Elite universities, Ivy Plus/Equivalents...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DC did not apply to any Ivies, though encouraged to do so by the college counselor. The reasoning was that she didn’t want to be pre-judged by where she went to school. People have associations in their minds as well as stereotypes of elitists. Haaaahvahd in a snooty accent is what people think. The connections could help within that elitist group, but that’s not where she wants to be. The constant competition and need to prove one’s self at Ivies seems toxic.

Said with all the insight of someone on the outside looking in. The atmosphere at most Ivies is far less competitive than at some of the other schools mentioned in this thread.

In any event, being encouraged to apply to an Ivy and getting into one are two different things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC did not apply to any Ivies, though encouraged to do so by the college counselor. The reasoning was that she didn’t want to be pre-judged by where she went to school. People have associations in their minds as well as stereotypes of elitists. Haaaahvahd in a snooty accent is what people think. The connections could help within that elitist group, but that’s not where she wants to be. The constant competition and need to prove one’s self at Ivies seems toxic.

Said with all the insight of someone on the outside looking in. The atmosphere at most Ivies is far less competitive than at some of the other schools mentioned in this thread.

In any event, being encouraged to apply to an Ivy and getting into one are two different things.

Never said that I thought she could get in. Clearly we are outsiders to the Ivy world, along with 99% of the country and that’s fine with us. Having toured a few Ivies pre-Covid, none of the tours ever said it was not competitive. Quite the opposite, as some of the tour guides listed off the accomplishments of their roommates and friends and talked about the pressure they were under. All the schools at the top are competitive, but we saw a lot of ugly behavior in high school with people stepping on each other to get a leg up in the race to Ivies and want another environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coming across the JHU thread and it’s clear there are some people unfamiliar with American colleges who think Ivy League = the best. It is worth repeating that there are just as many universities NOT in the Ivy League that are just as good and just as prestigious as the Ivies.

Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Cal Tech, JHU, Northwestern, Duke

If we expand to LACS, add Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore and Pomona.

If these schools were to just start their own separate academic “league,” they would rival the Ivy League, easily.

No one thinks only Ivy League is the best. It's a straw man in your own head. But Ivy League is a real grouping that conveys prestige for lay people. MIT and Stanford are also widely accepted as being in the top 5 prestigious schools in the country. T5, HYPMS is a real grouping.

The rest of them are all good schools. But they are not prestigious.

This is the dumbest comment. T5 or HYPMS is no more a “real grouping” than this list here. And to claim that any of these schools aren’t prestigious is uneducated, by which I mean in academia and among the educated elite in this country, these schools certainly do carry prestige.

HYPMS is a real grouping. The list you invented is only in your head and serves no meaningful purpose. You keep changing the subject. You were not talking about prestige among educated elite. For lay people Ivy league has certain prestige even if they may not know all 8. MIT and Stanford have earned their prestige, and are well known by lay people too.

I've never heard of HYPMS outside DCUM/College Confidential. Only the "big three" or the "ivy league" in both official and colloquial contexts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coming across the JHU thread and it’s clear there are some people unfamiliar with American colleges who think Ivy League = the best. It is worth repeating that there are just as many universities NOT in the Ivy League that are just as good and just as prestigious as the Ivies.

Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Cal Tech, JHU, Northwestern, Duke

If we expand to LACS, add Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore and Pomona.

If these schools were to just start their own separate academic “league,” they would rival the Ivy League, easily.

No one thinks only Ivy League is the best. It's a straw man in your own head. But Ivy League is a real grouping that conveys prestige for lay people. MIT and Stanford are also widely accepted as being in the top 5 prestigious schools in the country. T5, HYPMS is a real grouping.

The rest of them are all good schools. But they are not prestigious.

Lol, I believe USNews has Columbia ahead of Yale and Princeton.

As the PP said, the ivy league is a real grouping. I've also heard of the "big three" when I attended college, and yes, I went to one of them. HYPMS is not a real grouping, unless you spend every minute of your life reading college confidential. I've never heard of that acronym until I start reading the forums. Calling these schools "not prestigious" is just plain idiotic and shows how shallow your knowledge is. Not even a Harvard man has the audacity to say call these schools "not prestigious."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC did not apply to any Ivies, though encouraged to do so by the college counselor. The reasoning was that she didn’t want to be pre-judged by where she went to school. People have associations in their minds as well as stereotypes of elitists. Haaaahvahd in a snooty accent is what people think. The connections could help within that elitist group, but that’s not where she wants to be. The constant competition and need to prove one’s self at Ivies seems toxic.

Said with all the insight of someone on the outside looking in. The atmosphere at most Ivies is far less competitive than at some of the other schools mentioned in this thread.

In any event, being encouraged to apply to an Ivy and getting into one are two different things.

Never said that I thought she could get in. Clearly we are outsiders to the Ivy world, along with 99% of the country and that’s fine with us. Having toured a few Ivies pre-Covid, none of the tours ever said it was not competitive. Quite the opposite, as some of the tour guides listed off the accomplishments of their roommates and friends and talked about the pressure they were under. All the schools at the top are competitive, but we saw a lot of ugly behavior in high school with people stepping on each other to get a leg up in the race to Ivies and want another environment.

