Severance

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven’t read a lot of the posts, but, agree that I feel puzzled by what decade it is meant to be set in as well as location. All desolate. Constant winter. Weird light at all times. What are we supposed to be taking away from all of that?

I've entertained the idea that the outies are all actually the first layer down in Severance world, a la The Matrix. So the real world is actually a construct, and not physical, which is why everything is slightly off, it's always winter, etc. But there are a lot of things that also contradict that idea.

I just get the impression that Mark is not a hapless victim of Lumon.

One other thing in hung up on—has there been any indication of what knowledge or information the innies vs. outties retain? I couldn’t work out that the innies believed the waterfall they saw during their outdoor adventure thingy was the biggest one in the world. They seem to possess some sort of baseline knowledge of the world-mark knew what sex was, and when we were introduced to Hellie, we didn’t see her go through some of start up programming to inform her baseline intellect. I guess I feel like I can’t reconcile that bit. Did I fall asleep at some point and miss something?

Yeah -- I've been wondering about this too.

I feel like Severance rules are a little like ghost rules - why can ghosts walk through walls but don't fall through the floor? Because otherwise you don't have much of a story, really!

But I think that the severed characters retain sort of the basic knowledge of being an adult human - they know how to go to the bathroom on their own; they know how to use a computer. But they don't have the knowledge specific to their own lives.

Though actually - SPOILERS ****



That's what was being tested at Cold Harbor, right? Whether the severed character retained any knowledge of their previous life, when put into what was essentially the most tragic and emotionally wrecking situation their outie had ever experienced (that we know of). And the answer was no - they don't remember - but also Gemma clearly had something going on that led her to trust Mark and run away with him even when she didn't remember him.

I agree that Lumon gave Gemma’s innie the worst part of her outie’s life to recreate to test the severance procedure. But how did they know her outie had had those miscarriages and had to deconstruct a crib in the first place?

Because Gemma and Mark were going to a Lumon fertility clinic, so they had all the medical records. And also probably Lumon had surveillance inside their house. We have to presume these two were being groomed for this for a long time - since they met while donating blood at that Lumon blood drive.

It's very likely they are in a town where everything is Lumon - the homes, the doctors, the university they were teaching at, etc. We don't know that part though.

I thought they met sitting next to each other at the library, when he was grading papers?

I swear I thought it was the same doctor at the fertility clinic as that weirdo making her write holiday thank you notes and playing dentist on her.

Yes it was.

Oh good catch! This is what I get for flooding laundry while I watch—missed that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP with all the questions here. I forgot one:

How did Helly know the final numbers were happy? Are all the MDRers working on Gemma? And what about all the other refiners in other offices? If all their people died, wouldn't people on the outside have noticed?

My understanding was that only Mark was doing real work. The rest were there to basically create the artifice of a work culture. Remember when they had to bring in new fake coworkers? It was clear that it was all about keeping Mark on track. And my understanding of why all the innies would “die” is that once Mark completes the 25th file, he is done with the experiment. I think the plan was just to fire Mark and the other innies in MDR at least, which means their outies would continue to live but the innies would be effectively dead like Irving.
It’s not really clear to me what the other innies do….the archivists for instance or the big marching band—were they just support for Mark as well?

I think the Helly “I’m her” statement was confusing, but I took it to me that they could never have a real life together because Helena E would never allow it—in the most literal, physical sense, they are the same person and now that the experiment is over, Helena E will not return to the severed floor. So he should go have his life with Gemma—she knows she will be “dead” soon this is the only chance for either Mark to have happiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The show does a great job with chaos banger finales.

Doesn't do a great job of completing an arc.

I love this show, but that's a fair criticism.

You can see Severance as a puzzle box and/or allegory about belief and/or story about love and integrity. But it is not perfect. For a show with similar themes that plays them out exquisitely, see "The Americans" (though there's way more violence -- and sex -- and no goats).

Nobody wants sex without goats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP with all the questions here. I forgot one:

How did Helly know the final numbers were happy? Are all the MDRers working on Gemma? And what about all the other refiners in other offices? If all their people died, wouldn't people on the outside have noticed?

