Want a fourth but - money

[Anonymous]

DH earns 900k and I don’t want to have three, let alone four. Sure we can afford three but then we will have to cut back on our lifestyle. I like not having to think about budgeting or signing up my kids for whatever extracurricular they fancy. Or putting money away for an emergency and retirement and college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love is infinite. However time and money are finite. Whatever you have to give to the fourth will take away from the other three.

Not quite. And not really a money issue when your HHI is $500.

$500 doesn’t cut it with tuition. My niece was diagnosed with severe dyslexia. Her elementary school alone is $52K a year. 500k a year, minus mortgage, retirement savings, taxes, healthcare, tuition and extracurricular times 3, leaves very little left over

Yes, it does. We have a SN child and we have paid private plus private therapies and extracurriculars (4 days a week) on $150K (and less some years). You live in a modest house, you drive old cars and you aren't taking many vacations. At $500K if it doesn't cut it and they cannot pay $52K for a private school, their spending is very off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH earns 900k and I don’t want to have three, let alone four. Sure we can afford three but then we will have to cut back on our lifestyle. I like not having to think about budgeting or signing up my kids for whatever extracurricular they fancy. Or putting money away for an emergency and retirement and college.

Your husband earns almost a million a year and one extra child would really be an issue with college and extracurriculars? We make under $200K and comfortably pay for two expensive extracurriculars a year per child, save for college and retirement and your are struggling at that income. Is that a brag or what? Bizarre.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH earns 900k and I don’t want to have three, let alone four. Sure we can afford three but then we will have to cut back on our lifestyle. I like not having to think about budgeting or signing up my kids for whatever extracurricular they fancy. Or putting money away for an emergency and retirement and college.

Can you explain how adding just one more kid would impact your lifestyle when your HHI is $900k? Exactly how expensive are your kids' extracurricular activities? Practically speaking, how would another kid impact saving for retirement? The actual costs of food, clothing, activities, etc. simply aren't going to impact your budget. I get college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do a little googling on the environment. Stop being selfish

Seriously. Cannot believe all the threads about 3 or 4 kids lately

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really want a fourth but my husband is less convinced. He is more focused on the financial aspect of another kid, which I realize is not insignificant. We make around 500k so we could afford another kid but in his eyes, it would detract from the lifestyle we could provide for the three we have right now. With our three, we can afford to fully pay for their educations, do some pretty cool travel, let them go to whatever camps or extracurricular activities they want, etc. etc.

The point is, we don't really have to worry about money right now but we might after having a fourth.

Is that a good reason not to have a child you want?

These seem like fantastic reasons to stick with three. Don’t hear any great reasons for a fourth. Also, if you work or plan to return to work at some point, it will be more difficult with four, in terms of juggling and paying for activities like sports, sleepaway camps, vacations, etc.

Their HHI is $500k. There's no risk of struggling to pay for sports, camp, vacations, etc. None.

dp But there is only so much time in a day. Will you be able to give your child the emotional and physical presence? To me, that is just as important as financial. Plus, as someone else put it if one person says no than you shouldn't go for it. Sorry! Your kids are still little and you basically have a baby right now. Just enjoy your family. Don't have a fourth just because your friends have four.

Nobody has 4 bc their friends do.

And contrary to popular belief in dcumlandia, good parents most certainly can provide their kids with emotional and physical presence...even when they have 4. As a parent of 4, I've observed many parents who clearly stopped at 2 because they weren't interested in parenting. These are the parents who prioritize their hobbies (golf, biking, whatever) and social lives. Their FB feed supports the theory.

Yeah, I have a friend who I am completely convinced has her kids as an "accessory"...the only effort she focuses on them is cute 'gramming and dressing up in matching outfits, but she definitely stashes the kids with the nanny as much as possible to go to her many social commitments. The type of SAHM who has a part0time nanny, sends the kids to day camp, and puts them in as close to full day preschool as possible at age 2. Then complains that they can't afford private school once they hit K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you are a little hooked on the pregnancy/baby stage. Can you see yourself not in this role anymore? Do you feel like you might end up wanting 5 if you do have 4? I don’t think your husband’s reluctance is money-based. That’s a ton of kids close in age.

No I don't want 5.

Families with 4 kids is really common in the suburbs.

Suburbs of Salt Lake City, maybe.

