Toddler death on a cruise ship. So tragic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s actually shocking how many people die or go missing from cruise ships. You couldn’t pay me enough to get on one and I definitely would not take a small child on one.

You could die in a wreck on the way to a grocery store. I’ve been on many cruises, with lots of little children....including my own. This was a tragic accident.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The story has changed at least three times. Now the parents are blaming the cruise ship.

Poor baby!

This whole thing is just godawful. I can't imagine how terrible the parents and grandparents feel, and I'm sure it helps to have someone to blame. That said, the idea that the children's play area was on the top-most level of the ship and had a glass-free opening that a kid could climb to (not what happened here, I'm aware, but if grandpa lifted her that high I'm imagining that a bigger kid could also climb that high) seems incredibly unsafe. I'd be interested to see a picture of this area.

Same. I just can’t picture the scene at all. Anyone have an example of what the railing looks like?

The level of the window that was open looks lower than I expected - not even waist high. I'm not saying grandpa wasn't also to blame but I'm seriously surprised another kid hasn't gotten hurt with an attractive nuisance like that right there.

The window looks to be about chest height - mid bicep or so. At some point, the parent/guardian has to take responsibility and not be negligent. It's completely tragic, but no measure is going to be idiot (or lapse in judgment, unintentional error) proof.

No, the only bicep it comes to is the woman about 12 feet away from the wall with her back to the camera, that's an optical illusion because she's so far from the wall. The guy sitting in the chair facing to the left is the closest to the window - you can see if he stands up the middle window won't come to his waist.

No, it's pretty high up - look at the poles relative to the window heights, and how people are standing. The windows are obviously chest-height.

There's a handrail at the bottom of the window. Those aren't placed at chest-height, they're at roughly hip height. I'm not sure what poles and how people are standing is supposed to mean in this context - you can see from the guy sitting down right in front of the window that the middle window is not chest high to a standing person, unless that guy is 11 feet tall.

If the handrail is lower than waist height, then their heads would be hitting the ceiling. Shoulders would be at the top of the middle windows, and their heads/necks into the top (smaller) window. Seriously--your depth perception is not accurate at all. There are lots of places where hand rails are placed at chest height, or higher - many bridges, for one.

[Anonymous]

People are stupid and money grubbing.

[Anonymous]

Poor Grandpa. Even if he did make a terrible mistake, he is in for such a rough future. I really feel for him and wish him peace. Sweet baby girl.

[Anonymous]

These windows are also tinted, so it’s impossible to not be able to tell one is open. I’m mortified that the family has already employed a lawyer. This incident happened three days ago, the child probably hadn’t been buried yet and they are all about the lawsuit. That I hope they lose and have to pay the cruise line lawyer fees. It’s a tragic incident but 100% the fault of the grandfather. I wish people would step up and take responsibility for their actions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The story has changed at least three times. Now the parents are blaming the cruise ship.

Poor baby!

This whole thing is just godawful. I can't imagine how terrible the parents and grandparents feel, and I'm sure it helps to have someone to blame. That said, the idea that the children's play area was on the top-most level of the ship and had a glass-free opening that a kid could climb to (not what happened here, I'm aware, but if grandpa lifted her that high I'm imagining that a bigger kid could also climb that high) seems incredibly unsafe. I'd be interested to see a picture of this area.

Same. I just can’t picture the scene at all. Anyone have an example of what the railing looks like?

The level of the window that was open looks lower than I expected - not even waist high. I'm not saying grandpa wasn't also to blame but I'm seriously surprised another kid hasn't gotten hurt with an attractive nuisance like that right there.

The window looks to be about chest height - mid bicep or so. At some point, the parent/guardian has to take responsibility and not be negligent. It's completely tragic, but no measure is going to be idiot (or lapse in judgment, unintentional error) proof.

No, the only bicep it comes to is the woman about 12 feet away from the wall with her back to the camera, that's an optical illusion because she's so far from the wall. The guy sitting in the chair facing to the left is the closest to the window - you can see if he stands up the middle window won't come to his waist.

No, it's pretty high up - look at the poles relative to the window heights, and how people are standing. The windows are obviously chest-height.

There's a handrail at the bottom of the window. Those aren't placed at chest-height, they're at roughly hip height. I'm not sure what poles and how people are standing is supposed to mean in this context - you can see from the guy sitting down right in front of the window that the middle window is not chest high to a standing person, unless that guy is 11 feet tall.

