteering. The difference at those schools is that the parents can come up with money to substitue for volunteering. That does not happen at the poorer schools. I would not claim, however, that the wealthier schools should not have the extracurricular activities. Though it is a reason to not concentrate poverty.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Yes, I agree that families drive the desire for TJ, but these extras should not be paid for by county tax payers if they are not offered uniformly. I'm talking about the middle school level where after school activities are paid for by the county. Why should some schools school have Math Counts and Science Olympiad when others don't. If everyone doesn't get it, then no one should. Say good bye to MS clubs, ES homework (why should some teachers spend time grading when others don't?), science fairs, etc. How's that for equity?


Many afterschool activities require fees. I don't think you will find afterschool activities paid for by the county at one school and not at another. I'm willing to be that Science Olympiad requires entrance fees, etc. Maybe someone on this forum could correct me.


Parent of former Carson kids here. Most of the state winning teams are started by parents and run by parents and funded by parents. My kids debated. Over 100 kids trying out for 20 spots. Parents started debate. Parents ran debate. It ran in the evening in parents homes. Parents volunteered to coach and judge and monitor. Parents paid.

Carson isn’t getting any after school funding that other schools aren’t. They are getting thousands of hours of parent volunteers and parents paying for the school based activities.


Well, it's apparently unfair that you all can spare time and money to give your kids extra. I suppose all extra curricular should be banned.


DP with experience from another F/R lunch challenged high school in FCPS. The problem with the extracurriculars is that the poorer schools have trouble getting volunteers AND money. We hear regularly that all of the high schools have trouble getting parent volunteers or that even at the big schools or wealthier schools the same parents do most of the volunteering. The difference at those schools is that the parents can come up with money to substitue for volunteering. That does not happen at the poorer schools. I would not claim, however, that the wealthier schools should not have the extracurricular activities. Though it is a reason to not concentrate poverty.


It seems that if the FARMs kids are equally distributed they would have trouble getting home from activities.

Almost 30% are FARMS.
Evening out could mean that activities across the county take a major hit if there aren't quite enough parents in schools with money and time to give.

There is a limit to how much some people can subsidize others without taking from their own children.
Anonymous
^^ Exactly - and at schools where half or more are in poverty, it is up to the minority to pay into the PTA that keeps field trips and other things going. If you don't pay, your kids will lose.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What about the large chunk of us Herndon homeowners who bought our homes ten years ago with the intention of sending our kids to a strong pyramid (back when FARM Rates were 1/3 what it is now!) Life is a bitch - make the best of it.


EXACTLY! These Langley folks had no issue suggesting we move and now look who suddenly care?


Did Langley parents oppose Herndon parents who took political action against unwanted changes to their school? DID Herndon parents take any action? Or just complain on a message board?

Reading this thread and others it seems that no unified action was taken. Some people did make the decision for their own children to move or go private.


Fair enough. People who complain publicly will be branded as racist. They should either put up and shut up or move.


Herndon parents might be surprised at who would step up to help. But you would have to lead the effort.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What about the large chunk of us Herndon homeowners who bought our homes ten years ago with the intention of sending our kids to a strong pyramid (back when FARM Rates were 1/3 what it is now!) Life is a bitch - make the best of it.


EXACTLY! These Langley folks had no issue suggesting we move and now look who suddenly care?


Did Langley parents oppose Herndon parents who took political action against unwanted changes to their school? DID Herndon parents take any action? Or just complain on a message board?

Reading this thread and others it seems that no unified action was taken. Some people did make the decision for their own children to move or go private.


Fair enough. People who complain publicly will be branded as racist. They should either put up and shut up or move.

Sooo.... according to schooldigger from 2010 to 2017 test scores fell, FARMs has gone up dramatically as has the percentage of Hispanic students. The percentage of white students has gone down but overall enrollment is about the same. White enrollment has been going down since the late 1990s, with the first real drop in 1998 and dropping steadily since. White enrollment was 1149 in 2010 and 775 students in 2017.

Looks like most white Herndon parents opted out for whatever reason. Of course it is unknown how many moved and how many went private. Interestingly enough, the numbers for black and Asian children have held steady for 20 years. Hispanic students increased their numbers and white students left in greater numbers every year.

