Anonymous wrote:My kid got home from first grade today and started telling me there is a kid in his class who is mean to other kids and get SO MAD. Today he got SO MAD he threw a chair. So, what is my recourse here?
Nothing because of Sped laws in this country. Move to Europe instead?
Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I have a special needs kid like this
They offered to place him in a Nonverbal autistic class because of his intense behaviors
Or a regular class with no support. My son is at grade level academically. In other to get him the 1:1 support he needs, he needs to fail out of the regular class.
Blame the administration for making this insane system.
And yes, you should press charges if they do something life threatening. The school will be forced to deal with it.
Not sure what district you are in, but FCPS has an emotional disabilities program with self-contained classes for this type of child. It's pretty hard to get into though, and also not necessarily a good place to be. But they have it.
These posts just make it clear the parents of normal kids need to advocate for them. We can be sure the parents of the chair throwers will be advocating for their kids to stay in the class room no matter how bad their behavior is. Like one of the pps said, less empathy is needed here not more.
I’ve never heard of a parent fighting for a LESS restrictive placement. Everyone wants more services, not less. The problem comes in when the schools aren’t forthcoming about the options. Because most parents have no idea what even to ask for or how to go about asking for it in an effective manner. And the schools LOVE to fight about this stuff and will absolutely hire outside counsel to not have to pay to send a kid to an outside placement for kids with behavioral difficulties. It’s extremely daunting to go up against a large school district especially when you’re pretty sure you’re not going to win and the end outcome is going to be you wasted time and $$$ only for them to place your kid right back at the neighborhood school.
Some do, particularly for more profound disabilities. But setting aside private placement, given that’s nearly impossible to get, most parents that I know with kids learning at grade level want their kids to stay in the home school. They don’t want a more restrictive placement— they want more supports in the general education classroom.
But the schools also fight that. Sometimes the schools and principals don’t want to fight for the money. And there are some, like the disgraced former MCPS principal that’s been bashing kids with disabilities in these threads, that simply don’t want to deal with these kids and try to inappropriately ship them off to self-contained programs.
In my child's case, an aide would be much much cheaper than private placement... and we know it works.
Child now has an aide and is totally fine. You don't want to know how hard it is to get there.
Of course it is hard, and it’s not because administrators don’t support teachers or don’t want to fight for funding. There is no funding!!! The request for Special ED has exploded. Most often they have to cut programs or teachers to make room for additional Special Ed. Your child does not need an accommodation, they need a whole salaried employee dedicated to them.
No they do not. They need access to a classroom for kids like them. Why is there like one of these in each district? There needs to be at least one - per school!!
Because parents, especially in wealthy districts, want their kids in mainstream classrooms with an IEP and aid.
In Boston there is uproar that Special Ed kids are being sent in Special Ed classes or school. The SJW are demanding mainstream integration.
+1. It’s even written into many IEP’s that these kids require grade level peers. That is not my child’s responsibility.
So keep yours in virtual. No one is stopping you.
My child is not violent and doesn’t disrupt class.
These are not requirements for public school attendance.
But feel free to start your own school with these requirements.
Assault is not legal. I guess I could just call the cops if my kid gets hurt by another child and sue the family.
Go right ahead!
You must think you're being a really good ally and helpful, but you're just a clown at this point.
No, you are the helpful one trying to stop other children from having access to education.
Mainstreaming these kids is actually depriving them of the therapy they need to make progress. It is the worst possible thing since it also harms the rest of the class.
Are you their therapist? Are you their teacher? Are you their pediatrician? If not shut up and focus on your kid.
My kid is under threat of violence and constant class disruptions because of terrible parenting choices by others who don’t get their kids proper therapy and just mainstream.
You "just get therapy" posters are hugely unaware of the struggle to find therapists and the time it takes for therapies to result in real change. I't not an easy and quick fix, and struggling children are entitled to FAPE just like the "normal" kids.
So it takes years of specialized therapy to make progress but a non professional like a teacher is supposed to provide these services daily, while also educating 20 other children?
FAPE does not entitle these children to a mainstream classroom. Meanwhile, all students and teachers are entitled to safety. Schools that knowingly fail to prevent physical harm get sued.
I am not sure the PP is disagreeing with you. But what are the solutions? If you don't have any, that's fine. Keep fighting by telling your school that the current situation is untenable. But if you tell them you want somebody else's child out of the school and at home, they will look at you like an idiot, which would be what your are if you think that's a good solution
In our case we bugged the principal for an aide. Parents kept holding meeting after meeting with him. I am not sure how he got it done, but he did.
While this was happening, they moved the kid to sit next to the teacher on a separate desk. And the staff and volunteer parents during recess were told to pay special attention to that kid. This helped a lot.
You're delusional if you think the teachers don't secretly agree that some kids would be better served outside the classroom. Do you think they like being abused by their students? They are often caught in the fray.
You are asking silly questions with obvious answers. Of course no one likes being abused. Duh.
Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I have a special needs kid like this
They offered to place him in a Nonverbal autistic class because of his intense behaviors
Or a regular class with no support. My son is at grade level academically. In other to get him the 1:1 support he needs, he needs to fail out of the regular class.
Blame the administration for making this insane system.
And yes, you should press charges if they do something life threatening. The school will be forced to deal with it.
Not sure what district you are in, but FCPS has an emotional disabilities program with self-contained classes for this type of child. It's pretty hard to get into though, and also not necessarily a good place to be. But they have it.
These posts just make it clear the parents of normal kids need to advocate for them. We can be sure the parents of the chair throwers will be advocating for their kids to stay in the class room no matter how bad their behavior is. Like one of the pps said, less empathy is needed here not more.
I’ve never heard of a parent fighting for a LESS restrictive placement. Everyone wants more services, not less. The problem comes in when the schools aren’t forthcoming about the options. Because most parents have no idea what even to ask for or how to go about asking for it in an effective manner. And the schools LOVE to fight about this stuff and will absolutely hire outside counsel to not have to pay to send a kid to an outside placement for kids with behavioral difficulties. It’s extremely daunting to go up against a large school district especially when you’re pretty sure you’re not going to win and the end outcome is going to be you wasted time and $$$ only for them to place your kid right back at the neighborhood school.
Some do, particularly for more profound disabilities. But setting aside private placement, given that’s nearly impossible to get, most parents that I know with kids learning at grade level want their kids to stay in the home school. They don’t want a more restrictive placement— they want more supports in the general education classroom.
But the schools also fight that. Sometimes the schools and principals don’t want to fight for the money. And there are some, like the disgraced former MCPS principal that’s been bashing kids with disabilities in these threads, that simply don’t want to deal with these kids and try to inappropriately ship them off to self-contained programs.
In my child's case, an aide would be much much cheaper than private placement... and we know it works.
Child now has an aide and is totally fine. You don't want to know how hard it is to get there.
Of course it is hard, and it’s not because administrators don’t support teachers or don’t want to fight for funding. There is no funding!!! The request for Special ED has exploded. Most often they have to cut programs or teachers to make room for additional Special Ed. Your child does not need an accommodation, they need a whole salaried employee dedicated to them.
No they do not. They need access to a classroom for kids like them. Why is there like one of these in each district? There needs to be at least one - per school!!
Because parents, especially in wealthy districts, want their kids in mainstream classrooms with an IEP and aid.
In Boston there is uproar that Special Ed kids are being sent in Special Ed classes or school. The SJW are demanding mainstream integration.
+1. It’s even written into many IEP’s that these kids require grade level peers. That is not my child’s responsibility.
So keep yours in virtual. No one is stopping you.
My child is not violent and doesn’t disrupt class.
These are not requirements for public school attendance.
But feel free to start your own school with these requirements.
Assault is not legal. I guess I could just call the cops if my kid gets hurt by another child and sue the family.
Go right ahead!
