Lottery is Off the Table

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone ever done a study of the percentage of blacks and Hispanics who graduated with a full IB diploma in FCPS? This might shed light on whether open access to a challenging program makes a difference in black/Hispanic enrollment.
Also, is there any study on the percentage of black/Hispanic participation in the STEM academies at Marshall, Chantilly and Edison?

The reason I ask these questions is that no one knows why there is a racial disparity at TJ. There's this assumption that there must be something wrong with the admissions process or school culture, but what if it's another reason? Why is no one doing an objective study on this?

We have a very good idea. They do not want to spend time and effort to get in, work like crazy and likely end up with average grades and damage their chanced at good colleges after all that effort even if the percentage of them goes up to ten percent.

That's an oversimplified explanation. There's so much more involved but I doubt you'd care to dig deeper into the reasons.

I'm sure the people supporting a random lottery among students with only moderate qualifications dug really deep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone ever done a study of the percentage of blacks and Hispanics who graduated with a full IB diploma in FCPS? This might shed light on whether open access to a challenging program makes a difference in black/Hispanic enrollment.
Also, is there any study on the percentage of black/Hispanic participation in the STEM academies at Marshall, Chantilly and Edison?

The reason I ask these questions is that no one knows why there is a racial disparity at TJ. There's this assumption that there must be something wrong with the admissions process or school culture, but what if it's another reason? Why is no one doing an objective study on this?

We have a very good idea. They do not want to spend time and effort to get in, work like crazy and likely end up with average grades and damage their chanced at good colleges after all that effort even if the percentage of them goes up to ten percent.

That's an oversimplified explanation. There's so much more involved but I doubt you'd care to dig deeper into the reasons.

Oh I am intimately familiar with TJ and have been for 17 years.

Then you know that applications have been declining from non-Asian American students. And you think you know why and aren't interested in changing that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone ever done a study of the percentage of blacks and Hispanics who graduated with a full IB diploma in FCPS? This might shed light on whether open access to a challenging program makes a difference in black/Hispanic enrollment.
Also, is there any study on the percentage of black/Hispanic participation in the STEM academies at Marshall, Chantilly and Edison?

The reason I ask these questions is that no one knows why there is a racial disparity at TJ. There's this assumption that there must be something wrong with the admissions process or school culture, but what if it's another reason? Why is no one doing an objective study on this?

We have a very good idea. They do not want to spend time and effort to get in, work like crazy and likely end up with average grades and damage their chanced at good colleges after all that effort even if the percentage of them goes up to ten percent.

That's an oversimplified explanation. There's so much more involved but I doubt you'd care to dig deeper into the reasons.

Oh I am intimately familiar with TJ and have been for 17 years.

Then you know that applications have been declining from non-Asian American students. And you think you know why and aren't interested in changing that.

DP. Applications have also been declining from Asian students in recent years.

One could reasonably ask why it matters, though. If students are happy at their base schools and TJ still has an entering class with students who wish to attend TJ, a decline in admissions just means there are fewer disappointed kids.

There is something weird about those on both sides of this issue who center TJ as if everything in FCPS should revolve around one school and FCPS should only be judged based on TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone ever done a study of the percentage of blacks and Hispanics who graduated with a full IB diploma in FCPS? This might shed light on whether open access to a challenging program makes a difference in black/Hispanic enrollment.
Also, is there any study on the percentage of black/Hispanic participation in the STEM academies at Marshall, Chantilly and Edison?

The reason I ask these questions is that no one knows why there is a racial disparity at TJ. There's this assumption that there must be something wrong with the admissions process or school culture, but what if it's another reason? Why is no one doing an objective study on this?

We have a very good idea. They do not want to spend time and effort to get in, work like crazy and likely end up with average grades and damage their chanced at good colleges after all that effort even if the percentage of them goes up to ten percent.

That's an oversimplified explanation. There's so much more involved but I doubt you'd care to dig deeper into the reasons.

Oh I am intimately familiar with TJ and have been for 17 years.

Then you know that applications have been declining from non-Asian American students. And you think you know why and aren't interested in changing that.

I am definitely interested in changing that but lottery is definitely not the way to go. We have to recruit more URMs into AAP and have a program for URMs beginning in kindergarten to second grade to provide the rigorous preparation and foundation for them. Improving all struggling elementary schools by moving quality teachers and administrators to those schools will help as well. We want URMs to succeed once they get to TJ not just have them sink or swim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone ever done a study of the percentage of blacks and Hispanics who graduated with a full IB diploma in FCPS? This might shed light on whether open access to a challenging program makes a difference in black/Hispanic enrollment.
Also, is there any study on the percentage of black/Hispanic participation in the STEM academies at Marshall, Chantilly and Edison?

The reason I ask these questions is that no one knows why there is a racial disparity at TJ. There's this assumption that there must be something wrong with the admissions process or school culture, but what if it's another reason? Why is no one doing an objective study on this?

We have a very good idea. They do not want to spend time and effort to get in, work like crazy and likely end up with average grades and damage their chanced at good colleges after all that effort even if the percentage of them goes up to ten percent.