Many white people left. I don't know if it was due to issues with administration or teaching or the condition of the facilities, but they left. Maybe there was redistricting somewhere in there but the numbers dropped EVERY year.

Most people chose the path of simply leaving.

Left on its current trajectory, Herndon would be 80% Hispanic in 5-7 years, as the pace of white departure seems to be increasing.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Yes, I agree that families drive the desire for TJ, but these extras should not be paid for by county tax payers if they are not offered uniformly. I'm talking about the middle school level where after school activities are paid for by the county. Why should some schools school have Math Counts and Science Olympiad when others don't. If everyone doesn't get it, then no one should. Say good bye to MS clubs, ES homework (why should some teachers spend time grading when others don't?), science fairs, etc. How's that for equity?


Many afterschool activities require fees. I don't think you will find afterschool activities paid for by the county at one school and not at another. I'm willing to be that Science Olympiad requires entrance fees, etc. Maybe someone on this forum could correct me.


Parent of former Carson kids here. Most of the state winning teams are started by parents and run by parents and funded by parents. My kids debated. Over 100 kids trying out for 20 spots. Parents started debate. Parents ran debate. It ran in the evening in parents homes. Parents volunteered to coach and judge and monitor. Parents paid.

Carson isn’t getting any after school funding that other schools aren’t. They are getting thousands of hours of parent volunteers and parents paying for the school based activities.


Well, it's apparently unfair that you all can spare time and money to give your kids extra. I suppose all extra curricular should be banned.


DP with experience from another F/R lunch challenged high school in FCPS. The problem with the extracurriculars is that the poorer schools have trouble getting volunteers AND money. We hear regularly that all of the high schools have trouble getting parent volunteers or that even at the big schools or wealthier schools the same parents do most of the volunteering. The difference at those schools is that the parents can come up with money to substitue for volunteering. That does not happen at the poorer schools. I would not claim, however, that the wealthier schools should not have the extracurricular activities. Though it is a reason to not concentrate poverty.


It seems that if the FARMs kids are equally distributed they would have trouble getting home from activities.

Almost 30% are FARMS.
Evening out could mean that activities across the county take a major hit if there aren't quite enough parents in schools with money and time to give.

There is a limit to how much some people can subsidize others without taking from their own children.


Yeah our charity has increased over the years with our income but so has what we can provide for our children.

Once covering other people's children hurts our ability to fund education, savings and productive hobbies for our own something has to give and it won't be the needs of the children that we brought into the world.
Anonymous
What other schools with 40% low-income share a boundary with a 1.5% low-income school?

Better to have two 20% FARMS schools, but the Langley parents are having an aneurysm about even raising the idea.


Blame all the middle class white people that abandoned Herndon. They exercised their free will to move or enroll their children in private school. They apparently didn't care what the rest of you thought about it.

They are the ones that contributed to the higher FARMs percentages by removing their middle-class children. Look to your own neighbors instead of blaming Langley parents for being content with theirs.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Why should some schools school have Math Counts and Science Olympiad when others don't. If everyone doesn't get it, then no one should. Say good bye to MS clubs, ES homework (why should some teachers spend time grading when others don't?), science fairs, etc. How's that for equity?
.


Parent of former Carson kids here. Most of the state winning teams are started by parents and run by parents and funded by parents. My kids debated. Over 100 kids trying out for 20 spots. Parents started debate. Parents ran debate. It ran in the evening in parents homes. Parents volunteered to coach and judge and monitor. Parents paid.

Carson isn’t getting any after school funding that other schools aren’t. They are getting thousands of hours of parent volunteers and parents paying for the school based activities.


The bolded is the sentiment behind all of this.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
What other schools with 40% low-income share a boundary with a 1.5% low-income school?

Better to have two 20% FARMS schools, but the Langley parents are having an aneurysm about even raising the idea.


Blame all the middle class white people that abandoned Herndon. They exercised their free will to move or enroll their children in private school. They apparently didn't care what the rest of you thought about it.

They are the ones that contributed to the higher FARMs percentages by removing their middle-class children. Look to your own neighbors instead of blaming Langley parents for being content with theirs.


I don't think it's as much that as the huge influx of undocumented, poor immigrants. 818 unaccompanied minors in Fairfax County from October to May of this year. This is not sustainable for any school system.
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