You must think you're being a really good ally and helpful, but you're just a clown at this point.
No, you are the helpful one trying to stop other children from having access to education.
Mainstreaming these kids is actually depriving them of the therapy they need to make progress. It is the worst possible thing since it also harms the rest of the class.
Are you their therapist? Are you their teacher? Are you their pediatrician? If not shut up and focus on your kid.
My kid is under threat of violence and constant class disruptions because of terrible parenting choices by others who don’t get their kids proper therapy and just mainstream.
You "just get therapy" posters are hugely unaware of the struggle to find therapists and the time it takes for therapies to result in real change. I't not an easy and quick fix, and struggling children are entitled to FAPE just like the "normal" kids.
So it takes years of specialized therapy to make progress but a non professional like a teacher is supposed to provide these services daily, while also educating 20 other children?
FAPE does not entitle these children to a mainstream classroom. Meanwhile, all students and teachers are entitled to safety. Schools that knowingly fail to prevent physical harm get sued.
I am not sure the PP is disagreeing with you. But what are the solutions? If you don't have any, that's fine. Keep fighting by telling your school that the current situation is untenable. But if you tell them you want somebody else's child out of the school and at home, they will look at you like an idiot, which would be what your are if you think that's a good solution
In our case we bugged the principal for an aide. Parents kept holding meeting after meeting with him. I am not sure how he got it done, but he did.
While this was happening, they moved the kid to sit next to the teacher on a separate desk. And the staff and volunteer parents during recess were told to pay special attention to that kid. This helped a lot.
I had my lawyer write a letter to the superintendent highlighting their liability if they continued to keep in a mainstream classroom the aggressive child. They acted.
Anonymous wrote:My kid got home from first grade today and started telling me there is a kid in his class who is mean to other kids and get SO MAD. Today he got SO MAD he threw a chair. So, what is my recourse here?
Nothing because of Sped laws in this country. Move to Europe instead?
DP.
If you dont mind answering, how do they handle in Europe?
Anonymous wrote:NP---My kid was a chair thrower in elem school. He was my 2nd and Yes I knew something wasn't right by about 2. I went to the dev ped who said wait and see. The regular ped had no advice. It wasn't until the end of PreK 3 that the preschool indicated that this was so far above the norm that they would no longer work with him.
Got my kid into PEP and with a high teacher/student ratio and small classes, he did fine. So well in fact that they closed his IEP going into K. At the general K meeting for incoming students in May, I asked what the plan was.....I was told that during the first few months of K, it is all hands on deck. That does not sound like a solid plan to me. I put my kid in private and the smaller classes worked well until 2nd grade.
In 2nd grade, I moved my kid to public, met with the principal, told him what was going on and that I wanted to start the IEP process. He said we needed to wait. Not surprisingly, I got a call within the first week that we needed to start the IEP process. It took me 6 months to get his IEP back in place and that was with me providing an outside evaluation. Had I wanted to use the school psychologist, the timeline would have been longer. In retrospect, I wish I had sent my kid to public K. The IEP would have happened earlier in his school career.
All this is to say---for parents with NT children, be grateful your kid can regulate. As many others have pointed out, many of us are doing all we can to get both our kids and your kids the appropriate education. We want our kids moved to the right environment. Even when the school is working with us, there are timelines everyone has to follow. It is not good for anyone. But to come on DCUM and tell us that we are crappy parents, that our kids deserve to be beaten, that they should be regulated to virtual learning, that our kids do not deserve the same education that your child receives is wrong and infuriating. I truly hope that no one in your family ever has to manage a child with an invisible disability.
To be fair, the parent of the neurodivergent child is telling others that their child deserves to have a chair thrown in his face again and again until his parents can't handle it and divorce. Do you think other kids deserve to be attacked in school as well? They are children too, deserving of an education in a safe environment, they aren't just tools serving as peer models in the classroom.
I agree with you. No one deserves to be in an unsafe environment. Not NT kids, not teachers, not administrators, not the kid with special needs. The issue is with the way the school system handles the bureaucracy and limits the number of seats available in specialized programs. My kid has been in non public and is now in a self contained classroom. In both scenarios, there were between 6-8 kids in his class. Just from this thread alone, I would surmise that there are more than 6-8 kids per grade that need the help. In self contained classes, the class is often the grade. Looking at MCPS, there are 2 locations for HFA students--so lets say they take a total of 16 kids across the county per grade (1-5) or 80 kids in total. There are 3 Bridge MS and HS programs. So again, 24 kids per grade across the county. I'm not familiar with SESES or ESESES so I can't comment on how many kids are in those programs.
For many of these dysregulated kids, the root of the issue is anxiety. A smaller number of bodies in the room creates less chaos, less noise, enables more adult supervision. When a kid with anxiety gets overwhelmed, there is the fight or flight response. Both responses require a large amount of adult intervention. Smaller classes would benefit all kids. But smaller classes cost money.
Why isn't virtual schooling an option then? Reduces anxiety, small class, fewer adults needed, costs less. Seems like a pretty good solution.
If virtual schooling is such a great option, then why did so many parents argue that it wasn't good during the pandemic? What do the kids that don't have stable internet do? How does a teacher keep a child engaged over a screen? How does a parent that has to work leave a child home alone? Yes---I hear you---school is not daycare, parents cannot transfer parenting responsibilities to the schools. But realistically---parents have to work and the child will be left home alone. There will be no one there to make sure that a child is receiving an education. An uneducated child becomes an uneducated adult. It kicks the can down the road. This person will require more social services in the long run.
Because it isn't a good option for all kids, obviously. We're talking about a subset of kids. The kids with extreme anxiety or dysregulation like the PP was mentioning. Other kids do well in full classrooms and don't require lot of adult intervention. But I see that it's more about convenience for the parent vs what is best for the child.
It's not always so black and white. Sure, if the child with SN is an only child in a 2 parent household with a SAHP, then virtual schooling could work. But if the choice is send your kid to school so you can work and house and feed your family, then that's what you're going to do. You're showing the bias in this thread---you take your kids needs into account first--as you should. To you, your child is more important than someone elses child with special needs. As far as your concerned, this is that parents issue and they need to deal with it.
From a parent with multiple children they need to look out for their overall family. If they stop going to work where will they live? How will they eat? Their priority is their family, not yours.
You are doing the same. Your child is more important than the other 20. But the dysregulated prone to outbursts child isn't being served well in public schools. No matter how tolerant or accepting the other children and staff may be. If that was the best place for these kids then your argument would make sense and these kids wouldn't act out so much. It's not working.
I agree with you. I pointed out earlier that specialized classes are restricted in numbers. When FAPE was introduced at the federal level, there was no funding provided for the States to implement it. School systems are doing the best they can with the resources they have while following the laws. It is not working for anyone.
It needs to be fixed so ALL children can receive a free and appropriate education.
But free and appropriate can't always mean a mainstream classroom. Virtual schooling needs to be one of the options until the maturity catches up. Parents may have to make hard choices and put career on the back burner. The government should pay them a stipend to oversee the kids education in the meantime.
Virtual schooling is an option IF the team deems, through the IEP process, that virtual education the appropriate means to meet the child’s needs.
Now you're balking. That means the parents have to agree also. Some parents don't want to deal with this. Work becomes an escape from reality and they'd rather the school do the heavy lifting even if the setting isn't appropriate.
You have a child who can do well either virtual school or homeschooling but choose to send them to public school because it is their right.
Those parents pay taxes like you.
And they actually need that break. You don't. If someone should keep their kids at home, it's you.
A school is not a medical facility. It's not an educator's job to be a therapist or provide a break for parents, nor should a school district shoulder all the financial burden of a child's mental health.
The school is a place to learn. The child throwing chairs and many other children are learning. If yours isn't, move yours to virtual.