My understanding was that only Mark was doing real work. The rest were there to basically create the artifice of a work culture. Remember when they had to bring in new fake coworkers? It was clear that it was all about keeping Mark on track. And my understanding of why all the innies would “die” is that once Mark completes the 25th file, he is done with the experiment. I think the plan was just to fire Mark and the other innies in MDR at least, which means their outies would continue to live but the innies would be effectively dead like Irving.
It’s not really clear to me what the other innies do….the archivists for instance or the big marching band—were they just support for Mark as well?

I think the Helly “I’m her” statement was confusing, but I took it to me that they could never have a real life together because Helena E would never allow it—in the most literal, physical sense, they are the same person and now that the experiment is over, Helena E will not return to the severed floor. So he should go have his life with Gemma—she knows she will be “dead” soon this is the only chance for either Mark to have happiness.

This is a fine theory, but I think the real answer is that it doesn't matter for the story so there is no answer. Does Dylan's story still make sense if his job is a fake job to motivate Mark? Would that change his story? I think digging too much into the weeds of Lumon strains or breaks the story. You can't have hard sci-fi and a thriller and multiple chapter studies and a corporate satire and have it all fit together and make sense. The tree has to bend and twist to fit in all those fruits. It's best to appreciate all the parts without trying to force them into a whole, or enjoy weaving them together with your own creativity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP with all the questions here. I forgot one:

How did Helly know the final numbers were happy? Are all the MDRers working on Gemma? And what about all the other refiners in other offices? If all their people died, wouldn't people on the outside have noticed?

What wouldn't she know?

When she first arrived at work, you saw Dylan training her.

Yes, Mark seems to have some sort of gifted intuition for MDR or for Gemma's numbers. But all the characters can feel the numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP with all the questions here. I forgot one:

How did Helly know the final numbers were happy? Are all the MDRers working on Gemma? And what about all the other refiners in other offices? If all their people died, wouldn't people on the outside have noticed?

My understanding was that only Mark was doing real work. The rest were there to basically create the artifice of a work culture. Remember when they had to bring in new fake coworkers? It was clear that it was all about keeping Mark on track. And my understanding of why all the innies would “die” is that once Mark completes the 25th file, he is done with the experiment. I think the plan was just to fire Mark and the other innies in MDR at least, which means their outies would continue to live but the innies would be effectively dead like Irving.
It’s not really clear to me what the other innies do….the archivists for instance or the big marching band—were they just support for Mark as well?

I think the Helly “I’m her” statement was confusing, but I took it to me that they could never have a real life together because Helena E would never allow it—in the most literal, physical sense, they are the same person and now that the experiment is over, Helena E will not return to the severed floor. So he should go have his life with Gemma—she knows she will be “dead” soon this is the only chance for either Mark to have happiness.

I thought they were all doing real work, but Mark was just better at it because of his relationship with Gemma.

I was also not under the impression that this MDR team was the only one, but the most successful one. Although I don't have anything concrete to base that on - just that everything seemed systematic and developed that it would surprise me if this was a one off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven’t read a lot of the posts, but, agree that I feel puzzled by what decade it is meant to be set in as well as location. All desolate. Constant winter. Weird light at all times. What are we supposed to be taking away from all of that?

I've entertained the idea that the outies are all actually the first layer down in Severance world, a la The Matrix. So the real world is actually a construct, and not physical, which is why everything is slightly off, it's always winter, etc. But there are a lot of things that also contradict that idea.

I just get the impression that Mark is not a hapless victim of Lumon.

One other thing in hung up on—has there been any indication of what knowledge or information the innies vs. outties retain? I couldn’t work out that the innies believed the waterfall they saw during their outdoor adventure thingy was the biggest one in the world. They seem to possess some sort of baseline knowledge of the world-mark knew what sex was, and when we were introduced to Hellie, we didn’t see her go through some of start up programming to inform her baseline intellect. I guess I feel like I can’t reconcile that bit. Did I fall asleep at some point and miss something?

Yeah -- I've been wondering about this too.

I feel like Severance rules are a little like ghost rules - why can ghosts walk through walls but don't fall through the floor? Because otherwise you don't have much of a story, really!

But I think that the severed characters retain sort of the basic knowledge of being an adult human - they know how to go to the bathroom on their own; they know how to use a computer. But they don't have the knowledge specific to their own lives.

