DW loses temper with people and I am embarrassed

[Anonymous]

You need to advocate more, faster.

[Anonymous]

She sounds like a pain (especially the daycare example) and I can only imagine how she treats people when she’s out and about (Starbucks baristas, grocery baggers, etc.).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re a guy, right, OP?

Sometimes women have to be aggressive to be taken seriously and get what they want. Frustrating, but true.

This.

If she was yelling or screaming, that would be out of bounds.

But women get taken advantage of, especially with contractors, when they're nice and sweet. We have to be aggressive and firm to be taken seriously.

True.

Firm is one thing, but don’t please don’t confuse condescending and aggressive with assertive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you are right, and not a doormat. Your wife is like all the pp's in this thread. She's self important and bitchy.

And yes, if it was a man behaving like OPs wife, I wouldn't put up with it. Obviously, if women have to go to such extremes to get things done, she's doing it wrong.

This. There’s being clear, confident and assertive, and then there’s what OP’s wife is doing which is behaving ungraciously towards service providers. Ugh. Good luck, OP. If this is a behavior change for DW, it could be a medical issue. Also, has she started a new diet? Sometimes people have behavioral changes when they aren’t getting the right nutrients.

You clearly did not read the OP. And your last sentence is just a BS assertion. I suspect you are the same poster who posts complete nonsense about nutrition in various forums.

Woah, PP, that combative tone isn’t necessary, is it? What OP described, from my perspective, was aggressive behavior (kinda like your tone) instead of assertive behavior. The point of the post was that he needs to think about whether she’s always been this way or it’s a new behavior. As for the query about diet changes, here you go:
https://www.mentalhealthfirstaid.org/external/2018/03/relationship-food-mood/
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/nutritional-psychiatry-your-brain-on-food-201511168626#:~:text=Multiple%20studies%20have%20found%20a,It%20makes%20sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re a guy, right, OP?

Sometimes women have to be aggressive to be taken seriously and get what they want. Frustrating, but true.

This.

If she was yelling or screaming, that would be out of bounds.

But women get taken advantage of, especially with contractors, when they're nice and sweet. We have to be aggressive and firm to be taken seriously.

I have to disagree with this. It may be true sometimes, but kindness and respect have always worked for me. When I was having extensive electrical upgrades done on my house, I treated my electrician and his crew really well and was treated well in return. Small example: I offered coffee when they arrived, had soft drinks available in an extra fridge for them, and offered them a plate of food when the work ran long and they stayed into the dinner hour. They bent over backwards please me. If I decided on an extra outlet or whatever, they did it without charge. When they had to empty my pantry to install some recessed lights, they organized all my food when they put it back. Tidy rows of beans, pasta, and everything all sorted and lined up.

So you played the good little woman role..

FYI they contractor didn't just show up and OP's wife was rude. He canceled their appointment and then had no idea of the job he was supposed to perform, he was unprofessional OP's wife called him out on this.

Nope. I just treat people well. Are you playing a role whenever you do that?

[Anonymous]

So how many strikes were you going to give the contractor before you talked to his boss, negotiated a fee break, or canned him?

You set a precedent every time someone doesn’t do their end of the bargain and you gloss over it/avoid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re a guy, right, OP?

Sometimes women have to be aggressive to be taken seriously and get what they want. Frustrating, but true.

This.

If she was yelling or screaming, that would be out of bounds.

But women get taken advantage of, especially with contractors, when they're nice and sweet. We have to be aggressive and firm to be taken seriously.

OP here. I agree with this. But she was not the one dealing with the contractor. Why does she intervene in what I am doing? Does she think I am inept?

As another example, daycare, where we have happily been sending our children from infancy through pre-k, emailed about a form that we completed but they lost and wanted us to complete again. I replied first and said OK we would complete it again. I thought that was sufficient. DW replied next and gave the date we completed it and asked why they lost it. I thought the email was snippy. The director replied back and apologized but said they can't find it. Rather than leave it alone, DW replied again and said we would complete the form but expressed displeasure at the form being lost. The form takes two minutes to complete and the center is dealing with how to navigate COVID, so I can understand they may have misplaced a form. So was it necessary to give them a hard time about it? And was it necessary to get involved after my email saying we'll take care of it?

She sounds really rude, I’m sorry. I can’t believe people are saying women need to be that way bc they don’t get taken seriously otherwise? BS!! Human decency people. Unbelievable.