That's an oversimplified explanation. There's so much more involved but I doubt you'd care to dig deeper into the reasons.

Oh I am intimately familiar with TJ and have been for 17 years.

Then you know that applications have been declining from non-Asian American students. And you think you know why and aren't interested in changing that.

DP. Applications have also been declining from Asian students in recent years.

One could reasonably ask why it matters, though. If students are happy at their base schools and TJ still has an entering class with students who wish to attend TJ, a decline in admissions just means there are fewer disappointed kids.

There is something weird about those on both sides of this issue who center TJ as if everything in FCPS should revolve around one school and FCPS should only be judged based on TJ.

“Equity is at the center of everything we do.”

Nah

“TJ is at the center of everything we do.”

Much better

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone ever done a study of the percentage of blacks and Hispanics who graduated with a full IB diploma in FCPS? This might shed light on whether open access to a challenging program makes a difference in black/Hispanic enrollment.
Also, is there any study on the percentage of black/Hispanic participation in the STEM academies at Marshall, Chantilly and Edison?

The reason I ask these questions is that no one knows why there is a racial disparity at TJ. There's this assumption that there must be something wrong with the admissions process or school culture, but what if it's another reason? Why is no one doing an objective study on this?

We have a very good idea. They do not want to spend time and effort to get in, work like crazy and likely end up with average grades and damage their chanced at good colleges after all that effort even if the percentage of them goes up to ten percent.

That's an oversimplified explanation. There's so much more involved but I doubt you'd care to dig deeper into the reasons.

Oh I am intimately familiar with TJ and have been for 17 years.

Then you know that applications have been declining from non-Asian American students. And you think you know why and aren't interested in changing that.

DP. Applications have also been declining from Asian students in recent years.

One could reasonably ask why it matters, though. If students are happy at their base schools and TJ still has an entering class with students who wish to attend TJ, a decline in admissions just means there are fewer disappointed kids.

There is something weird about those on both sides of this issue who center TJ as if everything in FCPS should revolve around one school and FCPS should only be judged based on TJ.

Agree with PP regarding declining applications. What has been overlooked is that admission to top colleges in the past few years are getting more random and yet competitive. It is no longer true that if you do well in school, have high stats, you can get into top colleges. We have been told repeatedly that colleges judge students against their cohorts from the same school. It will be easier to standout in base school as a top student than in TJ as a middle of the road student. That is true for Asians, Whites and URMs. That itself can explain a lot of the declining in TJ applications. But why does it matter, as PP nicely put it? Self selection implies that those that choose to attend will be the most motivated students that are interested in STEM, despite the prospect of a tougher college admission environment. There are plenty of highly gifted kids, including URMs, Asians and Whites, not in TJ and that is OK. These highly gifted non-TJ kids are scattered across base schools and private schools. I know of many of such kids. Their family prioritize something else which is OK. Being highly gifted is neither sufficient nor necessary for TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should still allow 20% of the students from each region. They can do it using the application process but each region in FCPS should receive 20% of the slots.

It’s not good enough for the School Board members who know some pyramids within a region have stronger students than others.

Something has to give. This is a lot better than a lottery.

But it all starts in elementary school - that is where the resources should be spent.

There is a fight for the really talented URMs by the time you get to high school - regional privates, boarding schools, etc. If they are talented and financially constrained, they can go to these schools for free. They are much better represented in those schools.

You all are ignoring the other elephant.

The culture of the school needs to be fixed. A change in admissions to a lottery would accomplish this. If not a lottery, then a different change will be needed.

You understand that language is code for anti Asian American racism, right? The culture of the school is fine or even better. You have no direct knowledge of the school’s culture yet freely speak about it.

More directly: The culture of the school is cheating. It needs to be fixed. By a lottery or another way. Fixing the culture benefits all students, Asian American and everyone.

Cheating is NOT the culture at TJ! And stop implying that all Asians cheat! There are hundreds of whites at TJ. Some of the whites cheat, but not all. Same with Asians. Just stop it with the lies, you racist SOB!

He's only saying this because any other explanation for why Asians do well would puncture his racist superiority complex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone ever done a study of the percentage of blacks and Hispanics who graduated with a full IB diploma in FCPS? This might shed light on whether open access to a challenging program makes a difference in black/Hispanic enrollment.
Also, is there any study on the percentage of black/Hispanic participation in the STEM academies at Marshall, Chantilly and Edison?

The reason I ask these questions is that no one knows why there is a racial disparity at TJ. There's this assumption that there must be something wrong with the admissions process or school culture, but what if it's another reason? Why is no one doing an objective study on this?

We have a very good idea. They do not want to spend time and effort to get in, work like crazy and likely end up with average grades and damage their chanced at good colleges after all that effort even if the percentage of them goes up to ten percent.

That's an oversimplified explanation. There's so much more involved but I doubt you'd care to dig deeper into the reasons.

Oh I am intimately familiar with TJ and have been for 17 years.

Then you know that applications have been declining from non-Asian American students. And you think you know why and aren't interested in changing that.

