This is a blue state bug (for now at least)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

maybe density isn't the solution to all our problems.

I’m lost. Who was it who said “density is the solution to all our problems”?

I thought the question was an unintentional joke. It certainly made me laugh. "Density" is definitely the problem.

It wasn’t a problem in South Korea. Seoul is twice as dense as NYC.

Try again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you look around the US, where are the deaths?

Let's look at the top 20 states in terms of deaths per 100k people.

LA, MI, PA. IN, GA, and MS.

Infection rates?

LA, MI, PA, SD, GA, IN, and MS.

Now maybe the governors of TN/SC/GA/FL opening too soon might lead to more outbreaks like the one around Albany NY or Rapid City SD, but as of now? It's the red states doing better on average.

TX is barely getting hit, with an infection rate 1/4 that of the national average and a death rate 1/10th the national average.

FL? Infection rate about half and a death rate about a third.

GA? Infection rate about two-thirds and a death rate about half.

What will the rejoinder be if TN, FL, GA, and SC re-open without massive amounts of illness and death by the end of May?

I mean I'm smart enough to realize it's the 2nd or 3rd inning of a 9 inning game, but come on, facts are facts right now. The red states are just doing better now.

I'm tired of hearing what a great job Governor Cuomo is doing. From where I can see it, he's presiding over infection rates TWICE that of Lombardy, and death rates that are approaching Lombardy. THAT's the model of our response right now?

I'd rather hear from Inslee, Newsome, or Brown (Oregon Gov). They seem to, well, actually be succeeding. The Northeast - and I include Maryland in this - needs to just stop telling red states what to do. They've failed to stop the virus, and to stop the deaths. Maybe the governors of MN or NM, too, they seem to be leading a decent blue state response to this virus.

This virus isn't some liberal avenger, punishing the dumb Trumpies for their dumb choices.

Either from density or from dumb luck, the blue states are getting slammed and the red states getting spared.

If it's density, maybe density isn't the solution to all our problems.

What obviously is missing here is facts. The virus obviously did not reach all states at the same time or to the same extent. But we do know the virus started in China and quickly found its way to a few US cities, plus random assisted living or nursing homes and a few random smaller towns. You are relying on the false assumption that it will never each your favorite state or town. That simply is not true. What is true is that the lockdowns in CA, NY and elsewhere and the rapid decline in US travel have dramatically reduced the spread of the virus. So, NY and CA are suffering for the benefit of all. The fake "pro-life" crowd misses the point, again. Orange Man's biggest failure is the lack of adequate testing across the country. We need more testing that is accurate and broadly done. Testing provides better info that can be fed into decision making about all sorts of things, including re-opening. If there were better and more extensive testing, you could make better guesses on the scope of the virus in a given state, and adopt an aggressive testing, tracing and isolation approach along with reopening.

OP stated the facts, while you are making stuff up.

Drop the paranoia. Analyze the facts.

Your understanding of the facts and the nature of this threat is appalling. But I will die knowing that I did not vote for President who saw more Americans die from the virus than died in the Vietnam War, in part to his basic incompetence. You perhaps view him as a successful businessman. What an illusion?

Hmmm.

Did you vote for the President who saw several HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Americans die of opioids without moving a finger?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

maybe density isn't the solution to all our problems.

I’m lost. Who was it who said “density is the solution to all our problems”?

I thought the question was an unintentional joke. It certainly made me laugh. "Density" is definitely the problem.

It wasn’t a problem in South Korea. Seoul is twice as dense as NYC.

Try again.

The national government of SK provided abundant tests to localities. Our national head of government steals PPE to force localities to bid and has lied about tests and refused tests from another country (Germany).

Why are you motivated to lie? I don’t understand your point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:maybe density isn't the solution to all our problems.

Some of the places with the greatest population density on the planet are handling this better. Density isn't the issue. Dense-ity is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Find a chart showing testing rates. Almost invariably, the states with lower infection rates also have lower testing rates. They likely have much wider infections than they understand but prefer to keep their heads in the sand.

Here is a site with charts. Seems to be fairly up-to-date.

https://www.politico.com/interactives/2020/coronavirus-testing-by-state-chart-of-new-cases/

If you look at testing rates and compare to population %, many of the states with lower infection rates are doing a pretty damn good job of testing.

No one in the US is doing a good job of testing. Compare per-capita testing to just about anywhere on the planet. The US is a failure right now on that front.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My guess is that Kemp wants to re-open to force a choice on the employees: (1) get your butt back to work or (2) don't come into work which will be recorded as quitting your job and therefore you don't get unemployment benefits.

