demoralized in MCPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why exactly can’t schools suspend or expel violent and dangerous students?

Special education laws and racial issues

It is well known that some parent groups such as MOCO NAACP parents council request MCPS to lower the suspension rate for student from some race groups. Because the students who get suspended won't be able to learn . This sounds plausible. But why good intention doesn't bring good result?

What a mischaracterization! The NAACP simply requests that black students be treated fairly. Teachers have biases too. It is entirely plausible that due to those biases, a teacher or staff will witness disruptive behavior from a student, but will treat that behavior differently depending on the child's race.

But I suppose if you feel that black and brown kids are inherently bad or misbehave in general, you are fine with the disproportionate suspensions for black and brown kids vs their white and Asian counterparts.

No, you made me wrong. Kids are born innocent. They grow up like this because they have parents like you.

[Anonymous]

It is well known that some parent groups such as MOCO NAACP parents council request MCPS to lower the suspension rate for student from some race groups. Because the students who get suspended won't be able to learn . This sounds plausible. But why good intention doesn't bring good result?


What a mischaracterization! The NAACP simply requests that black students be treated fairly. Teachers have biases too. It is entirely plausible that due to those biases, a teacher or staff will witness disruptive behavior from a student, but will treat that behavior differently depending on the child's race.

But I suppose if you feel that black and brown kids are inherently bad or misbehave in general, you are fine with the disproportionate suspensions for black and brown kids vs their white and Asian counterparts.

Teacher bias is real. It is also true that suspension rates will not magically line up with the demographic numbers of the school system. Suspension will be more prevalent with at risk kids living in poverty with poor home support and supervision. In MCPS the kids in those circumstances are more likely to be AA or hispanic -not because of their race but because of the poverty.

The way to handle teacher and staff bias is to implement effective anti-bias training and have an oversight group review incidents to identify bias and correct it. This requires work and admission that someone did something wrong when the group finds bias -two thinks which MCPS avoids like the plague. Instead of addressing teacher bias, the central office has decided to just not discipline kids and push racial quotas for suspensions onto the schools. If I am a principal, I'm going to ignore kids beating up other kids, selling drugs, threatening kids or teachers, or sexually harassing the girls because I need to save my suspension spots for the kid that brings a knife or gun into the school and either tries or succeeds in using it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Teacher bias is real. It is also true that suspension rates will not magically line up with the demographic numbers of the school system. Suspension will be more prevalent with at risk kids living in poverty with poor home support and supervision. In MCPS the kids in those circumstances are more likely to be AA or hispanic -not because of their race but because of the poverty.

The way to handle teacher and staff bias is to implement effective anti-bias training and have an oversight group review incidents to identify bias and correct it. This requires work and admission that someone did something wrong when the group finds bias -two thinks which MCPS avoids like the plague. Instead of addressing teacher bias, the central office has decided to just not discipline kids and push racial quotas for suspensions onto the schools. If I am a principal, I'm going to ignore kids beating up other kids, selling drugs, threatening kids or teachers, or sexually harassing the girls because I need to save my suspension spots for the kid that brings a knife or gun into the school and either tries or succeeds in using it.

Is there even such a thing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why exactly can’t schools suspend or expel violent and dangerous students?

Special education laws and racial issues

It is well known that some parent groups such as MOCO NAACP parents council request MCPS to lower the suspension rate for student from some race groups. Because the students who get suspended won't be able to learn . This sounds plausible. But why good intention doesn't bring good result?

What a mischaracterization! The NAACP simply requests that black students be treated fairly. Teachers have biases too. It is entirely plausible that due to those biases, a teacher or staff will witness disruptive behavior from a student, but will treat that behavior differently depending on the child's race.

But I suppose if you feel that black and brown kids are inherently bad or misbehave in general, you are fine with the disproportionate suspensions for black and brown kids vs their white and Asian counterparts.

No, you made me wrong. Kids are born innocent. They grow up like this because they have parents like you.