It's extremely telling that not one parent of a chair thrower wants to do virtual. Plenty of other kids do virtual, homeschool, and do well. It's perfectly clear parents don't want to be responsible for their own kids. They can't handle their own kids yet expect schools to work magic while they hide at work avoiding the problem.
You’re right. Because virtual is not an answer for all children who have behavior issues. Virtual gets your child a calm classroom. But it does not provide the same education your child receives in person. It does not provide the peer learning, the socialization, access to school wide assemblies. As long as you are only focused on the needs of your child why shouldn’t the parents of children with SN only be focused on the needs of their children?
Exactly!
Maybe because the disruptive kids are DISRUPTING the education of the other children? A well-behaved child isn't bothering anyone so why should their needs not matter?
Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I have a special needs kid like this
They offered to place him in a Nonverbal autistic class because of his intense behaviors
Or a regular class with no support. My son is at grade level academically. In other to get him the 1:1 support he needs, he needs to fail out of the regular class.
Blame the administration for making this insane system.
And yes, you should press charges if they do something life threatening. The school will be forced to deal with it.
Not sure what district you are in, but FCPS has an emotional disabilities program with self-contained classes for this type of child. It's pretty hard to get into though, and also not necessarily a good place to be. But they have it.
These posts just make it clear the parents of normal kids need to advocate for them. We can be sure the parents of the chair throwers will be advocating for their kids to stay in the class room no matter how bad their behavior is. Like one of the pps said, less empathy is needed here not more.
I’ve never heard of a parent fighting for a LESS restrictive placement. Everyone wants more services, not less. The problem comes in when the schools aren’t forthcoming about the options. Because most parents have no idea what even to ask for or how to go about asking for it in an effective manner. And the schools LOVE to fight about this stuff and will absolutely hire outside counsel to not have to pay to send a kid to an outside placement for kids with behavioral difficulties. It’s extremely daunting to go up against a large school district especially when you’re pretty sure you’re not going to win and the end outcome is going to be you wasted time and $$$ only for them to place your kid right back at the neighborhood school.
Some do, particularly for more profound disabilities. But setting aside private placement, given that’s nearly impossible to get, most parents that I know with kids learning at grade level want their kids to stay in the home school. They don’t want a more restrictive placement— they want more supports in the general education classroom.
But the schools also fight that. Sometimes the schools and principals don’t want to fight for the money. And there are some, like the disgraced former MCPS principal that’s been bashing kids with disabilities in these threads, that simply don’t want to deal with these kids and try to inappropriately ship them off to self-contained programs.
In my child's case, an aide would be much much cheaper than private placement... and we know it works.
Child now has an aide and is totally fine. You don't want to know how hard it is to get there.
Of course it is hard, and it’s not because administrators don’t support teachers or don’t want to fight for funding. There is no funding!!! The request for Special ED has exploded. Most often they have to cut programs or teachers to make room for additional Special Ed. Your child does not need an accommodation, they need a whole salaried employee dedicated to them.
No they do not. They need access to a classroom for kids like them. Why is there like one of these in each district? There needs to be at least one - per school!!
Because parents, especially in wealthy districts, want their kids in mainstream classrooms with an IEP and aid.
In Boston there is uproar that Special Ed kids are being sent in Special Ed classes or school. The SJW are demanding mainstream integration.
+1. It’s even written into many IEP’s that these kids require grade level peers. That is not my child’s responsibility.
So keep yours in virtual. No one is stopping you.
My child is not violent and doesn’t disrupt class.
These are not requirements for public school attendance.
But feel free to start your own school with these requirements.
Assault is not legal. I guess I could just call the cops if my kid gets hurt by another child and sue the family.
Go right ahead!
You must think you're being a really good ally and helpful, but you're just a clown at this point.
No, you are the helpful one trying to stop other children from having access to education.
Mainstreaming these kids is actually depriving them of the therapy they need to make progress. It is the worst possible thing since it also harms the rest of the class.
Are you their therapist? Are you their teacher? Are you their pediatrician? If not shut up and focus on your kid.
My kid is under threat of violence and constant class disruptions because of terrible parenting choices by others who don’t get their kids proper therapy and just mainstream.
You "just get therapy" posters are hugely unaware of the struggle to find therapists and the time it takes for therapies to result in real change. I't not an easy and quick fix, and struggling children are entitled to FAPE just like the "normal" kids.
So it takes years of specialized therapy to make progress but a non professional like a teacher is supposed to provide these services daily, while also educating 20 other children?
FAPE does not entitle these children to a mainstream classroom. Meanwhile, all students and teachers are entitled to safety. Schools that knowingly fail to prevent physical harm get sued.
I am not sure the PP is disagreeing with you. But what are the solutions? If you don't have any, that's fine. Keep fighting by telling your school that the current situation is untenable. But if you tell them you want somebody else's child out of the school and at home, they will look at you like an idiot, which would be what your are if you think that's a good solution
In our case we bugged the principal for an aide. Parents kept holding meeting after meeting with him. I am not sure how he got it done, but he did.
While this was happening, they moved the kid to sit next to the teacher on a separate desk. And the staff and volunteer parents during recess were told to pay special attention to that kid. This helped a lot.
I had my lawyer write a letter to the superintendent highlighting their liability if they continued to keep in a mainstream classroom the aggressive child. They acted.
Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I have a special needs kid like this
They offered to place him in a Nonverbal autistic class because of his intense behaviors
Or a regular class with no support. My son is at grade level academically. In other to get him the 1:1 support he needs, he needs to fail out of the regular class.
Blame the administration for making this insane system.
And yes, you should press charges if they do something life threatening. The school will be forced to deal with it.
Not sure what district you are in, but FCPS has an emotional disabilities program with self-contained classes for this type of child. It's pretty hard to get into though, and also not necessarily a good place to be. But they have it.
These posts just make it clear the parents of normal kids need to advocate for them. We can be sure the parents of the chair throwers will be advocating for their kids to stay in the class room no matter how bad their behavior is. Like one of the pps said, less empathy is needed here not more.
I’ve never heard of a parent fighting for a LESS restrictive placement. Everyone wants more services, not less. The problem comes in when the schools aren’t forthcoming about the options. Because most parents have no idea what even to ask for or how to go about asking for it in an effective manner. And the schools LOVE to fight about this stuff and will absolutely hire outside counsel to not have to pay to send a kid to an outside placement for kids with behavioral difficulties. It’s extremely daunting to go up against a large school district especially when you’re pretty sure you’re not going to win and the end outcome is going to be you wasted time and $$$ only for them to place your kid right back at the neighborhood school.
Some do, particularly for more profound disabilities. But setting aside private placement, given that’s nearly impossible to get, most parents that I know with kids learning at grade level want their kids to stay in the home school. They don’t want a more restrictive placement— they want more supports in the general education classroom.
But the schools also fight that. Sometimes the schools and principals don’t want to fight for the money. And there are some, like the disgraced former MCPS principal that’s been bashing kids with disabilities in these threads, that simply don’t want to deal with these kids and try to inappropriately ship them off to self-contained programs.
In my child's case, an aide would be much much cheaper than private placement... and we know it works.
Child now has an aide and is totally fine. You don't want to know how hard it is to get there.
Of course it is hard, and it’s not because administrators don’t support teachers or don’t want to fight for funding. There is no funding!!! The request for Special ED has exploded. Most often they have to cut programs or teachers to make room for additional Special Ed. Your child does not need an accommodation, they need a whole salaried employee dedicated to them.
No they do not. They need access to a classroom for kids like them. Why is there like one of these in each district? There needs to be at least one - per school!!
Because parents, especially in wealthy districts, want their kids in mainstream classrooms with an IEP and aid.
In Boston there is uproar that Special Ed kids are being sent in Special Ed classes or school. The SJW are demanding mainstream integration.
