Severance

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When Mark had that gun gonna down the elevator, I thought — well this seems unlikely to end well. I thought Drummond would grab the gun at the second Mark transitioned but I guess too bad for Drummond that Mark is a twitchy transitioner. I wonder how many goats they’ve sacrificed in the past. I guess at least some since that first goat guy said so frantically “he’s not ready!” I’d also really like confirmation as to whether the goat raisers are severed. They seem severed, in that they seem to not have a lot of perspective outside goat raising but I guess they could be permanently severed — maybe Lumon runs llle a prison program or something where they can permanently sever people.

Showrunner confirmed that the goats were a one off joke that got forced into the season 2 script due to popularity.

The also said that it's not a sci-fi show. It's a show about people. Don't try to make sense of all the details of the strange world. The world just exists to create challenges for the characters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven’t read a lot of the posts, but, agree that I feel puzzled by what decade it is meant to be set in as well as location. All desolate. Constant winter. Weird light at all times. What are we supposed to be taking away from all of that?

I've entertained the idea that the outies are all actually the first layer down in Severance world, a la The Matrix. So the real world is actually a construct, and not physical, which is why everything is slightly off, it's always winter, etc. But there are a lot of things that also contradict that idea.

I just get the impression that Mark is not a hapless victim of Lumon.

One other thing in hung up on—has there been any indication of what knowledge or information the innies vs. outties retain? I couldn’t work out that the innies believed the waterfall they saw during their outdoor adventure thingy was the biggest one in the world. They seem to possess some sort of baseline knowledge of the world-mark knew what sex was, and when we were introduced to Hellie, we didn’t see her go through some of start up programming to inform her baseline intellect. I guess I feel like I can’t reconcile that bit. Did I fall asleep at some point and miss something?

Yeah -- I've been wondering about this too.

I feel like Severance rules are a little like ghost rules - why can ghosts walk through walls but don't fall through the floor? Because otherwise you don't have much of a story, really!

But I think that the severed characters retain sort of the basic knowledge of being an adult human - they know how to go to the bathroom on their own; they know how to use a computer. But they don't have the knowledge specific to their own lives.

Though actually - SPOILERS ****



That's what was being tested at Cold Harbor, right? Whether the severed character retained any knowledge of their previous life, when put into what was essentially the most tragic and emotionally wrecking situation their outie had ever experienced (that we know of). And the answer was no - they don't remember - but also Gemma clearly had something going on that led her to trust Mark and run away with him even when she didn't remember him.

I agree that Lumon gave Gemma’s innie the worst part of her outie’s life to recreate to test the severance procedure. But how did they know her outie had had those miscarriages and had to deconstruct a crib in the first place?

Because Gemma and Mark were going to a Lumon fertility clinic, so they had all the medical records. And also probably Lumon had surveillance inside their house. We have to presume these two were being groomed for this for a long time - since they met while donating blood at that Lumon blood drive.

It's very likely they are in a town where everything is Lumon - the homes, the doctors, the university they were teaching at, etc. We don't know that part though.

I thought they met sitting next to each other at the library, when he was grading papers?

I swear I thought it was the same doctor at the fertility clinic as that weirdo making her write holiday thank you notes and playing dentist on her.

Yes it was.

[Anonymous]

To be kind to the people who can't follow the
story:

Season 1 was 3 years ago

A lot of the story is visual and not in the spoken dialogue, and the scenes are visually stuffed wth meaningful images. You need to use time in those slow scenes to study the screen and think about what you have seen. You can miss a lot of you aren't watching closely or are watching on a dim screen in the dark.
Or watch each episode twice. Or read reddit.

[Anonymous]

So many answers

Q: What does Helly mean when she says “I’m her?” Mark looks totally perplexed and yet he give up freedom for her?

A: this shows loves cryptic statement.


1.
She is Helena Eagen, a monster, not someone Mark can have a life with.

2. It's an analogy: I (iMark's Helly) am her (oMark's Gemma). She's explaining to iMark that the love he feels for Helly is the love oMark feels for Gemma, so iMark should treat Gemma that way.


Q: Did reintegration not work? Neither mark knows a thing about the other?

A: It started to work a little, and then the show dropped that plot line. You can save it a way as Mark fell into a coma / broke protocol / whatever, stalling progress.

Q: Why did Hellys dad come to talk about the speech that day and not before, right after it happened?

Jame Eagan realized that he likes Helly better than Helena, so he stopped engaging with Helena. Compare the friendly way he spoke to Helly at the Lumon party with the cold way he spoke to Helena at egg vreakfast.

Q: Why would mark leaving mean the end of all the innies?

A: Ambiguous. They are obviously in danger though. And oMark might make it the end of iMark.

Q: How does it work when you want to quit? How do you know not to show up at work the next day?

A: Explained in this thread and when Helly, Burt, and Dylan leave (or try to). Notes/video are passed through Lumon staff.

[Anonymous]

If innies seem to have free access to the exit door /stairs (Helly in S1, Irving and then Gemma in S2), why didn't they use that to exfiltrate info, avoiding the code detector in the elevator?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many questions.

What does Helly mean when she says “I’m her?” Mark looks totally perplexed and yet he give up freedom for her?