Bless your heart

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
In the case of the Damascus rape case, the parent was notified numerous times by MCPS teachers/staff regarding the child's behavioral issues. The student was basically passed around to a different school, along with the issues. Unfortunately, staff at the schools hands were tied.

I don't know the details of the Damascus rape case, but couldn't the student have been dismissed from the team (for low grades and/or behavioral issues)? If so, then I wouldn't say that the staff at the school's hands were tied.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why exactly can’t schools suspend or expel violent and dangerous students?

Special education laws and racial issues

It is well known that some parent groups such as MOCO NAACP parents council request MCPS to lower the suspension rate for student from some race groups. Because the students who get suspended won't be able to learn . This sounds plausible. But why good intention doesn't bring good result?

What a mischaracterization! The NAACP simply requests that black students be treated fairly. Teachers have biases too. It is entirely plausible that due to those biases, a teacher or staff will witness disruptive behavior from a student, but will treat that behavior differently depending on the child's race.

But I suppose if you feel that black and brown kids are inherently bad or misbehave in general, you are fine with the disproportionate suspensions for black and brown kids vs their white and Asian counterparts.

DP.. I do think our justice system is deeply racist, BUT, it is not helping *anyone* to keep these violent kids in regular school. The other students are being victimized twice -- once by the violent student and again by a school system that may have their heart in the right place, but is hurting these other kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
In the case of the Damascus rape case, the parent was notified numerous times by MCPS teachers/staff regarding the child's behavioral issues. The student was basically passed around to a different school, along with the issues. Unfortunately, staff at the schools hands were tied.

I don't know the details of the Damascus rape case, but couldn't the student have been dismissed from the team (for low grades and/or behavioral issues)? If so, then I wouldn't say that the staff at the school's hands were tied.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/damascus-high-school-locker-room-rape-defendant-moved-to-juvenile-court-for-prosecution/2019/03/21/e90ba4b0-4b6b-11e9-b79a-961983b7e0cd_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e5ed575c17e9

They gave him too many chances, but then, how many chances do you give a troubled kid? I think that's the crux of it. I don't think a one-strike and you're out system is helpful, but certainly not doing much other than "talks" wasn't helping.

His behavior did not improve, prompting Damascus head coach Eric Wallich to warn Abedi his playing days were in peril. The coach also emailed teachers at the school with his concerns.

“I get an email or a phone call almost daily about his behavior in class,” Wallich [football coach] stated to them, according to Salant. “I have spoken to him and made it clear that he could be suspended indefinitely from the football team. .?.?. It’s a shame, because this kid needs football.”

[Anonymous]

I wonder if maybe the teachers should form a protest, a walkout to protest this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why exactly can’t schools suspend or expel violent and dangerous students?

Special education laws and racial issues

It is well known that some parent groups such as MOCO NAACP parents council request MCPS to lower the suspension rate for student from some race groups. Because the students who get suspended won't be able to learn . This sounds plausible. But why good intention doesn't bring good result?

What a mischaracterization! The NAACP simply requests that black students be treated fairly. Teachers have biases too. It is entirely plausible that due to those biases, a teacher or staff will witness disruptive behavior from a student, but will treat that behavior differently depending on the child's race.

But I suppose if you feel that black and brown kids are inherently bad or misbehave in general, you are fine with the disproportionate suspensions for black and brown kids vs their white and Asian counterparts.

DP.. I do think our justice system is deeply racist, BUT, it is not helping *anyone* to keep these violent kids in regular school. The other students are being victimized twice -- once by the violent student and again by a school system that may have their heart in the right place, but is hurting these other kids.

I don't believe that anyone thinks that violent kids should be kept in school, no matter their race.

But when you have kids getting suspended for disrespect or insubordination, and those kids are disproportionately black and brown, then I believe there is a good reason for Black and Brown parents to be concerned about biases on behalf of teachers, principles and staff. And THAT is what the NAACP is trying to address.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why exactly can’t schools suspend or expel violent and dangerous students?

Special education laws and racial issues

It is well known that some parent groups such as MOCO NAACP parents council request MCPS to lower the suspension rate for student from some race groups. Because the students who get suspended won't be able to learn . This sounds plausible. But why good intention doesn't bring good result?