DP here. The problem with your original post was you demeaned both the schools and highly accomplished kids who attend. You imply that "elite-ism" (whatever that is) is there and it is bad and that you are on a higher moral ground to reject it. Maybe you didn't do it intentionally, but that's what you did.

Not sure where your kid goes to school, but I bet most Ivy parents would say "Great school! Good for her".

Try that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coming across the JHU thread and it’s clear there are some people unfamiliar with American colleges who think Ivy League = the best. It is worth repeating that there are just as many universities NOT in the Ivy League that are just as good and just as prestigious as the Ivies.

Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Cal Tech, JHU, Northwestern, Duke

If we expand to LACS, add Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore and Pomona.

If these schools were to just start their own separate academic “league,” they would rival the Ivy League, easily.

No one thinks only Ivy League is the best. It's a straw man in your own head. But Ivy League is a real grouping that conveys prestige for lay people. MIT and Stanford are also widely accepted as being in the top 5 prestigious schools in the country. T5, HYPMS is a real grouping.

The rest of them are all good schools. But they are not prestigious.

Lol, I believe USNews has Columbia ahead of Yale and Princeton.

As the PP said, the ivy league is a real grouping. I've also heard of the "big three" when I attended college, and yes, I went to one of them. HYPMS is not a real grouping, unless you spend every minute of your life reading college confidential. I've never heard of that acronym until I start reading the forums. Calling these schools "not prestigious" is just plain idiotic and shows how shallow your knowledge is. Not even a Harvard man has the audacity to say call these schools "not prestigious."

Exactly. Anyone claiming that schools like Duke, Northwestern and Chicago — Chicago! — are not prestigious is just embarrassing themselves. Certainly more prestigious than about half of the Ivy League.

[Anonymous]

FWIW I chose to attend one of the schools on OP’s list (not MIT or Stanford) over two Ivies, Dartmouth and Penn, and knew more than just several at my alma mater who had chosen similarly.

The Ivies derive their prestige from their association with Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. All of the other top schools outside of HYP are peer institutions and generally equal in prestige. As others have noted, Stanford and MIT easily match HYP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coming across the JHU thread and it’s clear there are some people unfamiliar with American colleges who think Ivy League = the best. It is worth repeating that there are just as many universities NOT in the Ivy League that are just as good and just as prestigious as the Ivies.

Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Cal Tech, JHU, Northwestern, Duke

If we expand to LACS, add Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore and Pomona.

If these schools were to just start their own separate academic “league,” they would rival the Ivy League, easily.

No one thinks only Ivy League is the best. It's a straw man in your own head. But Ivy League is a real grouping that conveys prestige for lay people. MIT and Stanford are also widely accepted as being in the top 5 prestigious schools in the country. T5, HYPMS is a real grouping.

The rest of them are all good schools. But they are not prestigious.

This is the dumbest comment. T5 or HYPMS is no more a “real grouping” than this list here. And to claim that any of these schools aren’t prestigious is uneducated, by which I mean in academia and among the educated elite in this country, these schools certainly do carry prestige.

HYPMS is a real grouping. The list you invented is only in your head and serves no meaningful purpose. You keep changing the subject. You were not talking about prestige among educated elite. For lay people Ivy league has certain prestige even if they may not know all 8. MIT and Stanford have earned their prestige, and are well known by lay people too.

I've never heard of HYPMS outside DCUM/College Confidential. Only the "big three" or the "ivy league" in both official and colloquial contexts.

MIT and Stanford were founded in late 1800s, before the "big three" - HYP. The grouping is rather new. HYPMS is widely accepted as T5. If you google HYPMS, DCUM/College Confidential are not even on the first page. HS juniors know it. The parents know it. College consultants know it. They are the only EA schools (Caltech is too small) among the top privates.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=HYPSM

TOP DEFINITION
HYPSM
The 5 most prestigious universities in the United States:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC did not apply to any Ivies, though encouraged to do so by the college counselor. The reasoning was that she didn’t want to be pre-judged by where she went to school. People have associations in their minds as well as stereotypes of elitists. Haaaahvahd in a snooty accent is what people think. The connections could help within that elitist group, but that’s not where she wants to be. The constant competition and need to prove one’s self at Ivies seems toxic.

Said with all the insight of someone on the outside looking in. The atmosphere at most Ivies is far less competitive than at some of the other schools mentioned in this thread.

In any event, being encouraged to apply to an Ivy and getting into one are two different things.

Never said that I thought she could get in. Clearly we are outsiders to the Ivy world, along with 99% of the country and that’s fine with us. Having toured a few Ivies pre-Covid, none of the tours ever said it was not competitive. Quite the opposite, as some of the tour guides listed off the accomplishments of their roommates and friends and talked about the pressure they were under. All the schools at the top are competitive, but we saw a lot of ugly behavior in high school with people stepping on each other to get a leg up in the race to Ivies and want another environment.