He's a sneaky bastard. Always follow the money.

It is also about landlords being able to force rents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would like my point about lionizing Cuomo and Whitmer too early to stand, though. Their actions during the outbreak WILL be scrutinized, and it seems Whitmer's been a smidge more arbitrary about what is and isn't allowed during her states's shutdown (don't get me wrong, there's been some conservatives trying to make her look bad, but there is enough there there.)

Based on what? The restrictions in MI are far less than OH or MD. She is getting castigated as a political play by the right wing echo chamber.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First— site your data?

Second, LA, MS, SD— not blue states

Third, the Republican governor of MD has no power to make a governor of a Southern State do anything. But, he is an R governor.

Fourth— About Texas... https://www.texasobserver.org/east-texas-coronavirus-chicken/

And Jeff’s right. It’s easy to declare your state CV free if you don’t test anyone.

And Kemp lost me at because he’s a moron. If you think it’s time to reopen, even Trump says do it in phases. Starting with hair salons, Massages, tattoo parlors, bowling alleys and movie theaters? He is literaly starting with the least essential, most likely to cause a mass outbreak places.

Kemp starting with least essential businesses where employees are predominantly working class and people of color. He is not opening white collar (and people) businesses. He doesn't want to raise taxes to pay unemployment so he is forcing those who are less able to go back to businesses most likely to end up as vectors for transmission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

maybe density isn't the solution to all our problems.

I’m lost. Who was it who said “density is the solution to all our problems”?

I thought the question was an unintentional joke. It certainly made me laugh. "Density" is definitely the problem.

It wasn’t a problem in South Korea. Seoul is twice as dense as NYC.

Try again.

(hint: population is not the only thing that can be "dense")

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would like my point about lionizing Cuomo and Whitmer too early to stand, though. Their actions during the outbreak WILL be scrutinized, and it seems Whitmer's been a smidge more arbitrary about what is and isn't allowed during her states's shutdown (don't get me wrong, there's been some conservatives trying to make her look bad, but there is enough there there.)

No. Whitmer hasn’t been extra arbitrary or strict. Ohio has been possibly more restrictive, but you didn’t see LIBERATE OHIO on Trump’s Twitter feed.
Her state exploded, and she did what was needed. They need to stop whining about boats and seeds. It’s not even the time of year for that stuff.
- Ohioan

She was very arbitrary.
Requiring that items within a store that is open remain off-limits for purchase?
Not allowing residents to travel within the state between homes?

Where is the science in any of that?

Social distancing. Period. People were hording stores for unnecessary items and not practicing social distancing, thus putting employees and customers at risk. She didn't ban sales of anything. She asked the stores to close off tight areas and to develop plans, like we have in DC now, where one has to wear a mask, and certain numbers are allowed into retail spaces based on person/sq ft. It is absolute propaganda, that you are repeating, that suggests she did anything more restrictive than other states. If fact, it would be a flat out lie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would like my point about lionizing Cuomo and Whitmer too early to stand, though. Their actions during the outbreak WILL be scrutinized, and it seems Whitmer's been a smidge more arbitrary about what is and isn't allowed during her states's shutdown (don't get me wrong, there's been some conservatives trying to make her look bad, but there is enough there there.)

No. Whitmer hasn’t been extra arbitrary or strict. Ohio has been possibly more restrictive, but you didn’t see LIBERATE OHIO on Trump’s Twitter feed.
Her state exploded, and she did what was needed. They need to stop whining about boats and seeds. It’s not even the time of year for that stuff.
- Ohioan

She was very arbitrary.
Requiring that items within a store that is open remain off-limits for purchase?
Not allowing residents to travel within the state between homes?

Where is the science in any of that?

The only science we have is social distancing and locking down.
Infected people traveling to other locations and spreading infection isn’t a controversial idea. If DeWine had been staring down similar numbers, he would have tightened up even more. It’s the only tool they have.

People going from one home to another home? This is not exactly "other locations."
Then, there is the whole, "You can go kayaking or canoeing but no motor boats." What is that rationale?
And, why cordon off areas in stores that are open?
Yes, it's arbitrary.

She didn't order stores to cordon off areas. She asked stores to be mindful of tight spaces where social distancing wasn't possible. It is snowing in Michigan right now. No one is motor boating. But when they are, that is putting a lot of people into a boat, a tight space - it also usually requires docksmen and other secondary support that is totally excessive right now. A single person on a kayak or two people who live together in a canoe doesn't have impact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Michigan has a HUGE 2nd home population, both among natives and people from out-of-state. These 2nd homes are in remote parts of the state with few hospital beds, even fewer doctors, and not enough food to feed a swelling off-season population. Whitmer protected the lives of those rural full time residents by banning the 2nd home owners. Those fulltime rural folks do NOT want the seasonal home owners arriving - the Mayors of the small towns asked Whitmer to keep them out!

