Holding back advanced child for social reasons

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a middle school counselor in a public school, and I see time and time again the difficulty students who are the youngest and behind socially have. My first thought is that kids with September birthdays are rarely the oldest - that honor is for the summer babies (June, July and August) who were held back! Second, I think height has very little to do with it, as kids this age come in all shapes and sizes.

With the scores you mentioned, your child should qualify for target/gifted/advanced classes, so hopefully, boredom wouldn't be an issue. There may be some repetition, but in those instances, ask his teachers for extension activities or do a quick Google search for ideas. Also, not always, but I frequently see younger (even very bright) students struggle with the organizational expectations in middle school. Multiple teachers, notebooks, lockers, etc. can be tough to manage and require maturity.

Socially speaking, it's not just about whether or not he'll have an easier time making friends, it's also about his peers' interests and experiences. When fellow classmates are talking about dating, going through puberty, and worrying about social media, that can put a great deal of pressure on a child who is not "there" yet. That could happen even if he's the oldest, but it's more likely to happen when a child is the youngest and less socially/physically mature.

You have to also think about high school. Academics are important, but spending potentially seven years of your life feeling behind socially can take a toll.

It sounds as if you've done a great job explaining the differences in placement in his current school and public and have helped him understand this decision isn't about his intelligence or academic performance. Yea mom!

Each year I support students younger than everyone else who thrive, those older than everyone else who struggle, and students everywhere in between. There is no set answer for the hold back/move ahead question. I would encourage you to talk with the middle school, talk with his current teachers, and try to think about more than just academics when making the decision. Good luck to you!

Thank you, thank you for such a thoughtful response. I bolded the items you eloquently said that I did not have the words for but are concerns. Especially coming from a school where the structure is very different and they don't have homework or tests to organize and prepare for. He doesn't struggle socially now in his current environment, but I feel puberty plus a new school could change that and being on the older side vs youngest would be an easier adjustment.

[Anonymous]

Your son needs to be around brighter kids, not kids who are even further behind.

I would homeschool him, and if I couldn’t do that then I’d move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a middle school counselor in a public school, and I see time and time again the difficulty students who are the youngest and behind socially have. My first thought is that kids with September birthdays are rarely the oldest - that honor is for the summer babies (June, July and August) who were held back! Second, I think height has very little to do with it, as kids this age come in all shapes and sizes.

With the scores you mentioned, your child should qualify for target/gifted/advanced classes, so hopefully, boredom wouldn't be an issue. There may be some repetition, but in those instances, ask his teachers for extension activities or do a quick Google search for ideas. Also, not always, but I frequently see younger (even very bright) students struggle with the organizational expectations in middle school. Multiple teachers, notebooks, lockers, etc. can be tough to manage and require maturity.

Socially speaking, it's not just about whether or not he'll have an easier time making friends, it's also about his peers' interests and experiences. When fellow classmates are talking about dating, going through puberty, and worrying about social media, that can put a great deal of pressure on a child who is not "there" yet. That could happen even if he's the oldest, but it's more likely to happen when a child is the youngest and less socially/physically mature.

You have to also think about high school. Academics are important, but spending potentially seven years of your life feeling behind socially can take a toll.

It sounds as if you've done a great job explaining the differences in placement in his current school and public and have helped him understand this decision isn't about his intelligence or academic performance. Yea mom!

Each year I support students younger than everyone else who thrive, those older than everyone else who struggle, and students everywhere in between. There is no set answer for the hold back/move ahead question. I would encourage you to talk with the middle school, talk with his current teachers, and try to think about more than just academics when making the decision. Good luck to you!

Thank you, thank you for such a thoughtful response. I bolded the items you eloquently said that I did not have the words for but are concerns. Especially coming from a school where the structure is very different and they don't have homework or tests to organize and prepare for. He doesn't struggle socially now in his current environment, but I feel puberty plus a new school could change that and being on the older side vs youngest would be an easier adjustment.

