Fairfax County GT/AAP Appeals.

[Anonymous]

Anything can be speculative, even the kids are found eligible. But do you agree that WISC-IV score is a better speculator than GBRS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:clearly a child with a high IQ is bright. a child with a high GBRS may not be bright, just liked by the teacher. i guess which would you rather have in the class?

I think though, most teachers try to be "objective" in coming up with the subjective GBRS number. I think the parameters might be a little faulty though. my child is clearly bright, high IQ, but very shy. hence a lower gbrs.

I have heard that the AAP selection committee is biased against very shy children. I wonder if there are many activities (presentations and such) that could make AAP an uncomfortable experience for a very shy child? Those with kids already in AAP, is it a difficult environment for a shy child?

A lot of hooey, like so much on this board. My shy child easily got in. Here's the thing, unless your child is off the charts smart you should count yourself lucky of they get in. Anyone else will do fine in a local school, and I think deep down parents know this or there wouldn't be so much angst on this board.

It was stated by someone with firsthand knowledge of the process, but take it or leave it.

Don't see how "deep down parents know this" leads logically to "or there wouldn't be so much angst on this board." If parents knew deep down that their kids would do fine in a local school, they should have less angst, not more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anything can be speculative, even the kids are found eligible. But do you agree that WISC-IV score is a better speculator than GBRS?

no, I think the GBRS is better. But both can be valuable elements in the decision-making process.

[Anonymous]

Could you elabrate why GBRS is better? Look like it's a number given by somebody who could be totally biased. I don't believe the local committee came up the number, it's mainly the room teacher whose personalilty could vary greatly from person to person.

[Anonymous]

Anybody know who are the people in the appeal committee? Are they teachers from different schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anybody know who are the people in the appeal committee? Are they teachers from different schools?

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/pdfs/localplan/FinalLocalPlan.pdf

(pp.14-15)

Level IV placement (grades 3–8)

The appeals committee reviews all appeal requests. Parents/guardians of students
not selected for the Level IV program who wish to appeal, must complete an Appeal
form (Attachment BB) according to the scheduled deadline. All screening files
receive an in-depth data review by the Central Selection Committee and the
Oversight Committee. Their decision is based on currently available information.
Therefore, appeals must contain new information (not in the original screening file).
The appeals committee reviews the original screening file as well as the new
information. This may include student work samples (stories, projects, or artwork),
awards, certificates, honors, and/or reports of academic extracurricular activities,
and letters from parents or other adults who know of the child’s advanced abilities.
Further, parents/guardians may elect to obtain additional, optional testing. FCPS
agrees to honor and accept these assessments. Individual intelligence testing from a
private licensed psychologist must be accompanied by a copy of the psychologist’s
state license. Testing results from George Mason University testing services and
other universities may also be submitted. The appeals committee consists of the
Advanced Academic coordinator, Advanced Academic Program specialists, EL
specialists, and school psychologists. The parents and guardians are notified of the
decision by mail (Attachments CC - EE).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Could you elabrate why GBRS is better? Look like it's a number given by somebody who could be totally biased. I don't believe the local committee came up the number, it's mainly the room teacher whose personalilty could vary greatly from person to person.

because they're selecting for the Advanced Academic Program, not the High IQ Program. If the AAP office wanted to it could simply decree an IQ of 130 and you're in, but they don't do that. Why not? Because that number, alone, doesn't demonstrate that the kid is or will be academically advanced. The GBRS is Gifted Behavior Rating Scale. These numbers are based on observed performance on indicators that are clearly related to academic success.

Granted, the GBRS is subjective. And a teacher may overlook some kids if they don't seem to stand-out. If your kid was honked by the GBRS it's only human nature not to like it. OTH, If you're kid was helped by the GBRS it's a wonderful selection tool.

[Anonymous]

Subjective criteria is just that, subject to bias. An iq test is completely objective, and not subject to any bias. Wisc is best indicator of intelligence. PP, you sound like a parent whose kid is in aap as a result of subjective criteria. My kid is in aap with a 16 GBRS, 99% CogAT and 155 NNAT. Kid is in 6th grade aap, fwiw. As for Wisc, let's just say, again, the 99%. iow, my kid is a 1%er and actually belongs in aap. Most of DCs classmates probably have only average IQs and don't really belong. Wisc 130 plus belong in aap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Subjective criteria is just that, subject to bias. An iq test is completely objective, and not subject to any bias. Wisc is best indicator of intelligence. PP, you sound like a parent whose kid is in aap as a result of subjective criteria. My kid is in aap with a 16 GBRS, 99% CogAT and 155 NNAT. Kid is in 6th grade aap, fwiw. As for Wisc, let's just say, again, the 99%. iow, my kid is a 1%er and actually belongs in aap. Most of DCs classmates probably have only average IQs and don't really belong. Wisc 130 plus belong in aap.