I live inRockville and I know tons of 3 and 4 kid families. It’s very common.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a PITA to deal with travel and emergencies with 4. I have 3, my sister has 5. We have considered a 4th many times, but as our youngest gets older (she’s 2.5), we’re more and more at peace with “only” 3. It’s already difficult with vacation planning, getting a suite instead of a regular hotel room (or getting two separate rooms). Getting an Uber or regular taxi in a pinch is more difficult. It’s still doable, but it’s just more, and not in a fun way. These reasons alone may not be enough to nix having a 4th, but there examples of many inconveniences that I certainly didn’t think about when we were making #3.

Reading your post, though, OP, the only reason you need is that DH isn’t on board. It’s not that his feelings are more important than yours, it’s that you both can deal with your resentment as adults, but if he’s the one that gets the resentment, in this scenario, there’s another child that has to deal with it.

I'm not sure it's wise to base the decision on inconveniences like uber or hotel rooms...particularly with a HHI of $500k.

We have 4 kids. We travel a lot, and we either rent a suite, villa or two hotel rooms. And we've never used uber (rent a car, hire a driver, get a minivan/SUV taxi, etc.). And our HHI is *only* $250ish.

I cannot imagine 4 kids in this area on that income. We have that income and I don't get how you pay for college and to me to have kids today and not pay on that kind of income is very selfish.

Really, you can’t imagine? Can you not manage your finances well? Or did you take out too large of a mortgage? This is not a hard task on $250k. You save, spend wisely, and are not lavish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a PITA to deal with travel and emergencies with 4. I have 3, my sister has 5. We have considered a 4th many times, but as our youngest gets older (she’s 2.5), we’re more and more at peace with “only” 3. It’s already difficult with vacation planning, getting a suite instead of a regular hotel room (or getting two separate rooms). Getting an Uber or regular taxi in a pinch is more difficult. It’s still doable, but it’s just more, and not in a fun way. These reasons alone may not be enough to nix having a 4th, but there examples of many inconveniences that I certainly didn’t think about when we were making #3.

Reading your post, though, OP, the only reason you need is that DH isn’t on board. It’s not that his feelings are more important than yours, it’s that you both can deal with your resentment as adults, but if he’s the one that gets the resentment, in this scenario, there’s another child that has to deal with it.

I'm not sure it's wise to base the decision on inconveniences like uber or hotel rooms...particularly with a HHI of $500k.

We have 4 kids. We travel a lot, and we either rent a suite, villa or two hotel rooms. And we've never used uber (rent a car, hire a driver, get a minivan/SUV taxi, etc.). And our HHI is *only* $250ish.

I cannot imagine 4 kids in this area on that income. We have that income and I don't get how you pay for college and to me to have kids today and not pay on that kind of income is very selfish.

Really, you can’t imagine? Can you not manage your finances well? Or did you take out too large of a mortgage? This is not a hard task on $250k. You save, spend wisely, and are not lavish.

We manage very well but how do you pay for 4 kids/cash/no loans for college (and for us, graduate school) even on $250 and save and do extra curricular but we also have a SN child who requires a lot of therapies. We don't live lavishly. My car is 15 years old and on a good day starts. We have an under $400K house. We could easily manage day to day but we wouldn't have the college funds we have, nor have comfortably private paid for all the therapies we have done. I think its selfish to have kids and not fully pay for college in less you cannot afford it. If you make $125K+ there is no excuse not to pay beyond health, job loss or other major reasons.

On $250K, how do you easily save $100-150k per child for a state school and pay for activities and other stuff (or you simply don't do them).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your husband doesn't want another kid. Period.

But don't be fooled by the money argument. You make $500k. Another kid won't be a financial burden. I mean, you aren't falling for that argument, are you?

My SIL often laments the fact that they "couldn't afford" a third kid. They live in a $2 million professionally decorated home in a desirable area. Kids in top private prep schools. Country club. Multiple vacations each year (think: Tuscany, Greece, Japan, 4 Seasons Nevis, etc). She's a SAHM who plays tennis at the club and hasn't worked since she got pregnant. I'm sure her husband earns far more than $500k, yet he somehow managed to convince her they couldn't afford a third. Weird.

+1
your husband does not want another kid and is telling you that it's about money because it sounds "rational". not really (at your income anyway), but it's just an excuse anyway.