If your kid isn't struggling socially now then WTH are you so worried about?? Don't try to solve problems that don't exist. Please don't put the burden of your anxieties on your kid. Yes, it's a change, but why would your bright, advanced, and socially adept kid not be able to handle it?

The closest equivalent I can think of is you missing out on a promotion because some well-intentoned boss is worried about the effects of menopause on your performance. How would that make you feel?

[Anonymous]

Definitely have him go into 6th, rather than 7th. I’m an October birthday and my parents made the mistake of aligning me with where I was academically, rather than socially. Big mistake.

Luckily, when we moved, they had me repeat 3rd grade, so I could be with kids my own age without the stigma of repeating a year. It was SO much better after that.

I did really well in school, but it was so much easier to have my teachers give me more academic work than to be so behind the other kids socially/emotionally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a middle school counselor in a public school, and I see time and time again the difficulty students who are the youngest and behind socially have. My first thought is that kids with September birthdays are rarely the oldest - that honor is for the summer babies (June, July and August) who were held back! Second, I think height has very little to do with it, as kids this age come in all shapes and sizes.

With the scores you mentioned, your child should qualify for target/gifted/advanced classes, so hopefully, boredom wouldn't be an issue. There may be some repetition, but in those instances, ask his teachers for extension activities or do a quick Google search for ideas. Also, not always, but I frequently see younger (even very bright) students struggle with the organizational expectations in middle school. Multiple teachers, notebooks, lockers, etc. can be tough to manage and require maturity.

Socially speaking, it's not just about whether or not he'll have an easier time making friends, it's also about his peers' interests and experiences. When fellow classmates are talking about dating, going through puberty, and worrying about social media, that can put a great deal of pressure on a child who is not "there" yet. That could happen even if he's the oldest, but it's more likely to happen when a child is the youngest and less socially/physically mature.

You have to also think about high school. Academics are important, but spending potentially seven years of your life feeling behind socially can take a toll.

It sounds as if you've done a great job explaining the differences in placement in his current school and public and have helped him understand this decision isn't about his intelligence or academic performance. Yea mom!

Each year I support students younger than everyone else who thrive, those older than everyone else who struggle, and students everywhere in between. There is no set answer for the hold back/move ahead question. I would encourage you to talk with the middle school, talk with his current teachers, and try to think about more than just academics when making the decision. Good luck to you!

Thank you, thank you for such a thoughtful response. I bolded the items you eloquently said that I did not have the words for but are concerns. Especially coming from a school where the structure is very different and they don't have homework or tests to organize and prepare for. He doesn't struggle socially now in his current environment, but I feel puberty plus a new school could change that and being on the older side vs youngest would be an easier adjustment.

All that academic stuff is normal for any child and that's a regular concern of most parents, it was us and ours had no issue adjusting. There is very little homework in middle school. The nice thing about middle school is more kids and he'll find someone. We have a young 6th grader and its been no issue at all with the transition. I had a all the same worries but child loves middle school and has a mix of 6-7th grade friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is late fall? If after September 30th, he will be old for the class in public.

NO, she said he's young for his age and is born in the "late fall" - so if he's born in October AND young for his age, that means he really "should" be in the grade behind, and public schools would have insisted. (so he was a a child who turned 4 years old October 30 or later in Kindergarten when everyone was 5 at enrollment or by Sept 30). Because if he were born in Ocrober or November he should be "older" in the classroom - that is most kids have to be 5 years old by Sept 1 or Sept 30 in this area, so a child born in October or November will turn 6 soon after starting Kindergarten - and hence, not young.

Given he knows that Montessori is different and their grades "don't equal" public school grades (and that's true, as Grades 1 to 3 and together, Grades 3 to 6 are together and Preschool through Kindergarten are together - there is a 3 year rotation) I'd have him do 6th grade to "right age" him for his grades 6 to 12

[Anonymous]

No way. And he won’t do any better socially. Many gifted kids struggle socially because they can’t relate to kids who are so different from them intellectually. Being with younger kids isn’t going to help.