OP, I would tell her she was being rude. My DH has lost his temper with contractors (he was being unreasonable) and I called him on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP — talk to her. Tell her how you feel. See how she feels. Drop the idea that you’re right or she’s right. It doesn’t matter and neither of you is objectively right. You two just need to come to an agreement that you both can live with. Ask her to step back if you’re already dealing with something. Be prepared that she might ask you to be more assertive. You each get to have concerns that the other person should try to meet. It won’t go just one way (i.e. that she has to take a step back but you don’t have to make any changes).

NP, and I agree with this, particularly the bolded. I'd also push you to make sure that if something is agreed upon as "yours" to deal with, you make sure that it is completely off of her plate. You take ownership and responsibility for a task end-to-end. I know a lot of times I (woman) have done a bunch of "invisible work" that was stressful, and then something (even something minor) goes off plan and it just puts me over the edge because I've thought of 50 other details leading up to it and now there's THIS.

Also, as others have said - depression, general COVID stress, etc.

In the daycare example, OP responded and completed the form as promised. He took it completely off her plate. She decided to escalate with two additional emails over a lost form (like expressing displeasure was suddenly going to make them find the form?). I find this example much more egregious than the contractor example, which is a gray area. But I think the biggest issue here is that she undermines you. I wouldn’t be able to handle that, and I’m a woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re a guy, right, OP?

Sometimes women have to be aggressive to be taken seriously and get what they want. Frustrating, but true.

This.

If she was yelling or screaming, that would be out of bounds.

But women get taken advantage of, especially with contractors, when they're nice and sweet. We have to be aggressive and firm to be taken seriously.

I have to disagree with this. It may be true sometimes, but kindness and respect have always worked for me. When I was having extensive electrical upgrades done on my house, I treated my electrician and his crew really well and was treated well in return. Small example: I offered coffee when they arrived, had soft drinks available in an extra fridge for them, and offered them a plate of food when the work ran long and they stayed into the dinner hour. They bent over backwards please me. If I decided on an extra outlet or whatever, they did it without charge. When they had to empty my pantry to install some recessed lights, they organized all my food when they put it back. Tidy rows of beans, pasta, and everything all sorted and lined up.

So you played the good little woman role..

FYI they contractor didn't just show up and OP's wife was rude. He canceled their appointment and then had no idea of the job he was supposed to perform, he was unprofessional OP's wife called him out on this.

Nope. I just treat people well. Are you playing a role whenever you do that?

I treat people well too. I also expect them to do their jobs as professionals. I've manged to get along just fine in the world, no cookie baking needed,except for Santa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP — talk to her. Tell her how you feel. See how she feels. Drop the idea that you’re right or she’s right. It doesn’t matter and neither of you is objectively right. You two just need to come to an agreement that you both can live with. Ask her to step back if you’re already dealing with something. Be prepared that she might ask you to be more assertive. You each get to have concerns that the other person should try to meet. It won’t go just one way (i.e. that she has to take a step back but you don’t have to make any changes).

NP, and I agree with this, particularly the bolded. I'd also push you to make sure that if something is agreed upon as "yours" to deal with, you make sure that it is completely off of her plate. You take ownership and responsibility for a task end-to-end. I know a lot of times I (woman) have done a bunch of "invisible work" that was stressful, and then something (even something minor) goes off plan and it just puts me over the edge because I've thought of 50 other details leading up to it and now there's THIS.

Also, as others have said - depression, general COVID stress, etc.

In the daycare example, OP responded and completed the form as promised. He took it completely off her plate. She decided to escalate with two additional emails over a lost form (like expressing displeasure was suddenly going to make them find the form?). I find this example much more egregious than the contractor example, which is a gray area. But I think the biggest issue here is that she undermines you. I wouldn’t be able to handle that, and I’m a woman.

You'd probably just bake them cookies. OP thinks he handled it, but likely what has happened before is the wife has to clean up after him . Daycare losing a form is not okay, and I say that as someone who worked in and ran a daycare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP — talk to her. Tell her how you feel. See how she feels. Drop the idea that you’re right or she’s right. It doesn’t matter and neither of you is objectively right. You two just need to come to an agreement that you both can live with. Ask her to step back if you’re already dealing with something. Be prepared that she might ask you to be more assertive. You each get to have concerns that the other person should try to meet. It won’t go just one way (i.e. that she has to take a step back but you don’t have to make any changes).