+1. It’s even written into many IEP’s that these kids require grade level peers. That is not my child’s responsibility.
So keep yours in virtual. No one is stopping you.
My child is not violent and doesn’t disrupt class.
These are not requirements for public school attendance.
But feel free to start your own school with these requirements.
Assault is not legal. I guess I could just call the cops if my kid gets hurt by another child and sue the family.
Go right ahead!
You must think you're being a really good ally and helpful, but you're just a clown at this point.
No, you are the helpful one trying to stop other children from having access to education.
Mainstreaming these kids is actually depriving them of the therapy they need to make progress. It is the worst possible thing since it also harms the rest of the class.
Are you their therapist? Are you their teacher? Are you their pediatrician? If not shut up and focus on your kid.
My kid is under threat of violence and constant class disruptions because of terrible parenting choices by others who don’t get their kids proper therapy and just mainstream.
You "just get therapy" posters are hugely unaware of the struggle to find therapists and the time it takes for therapies to result in real change. I't not an easy and quick fix, and struggling children are entitled to FAPE just like the "normal" kids.
So it takes years of specialized therapy to make progress but a non professional like a teacher is supposed to provide these services daily, while also educating 20 other children?
FAPE does not entitle these children to a mainstream classroom. Meanwhile, all students and teachers are entitled to safety. Schools that knowingly fail to prevent physical harm get sued.
I am not sure the PP is disagreeing with you. But what are the solutions? If you don't have any, that's fine. Keep fighting by telling your school that the current situation is untenable. But if you tell them you want somebody else's child out of the school and at home, they will look at you like an idiot, which would be what your are if you think that's a good solution
In our case we bugged the principal for an aide. Parents kept holding meeting after meeting with him. I am not sure how he got it done, but he did.
While this was happening, they moved the kid to sit next to the teacher on a separate desk. And the staff and volunteer parents during recess were told to pay special attention to that kid. This helped a lot.
I had my lawyer write a letter to the superintendent highlighting their liability if they continued to keep in a mainstream classroom the aggressive child. They acted.
Anonymous wrote:My kid got home from first grade today and started telling me there is a kid in his class who is mean to other kids and get SO MAD. Today he got SO MAD he threw a chair. So, what is my recourse here?
Nothing because of Sped laws in this country. Move to Europe instead?
Or just go private. That’s what we did and haven’t looked back. Best decision ever!
Anonymous wrote:^ and the jerks I am referring to are the parents trying to insist that the children throwing chairs should stay home.
Why shouldn't they? They should be suspended for a certain amount of time to get behavior under control before given another chance.
So what if the parents can't get the behavior under control? Should these kids not get educated?
Violent kids have bigger issues and perhaps should enter full time therapy so they can be addressed properly instead of being ignored in school.
Cool. Want to tell us where to find “full time therapy” and tell me which health insurance plan pays for it? Cause I’m over here trying to find an in-network child psychologist for my kid with availability, and no dice. Surely you have a solution?
You pay for it.
I can’t afford it. The vast majority of people can’t. Full time therapy (like a partial in patient program) can be a hundred thousand dollars private pay, if you can even get a spot. If your family income is that of an average American, say $90k, there is simply no way to make it work. None.
What makes you think the average tax payer can afford to fund it? Also why should they fund your medical bills and not those of parents of children with Cystic Fibrosis or any other hardship?
Are you asking why health insurance should cover health care? Perhaps you’d like to go without yourself? You don’t need that cancer medicine, do you? No chemo for you! Good parents don’t get cancer, after all. They stay healthy so the normal tax payer isn’t inconvenienced!
Actually, if my kid gets cancer, I can't drop her off at school and tell the school the cancer is their problem because its too expensive for me to solve. If my kid gets sick I'm on my own.
Schools don’t take over medical care for kids with mental health issues either. They just provide an education which would happen for a kid with cancer too.
Not true. Schools are expected to control the behavior, which is a symptom of the “illness” and not part of educating the student.
Schools are accommodating disabilities, not providing treatment. A 1:1 aide or smaller class is a tool to help the child access education just like a wheelchair ramp.
I think this a large part of the problem. Now all behavioral issues are being labeled disabilities- when many times, they aren’t. They are the result of environment/poor parenting.
Sometimes environment and poor parenting can cause or exacerbate disabilities. Like the diabetic child whose parents don’t pay attention to diet. Schools still accommodate the consequences of that poor parenting choice.
And I doubt that a significant number of kids who are labeled with a disability due to behavioral issues could have that disability attributed to bad parenting. It’s pretty easy to be holier than thou when you haven’t experienced real challenges.
Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I have a special needs kid like this
They offered to place him in a Nonverbal autistic class because of his intense behaviors
Or a regular class with no support. My son is at grade level academically. In other to get him the 1:1 support he needs, he needs to fail out of the regular class.
Blame the administration for making this insane system.
And yes, you should press charges if they do something life threatening. The school will be forced to deal with it.
Not sure what district you are in, but FCPS has an emotional disabilities program with self-contained classes for this type of child. It's pretty hard to get into though, and also not necessarily a good place to be. But they have it.
These posts just make it clear the parents of normal kids need to advocate for them. We can be sure the parents of the chair throwers will be advocating for their kids to stay in the class room no matter how bad their behavior is. Like one of the pps said, less empathy is needed here not more.
I’ve never heard of a parent fighting for a LESS restrictive placement. Everyone wants more services, not less. The problem comes in when the schools aren’t forthcoming about the options. Because most parents have no idea what even to ask for or how to go about asking for it in an effective manner. And the schools LOVE to fight about this stuff and will absolutely hire outside counsel to not have to pay to send a kid to an outside placement for kids with behavioral difficulties. It’s extremely daunting to go up against a large school district especially when you’re pretty sure you’re not going to win and the end outcome is going to be you wasted time and $$$ only for them to place your kid right back at the neighborhood school.
Some do, particularly for more profound disabilities. But setting aside private placement, given that’s nearly impossible to get, most parents that I know with kids learning at grade level want their kids to stay in the home school. They don’t want a more restrictive placement— they want more supports in the general education classroom.
But the schools also fight that. Sometimes the schools and principals don’t want to fight for the money. And there are some, like the disgraced former MCPS principal that’s been bashing kids with disabilities in these threads, that simply don’t want to deal with these kids and try to inappropriately ship them off to self-contained programs.
In my child's case, an aide would be much much cheaper than private placement... and we know it works.
Child now has an aide and is totally fine. You don't want to know how hard it is to get there.
Of course it is hard, and it’s not because administrators don’t support teachers or don’t want to fight for funding. There is no funding!!! The request for Special ED has exploded. Most often they have to cut programs or teachers to make room for additional Special Ed. Your child does not need an accommodation, they need a whole salaried employee dedicated to them.
No they do not. They need access to a classroom for kids like them. Why is there like one of these in each district? There needs to be at least one - per school!!
Because parents, especially in wealthy districts, want their kids in mainstream classrooms with an IEP and aid.
In Boston there is uproar that Special Ed kids are being sent in Special Ed classes or school. The SJW are demanding mainstream integration.
+1. It’s even written into many IEP’s that these kids require grade level peers. That is not my child’s responsibility.
So keep yours in virtual. No one is stopping you.
My child is not violent and doesn’t disrupt class.
These are not requirements for public school attendance.
But feel free to start your own school with these requirements.
Assault is not legal. I guess I could just call the cops if my kid gets hurt by another child and sue the family.
Go right ahead!
You must think you're being a really good ally and helpful, but you're just a clown at this point.
No, you are the helpful one trying to stop other children from having access to education.
Mainstreaming these kids is actually depriving them of the therapy they need to make progress. It is the worst possible thing since it also harms the rest of the class.
Are you their therapist? Are you their teacher? Are you their pediatrician? If not shut up and focus on your kid.