DP here. The problem with your original post was you demeaned both the schools and highly accomplished kids who attend. You imply that "elite-ism" (whatever that is) is there and it is bad and that you are on a higher moral ground to reject it. Maybe you didn't do it intentionally, but that's what you did.

Not sure where your kid goes to school, but I bet most Ivy parents would say "Great school! Good for her".

Try that.

I don’t think I demeaned the schools or the students, but I apologize if it came across that way. I think Ivies are on such a high pedestal, and that was too much pressure for my child. My colleagues have Ivy League kids and they are incredible students and people. But people do make assumptions about how they got in, and that they think they’re better than others. Whether or not that is true, there is that perception out there about Ivies. Just like there are going to be stereotypes about someone attending Liberty U. Plenty of great schools that don’t come with as many preconceived notions. Many kids want that recognition and lifelong connection, but there are very strong students who want a different environment and not to be surrounded by the exclusivity of the Ivies. Elitism is a thing, I’m surprised that an Ivy League person would not be familiar with the term.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC did not apply to any Ivies, though encouraged to do so by the college counselor. The reasoning was that she didn’t want to be pre-judged by where she went to school. People have associations in their minds as well as stereotypes of elitists. Haaaahvahd in a snooty accent is what people think. The connections could help within that elitist group, but that’s not where she wants to be. The constant competition and need to prove one’s self at Ivies seems toxic.

Said with all the insight of someone on the outside looking in. The atmosphere at most Ivies is far less competitive than at some of the other schools mentioned in this thread.

In any event, being encouraged to apply to an Ivy and getting into one are two different things.

Never said that I thought she could get in. Clearly we are outsiders to the Ivy world, along with 99% of the country and that’s fine with us. Having toured a few Ivies pre-Covid, none of the tours ever said it was not competitive. Quite the opposite, as some of the tour guides listed off the accomplishments of their roommates and friends and talked about the pressure they were under. All the schools at the top are competitive, but we saw a lot of ugly behavior in high school with people stepping on each other to get a leg up in the race to Ivies and want another environment.

DP here. The problem with your original post was you demeaned both the schools and highly accomplished kids who attend. You imply that "elite-ism" (whatever that is) is there and it is bad and that you are on a higher moral ground to reject it. Maybe you didn't do it intentionally, but that's what you did.

Not sure where your kid goes to school, but I bet most Ivy parents would say "Great school! Good for her".

Try that.

I don’t think I demeaned the schools or the students, but I apologize if it came across that way. I think Ivies are on such a high pedestal, and that was too much pressure for my child. My colleagues have Ivy League kids and they are incredible students and people. But people do make assumptions about how they got in, and that they think they’re better than others. Whether or not that is true, there is that perception out there about Ivies. Just like there are going to be stereotypes about someone attending Liberty U. Plenty of great schools that don’t come with as many preconceived notions. Many kids want that recognition and lifelong connection, but there are very strong students who want a different environment and not to be surrounded by the exclusivity of the Ivies. Elitism is a thing, I’m surprised that an Ivy League person would not be familiar with the term.

Hadda get that last dig in, didn't you. I am familiar with the term, just never certain of a meaning of any value.

Also, your whole apology is "stereotypes exist, deal with it".

0 for 2.

I'll repeat: Not sure where your kid goes to school, but I bet most Ivy parents would say "Great school! Good for her".

Try that.

[Anonymous]

“HYPSM” is just as contrived a concept as the list of schools in OP, which are also widely considered equivalents to the Ivy League schools, so it’s a moot point.

[Anonymous]

I’d easily choose Stanford over Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Columbia.

I’d easily choose Chicago over Penn.

I’d easily choose Duke, Northwestern or Hopkins over Cornell, Brown or Dartmouth.

I don’t mention MIT or CIT because I’m not an engineer but those are also easy choices over any of the Ivies for their respective fields.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“HYPSM” is just as contrived a concept as the list of schools in OP, which are also widely considered equivalents to the Ivy League schools, so it’s a moot point.

HYP, the big three has been around for centuries. The addition of MIT and Stanford happened naturally. It is widely known. The grouping by OP does not exist anywhere else except in OP's head. It serves no meaningful purpose. Lay people know MIT and Stanford are just as prestigious as HYP. But they don't view Hopkins or Northwestern is in the same league as OP made it out to be.

OP likely did not attend MIT, Stanford or any Ivy League school and has a chip on his/her shoulder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“HYPSM” is just as contrived a concept as the list of schools in OP, which are also widely considered equivalents to the Ivy League schools, so it’s a moot point.

HYP, the big three has been around for centuries. The addition of MIT and Stanford happened naturally. It is widely known. The grouping by OP does not exist anywhere else except in OP's head. It serves no meaningful purpose. Lay people know MIT and Stanford are just as prestigious as HYP. But they don't view Hopkins or Northwestern is in the same league as OP made it out to be.

OP likely did not attend MIT, Stanford or any Ivy League school and has a chip on his/her shoulder.

These assumptions do not live anywhere else except in your head.

[Anonymous]

“ MIT and Stanford were founded in late 1800s, before the "big three" - HYP.”

You are so ignorant.