[Anonymous]

OP, your husband is not saying yes. So .. a "no" always wins. I wouldn't even consider it a money issue. I'm usually extremely saddened and confused by people who make having children, a decision based on money -- but thats for 1 or 2. I do think 3, 4 or more, and anything less than full enthusiasm means "no". Accept it. Continuing to have a personal issue with his "no" will ruin the wonderful family that you could be enjoying right in front of you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do a little googling on the environment. Stop being selfish

Can you please go over to the travel forum, the home improvement forum, or the politics forum?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a PITA to deal with travel and emergencies with 4. I have 3, my sister has 5. We have considered a 4th many times, but as our youngest gets older (she’s 2.5), we’re more and more at peace with “only” 3. It’s already difficult with vacation planning, getting a suite instead of a regular hotel room (or getting two separate rooms). Getting an Uber or regular taxi in a pinch is more difficult. It’s still doable, but it’s just more, and not in a fun way. These reasons alone may not be enough to nix having a 4th, but there examples of many inconveniences that I certainly didn’t think about when we were making #3.

Reading your post, though, OP, the only reason you need is that DH isn’t on board. It’s not that his feelings are more important than yours, it’s that you both can deal with your resentment as adults, but if he’s the one that gets the resentment, in this scenario, there’s another child that has to deal with it.

I'm not sure it's wise to base the decision on inconveniences like uber or hotel rooms...particularly with a HHI of $500k.

We have 4 kids. We travel a lot, and we either rent a suite, villa or two hotel rooms. And we've never used uber (rent a car, hire a driver, get a minivan/SUV taxi, etc.). And our HHI is *only* $250ish.

I cannot imagine 4 kids in this area on that income. We have that income and I don't get how you pay for college and to me to have kids today and not pay on that kind of income is very selfish.

?

The mortgage on our 5 bedroom colonial in MoCo is very low since we got lucky with the market when we traded up. (Lived frugally and saved for a big down payment on our starter home; worked since HS and during college, so we both had little nest eggs and investments starting young).

Our kids go to excellent public schools. (Zero tuition)

We never really had childcare costs since the grandparents were local (just typical 1/2 day nursery school and pre-k).

We didn't have student loans (parents paid for college, spouse paid for grad school for the other spouse---married younger than most in dcumlandia) and we have no debt other than the super low mortgage and one modest car payment.

One of us has a traditional pension; the other has a quasi pension. Plus, we're saving for retirement. Lots of investments.

One of us has a union/government type job, so our family has Cadillac health insurance. (Think: no deductible, $10 copays, zero costs to have a baby or surgery, prescriptions are $8, etc.).

We will inherit some money, and the grandparents are contributing to college savings. We went to state schools, and I hope our kids realize there's no need to spend $200k+ on college when UMCP still costs pennies comparatively speaking.

I think it's interesting that you assumed our financial situation is the same as yours simply based on HHI.

We travel. We have fun. The kids do a lot of activities and sports. We're frugal, but we have nice stuff. We don't worry about money.

There's really no need for you to believe we're selfish for bringing 4 kids into the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a PITA to deal with travel and emergencies with 4. I have 3, my sister has 5. We have considered a 4th many times, but as our youngest gets older (she’s 2.5), we’re more and more at peace with “only” 3. It’s already difficult with vacation planning, getting a suite instead of a regular hotel room (or getting two separate rooms). Getting an Uber or regular taxi in a pinch is more difficult. It’s still doable, but it’s just more, and not in a fun way. These reasons alone may not be enough to nix having a 4th, but there examples of many inconveniences that I certainly didn’t think about when we were making #3.

Reading your post, though, OP, the only reason you need is that DH isn’t on board. It’s not that his feelings are more important than yours, it’s that you both can deal with your resentment as adults, but if he’s the one that gets the resentment, in this scenario, there’s another child that has to deal with it.

I'm not sure it's wise to base the decision on inconveniences like uber or hotel rooms...particularly with a HHI of $500k.

We have 4 kids. We travel a lot, and we either rent a suite, villa or two hotel rooms. And we've never used uber (rent a car, hire a driver, get a minivan/SUV taxi, etc.). And our HHI is *only* $250ish.

I cannot imagine 4 kids in this area on that income. We have that income and I don't get how you pay for college and to me to have kids today and not pay on that kind of income is very selfish.

?

The mortgage on our 5 bedroom colonial in MoCo is very low since we got lucky with the market when we traded up. (Lived frugally and saved for a big down payment on our starter home; worked since HS and during college, so we both had little nest eggs and investments starting young).

Our kids go to excellent public schools. (Zero tuition)

We never really had childcare costs since the grandparents were local (just typical 1/2 day nursery school and pre-k).