Did reintegration not work? Neither mark knows a thing about the other?

Why did Hellys dad come to talk about the speech that day and not before, right after it happened?

Why would mark leaving mean the end of all the innies?

How does it work when you want to quit? How do you know not to show up at work the next day?

It wouldn't. His sister and Harmony are talking about taking down Lumon. That is what he says would mean the end of all innies. Because it would. The innies don't exist without Lumon.

Not necessarily. The technology controls severance. Lumon can be taken down but the technology can be operated by anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, I feel like a rich plot twist would be if Helly R gets pregnant with Mark’s baby. That would be a real doozy to work out. Maybe that’s how mark and Gemma bring a baby into their lives in an unconventional way eventually.

Why would Helly's baby become Gemma's?

A throuple?

[Anonymous]

So, looking forward, how could a severed person have a good life? Like conjoined twins, but temporally instead of a atomically.

Would they alternate days in separate lives like a kid of divorced parents?
Share a life like in the Prestige? Pressure each other so that oA and iA commit to the same hobbies and lovers?

[Anonymous]

The show does a great job with chaos banger finales.

Doesn't do a great job of completing an arc.

[Anonymous]

Did anyone else avoid this show for years, thinking it was a boring business show like Succession?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven’t read a lot of the posts, but, agree that I feel puzzled by what decade it is meant to be set in as well as location. All desolate. Constant winter. Weird light at all times. What are we supposed to be taking away from all of that?

I've entertained the idea that the outies are all actually the first layer down in Severance world, a la The Matrix. So the real world is actually a construct, and not physical, which is why everything is slightly off, it's always winter, etc. But there are a lot of things that also contradict that idea.

I just get the impression that Mark is not a hapless victim of Lumon.

One other thing in hung up on—has there been any indication of what knowledge or information the innies vs. outties retain? I couldn’t work out that the innies believed the waterfall they saw during their outdoor adventure thingy was the biggest one in the world. They seem to possess some sort of baseline knowledge of the world-mark knew what sex was, and when we were introduced to Hellie, we didn’t see her go through some of start up programming to inform her baseline intellect. I guess I feel like I can’t reconcile that bit. Did I fall asleep at some point and miss something?

Yeah -- I've been wondering about this too.

I feel like Severance rules are a little like ghost rules - why can ghosts walk through walls but don't fall through the floor? Because otherwise you don't have much of a story, really!

But I think that the severed characters retain sort of the basic knowledge of being an adult human - they know how to go to the bathroom on their own; they know how to use a computer. But they don't have the knowledge specific to their own lives.

Though actually - SPOILERS ****



That's what was being tested at Cold Harbor, right? Whether the severed character retained any knowledge of their previous life, when put into what was essentially the most tragic and emotionally wrecking situation their outie had ever experienced (that we know of). And the answer was no - they don't remember - but also Gemma clearly had something going on that led her to trust Mark and run away with him even when she didn't remember him.

I agree that Lumon gave Gemma’s innie the worst part of her outie’s life to recreate to test the severance procedure. But how did they know her outie had had those miscarriages and had to deconstruct a crib in the first place?

Because Gemma and Mark were going to a Lumon fertility clinic, so they had all the medical records. And also probably Lumon had surveillance inside their house. We have to presume these two were being groomed for this for a long time - since they met while donating blood at that Lumon blood drive.

It's very likely they are in a town where everything is Lumon - the homes, the doctors, the university they were teaching at, etc. We don't know that part though.

I thought they met sitting next to each other at the library, when he was grading papers?

I swear I thought it was the same doctor at the fertility clinic as that weirdo making her write holiday thank you notes and playing dentist on her.

It was. And, btw, the actor is Robby Benson, '70s heartthrob in a totally adorkable way. Kudos to him for having the range to play this part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The show does a great job with chaos banger finales.

Doesn't do a great job of completing an arc.

I love this show, but that's a fair criticism.

You can see Severance as a puzzle box and/or allegory about belief and/or story about love and integrity. But it is not perfect. For a show with similar themes that plays them out exquisitely, see "The Americans" (though there's way more violence -- and sex -- and no goats).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did anyone else avoid this show for years, thinking it was a boring business show like Succession?

I avoided it when it first came out because I read a review that called it the weirdest thing on TV right now, and decided that it wasn’t for me - I hate sci-fi. Then enough people in real life told me to check it out and I did.

I was also late to Succession, coincidentally, but watched the whole thing starting around when the second season was airing and very much enjoyed it - although I do think it’s overrated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if Milchik as drum major could be alluding to Martin Luther King Jr.'s "Drum Major Instinct" sermon.

https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/drum-major-instinct

Wow. I don’t know if the show writers are that deep, but what a great observation and it is so on point for Milchek. He so desperately wants to be out front, to be the one leading, to be recognized and seen for his many talents and skills. And his Lumon bosses are trying to drill humble servitude into him. It’s like a perverse flip on the biblical story. Is Milchek a race traitor for serving Lumpn? Or is that too harsh on him….Milchek is the most complicated person o the show.

[Anonymous]

PP with all the questions here. I forgot one:

How did Helly know the final numbers were happy? Are all the MDRers working on Gemma? And what about all the other refiners in other offices? If all their people died, wouldn't people on the outside have noticed?