This was not our experience at all.

OP, my DS has a late fall birthday and we had him repeat a grade in middle school. He switched from our local public school (where he had literally received only As) to a private school, and we decided it was a good time to repeat. After agonizing over the decision, we concluded that repeating a year did not put him behind in any way (at worst, it was just a detour), and we hoped that because the curriculums did not totally overlap he would still learn new things (and this is what happened). Our decision was based totally on his social/emotional maturity - he was not drastically lagging socially, but as he got older we noticed it more. It was absolutely the best decision for him, and he told us that himself in high school. He was valedictorian of his high school class and went to an Ivy League college.

When we were considering it, a friend told us that you never meet anyone who regrets having their kid repeat, you only hear of people who regret not doing it. We never once regretted our decision after making it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a middle school counselor in a public school, and I see time and time again the difficulty students who are the youngest and behind socially have. My first thought is that kids with September birthdays are rarely the oldest - that honor is for the summer babies (June, July and August) who were held back! Second, I think height has very little to do with it, as kids this age come in all shapes and sizes.

With the scores you mentioned, your child should qualify for target/gifted/advanced classes, so hopefully, boredom wouldn't be an issue. There may be some repetition, but in those instances, ask his teachers for extension activities or do a quick Google search for ideas. Also, not always, but I frequently see younger (even very bright) students struggle with the organizational expectations in middle school. Multiple teachers, notebooks, lockers, etc. can be tough to manage and require maturity.

Socially speaking, it's not just about whether or not he'll have an easier time making friends, it's also about his peers' interests and experiences. When fellow classmates are talking about dating, going through puberty, and worrying about social media, that can put a great deal of pressure on a child who is not "there" yet. That could happen even if he's the oldest, but it's more likely to happen when a child is the youngest and less socially/physically mature.

You have to also think about high school. Academics are important, but spending potentially seven years of your life feeling behind socially can take a toll.

It sounds as if you've done a great job explaining the differences in placement in his current school and public and have helped him understand this decision isn't about his intelligence or academic performance. Yea mom!

Each year I support students younger than everyone else who thrive, those older than everyone else who struggle, and students everywhere in between. There is no set answer for the hold back/move ahead question. I would encourage you to talk with the middle school, talk with his current teachers, and try to think about more than just academics when making the decision. Good luck to you!

Thank you, thank you for such a thoughtful response. I bolded the items you eloquently said that I did not have the words for but are concerns. Especially coming from a school where the structure is very different and they don't have homework or tests to organize and prepare for. He doesn't struggle socially now in his current environment, but I feel puberty plus a new school could change that and being on the older side vs youngest would be an easier adjustment.

All that academic stuff is normal for any child and that's a regular concern of most parents, it was us and ours had no issue adjusting. There is very little homework in middle school. The nice thing about middle school is more kids and he'll find someone. We have a young 6th grader and its been no issue at all with the transition. I had a all the same worries but child loves middle school and has a mix of 6-7th grade friends.