We didn't have student loans (parents paid for college, spouse paid for grad school for the other spouse---married younger than most in dcumlandia) and we have no debt other than the super low mortgage and one modest car payment.

One of us has a traditional pension; the other has a quasi pension. Plus, we're saving for retirement. Lots of investments.

One of us has a union/government type job, so our family has Cadillac health insurance. (Think: no deductible, $10 copays, zero costs to have a baby or surgery, prescriptions are $8, etc.).

We will inherit some money, and the grandparents are contributing to college savings. We went to state schools, and I hope our kids realize there's no need to spend $200k+ on college when UMCP still costs pennies comparatively speaking.

I think it's interesting that you assumed our financial situation is the same as yours simply based on HHI.

We travel. We have fun. The kids do a lot of activities and sports. We're frugal, but we have nice stuff. We don't worry about money.

There's really no need for you to believe we're selfish for bringing 4 kids into the world.

But, can you pay cash for 4 kids at UMD. If you didn't do the prepaid, the cost is still easily $100-130K per child depending on major, where they live, etc. We did the prepaid so its been long paid for and have a 529 for room and board, but I still cannot see doing it with 4 kids. But, since we don't have cash in hand, I'm not planning for inheritance or grandparents helping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a PITA to deal with travel and emergencies with 4. I have 3, my sister has 5. We have considered a 4th many times, but as our youngest gets older (she’s 2.5), we’re more and more at peace with “only” 3. It’s already difficult with vacation planning, getting a suite instead of a regular hotel room (or getting two separate rooms). Getting an Uber or regular taxi in a pinch is more difficult. It’s still doable, but it’s just more, and not in a fun way. These reasons alone may not be enough to nix having a 4th, but there examples of many inconveniences that I certainly didn’t think about when we were making #3.

Reading your post, though, OP, the only reason you need is that DH isn’t on board. It’s not that his feelings are more important than yours, it’s that you both can deal with your resentment as adults, but if he’s the one that gets the resentment, in this scenario, there’s another child that has to deal with it.

I'm not sure it's wise to base the decision on inconveniences like uber or hotel rooms...particularly with a HHI of $500k.

We have 4 kids. We travel a lot, and we either rent a suite, villa or two hotel rooms. And we've never used uber (rent a car, hire a driver, get a minivan/SUV taxi, etc.). And our HHI is *only* $250ish.

I cannot imagine 4 kids in this area on that income. We have that income and I don't get how you pay for college and to me to have kids today and not pay on that kind of income is very selfish.

?

The mortgage on our 5 bedroom colonial in MoCo is very low since we got lucky with the market when we traded up. (Lived frugally and saved for a big down payment on our starter home; worked since HS and during college, so we both had little nest eggs and investments starting young).

Our kids go to excellent public schools. (Zero tuition)

We never really had childcare costs since the grandparents were local (just typical 1/2 day nursery school and pre-k).

We didn't have student loans (parents paid for college, spouse paid for grad school for the other spouse---married younger than most in dcumlandia) and we have no debt other than the super low mortgage and one modest car payment.

One of us has a traditional pension; the other has a quasi pension. Plus, we're saving for retirement. Lots of investments.

One of us has a union/government type job, so our family has Cadillac health insurance. (Think: no deductible, $10 copays, zero costs to have a baby or surgery, prescriptions are $8, etc.).

We will inherit some money, and the grandparents are contributing to college savings. We went to state schools, and I hope our kids realize there's no need to spend $200k+ on college when UMCP still costs pennies comparatively speaking.

I think it's interesting that you assumed our financial situation is the same as yours simply based on HHI.

We travel. We have fun. The kids do a lot of activities and sports. We're frugal, but we have nice stuff. We don't worry about money.

There's really no need for you to believe we're selfish for bringing 4 kids into the world.

But, can you pay cash for 4 kids at UMD. If you didn't do the prepaid, the cost is still easily $100-130K per child depending on major, where they live, etc. We did the prepaid so its been long paid for and have a 529 for room and board, but I still cannot see doing it with 4 kids. But, since we don't have cash in hand, I'm not planning for inheritance or grandparents helping.

Just out of curiosity, what percentage of the population do you feel should have children at all? If the average income for a family of 3 is $85k, should any of the bottom half of that average (making less than $85k) have had that first child at all? What percentage should have a second child? The top 20%, top 10%? Less?