Though actually - SPOILERS ****



That's what was being tested at Cold Harbor, right? Whether the severed character retained any knowledge of their previous life, when put into what was essentially the most tragic and emotionally wrecking situation their outie had ever experienced (that we know of). And the answer was no - they don't remember - but also Gemma clearly had something going on that led her to trust Mark and run away with him even when she didn't remember him.

I agree that Lumon gave Gemma’s innie the worst part of her outie’s life to recreate to test the severance procedure. But how did they know her outie had had those miscarriages and had to deconstruct a crib in the first place?

Because Gemma and Mark were going to a Lumon fertility clinic, so they had all the medical records. And also probably Lumon had surveillance inside their house. We have to presume these two were being groomed for this for a long time - since they met while donating blood at that Lumon blood drive.

It's very likely they are in a town where everything is Lumon - the homes, the doctors, the university they were teaching at, etc. We don't know that part though.

I thought they met sitting next to each other at the library, when he was grading papers?

I swear I thought it was the same doctor at the fertility clinic as that weirdo making her write holiday thank you notes and playing dentist on her.

It 100% is.
https://screenrant.com/severance-season-2-doctor-mauer-lumon-explained/

People! “That weirdo” is Robby Benson! Ice Castles? Anyone?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP with all the questions here. I forgot one:

How did Helly know the final numbers were happy? Are all the MDRers working on Gemma? And what about all the other refiners in other offices? If all their people died, wouldn't people on the outside have noticed?

My understanding was that only Mark was doing real work. The rest were there to basically create the artifice of a work culture. Remember when they had to bring in new fake coworkers? It was clear that it was all about keeping Mark on track. And my understanding of why all the innies would “die” is that once Mark completes the 25th file, he is done with the experiment. I think the plan was just to fire Mark and the other innies in MDR at least, which means their outies would continue to live but the innies would be effectively dead like Irving.
It’s not really clear to me what the other innies do….the archivists for instance or the big marching band—were they just support for Mark as well?

I think the Helly “I’m her” statement was confusing, but I took it to me that they could never have a real life together because Helena E would never allow it—in the most literal, physical sense, they are the same person and now that the experiment is over, Helena E will not return to the severed floor. So he should go have his life with Gemma—she knows she will be “dead” soon this is the only chance for either Mark to have happiness.

I thought they were all doing real work, but Mark was just better at it because of his relationship with Gemma.

I was also not under the impression that this MDR team was the only one, but the most successful one. Although I don't have anything concrete to base that on - just that everything seemed systematic and developed that it would surprise me if this was a one off.

That’s should have been was NOT the only one…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP with all the questions here. I forgot one:

How did Helly know the final numbers were happy? Are all the MDRers working on Gemma? And what about all the other refiners in other offices? If all their people died, wouldn't people on the outside have noticed?

My understanding was that only Mark was doing real work. The rest were there to basically create the artifice of a work culture. Remember when they had to bring in new fake coworkers? It was clear that it was all about keeping Mark on track. And my understanding of why all the innies would “die” is that once Mark completes the 25th file, he is done with the experiment. I think the plan was just to fire Mark and the other innies in MDR at least, which means their outies would continue to live but the innies would be effectively dead like Irving.
It’s not really clear to me what the other innies do….the archivists for instance or the big marching band—were they just support for Mark as well?

I think the Helly “I’m her” statement was confusing, but I took it to me that they could never have a real life together because Helena E would never allow it—in the most literal, physical sense, they are the same person and now that the experiment is over, Helena E will not return to the severed floor. So he should go have his life with Gemma—she knows she will be “dead” soon this is the only chance for either Mark to have happiness.

I thought they were all doing real work, but Mark was just better at it because of his relationship with Gemma.

I was also not under the impression that this MDR team was not the only one, but the most successful one. Although I don't have anything concrete to base that on - just that everything seemed systematic and developed that it would surprise me if this was a one off.

I had also assumed that there were other rooms full of other macro data refiners until the last few episodes which made it seem like they were the only ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP with all the questions here. I forgot one:

How did Helly know the final numbers were happy? Are all the MDRers working on Gemma? And what about all the other refiners in other offices? If all their people died, wouldn't people on the outside have noticed?