You are correct that all students have to manage the "academic stuff" and that most parents have similar concerns, but you would be incorrect to assume that all kids figure it out with the same level of effort or in the same amount of time. I live in an area where we were virtual Q1 and where students had the opportunity to return to school for Q2, so many of my students are wrapping up almost 8 weeks back in the building. Just yesterday, I had a 6th grade boy angry and crying in my office because his notebook paper didn't move easily across the rings in his binder. I can't tell you the number of gifted students I support each year who have a very difficult time accepting that studying in middle school requires more than studying 15 minutes the night before a test in order to earn an A. It's not because they don't care, they just haven't had to work at the same level before. Every year I have students overwhelmed beyond the first few weeks of school with changing classes and remembering locker codes (and the right, left, right method of opening). I have about 500 students per grade and am in a school where almost half are identified as gifted. Another 25ish% qualify for some advanced classes, even though they don't officially qualify for gifted. I promise you, I fully understand gifted students and their academic needs. They are all amazing in various ways, but intelligence does not override anxiety, stress, or immaturity. As I mentioned above, there is no set answer to OP's question, but I have concerns when I see replies only focused on the academic perspective. If we're talking the next "Doogie Howser," then sure, holding back probably won't make much of a difference socially. However, that type of student is not the norm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a middle school counselor in a public school, and I see time and time again the difficulty students who are the youngest and behind socially have. My first thought is that kids with September birthdays are rarely the oldest - that honor is for the summer babies (June, July and August) who were held back! Second, I think height has very little to do with it, as kids this age come in all shapes and sizes.

With the scores you mentioned, your child should qualify for target/gifted/advanced classes, so hopefully, boredom wouldn't be an issue. There may be some repetition, but in those instances, ask his teachers for extension activities or do a quick Google search for ideas. Also, not always, but I frequently see younger (even very bright) students struggle with the organizational expectations in middle school. Multiple teachers, notebooks, lockers, etc. can be tough to manage and require maturity.

Socially speaking, it's not just about whether or not he'll have an easier time making friends, it's also about his peers' interests and experiences. When fellow classmates are talking about dating, going through puberty, and worrying about social media, that can put a great deal of pressure on a child who is not "there" yet. That could happen even if he's the oldest, but it's more likely to happen when a child is the youngest and less socially/physically mature.

You have to also think about high school. Academics are important, but spending potentially seven years of your life feeling behind socially can take a toll.

It sounds as if you've done a great job explaining the differences in placement in his current school and public and have helped him understand this decision isn't about his intelligence or academic performance. Yea mom!

Each year I support students younger than everyone else who thrive, those older than everyone else who struggle, and students everywhere in between. There is no set answer for the hold back/move ahead question. I would encourage you to talk with the middle school, talk with his current teachers, and try to think about more than just academics when making the decision. Good luck to you!

Thank you, thank you for such a thoughtful response. I bolded the items you eloquently said that I did not have the words for but are concerns. Especially coming from a school where the structure is very different and they don't have homework or tests to organize and prepare for. He doesn't struggle socially now in his current environment, but I feel puberty plus a new school could change that and being on the older side vs youngest would be an easier adjustment.

All that academic stuff is normal for any child and that's a regular concern of most parents, it was us and ours had no issue adjusting. There is very little homework in middle school. The nice thing about middle school is more kids and he'll find someone. We have a young 6th grader and its been no issue at all with the transition. I had a all the same worries but child loves middle school and has a mix of 6-7th grade friends.

You are correct that all students have to manage the "academic stuff" and that most parents have similar concerns, but you would be incorrect to assume that all kids figure it out with the same level of effort or in the same amount of time. I live in an area where we were virtual Q1 and where students had the opportunity to return to school for Q2, so many of my students are wrapping up almost 8 weeks back in the building. Just yesterday, I had a 6th grade boy angry and crying in my office because his notebook paper didn't move easily across the rings in his binder. I can't tell you the number of gifted students I support each year who have a very difficult time accepting that studying in middle school requires more than studying 15 minutes the night before a test in order to earn an A. It's not because they don't care, they just haven't had to work at the same level before. Every year I have students overwhelmed beyond the first few weeks of school with changing classes and remembering locker codes (and the right, left, right method of opening). I have about 500 students per grade and am in a school where almost half are identified as gifted. Another 25ish% qualify for some advanced classes, even though they don't officially qualify for gifted. I promise you, I fully understand gifted students and their academic needs. They are all amazing in various ways, but intelligence does not override anxiety, stress, or immaturity. As I mentioned above, there is no set answer to OP's question, but I have concerns when I see replies only focused on the academic perspective. If we're talking the next "Doogie Howser," then sure, holding back probably won't make much of a difference socially. However, that type of student is not the norm.