I am definitely interested in changing that but lottery is definitely not the way to go. We have to recruit more URMs into AAP and have a program for URMs beginning in kindergarten to second grade to provide the rigorous preparation and foundation for them. Improving all struggling elementary schools by moving quality teachers and administrators to those schools will help as well. We want URMs to succeed once they get to TJ not just have them sink or swim.

This post is just ... you are uninformed. FCPS does that and is continuing to expand on the efforts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should still allow 20% of the students from each region. They can do it using the application process but each region in FCPS should receive 20% of the slots.

It’s not good enough for the School Board members who know some pyramids within a region have stronger students than others.

Something has to give. This is a lot better than a lottery.

But it all starts in elementary school - that is where the resources should be spent.

There is a fight for the really talented URMs by the time you get to high school - regional privates, boarding schools, etc. If they are talented and financially constrained, they can go to these schools for free. They are much better represented in those schools.

You all are ignoring the other elephant.

The culture of the school needs to be fixed. A change in admissions to a lottery would accomplish this. If not a lottery, then a different change will be needed.

You understand that language is code for anti Asian American racism, right? The culture of the school is fine or even better. You have no direct knowledge of the school’s culture yet freely speak about it.

This has to do with the test prep culture and cheating scandal, not ethnicity,

[Anonymous]

Do you think k kids should take take the SAT cold, with no practice? What about the MCAT, LSAT or GRE?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should still allow 20% of the students from each region. They can do it using the application process but each region in FCPS should receive 20% of the slots.

It’s not good enough for the School Board members who know some pyramids within a region have stronger students than others.

Something has to give. This is a lot better than a lottery.

But it all starts in elementary school - that is where the resources should be spent.

There is a fight for the really talented URMs by the time you get to high school - regional privates, boarding schools, etc. If they are talented and financially constrained, they can go to these schools for free. They are much better represented in those schools.

You all are ignoring the other elephant.

The culture of the school needs to be fixed. A change in admissions to a lottery would accomplish this. If not a lottery, then a different change will be needed.

You understand that language is code for anti Asian American racism, right? The culture of the school is fine or even better. You have no direct knowledge of the school’s culture yet freely speak about it.

This has to do with the test prep culture and cheating scandal, not ethnicity,

Whites have a tendency to demonize any group that threatens their position with manufactured infractions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you think k kids should take take the SAT cold, with no practice? What about the MCAT, LSAT or GRE?

Yes SJW certainly never took prep courses fir any of those tests and will never allow their kids to prep for those tests either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you think k kids should take take the SAT cold, with no practice? What about the MCAT, LSAT or GRE?

For the SAT, decades ago, yes. But the cat got out of the bag, they changed the test, and now colleges are abandoning it altogether.

The MCAT and LSAT are different, for anyone who knows them.

You're so cute. Keep it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should still allow 20% of the students from each region. They can do it using the application process but each region in FCPS should receive 20% of the slots.

It’s not good enough for the School Board members who know some pyramids within a region have stronger students than others.

Something has to give. This is a lot better than a lottery.

But it all starts in elementary school - that is where the resources should be spent.

There is a fight for the really talented URMs by the time you get to high school - regional privates, boarding schools, etc. If they are talented and financially constrained, they can go to these schools for free. They are much better represented in those schools.

You all are ignoring the other elephant.

The culture of the school needs to be fixed. A change in admissions to a lottery would accomplish this. If not a lottery, then a different change will be needed.

You understand that language is code for anti Asian American racism, right? The culture of the school is fine or even better. You have no direct knowledge of the school’s culture yet freely speak about it.

This has to do with the test prep culture and cheating scandal, not ethnicity,

Whites have a tendency to demonize any group that threatens their position with manufactured infractions.

If you say so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should still allow 20% of the students from each region. They can do it using the application process but each region in FCPS should receive 20% of the slots.

It’s not good enough for the School Board members who know some pyramids within a region have stronger students than others.

Something has to give. This is a lot better than a lottery.

But it all starts in elementary school - that is where the resources should be spent.

There is a fight for the really talented URMs by the time you get to high school - regional privates, boarding schools, etc. If they are talented and financially constrained, they can go to these schools for free. They are much better represented in those schools.

You all are ignoring the other elephant.

The culture of the school needs to be fixed. A change in admissions to a lottery would accomplish this. If not a lottery, then a different change will be needed.

I have a STEM background. I do not have children at TJ, but I am lucky to have passed paths with many TJ graduates, who went to IVY league schools or MIT. Just like the student body, most are Asian, but some are White, and one was AA. I have worked day to day with them during and after college. They are a good bunch and work hard. Perhaps, only the good and only those who work hard make it to me, but that is the sample I have gotten to work with. So there is that.

I do find it troublesome to hear about anecdotes about the school. Perhaps it is bad apples, perhaps it is more systematic. Or perhaps things have gotten worse in the past couple of years. Whatever it is, it would be good to address these problems in a targeted fashion instead of a lottery. At least to me, I have found that many TJ students are solid contributors to society and the STEM profession. They are also of integrity and highly intelligent.

Agreed ..