Get in touch with your elected officials in Richmond and have them change the regulations for the Commonwealth of Virginia. The Virginia Department of Education does not agree with you.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+reg+8VAC20-40-40

3. The identification process used by each school division must ensure that no single criterion is used to determine a student's eligibility. The identification process shall include at least three measures from the following categories:
a. Assessment of appropriate student products, performance, or portfolio;
b. Record of observation of in-classroom behavior;
c. Appropriate rating scales, checklists, or questionnaires;
d. Individual interview;
e. Individually administered or group-administered, nationally norm-referenced aptitude or achievement tests;
f. Record of previous accomplishments (such as awards, honors, grades, etc.); or
g. Additional valid and reliable measures or procedures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Subjective criteria is just that, subject to bias. An iq test is completely objective, and not subject to any bias. Wisc is best indicator of intelligence. PP, you sound like a parent whose kid is in aap as a result of subjective criteria. My kid is in aap with a 16 GBRS, 99% CogAT and 155 NNAT. Kid is in 6th grade aap, fwiw. As for Wisc, let's just say, again, the 99%. iow, my kid is a 1%er and actually belongs in aap. Most of DCs classmates probably have only average IQs and don't really belong. Wisc 130 plus belong in aap.

You need to be more careful when you are creating fictitious data. The current 6th graders were given the NNAT, not the NNAT 2 that is currently used. The highest possible score on the NNAT was 150, so a 155 is impossible.

It's bad enough when people feel like flashing a kid's scores will make them sound more credible, but it's even worse when those scores are completely made up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:clearly a child with a high IQ is bright. a child with a high GBRS may not be bright, just liked by the teacher. i guess which would you rather have in the class?

I think though, most teachers try to be "objective" in coming up with the subjective GBRS number. I think the parameters might be a little faulty though. my child is clearly bright, high IQ, but very shy. hence a lower gbrs.

I have heard that the AAP selection committee is biased against very shy children. I wonder if there are many activities (presentations and such) that could make AAP an uncomfortable experience for a very shy child? Those with kids already in AAP, is it a difficult environment for a shy child?

A lot of hooey, like so much on this board. My shy child easily got in. Here's the thing, unless your child is off the charts smart you should count yourself lucky of they get in. Anyone else will do fine in a local school, and I think deep down parents know this or there wouldn't be so much angst on this board.

It was stated by someone with firsthand knowledge of the process, but take it or leave it.

Don't see how "deep down parents know this" leads logically to "or there wouldn't be so much angst on this board." If parents knew deep down that their kids would do fine in a local school, they should have less angst, not more.

That's fair. I can see how this would be misinterpreted. What I meant was that I think if parents are worried about the committee not finding their child "gifted" or "qualified for AAP," perhaps they know deep down that they don't really need it. They may want their kids in the program, but the kids will not die or fail to be educated if they're not. People flock to buy homes here in Fairfax County because of the schools -- when did the basic schools, general ed, what have you, become not good enough?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Subjective criteria is just that, subject to bias. An iq test is completely objective, and not subject to any bias. Wisc is best indicator of intelligence. PP, you sound like a parent whose kid is in aap as a result of subjective criteria. My kid is in aap with a 16 GBRS, 99% CogAT and 155 NNAT. Kid is in 6th grade aap, fwiw. As for Wisc, let's just say, again, the 99%. iow, my kid is a 1%er and actually belongs in aap. Most of DCs classmates probably have only average IQs and don't really belong. Wisc 130 plus belong in aap.

You need to be more careful when you are creating fictitious data. The current 6th graders were given the NNAT, not the NNAT 2 that is currently used. The highest possible score on the NNAT was 150, so a 155 is impossible.

It's bad enough when people feel like flashing a kid's scores will make them sound more credible, but it's even worse when those scores are completely made up. [/quote

DC is 6th grade, and NNAT was a 155. Not the NNAT2. Actually, DC was given NNAT twice, once in KG and again in 2nd along with the cogat, that is how the process used to be. Now it is NNAT in 1st and cogat in 2nd. Why would I lie about DCs scores?

[Anonymous]

And, back then the highest score possible was a 160 on the NNAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And, back then the highest score possible was a 160 on the NNAT.

Rught NNAT highest score possible 160

[Anonymous]

my son got NNAT 160 full score he is in.