The only people complaining about this are the wealthy conservatives who live downstate and showed up to those protests in their $75K SUVs and luxury pick-up trucks. Asses.

So, Whitmer made it unlawful for people to go to their own homes. Got it.
And, it's ok for them to travel north to visit a state park, but not their own home? Arbitrary.

If you are in DE or the MD shore, you know the local mayors and leaders, as well as the Governors or MD and DE are asking people who OWN houses in DE and MD coastal areas NOT to go there. It is the same thing. Yet no one is suggesting to LIBERATE MD or LIBERATE DE. Same with martha's Vineyard and nantucket, w/r to MA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would like my point about lionizing Cuomo and Whitmer too early to stand, though. Their actions during the outbreak WILL be scrutinized, and it seems Whitmer's been a smidge more arbitrary about what is and isn't allowed during her states's shutdown (don't get me wrong, there's been some conservatives trying to make her look bad, but there is enough there there.)

No. Whitmer hasn’t been extra arbitrary or strict. Ohio has been possibly more restrictive, but you didn’t see LIBERATE OHIO on Trump’s Twitter feed.
Her state exploded, and she did what was needed. They need to stop whining about boats and seeds. It’s not even the time of year for that stuff.
- Ohioan

She was very arbitrary.
Requiring that items within a store that is open remain off-limits for purchase?
Not allowing residents to travel within the state between homes?

Where is the science in any of that?

The only science we have is social distancing and locking down.
Infected people traveling to other locations and spreading infection isn’t a controversial idea. If DeWine had been staring down similar numbers, he would have tightened up even more. It’s the only tool they have.

People going from one home to another home? This is not exactly "other locations."
Then, there is the whole, "You can go kayaking or canoeing but no motor boats." What is that rationale?
And, why cordon off areas in stores that are open?
Yes, it's arbitrary.

She didn't order stores to cordon off areas. She asked stores to be mindful of tight spaces where social distancing wasn't possible. It is snowing in Michigan right now. No one is motor boating. But when they are, that is putting a lot of people into a boat, a tight space - it also usually requires docksmen and other secondary support that is totally excessive right now. A single person on a kayak or two people who live together in a canoe doesn't have impact.

She did. See executive order, item 11 (d) (2):

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309,7-387-90499_90705-525182--,00.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Michigan has a HUGE 2nd home population, both among natives and people from out-of-state. These 2nd homes are in remote parts of the state with few hospital beds, even fewer doctors, and not enough food to feed a swelling off-season population. Whitmer protected the lives of those rural full time residents by banning the 2nd home owners. Those fulltime rural folks do NOT want the seasonal home owners arriving - the Mayors of the small towns asked Whitmer to keep them out!

The only people complaining about this are the wealthy conservatives who live downstate and showed up to those protests in their $75K SUVs and luxury pick-up trucks. Asses.

So, Whitmer made it unlawful for people to go to their own homes. Got it.
And, it's ok for them to travel north to visit a state park, but not their own home? Arbitrary.

Of course, there is some arbitrariness here. Figuring out what businesses should stay open and on what conditions is nothing more than a serious of tough decisions. I no doubt would disagree with whatever decisions you would make, and I no doubt would call your decisions arbitrary and unfair. Get a life. A few Governors are working hard to make these tough decisions, including in OH, MD, MI, CA, NY, etc.

And, when the decisions are arbitrary and unable to be justified, as Whitmer's are, then the people who are being asked to conform to these mandates question them and demand explanation.
This is precisely what has happened.
And, then her decision to allow a democratic organization to collect tracing information on others was another huge misstep. She reversed that after she was caught.

They aren't arbitrary and they have been justified and explained. You are just falling for the right wing echo chamber and refuse to understand the big picture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would like my point about lionizing Cuomo and Whitmer too early to stand, though. Their actions during the outbreak WILL be scrutinized, and it seems Whitmer's been a smidge more arbitrary about what is and isn't allowed during her states's shutdown (don't get me wrong, there's been some conservatives trying to make her look bad, but there is enough there there.)

Based on what? The restrictions in MI are far less than OH or MD. She is getting castigated as a political play by the right wing echo chamber.

This. Thank you.