My kid is under threat of violence and constant class disruptions because of terrible parenting choices by others who don’t get their kids proper therapy and just mainstream.
You "just get therapy" posters are hugely unaware of the struggle to find therapists and the time it takes for therapies to result in real change. I't not an easy and quick fix, and struggling children are entitled to FAPE just like the "normal" kids.
So it takes years of specialized therapy to make progress but a non professional like a teacher is supposed to provide these services daily, while also educating 20 other children?
FAPE does not entitle these children to a mainstream classroom. Meanwhile, all students and teachers are entitled to safety. Schools that knowingly fail to prevent physical harm get sued.
I am not sure the PP is disagreeing with you. But what are the solutions? If you don't have any, that's fine. Keep fighting by telling your school that the current situation is untenable. But if you tell them you want somebody else's child out of the school and at home, they will look at you like an idiot, which would be what your are if you think that's a good solution
In our case we bugged the principal for an aide. Parents kept holding meeting after meeting with him. I am not sure how he got it done, but he did.
While this was happening, they moved the kid to sit next to the teacher on a separate desk. And the staff and volunteer parents during recess were told to pay special attention to that kid. This helped a lot.
I had my lawyer write a letter to the superintendent highlighting their liability if they continued to keep in a mainstream classroom the aggressive child. They acted.
What did they do?
Documented their rationale for segregation and got kid moved to self contained classroom in another school. Took 2 months.
Anonymous wrote:NP---My kid was a chair thrower in elem school. He was my 2nd and Yes I knew something wasn't right by about 2. I went to the dev ped who said wait and see. The regular ped had no advice. It wasn't until the end of PreK 3 that the preschool indicated that this was so far above the norm that they would no longer work with him.
Got my kid into PEP and with a high teacher/student ratio and small classes, he did fine. So well in fact that they closed his IEP going into K. At the general K meeting for incoming students in May, I asked what the plan was.....I was told that during the first few months of K, it is all hands on deck. That does not sound like a solid plan to me. I put my kid in private and the smaller classes worked well until 2nd grade.
In 2nd grade, I moved my kid to public, met with the principal, told him what was going on and that I wanted to start the IEP process. He said we needed to wait. Not surprisingly, I got a call within the first week that we needed to start the IEP process. It took me 6 months to get his IEP back in place and that was with me providing an outside evaluation. Had I wanted to use the school psychologist, the timeline would have been longer. In retrospect, I wish I had sent my kid to public K. The IEP would have happened earlier in his school career.
All this is to say---for parents with NT children, be grateful your kid can regulate. As many others have pointed out, many of us are doing all we can to get both our kids and your kids the appropriate education. We want our kids moved to the right environment. Even when the school is working with us, there are timelines everyone has to follow. It is not good for anyone. But to come on DCUM and tell us that we are crappy parents, that our kids deserve to be beaten, that they should be regulated to virtual learning, that our kids do not deserve the same education that your child receives is wrong and infuriating. I truly hope that no one in your family ever has to manage a child with an invisible disability.
To be fair, the parent of the neurodivergent child is telling others that their child deserves to have a chair thrown in his face again and again until his parents can't handle it and divorce. Do you think other kids deserve to be attacked in school as well? They are children too, deserving of an education in a safe environment, they aren't just tools serving as peer models in the classroom.
I agree with you. No one deserves to be in an unsafe environment. Not NT kids, not teachers, not administrators, not the kid with special needs. The issue is with the way the school system handles the bureaucracy and limits the number of seats available in specialized programs. My kid has been in non public and is now in a self contained classroom. In both scenarios, there were between 6-8 kids in his class. Just from this thread alone, I would surmise that there are more than 6-8 kids per grade that need the help. In self contained classes, the class is often the grade. Looking at MCPS, there are 2 locations for HFA students--so lets say they take a total of 16 kids across the county per grade (1-5) or 80 kids in total. There are 3 Bridge MS and HS programs. So again, 24 kids per grade across the county. I'm not familiar with SESES or ESESES so I can't comment on how many kids are in those programs.
For many of these dysregulated kids, the root of the issue is anxiety. A smaller number of bodies in the room creates less chaos, less noise, enables more adult supervision. When a kid with anxiety gets overwhelmed, there is the fight or flight response. Both responses require a large amount of adult intervention. Smaller classes would benefit all kids. But smaller classes cost money.
Why isn't virtual schooling an option then? Reduces anxiety, small class, fewer adults needed, costs less. Seems like a pretty good solution.
If virtual schooling is such a great option, then why did so many parents argue that it wasn't good during the pandemic? What do the kids that don't have stable internet do? How does a teacher keep a child engaged over a screen? How does a parent that has to work leave a child home alone? Yes---I hear you---school is not daycare, parents cannot transfer parenting responsibilities to the schools. But realistically---parents have to work and the child will be left home alone. There will be no one there to make sure that a child is receiving an education. An uneducated child becomes an uneducated adult. It kicks the can down the road. This person will require more social services in the long run.
Because it isn't a good option for all kids, obviously. We're talking about a subset of kids. The kids with extreme anxiety or dysregulation like the PP was mentioning. Other kids do well in full classrooms and don't require lot of adult intervention. But I see that it's more about convenience for the parent vs what is best for the child.
It's not always so black and white. Sure, if the child with SN is an only child in a 2 parent household with a SAHP, then virtual schooling could work. But if the choice is send your kid to school so you can work and house and feed your family, then that's what you're going to do. You're showing the bias in this thread---you take your kids needs into account first--as you should. To you, your child is more important than someone elses child with special needs. As far as your concerned, this is that parents issue and they need to deal with it.
From a parent with multiple children they need to look out for their overall family. If they stop going to work where will they live? How will they eat? Their priority is their family, not yours.
You are doing the same. Your child is more important than the other 20. But the dysregulated prone to outbursts child isn't being served well in public schools. No matter how tolerant or accepting the other children and staff may be. If that was the best place for these kids then your argument would make sense and these kids wouldn't act out so much. It's not working.
I agree with you. I pointed out earlier that specialized classes are restricted in numbers. When FAPE was introduced at the federal level, there was no funding provided for the States to implement it. School systems are doing the best they can with the resources they have while following the laws. It is not working for anyone.
It needs to be fixed so ALL children can receive a free and appropriate education.
But free and appropriate can't always mean a mainstream classroom. Virtual schooling needs to be one of the options until the maturity catches up. Parents may have to make hard choices and put career on the back burner. The government should pay them a stipend to oversee the kids education in the meantime.
Virtual schooling is an option IF the team deems, through the IEP process, that virtual education the appropriate means to meet the child’s needs.
Now you're balking. That means the parents have to agree also. Some parents don't want to deal with this. Work becomes an escape from reality and they'd rather the school do the heavy lifting even if the setting isn't appropriate.
You have a child who can do well either virtual school or homeschooling but choose to send them to public school because it is their right.
Those parents pay taxes like you.
And they actually need that break. You don't. If someone should keep their kids at home, it's you.
A school is not a medical facility. It's not an educator's job to be a therapist or provide a break for parents, nor should a school district shoulder all the financial burden of a child's mental health.
The school is a place to learn. The child throwing chairs and many other children are learning. If yours isn't, move yours to virtual.
It's extremely telling that not one parent of a chair thrower wants to do virtual. Plenty of other kids do virtual, homeschool, and do well. It's perfectly clear parents don't want to be responsible for their own kids. They can't handle their own kids yet expect schools to work magic while they hide at work avoiding the problem.
You’re right. Because virtual is not an answer for all children who have behavior issues. Virtual gets your child a calm classroom. But it does not provide the same education your child receives in person. It does not provide the peer learning, the socialization, access to school wide assemblies. As long as you are only focused on the needs of your child why shouldn’t the parents of children with SN only be focused on the needs of their children?