NP, and I agree with this, particularly the bolded. I'd also push you to make sure that if something is agreed upon as "yours" to deal with, you make sure that it is completely off of her plate. You take ownership and responsibility for a task end-to-end. I know a lot of times I (woman) have done a bunch of "invisible work" that was stressful, and then something (even something minor) goes off plan and it just puts me over the edge because I've thought of 50 other details leading up to it and now there's THIS.

Also, as others have said - depression, general COVID stress, etc.

In the daycare example, OP responded and completed the form as promised. He took it completely off her plate. She decided to escalate with two additional emails over a lost form (like expressing displeasure was suddenly going to make them find the form?). I find this example much more egregious than the contractor example, which is a gray area. But I think the biggest issue here is that she undermines you. I wouldn’t be able to handle that, and I’m a woman.

You'd probably just bake them cookies. OP thinks he handled it, but likely what has happened before is the wife has to clean up after him . Daycare losing a form is not okay, and I say that as someone who worked in and ran a daycare.

You never once made a mistake when you worked in and ran a daycare? That’s wonderful for you but stuff happens. We all deal with all kinds of administrative bs all the time. I don’t let small things get to me.

Did the way OP’s wife stepped in to “handle it” make the daycare find the form? Nope. She was no more effective. There was no winning in that scenario so why not just suck it up and redo the form rather than berate some surely low-paid daycare worker?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re a guy, right, OP?

Sometimes women have to be aggressive to be taken seriously and get what they want. Frustrating, but true.

This.

If she was yelling or screaming, that would be out of bounds.

But women get taken advantage of, especially with contractors, when they're nice and sweet. We have to be aggressive and firm to be taken seriously.

True.

Firm is one thing, but don’t please don’t confuse condescending and aggressive with assertive.

Aggressive, assertive. I have come to doubt the reliability of OP’s descriptions.

Mansplaining.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re a guy, right, OP?

Sometimes women have to be aggressive to be taken seriously and get what they want. Frustrating, but true.

This.

If she was yelling or screaming, that would be out of bounds.

But women get taken advantage of, especially with contractors, when they're nice and sweet. We have to be aggressive and firm to be taken seriously.

True.

Firm is one thing, but don’t please don’t confuse condescending and aggressive with assertive.

Aggressive, assertive. I have come to doubt the reliability of OP’s descriptions.

Mansplaining.

+!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP — talk to her. Tell her how you feel. See how she feels. Drop the idea that you’re right or she’s right. It doesn’t matter and neither of you is objectively right. You two just need to come to an agreement that you both can live with. Ask her to step back if you’re already dealing with something. Be prepared that she might ask you to be more assertive. You each get to have concerns that the other person should try to meet. It won’t go just one way (i.e. that she has to take a step back but you don’t have to make any changes).

NP, and I agree with this, particularly the bolded. I'd also push you to make sure that if something is agreed upon as "yours" to deal with, you make sure that it is completely off of her plate. You take ownership and responsibility for a task end-to-end. I know a lot of times I (woman) have done a bunch of "invisible work" that was stressful, and then something (even something minor) goes off plan and it just puts me over the edge because I've thought of 50 other details leading up to it and now there's THIS.

Also, as others have said - depression, general COVID stress, etc.

In the daycare example, OP responded and completed the form as promised. He took it completely off her plate. She decided to escalate with two additional emails over a lost form (like expressing displeasure was suddenly going to make them find the form?). I find this example much more egregious than the contractor example, which is a gray area. But I think the biggest issue here is that she undermines you. I wouldn’t be able to handle that, and I’m a woman.

You'd probably just bake them cookies. OP thinks he handled it, but likely what has happened before is the wife has to clean up after him . Daycare losing a form is not okay, and I say that as someone who worked in and ran a daycare.

You never once made a mistake when you worked in and ran a daycare? That’s wonderful for you but stuff happens. We all deal with all kinds of administrative bs all the time. I don’t let small things get to me.

Did the way OP’s wife stepped in to “handle it” make the daycare find the form? Nope. She was no more effective. There was no winning in that scenario so why not just suck it up and redo the form rather than berate some surely low-paid daycare worker?

Not when it came to essential paperwork. If I knew my staff was losing essential paperwork, they would hear from me. That's a huge red flag in my opinion. It saddens me the low standards many of you have for your child care centers. If OP's description was accurate, she did not berate anyone, she set an expectation.. Ask yourself why does a woman setting a firm expectation and boundary upset you so much?

[Anonymous]

Op is probably accident prone and the absent minded professor type. He’s probably normalized tons of mistakes a day by now.