My understanding was that only Mark was doing real work. The rest were there to basically create the artifice of a work culture. Remember when they had to bring in new fake coworkers? It was clear that it was all about keeping Mark on track. And my understanding of why all the innies would “die” is that once Mark completes the 25th file, he is done with the experiment. I think the plan was just to fire Mark and the other innies in MDR at least, which means their outies would continue to live but the innies would be effectively dead like Irving.
It’s not really clear to me what the other innies do….the archivists for instance or the big marching band—were they just support for Mark as well?

I think the Helly “I’m her” statement was confusing, but I took it to me that they could never have a real life together because Helena E would never allow it—in the most literal, physical sense, they are the same person and now that the experiment is over, Helena E will not return to the severed floor. So he should go have his life with Gemma—she knows she will be “dead” soon this is the only chance for either Mark to have happiness.

This is a fine theory, but I think the real answer is that it doesn't matter for the story so there is no answer. Does Dylan's story still make sense if his job is a fake job to motivate Mark? Would that change his story? I think digging too much into the weeds of Lumon strains or breaks the story. You can't have hard sci-fi and a thriller and multiple chapter studies and a corporate satire and have it all fit together and make sense. The tree has to bend and twist to fit in all those fruits. It's best to appreciate all the parts without trying to force them into a whole, or enjoy weaving them together with your own creativity

Well that's lazy writing. We live in Taylor Swift's world, where Easter eggs are abundant and meaningful. Where foreshadowing and callbacks are intentional. Everything is thoughtful. Even it takes years!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, I feel like a rich plot twist would be if Helly R gets pregnant with Mark’s baby. That would be a real doozy to work out. Maybe that’s how mark and Gemma bring a baby into their lives in an unconventional way eventually.

I saw a clip on insta from s1, mark watching a news story and it’s Natalie defending severance procedure after an outie turns up pregnant. So it’s not the first time that would have happened!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, looking forward, how could a severed person have a good life? Like conjoined twins, but temporally instead of a atomically.

Would they alternate days in separate lives like a kid of divorced parents?
Share a life like in the Prestige? Pressure each other so that oA and iA commit to the same hobbies and lovers?

Do you believe outie mark when he said they’d live together? Innie mark didn’t. I’m not sure I would either. Idk what would happen with integration, but his point was there - outie mark is like 40, innie is 2, the majority of the combined character, if there is one, would be outie mark. Without integration none of the outies would have any need for their innie and would probably just… never “let them out”, if they could control it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP with all the questions here. I forgot one:

How did Helly know the final numbers were happy? Are all the MDRers working on Gemma? And what about all the other refiners in other offices? If all their people died, wouldn't people on the outside have noticed?

I didn’t think everyone was working on Gemma, only because mark says *i* completed 24 or 25 files - which was all of them.
But.
Gemma was likely at Lumon for a lot longer than mark, so maybe they were working on it prior to him starting and just not really getting anywhere?
Idk how she knew it was happy, so none of this answers your question lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP with all the questions here. I forgot one:

How did Helly know the final numbers were happy? Are all the MDRers working on Gemma? And what about all the other refiners in other offices? If all their people died, wouldn't people on the outside have noticed?

My understanding was that only Mark was doing real work. The rest were there to basically create the artifice of a work culture. Remember when they had to bring in new fake coworkers? It was clear that it was all about keeping Mark on track. And my understanding of why all the innies would “die” is that once Mark completes the 25th file, he is done with the experiment. I think the plan was just to fire Mark and the other innies in MDR at least, which means their outies would continue to live but the innies would be effectively dead like Irving.
It’s not really clear to me what the other innies do….the archivists for instance or the big marching band—were they just support for Mark as well?

I think the Helly “I’m her” statement was confusing, but I took it to me that they could never have a real life together because Helena E would never allow it—in the most literal, physical sense, they are the same person and now that the experiment is over, Helena E will not return to the severed floor. So he should go have his life with Gemma—she knows she will be “dead” soon this is the only chance for either Mark to have happiness.

I thought they were all doing real work, but Mark was just better at it because of his relationship with Gemma.

I was also not under the impression that this MDR team was not the only one, but the most successful one. Although I don't have anything concrete to base that on - just that everything seemed systematic and developed that it would surprise me if this was a one off.

I had also assumed that there were other rooms full of other macro data refiners until the last few episodes which made it seem like they were the only ones.

I think there are other MDR units at other sites, like how the three new people at the beginning of the season had been transferred from somewhere.

[Anonymous]

I could barely get through the first episode. Sounds like it gets better?