Exactly!
Maybe because the disruptive kids are DISRUPTING the education of the other children? A well-behaved child isn't bothering anyone so why should their needs not matter?
A well behaved 6 year old has the same right to a public school education as a misbehaving one does.
Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I have a special needs kid like this
They offered to place him in a Nonverbal autistic class because of his intense behaviors
Or a regular class with no support. My son is at grade level academically. In other to get him the 1:1 support he needs, he needs to fail out of the regular class.
Blame the administration for making this insane system.
And yes, you should press charges if they do something life threatening. The school will be forced to deal with it.
Not sure what district you are in, but FCPS has an emotional disabilities program with self-contained classes for this type of child. It's pretty hard to get into though, and also not necessarily a good place to be. But they have it.
These posts just make it clear the parents of normal kids need to advocate for them. We can be sure the parents of the chair throwers will be advocating for their kids to stay in the class room no matter how bad their behavior is. Like one of the pps said, less empathy is needed here not more.
I’ve never heard of a parent fighting for a LESS restrictive placement. Everyone wants more services, not less. The problem comes in when the schools aren’t forthcoming about the options. Because most parents have no idea what even to ask for or how to go about asking for it in an effective manner. And the schools LOVE to fight about this stuff and will absolutely hire outside counsel to not have to pay to send a kid to an outside placement for kids with behavioral difficulties. It’s extremely daunting to go up against a large school district especially when you’re pretty sure you’re not going to win and the end outcome is going to be you wasted time and $$$ only for them to place your kid right back at the neighborhood school.
Some do, particularly for more profound disabilities. But setting aside private placement, given that’s nearly impossible to get, most parents that I know with kids learning at grade level want their kids to stay in the home school. They don’t want a more restrictive placement— they want more supports in the general education classroom.
But the schools also fight that. Sometimes the schools and principals don’t want to fight for the money. And there are some, like the disgraced former MCPS principal that’s been bashing kids with disabilities in these threads, that simply don’t want to deal with these kids and try to inappropriately ship them off to self-contained programs.
In my child's case, an aide would be much much cheaper than private placement... and we know it works.
Child now has an aide and is totally fine. You don't want to know how hard it is to get there.
Of course it is hard, and it’s not because administrators don’t support teachers or don’t want to fight for funding. There is no funding!!! The request for Special ED has exploded. Most often they have to cut programs or teachers to make room for additional Special Ed. Your child does not need an accommodation, they need a whole salaried employee dedicated to them.
No they do not. They need access to a classroom for kids like them. Why is there like one of these in each district? There needs to be at least one - per school!!
Because parents, especially in wealthy districts, want their kids in mainstream classrooms with an IEP and aid.
In Boston there is uproar that Special Ed kids are being sent in Special Ed classes or school. The SJW are demanding mainstream integration.
+1. It’s even written into many IEP’s that these kids require grade level peers. That is not my child’s responsibility.
So keep yours in virtual. No one is stopping you.
My child is not violent and doesn’t disrupt class.
These are not requirements for public school attendance.
But feel free to start your own school with these requirements.
Assault is not legal. I guess I could just call the cops if my kid gets hurt by another child and sue the family.
Go right ahead!
You must think you're being a really good ally and helpful, but you're just a clown at this point.
No, you are the helpful one trying to stop other children from having access to education.
Mainstreaming these kids is actually depriving them of the therapy they need to make progress. It is the worst possible thing since it also harms the rest of the class.
Are you their therapist? Are you their teacher? Are you their pediatrician? If not shut up and focus on your kid.
My kid is under threat of violence and constant class disruptions because of terrible parenting choices by others who don’t get their kids proper therapy and just mainstream.
You "just get therapy" posters are hugely unaware of the struggle to find therapists and the time it takes for therapies to result in real change. I't not an easy and quick fix, and struggling children are entitled to FAPE just like the "normal" kids.
So it takes years of specialized therapy to make progress but a non professional like a teacher is supposed to provide these services daily, while also educating 20 other children?
FAPE does not entitle these children to a mainstream classroom. Meanwhile, all students and teachers are entitled to safety. Schools that knowingly fail to prevent physical harm get sued.
I am not sure the PP is disagreeing with you. But what are the solutions? If you don't have any, that's fine. Keep fighting by telling your school that the current situation is untenable. But if you tell them you want somebody else's child out of the school and at home, they will look at you like an idiot, which would be what your are if you think that's a good solution
In our case we bugged the principal for an aide. Parents kept holding meeting after meeting with him. I am not sure how he got it done, but he did.
While this was happening, they moved the kid to sit next to the teacher on a separate desk. And the staff and volunteer parents during recess were told to pay special attention to that kid. This helped a lot.
You're delusional if you think the teachers don't secretly agree that some kids would be better served outside the classroom. Do you think they like being abused by their students? They are often caught in the fray.
You are asking silly questions with obvious answers. Of course no one likes being abused. Duh.
What are the solutions?
Not my problem. I’m not supposed to know what other kids need remember? But i need my kid safe and i will be a squeaky wheel.
Anonymous wrote:NP---My kid was a chair thrower in elem school. He was my 2nd and Yes I knew something wasn't right by about 2. I went to the dev ped who said wait and see. The regular ped had no advice. It wasn't until the end of PreK 3 that the preschool indicated that this was so far above the norm that they would no longer work with him.
Got my kid into PEP and with a high teacher/student ratio and small classes, he did fine. So well in fact that they closed his IEP going into K. At the general K meeting for incoming students in May, I asked what the plan was.....I was told that during the first few months of K, it is all hands on deck. That does not sound like a solid plan to me. I put my kid in private and the smaller classes worked well until 2nd grade.
In 2nd grade, I moved my kid to public, met with the principal, told him what was going on and that I wanted to start the IEP process. He said we needed to wait. Not surprisingly, I got a call within the first week that we needed to start the IEP process. It took me 6 months to get his IEP back in place and that was with me providing an outside evaluation. Had I wanted to use the school psychologist, the timeline would have been longer. In retrospect, I wish I had sent my kid to public K. The IEP would have happened earlier in his school career.
All this is to say---for parents with NT children, be grateful your kid can regulate. As many others have pointed out, many of us are doing all we can to get both our kids and your kids the appropriate education. We want our kids moved to the right environment. Even when the school is working with us, there are timelines everyone has to follow. It is not good for anyone. But to come on DCUM and tell us that we are crappy parents, that our kids deserve to be beaten, that they should be regulated to virtual learning, that our kids do not deserve the same education that your child receives is wrong and infuriating. I truly hope that no one in your family ever has to manage a child with an invisible disability.
To be fair, the parent of the neurodivergent child is telling others that their child deserves to have a chair thrown in his face again and again until his parents can't handle it and divorce. Do you think other kids deserve to be attacked in school as well? They are children too, deserving of an education in a safe environment, they aren't just tools serving as peer models in the classroom.
I agree with you. No one deserves to be in an unsafe environment. Not NT kids, not teachers, not administrators, not the kid with special needs. The issue is with the way the school system handles the bureaucracy and limits the number of seats available in specialized programs. My kid has been in non public and is now in a self contained classroom. In both scenarios, there were between 6-8 kids in his class. Just from this thread alone, I would surmise that there are more than 6-8 kids per grade that need the help. In self contained classes, the class is often the grade. Looking at MCPS, there are 2 locations for HFA students--so lets say they take a total of 16 kids across the county per grade (1-5) or 80 kids in total. There are 3 Bridge MS and HS programs. So again, 24 kids per grade across the county. I'm not familiar with SESES or ESESES so I can't comment on how many kids are in those programs.
For many of these dysregulated kids, the root of the issue is anxiety. A smaller number of bodies in the room creates less chaos, less noise, enables more adult supervision. When a kid with anxiety gets overwhelmed, there is the fight or flight response. Both responses require a large amount of adult intervention. Smaller classes would benefit all kids. But smaller classes cost money.