If the handrail is lower than waist height, then their heads would be hitting the ceiling. Shoulders would be at the top of the middle windows, and their heads/necks into the top (smaller) window. Seriously--your depth perception is not accurate at all. There are lots of places where hand rails are placed at chest height, or higher - many bridges, for one.

There is something very strange going on in this exchange because I have the exact same reaction to your posts. If the hip is at the bottom of the middle window, their heads would smash the ceiling? No, that means the bottom window is just about 3 feet high, the middle window tops out at about 6 feet, and the top of the top window is around 9', give or take some inches for "about hip high" being possibly not exactly 36", but maybe 38ish. There's another 6-8" above the top of the top window, and then the ceiling. Which is exactly as tall as that area looks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These windows are also tinted, so it’s impossible to not be able to tell one is open. I’m mortified that the family has already employed a lawyer. This incident happened three days ago, the child probably hadn’t been buried yet and they are all about the lawsuit. That I hope they lose and have to pay the cruise line lawyer fees. It’s a tragic incident but 100% the fault of the grandfather. I wish people would step up and take responsibility for their actions.

In this type of situation they were smart to get one. No one on DCUM has all the facts but it is an almost certainty that the cruise ship will be taking steps to position themselves as inoculated from liability in these early days. I would not trust myself, in a state of what would have to be unimaginable grief, to try to deal with the legal issues that I'm sure the cruise ship company is bringing up.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The story has changed at least three times. Now the parents are blaming the cruise ship.

Poor baby!

This whole thing is just godawful. I can't imagine how terrible the parents and grandparents feel, and I'm sure it helps to have someone to blame. That said, the idea that the children's play area was on the top-most level of the ship and had a glass-free opening that a kid could climb to (not what happened here, I'm aware, but if grandpa lifted her that high I'm imagining that a bigger kid could also climb that high) seems incredibly unsafe. I'd be interested to see a picture of this area.

Same. I just can’t picture the scene at all. Anyone have an example of what the railing looks like?

The level of the window that was open looks lower than I expected - not even waist high. I'm not saying grandpa wasn't also to blame but I'm seriously surprised another kid hasn't gotten hurt with an attractive nuisance like that right there.

The window looks to be about chest height - mid bicep or so. At some point, the parent/guardian has to take responsibility and not be negligent. It's completely tragic, but no measure is going to be idiot (or lapse in judgment, unintentional error) proof.

No, the only bicep it comes to is the woman about 12 feet away from the wall with her back to the camera, that's an optical illusion because she's so far from the wall. The guy sitting in the chair facing to the left is the closest to the window - you can see if he stands up the middle window won't come to his waist.

No, it's pretty high up - look at the poles relative to the window heights, and how people are standing. The windows are obviously chest-height.

There's a handrail at the bottom of the window. Those aren't placed at chest-height, they're at roughly hip height. I'm not sure what poles and how people are standing is supposed to mean in this context - you can see from the guy sitting down right in front of the window that the middle window is not chest high to a standing person, unless that guy is 11 feet tall.

If the handrail is lower than waist height, then their heads would be hitting the ceiling. Shoulders would be at the top of the middle windows, and their heads/necks into the top (smaller) window. Seriously--your depth perception is not accurate at all. There are lots of places where hand rails are placed at chest height, or higher - many bridges, for one.

There is something very strange going on in this exchange because I have the exact same reaction to your posts. If the hip is at the bottom of the middle window, their heads would smash the ceiling? No, that means the bottom window is just about 3 feet high, the middle window tops out at about 6 feet, and the top of the top window is around 9', give or take some inches for "about hip high" being possibly not exactly 36", but maybe 38ish. There's another 6-8" above the top of the top window, and then the ceiling. Which is exactly as tall as that area looks.

Look at the bald officer in the photo below. There's probably about 3 feet between the top of his head, and where the pole meets the ceiling (the same point the top of the highest window meets the ceiling). Maybe very slightly more.

If the window panes were the same height, they would each be approx 36" or a little less. But they're not - the bottom two are noticeably higher. Plus there appears to be a footstep ledge that's about 4-5". So, that makes the railing approx 45" high, which is close to chest height.

Unless you're a giant, which you may very well be.

[Anonymous]

NP here. The top window seems smaller than the other too and is at an angle. The man sitting has his head at same level as railing. The woman standing seems mid-way between floor and ceiling. If she’s 1.6 m tall, the room may be about 3m high. The two bottom windows probably come to 2.5 m and the top window to about 0.5m. This would bring the railing to about chest height.