Our ES did not teach basic skills like organizing and using a notebook or even how to write on notebook paper. All the 6 th graders will struggle with that stuff when they go back.

[Anonymous]

To offer another perspective, I skipped 3rd grade with a spring birthday, so I was always the youngest. I never felt behind socially and did well academically and in sports. I'm short, but would be short whether I was a grade younger or older. BUT, I also acknowledge that times are different with social media. Back in my day, you used slam books to bully someone, not social media.

[Anonymous]

You are worried about your child's self esteem and being in a tough environment. You don't think that being held back won't impact a smart kid's self esteem? What will he think about himself? Are you sowing seeds of doubt and capability? Why not work on improving how your child handles social situations and help him grow a thicker skin over the next year.? By sixth grade many parents aren't coddling their kids like you and many kids are pulling away from their parents. I have a young for his age 4th grader. I couldn't imagine telling him that next year he's going to repeat the same grade. He would be upset and it would very likely change his perspective on how he thinks of himself.

[Anonymous]

Growing up there was a kid in my sister's class like your son. He was super smart, but young and small and it really hurt his confidence. He would get so overwhelmed at school that his hone life suffered. They had him repeat 2nd grade to fully develop the maturity needed to thrive. And thrive he did-- he graduated as the valedictorian and with 36 college credits. He was a great athlete and was popular. He went to the Naval Academy and had a fantastic career. And most importantly, he was so much happier.

Your son is older, so it's different. I'd definitely talk to your son's teachers about their thoughts. I'd be more inclined to keep him at grade level. He can find his circle and will adapt to the bigger school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are worried about your child's self esteem and being in a tough environment. You don't think that being held back won't impact a smart kid's self esteem? What will he think about himself? Are you sowing seeds of doubt and capability? Why not work on improving how your child handles social situations and help him grow a thicker skin over the next year.? By sixth grade many parents aren't coddling their kids like you and many kids are pulling away from their parents. I have a young for his age 4th grader. I couldn't imagine telling him that next year he's going to repeat the same grade. He would be upset and it would very likely change his perspective on how he thinks of himself.

this!

[Anonymous]

OP - you should do what you think is best - unfortunately there is no crystal ball. Kids mature at different rates. I have twins in MS and one would happily play with her dolls while the other would move into her own apartment tomorrow if allowed. DC may need a larger more diverse environment to find his own crowd.

FWIW, I skipped a MS grade and so was a year younger compared to in-grade kids. I did switch schools also. It was a stretch socially through HS but once I hit college it all worked out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son has a late fall birthday and young for his current grade (5th). He currently goes to a small private school where 4-6th grade work all together and he has always been able to work at whatever level he needs. He is currently working on materials 2-3 grades above 5th grade in core subjects and tests 95-99% on standardized tests. He will stay in 6th grade at private, but then switch to public after. When he switches, I am thinking of sending him to public 6th instead of 7th. He doesn't know anyone so it won't be an issue of kids knowing he was "held back." He is small for his age and sensitive. Our public schools are underperforming and a pretty rough environment overall. I feel like he will do better socially being older instead of younger. But that would put him light years ahead of most his peer academically (our public school is below state proficiency averages). I think it may be ok though because starting in middle school, our district has an excellent and rigerous academically talented program where the qualifying kids are taking to a partnering state university for their core classes.

Has anyone held an older child back for purely social reasons even though they were academically advanced?

We have a similar question and are moving to a new school district.

Repeat last year in ES near the house for our late summer bday girl, going from low stress private to competitive public.
Or go to next grade which is their MS model, in a district with heavy redshirting from K (1/3 the class started at the next age, ie 6 for K start).

She is talk, quite mature, and average academically, but sensitive and will be younger by a lot at new school. If held back she will be middle of age range, ironically.