What a mischaracterization! The NAACP simply requests that black students be treated fairly. Teachers have biases too. It is entirely plausible that due to those biases, a teacher or staff will witness disruptive behavior from a student, but will treat that behavior differently depending on the child's race.

But I suppose if you feel that black and brown kids are inherently bad or misbehave in general, you are fine with the disproportionate suspensions for black and brown kids vs their white and Asian counterparts.

DP.. I do think our justice system is deeply racist, BUT, it is not helping *anyone* to keep these violent kids in regular school. The other students are being victimized twice -- once by the violent student and again by a school system that may have their heart in the right place, but is hurting these other kids.

I don't believe that anyone thinks that violent kids should be kept in school, no matter their race.

But when you have kids getting suspended for disrespect or insubordination, and those kids are disproportionately black and brown, then I believe there is a good reason for Black and Brown parents to be concerned about biases on behalf of teachers, principles and staff. And THAT is what the NAACP is trying to address.

Yes, they are perfectly responsible parents who engage well in disciplining their little angels.
It's all teacher and the society's fault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why exactly can’t schools suspend or expel violent and dangerous students?

Special education laws and racial issues

It is well known that some parent groups such as MOCO NAACP parents council request MCPS to lower the suspension rate for student from some race groups. Because the students who get suspended won't be able to learn . This sounds plausible. But why good intention doesn't bring good result?

What a mischaracterization! The NAACP simply requests that black students be treated fairly. Teachers have biases too. It is entirely plausible that due to those biases, a teacher or staff will witness disruptive behavior from a student, but will treat that behavior differently depending on the child's race.

But I suppose if you feel that black and brown kids are inherently bad or misbehave in general, you are fine with the disproportionate suspensions for black and brown kids vs their white and Asian counterparts.

DP.. I do think our justice system is deeply racist, BUT, it is not helping *anyone* to keep these violent kids in regular school. The other students are being victimized twice -- once by the violent student and again by a school system that may have their heart in the right place, but is hurting these other kids.

I don't believe that anyone thinks that violent kids should be kept in school, no matter their race.

But when you have kids getting suspended for disrespect or insubordination, and those kids are disproportionately black and brown, then I believe there is a good reason for Black and Brown parents to be concerned about biases on behalf of teachers, principles and staff. And THAT is what the NAACP is trying to address.

Yes, they are perfectly responsible parents who engage well in disciplining their little angels.
It's all teacher and the society's fault.

Again, bless your heart.

Try again,this time with a thoughtful, intelligent response....if you are capable.

I doubt it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why exactly can’t schools suspend or expel violent and dangerous students?

Special education laws and racial issues

It is well known that some parent groups such as MOCO NAACP parents council request MCPS to lower the suspension rate for student from some race groups. Because the students who get suspended won't be able to learn . This sounds plausible. But why good intention doesn't bring good result?

What a mischaracterization! The NAACP simply requests that black students be treated fairly. Teachers have biases too. It is entirely plausible that due to those biases, a teacher or staff will witness disruptive behavior from a student, but will treat that behavior differently depending on the child's race.

But I suppose if you feel that black and brown kids are inherently bad or misbehave in general, you are fine with the disproportionate suspensions for black and brown kids vs their white and Asian counterparts.

DP.. I do think our justice system is deeply racist, BUT, it is not helping *anyone* to keep these violent kids in regular school. The other students are being victimized twice -- once by the violent student and again by a school system that may have their heart in the right place, but is hurting these other kids.

I don't believe that anyone thinks that violent kids should be kept in school, no matter their race.

But when you have kids getting suspended for disrespect or insubordination, and those kids are disproportionately black and brown, then I believe there is a good reason for Black and Brown parents to be concerned about biases on behalf of teachers, principles and staff. And THAT is what the NAACP is trying to address.

The OP was talking about mostly violent behavior.. destroying property, etc.. but even if it's just verbal disruptive behavior, it is still affecting the other kids.