[Anonymous]

I am reading the reports and they say that the little girl slipped out of grandfathers arms. Nowhere does it say he didn’t know there wasn’t a window. Sounds like he picked that window for a reason (no glass so better view and air) and the little girl leaned forward, and grandpa lost his grip on her. It’s so sad yet so stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The story has changed at least three times. Now the parents are blaming the cruise ship.

Poor baby!

This whole thing is just godawful. I can't imagine how terrible the parents and grandparents feel, and I'm sure it helps to have someone to blame. That said, the idea that the children's play area was on the top-most level of the ship and had a glass-free opening that a kid could climb to (not what happened here, I'm aware, but if grandpa lifted her that high I'm imagining that a bigger kid could also climb that high) seems incredibly unsafe. I'd be interested to see a picture of this area.

Same. I just can’t picture the scene at all. Anyone have an example of what the railing looks like?

The level of the window that was open looks lower than I expected - not even waist high. I'm not saying grandpa wasn't also to blame but I'm seriously surprised another kid hasn't gotten hurt with an attractive nuisance like that right there.

The window looks to be about chest height - mid bicep or so. At some point, the parent/guardian has to take responsibility and not be negligent. It's completely tragic, but no measure is going to be idiot (or lapse in judgment, unintentional error) proof.

No, the only bicep it comes to is the woman about 12 feet away from the wall with her back to the camera, that's an optical illusion because she's so far from the wall. The guy sitting in the chair facing to the left is the closest to the window - you can see if he stands up the middle window won't come to his waist.

No, it's pretty high up - look at the poles relative to the window heights, and how people are standing. The windows are obviously chest-height.

There's a handrail at the bottom of the window. Those aren't placed at chest-height, they're at roughly hip height. I'm not sure what poles and how people are standing is supposed to mean in this context - you can see from the guy sitting down right in front of the window that the middle window is not chest high to a standing person, unless that guy is 11 feet tall.

If the handrail is lower than waist height, then their heads would be hitting the ceiling. Shoulders would be at the top of the middle windows, and their heads/necks into the top (smaller) window. Seriously--your depth perception is not accurate at all. There are lots of places where hand rails are placed at chest height, or higher - many bridges, for one.

There is something very strange going on in this exchange because I have the exact same reaction to your posts. If the hip is at the bottom of the middle window, their heads would smash the ceiling? No, that means the bottom window is just about 3 feet high, the middle window tops out at about 6 feet, and the top of the top window is around 9', give or take some inches for "about hip high" being possibly not exactly 36", but maybe 38ish. There's another 6-8" above the top of the top window, and then the ceiling. Which is exactly as tall as that area looks.

Look at the bald officer in the photo below. There's probably about 3 feet between the top of his head, and where the pole meets the ceiling (the same point the top of the highest window meets the ceiling). Maybe very slightly more.

If the window panes were the same height, they would each be approx 36" or a little less. But they're not - the bottom two are noticeably higher. Plus there appears to be a footstep ledge that's about 4-5". So, that makes the railing approx 45" high, which is close to chest height.

Unless you're a giant, which you may very well be.

That bald officer, is standing about 10 feet from the pole you're trying to use as a measuring stick. And there is no footstep ledge - what are you seeing? I can't keep doing this because it's a threadjack and a half, so I'll leave it here, but I have a very hard time believing you can look at the guy sitting down in front of the windows -- the person who is the closest to the windows and so presents the best chance of relative perspective -- see where the rail is relative to his seated head, and think "yeah that's chest height." We're not going to agree here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am reading the reports and they say that the little girl slipped out of grandfathers arms. Nowhere does it say he didn’t know there wasn’t a window. Sounds like he picked that window for a reason (no glass so better view and air) and the little girl leaned forward, and grandpa lost his grip on her. It’s so sad yet so stupid.

The lawyer's account said he expected a window.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here. The top window seems smaller than the other too and is at an angle. The man sitting has his head at same level as railing. The woman standing seems mid-way between floor and ceiling. If she’s 1.6 m tall, the room may be about 3m high. The two bottom windows probably come to 2.5 m and the top window to about 0.5m. This would bring the railing to about chest height.

Metric. That's what this thread was missing!

[Anonymous]

Railing does appear to be chest height. I am heartbroken for the whole family, grandfather included, but that is some serious and tragic lack of judgment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Railing does appear to be chest height. I am heartbroken for the whole family, grandfather included, but that is some serious and tragic lack of judgment.

I believe if the picture is from 15-20 feet below the person and the railing cuts them at chest height, a picture head-on would show the railing in a lower position. I'm not a physicist, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once.