Why isn't virtual schooling an option then? Reduces anxiety, small class, fewer adults needed, costs less. Seems like a pretty good solution.
If virtual schooling is such a great option, then why did so many parents argue that it wasn't good during the pandemic? What do the kids that don't have stable internet do? How does a teacher keep a child engaged over a screen? How does a parent that has to work leave a child home alone? Yes---I hear you---school is not daycare, parents cannot transfer parenting responsibilities to the schools. But realistically---parents have to work and the child will be left home alone. There will be no one there to make sure that a child is receiving an education. An uneducated child becomes an uneducated adult. It kicks the can down the road. This person will require more social services in the long run.
Because it isn't a good option for all kids, obviously. We're talking about a subset of kids. The kids with extreme anxiety or dysregulation like the PP was mentioning. Other kids do well in full classrooms and don't require lot of adult intervention. But I see that it's more about convenience for the parent vs what is best for the child.
It's not always so black and white. Sure, if the child with SN is an only child in a 2 parent household with a SAHP, then virtual schooling could work. But if the choice is send your kid to school so you can work and house and feed your family, then that's what you're going to do. You're showing the bias in this thread---you take your kids needs into account first--as you should. To you, your child is more important than someone elses child with special needs. As far as your concerned, this is that parents issue and they need to deal with it.
From a parent with multiple children they need to look out for their overall family. If they stop going to work where will they live? How will they eat? Their priority is their family, not yours.
You are doing the same. Your child is more important than the other 20. But the dysregulated prone to outbursts child isn't being served well in public schools. No matter how tolerant or accepting the other children and staff may be. If that was the best place for these kids then your argument would make sense and these kids wouldn't act out so much. It's not working.
I agree with you. I pointed out earlier that specialized classes are restricted in numbers. When FAPE was introduced at the federal level, there was no funding provided for the States to implement it. School systems are doing the best they can with the resources they have while following the laws. It is not working for anyone.
It needs to be fixed so ALL children can receive a free and appropriate education.
But free and appropriate can't always mean a mainstream classroom. Virtual schooling needs to be one of the options until the maturity catches up. Parents may have to make hard choices and put career on the back burner. The government should pay them a stipend to oversee the kids education in the meantime.
Virtual schooling is an option IF the team deems, through the IEP process, that virtual education the appropriate means to meet the child’s needs.
Now you're balking. That means the parents have to agree also. Some parents don't want to deal with this. Work becomes an escape from reality and they'd rather the school do the heavy lifting even if the setting isn't appropriate.
You have a child who can do well either virtual school or homeschooling but choose to send them to public school because it is their right.
Those parents pay taxes like you.
And they actually need that break. You don't. If someone should keep their kids at home, it's you.
A school is not a medical facility. It's not an educator's job to be a therapist or provide a break for parents, nor should a school district shoulder all the financial burden of a child's mental health.
The school is a place to learn. The child throwing chairs and many other children are learning. If yours isn't, move yours to virtual.
It's extremely telling that not one parent of a chair thrower wants to do virtual. Plenty of other kids do virtual, homeschool, and do well. It's perfectly clear parents don't want to be responsible for their own kids. They can't handle their own kids yet expect schools to work magic while they hide at work avoiding the problem.
You’re right. Because virtual is not an answer for all children who have behavior issues. Virtual gets your child a calm classroom. But it does not provide the same education your child receives in person. It does not provide the peer learning, the socialization, access to school wide assemblies. As long as you are only focused on the needs of your child why shouldn’t the parents of children with SN only be focused on the needs of their children?
Exactly!
Maybe because the disruptive kids are DISRUPTING the education of the other children? A well-behaved child isn't bothering anyone so why should their needs not matter?
A well behaved 6 year old has the same right to a public school education as a misbehaving one does.
Anonymous wrote:NP---My kid was a chair thrower in elem school. He was my 2nd and Yes I knew something wasn't right by about 2. I went to the dev ped who said wait and see. The regular ped had no advice. It wasn't until the end of PreK 3 that the preschool indicated that this was so far above the norm that they would no longer work with him.
Got my kid into PEP and with a high teacher/student ratio and small classes, he did fine. So well in fact that they closed his IEP going into K. At the general K meeting for incoming students in May, I asked what the plan was.....I was told that during the first few months of K, it is all hands on deck. That does not sound like a solid plan to me. I put my kid in private and the smaller classes worked well until 2nd grade.
In 2nd grade, I moved my kid to public, met with the principal, told him what was going on and that I wanted to start the IEP process. He said we needed to wait. Not surprisingly, I got a call within the first week that we needed to start the IEP process. It took me 6 months to get his IEP back in place and that was with me providing an outside evaluation. Had I wanted to use the school psychologist, the timeline would have been longer. In retrospect, I wish I had sent my kid to public K. The IEP would have happened earlier in his school career.
All this is to say---for parents with NT children, be grateful your kid can regulate. As many others have pointed out, many of us are doing all we can to get both our kids and your kids the appropriate education. We want our kids moved to the right environment. Even when the school is working with us, there are timelines everyone has to follow. It is not good for anyone. But to come on DCUM and tell us that we are crappy parents, that our kids deserve to be beaten, that they should be regulated to virtual learning, that our kids do not deserve the same education that your child receives is wrong and infuriating. I truly hope that no one in your family ever has to manage a child with an invisible disability.
To be fair, the parent of the neurodivergent child is telling others that their child deserves to have a chair thrown in his face again and again until his parents can't handle it and divorce. Do you think other kids deserve to be attacked in school as well? They are children too, deserving of an education in a safe environment, they aren't just tools serving as peer models in the classroom.
I agree with you. No one deserves to be in an unsafe environment. Not NT kids, not teachers, not administrators, not the kid with special needs. The issue is with the way the school system handles the bureaucracy and limits the number of seats available in specialized programs. My kid has been in non public and is now in a self contained classroom. In both scenarios, there were between 6-8 kids in his class. Just from this thread alone, I would surmise that there are more than 6-8 kids per grade that need the help. In self contained classes, the class is often the grade. Looking at MCPS, there are 2 locations for HFA students--so lets say they take a total of 16 kids across the county per grade (1-5) or 80 kids in total. There are 3 Bridge MS and HS programs. So again, 24 kids per grade across the county. I'm not familiar with SESES or ESESES so I can't comment on how many kids are in those programs.
For many of these dysregulated kids, the root of the issue is anxiety. A smaller number of bodies in the room creates less chaos, less noise, enables more adult supervision. When a kid with anxiety gets overwhelmed, there is the fight or flight response. Both responses require a large amount of adult intervention. Smaller classes would benefit all kids. But smaller classes cost money.
Why isn't virtual schooling an option then? Reduces anxiety, small class, fewer adults needed, costs less. Seems like a pretty good solution.
If virtual schooling is such a great option, then why did so many parents argue that it wasn't good during the pandemic? What do the kids that don't have stable internet do? How does a teacher keep a child engaged over a screen? How does a parent that has to work leave a child home alone? Yes---I hear you---school is not daycare, parents cannot transfer parenting responsibilities to the schools. But realistically---parents have to work and the child will be left home alone. There will be no one there to make sure that a child is receiving an education. An uneducated child becomes an uneducated adult. It kicks the can down the road. This person will require more social services in the long run.
Because it isn't a good option for all kids, obviously. We're talking about a subset of kids. The kids with extreme anxiety or dysregulation like the PP was mentioning. Other kids do well in full classrooms and don't require lot of adult intervention. But I see that it's more about convenience for the parent vs what is best for the child.