Maybe MCPS took RJ too far by including disruptive, violent behavior, because such kids aren't being kicked out of school. They seem to be given chance after chance.

And I agree with another PP.. this kind of behavior starts at home. I see parents who are just as disrespectful and terrible to teachers right in front of their kids, who mimic the parents' behavior. If the school system tried to kick the kid out for this type of behavior of course the parent will balk since the parent behaves in the same manner. Parent doesn't think there's anything wrong with the kid. And I have seen non black/brown parents behave this way, too.

Perhaps MCPS should just have a three strikes law -- three violent incidents, and you're out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The OP was talking about mostly violent behavior.. destroying property, etc.. but even if it's just verbal disruptive behavior, it is still affecting the other kids.

Maybe MCPS took RJ too far by including disruptive, violent behavior, because such kids aren't being kicked out of school. They seem to be given chance after chance.

And I agree with another PP.. this kind of behavior starts at home. I see parents who are just as disrespectful and terrible to teachers right in front of their kids, who mimic the parents' behavior. If the school system tried to kick the kid out for this type of behavior of course the parent will balk since the parent behaves in the same manner. Parent doesn't think there's anything wrong with the kid. And I have seen non black/brown parents behave this way, too.

Perhaps MCPS should just have a three strikes law -- three violent incidents, and you're out.

Out where?

[Anonymous]

I think people aren’t properly using restorative justice. Restorative justice doesn’t mean no consequences. It doesn't mean safety doesn’t come first either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why exactly can’t schools suspend or expel violent and dangerous students?

Special education laws and racial issues

It is well known that some parent groups such as MOCO NAACP parents council request MCPS to lower the suspension rate for student from some race groups. Because the students who get suspended won't be able to learn . This sounds plausible. But why good intention doesn't bring good result?

What a mischaracterization! The NAACP simply requests that black students be treated fairly. Teachers have biases too. It is entirely plausible that due to those biases, a teacher or staff will witness disruptive behavior from a student, but will treat that behavior differently depending on the child's race.

But I suppose if you feel that black and brown kids are inherently bad or misbehave in general, you are fine with the disproportionate suspensions for black and brown kids vs their white and Asian counterparts.

DP.. I do think our justice system is deeply racist, BUT, it is not helping *anyone* to keep these violent kids in regular school. The other students are being victimized twice -- once by the violent student and again by a school system that may have their heart in the right place, but is hurting these other kids.

I don't believe that anyone thinks that violent kids should be kept in school, no matter their race.

But when you have kids getting suspended for disrespect or insubordination, and those kids are disproportionately black and brown, then I believe there is a good reason for Black and Brown parents to be concerned about biases on behalf of teachers, principles and staff. And THAT is what the NAACP is trying to address.

The OP was talking about mostly violent behavior.. destroying property, etc.. but even if it's just verbal disruptive behavior, it is still affecting the other kids.

Maybe MCPS took RJ too far by including disruptive, violent behavior, because such kids aren't being kicked out of school. They seem to be given chance after chance.

And I agree with another PP.. this kind of behavior starts at home. I see parents who are just as disrespectful and terrible to teachers right in front of their kids, who mimic the parents' behavior. If the school system tried to kick the kid out for this type of behavior of course the parent will balk since the parent behaves in the same manner. Parent doesn't think there's anything wrong with the kid. And I have seen non black/brown parents behave this way, too.

Perhaps MCPS should just have a three strikes law -- three violent incidents, and you're out.

I agree with a lot of what you posted, but I was specifically addressing the comment about the NAACP and their concerns with regard to suspensions.

It is really easy to latch on to that (as some in thus thread have done) and make assumptions that black and brown parents aren't disciplining their kids and groups like the NAACP just want to allow violent kids to stay in school.

I don't condone any disruption in the classroom and I certainly don't condone violence. I have a 4th grader and I always ask him if there are any disruptive or violent students in his class. From his account there aren't any. 60% of the students at his school are black or Hispanic and 38% of them are FARMS.

I do feel for the OP. Having a workplace that is demoralizing is tough. I appreciate teachers and I hope things get better in MCPS.