It's not always so black and white. Sure, if the child with SN is an only child in a 2 parent household with a SAHP, then virtual schooling could work. But if the choice is send your kid to school so you can work and house and feed your family, then that's what you're going to do. You're showing the bias in this thread---you take your kids needs into account first--as you should. To you, your child is more important than someone elses child with special needs. As far as your concerned, this is that parents issue and they need to deal with it.
From a parent with multiple children they need to look out for their overall family. If they stop going to work where will they live? How will they eat? Their priority is their family, not yours.
You are doing the same. Your child is more important than the other 20. But the dysregulated prone to outbursts child isn't being served well in public schools. No matter how tolerant or accepting the other children and staff may be. If that was the best place for these kids then your argument would make sense and these kids wouldn't act out so much. It's not working.
I agree with you. I pointed out earlier that specialized classes are restricted in numbers. When FAPE was introduced at the federal level, there was no funding provided for the States to implement it. School systems are doing the best they can with the resources they have while following the laws. It is not working for anyone.
It needs to be fixed so ALL children can receive a free and appropriate education.
But free and appropriate can't always mean a mainstream classroom. Virtual schooling needs to be one of the options until the maturity catches up. Parents may have to make hard choices and put career on the back burner. The government should pay them a stipend to oversee the kids education in the meantime.
Virtual schooling is an option IF the team deems, through the IEP process, that virtual education the appropriate means to meet the child’s needs.
Now you're balking. That means the parents have to agree also. Some parents don't want to deal with this. Work becomes an escape from reality and they'd rather the school do the heavy lifting even if the setting isn't appropriate.
You have a child who can do well either virtual school or homeschooling but choose to send them to public school because it is their right.
Those parents pay taxes like you.
And they actually need that break. You don't. If someone should keep their kids at home, it's you.
A school is not a medical facility. It's not an educator's job to be a therapist or provide a break for parents, nor should a school district shoulder all the financial burden of a child's mental health.
The school is a place to learn. The child throwing chairs and many other children are learning. If yours isn't, move yours to virtual.
It's extremely telling that not one parent of a chair thrower wants to do virtual. Plenty of other kids do virtual, homeschool, and do well. It's perfectly clear parents don't want to be responsible for their own kids. They can't handle their own kids yet expect schools to work magic while they hide at work avoiding the problem.
You’re right. Because virtual is not an answer for all children who have behavior issues. Virtual gets your child a calm classroom. But it does not provide the same education your child receives in person. It does not provide the peer learning, the socialization, access to school wide assemblies. As long as you are only focused on the needs of your child why shouldn’t the parents of children with SN only be focused on the needs of their children?
Exactly!
Maybe because the disruptive kids are DISRUPTING the education of the other children? A well-behaved child isn't bothering anyone so why should their needs not matter?
A well behaved 6 year old has the same right to a public school education as a misbehaving one does.
Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I have a special needs kid like this
They offered to place him in a Nonverbal autistic class because of his intense behaviors
Or a regular class with no support. My son is at grade level academically. In other to get him the 1:1 support he needs, he needs to fail out of the regular class.
Blame the administration for making this insane system.
And yes, you should press charges if they do something life threatening. The school will be forced to deal with it.
Not sure what district you are in, but FCPS has an emotional disabilities program with self-contained classes for this type of child. It's pretty hard to get into though, and also not necessarily a good place to be. But they have it.
These posts just make it clear the parents of normal kids need to advocate for them. We can be sure the parents of the chair throwers will be advocating for their kids to stay in the class room no matter how bad their behavior is. Like one of the pps said, less empathy is needed here not more.
I’ve never heard of a parent fighting for a LESS restrictive placement. Everyone wants more services, not less. The problem comes in when the schools aren’t forthcoming about the options. Because most parents have no idea what even to ask for or how to go about asking for it in an effective manner. And the schools LOVE to fight about this stuff and will absolutely hire outside counsel to not have to pay to send a kid to an outside placement for kids with behavioral difficulties. It’s extremely daunting to go up against a large school district especially when you’re pretty sure you’re not going to win and the end outcome is going to be you wasted time and $$$ only for them to place your kid right back at the neighborhood school.
Some do, particularly for more profound disabilities. But setting aside private placement, given that’s nearly impossible to get, most parents that I know with kids learning at grade level want their kids to stay in the home school. They don’t want a more restrictive placement— they want more supports in the general education classroom.
But the schools also fight that. Sometimes the schools and principals don’t want to fight for the money. And there are some, like the disgraced former MCPS principal that’s been bashing kids with disabilities in these threads, that simply don’t want to deal with these kids and try to inappropriately ship them off to self-contained programs.
In my child's case, an aide would be much much cheaper than private placement... and we know it works.
Child now has an aide and is totally fine. You don't want to know how hard it is to get there.
Of course it is hard, and it’s not because administrators don’t support teachers or don’t want to fight for funding. There is no funding!!! The request for Special ED has exploded. Most often they have to cut programs or teachers to make room for additional Special Ed. Your child does not need an accommodation, they need a whole salaried employee dedicated to them.
No they do not. They need access to a classroom for kids like them. Why is there like one of these in each district? There needs to be at least one - per school!!
Because parents, especially in wealthy districts, want their kids in mainstream classrooms with an IEP and aid.
In Boston there is uproar that Special Ed kids are being sent in Special Ed classes or school. The SJW are demanding mainstream integration.
+1. It’s even written into many IEP’s that these kids require grade level peers. That is not my child’s responsibility.
So keep yours in virtual. No one is stopping you.
My child is not violent and doesn’t disrupt class.
These are not requirements for public school attendance.
But feel free to start your own school with these requirements.
Assault is not legal. I guess I could just call the cops if my kid gets hurt by another child and sue the family.
Go right ahead!
You must think you're being a really good ally and helpful, but you're just a clown at this point.
No, you are the helpful one trying to stop other children from having access to education.
Mainstreaming these kids is actually depriving them of the therapy they need to make progress. It is the worst possible thing since it also harms the rest of the class.
Are you their therapist? Are you their teacher? Are you their pediatrician? If not shut up and focus on your kid.
My kid is under threat of violence and constant class disruptions because of terrible parenting choices by others who don’t get their kids proper therapy and just mainstream.
You "just get therapy" posters are hugely unaware of the struggle to find therapists and the time it takes for therapies to result in real change. I't not an easy and quick fix, and struggling children are entitled to FAPE just like the "normal" kids.
So it takes years of specialized therapy to make progress but a non professional like a teacher is supposed to provide these services daily, while also educating 20 other children?
FAPE does not entitle these children to a mainstream classroom. Meanwhile, all students and teachers are entitled to safety. Schools that knowingly fail to prevent physical harm get sued.
I am not sure the PP is disagreeing with you. But what are the solutions? If you don't have any, that's fine. Keep fighting by telling your school that the current situation is untenable. But if you tell them you want somebody else's child out of the school and at home, they will look at you like an idiot, which would be what your are if you think that's a good solution
In our case we bugged the principal for an aide. Parents kept holding meeting after meeting with him. I am not sure how he got it done, but he did.
While this was happening, they moved the kid to sit next to the teacher on a separate desk. And the staff and volunteer parents during recess were told to pay special attention to that kid. This helped a lot.
You're delusional if you think the teachers don't secretly agree that some kids would be better served outside the classroom. Do you think they like being abused by their students? They are often caught in the fray.
You are asking silly questions with obvious answers. Of course no one likes being abused. Duh.
What are the solutions?
Not my problem. I’m not supposed to know what other kids need remember? But i need my kid safe and i will be a squeaky wheel.
A squeaky wheel focuses on what their child needs. You are writing about the disruptive child being better served outside the classroom. Sounds like a silly wheel, not a squeaky one.
Let me teach you how to squeak, silly. Here, try this:" my child cannot learn in a classroom where another child is throwing things. Something needs to be done and fast. My child is already refusing to come to school and getting anxious"
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