demoralized in MCPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

agree

Sadly, new teachers entering think this is the new norm and are more accepting of this watered down approach toward discipline.

OP - Years ago, we (high school) called the union in to discuss terrible morale and an administrative team that did nothing to support teachers with disciplinary issues. Nothing changed. I left the school - and eventually, we moved out of the county b/c the thought of keeping my own kids in that dysfunctional atmosphere - where breathing "earns" you an A and vaping in bathrooms is the norm - made me sick. And don't get started on the perverted behaviors boys got away with in the school. I put my safety on the line just trying to get a gang member out of my classroom. I've taught plenty in the past, but he was disturbed, and instead of doing his business outside of the school, he thought the school was his playground.

MCPS draws in very educated teachers b/c of salary and benefits, but eventually- very soon, I imagine - it will implode. I don't know how much longer you have, but you either hang in there and lower your standards or you take a cut in salary (I did.) and move to another system. Or, you can try to find another profession altogether.

People used to laugh at some of the more rural systems, but smaller is better, imo, as there's more autonomy.

I am very sorry and have nothing but empathy. I do think the entire system has to implode before it gets better. We are reaching the tipping point at a fast rate.

What does this mean, specifically?

When you say "the system will implode", what do you mean?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why exactly can’t schools suspend or expel violent and dangerous students?

Pretty sure it's federal requirements filtering down.

Thank you, Obama - https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/us-departments-education-and-justice-release-school-discipline-guidance-package-

"Effective teaching and learning cannot take place unless students feel safe at school,"U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan said. "Positive discipline policies can help create safer learning environments without relying heavily on suspensions and expulsions. Schools also must understand their civil rights obligations and avoid unfair disciplinary practices. We need to keep students in class where they can learn. These resources are a step in the right direction.”

And thank you, MSDE - http://marylandpublicschools.org/about/Documents/DSFSS/SSSP/MDGuidelinesforStateCodeDiscipline08072014.pdf
And I urge parents to carefully review the Code of Conduct. It's a joke.

This is where restorative practices (no clue how much the county paid for this training) replace suspensions and expulsions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why exactly can’t schools suspend or expel violent and dangerous students?

Pretty sure it's federal requirements filtering down.

Thank you, Obama - https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/us-departments-education-and-justice-release-school-discipline-guidance-package-

"Effective teaching and learning cannot take place unless students feel safe at school,"U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan said. "Positive discipline policies can help create safer learning environments without relying heavily on suspensions and expulsions. Schools also must understand their civil rights obligations and avoid unfair disciplinary practices. We need to keep students in class where they can learn. These resources are a step in the right direction.”

And thank you, MSDE - http://marylandpublicschools.org/about/Documents/DSFSS/SSSP/MDGuidelinesforStateCodeDiscipline08072014.pdf
And I urge parents to carefully review the Code of Conduct. It's a joke.

This is where restorative practices (no clue how much the county paid for this training) replace suspensions and expulsions.

I've got news for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why exactly can’t schools suspend or expel violent and dangerous students?

Ask the folks who work in the DOE. Bet more than a few post right here on DCUM. They make a lot of oh so helpful regulations that aren't necessarily in the best interests of kids who truly want to be in school to learn and achieve.

Different reasons for different ages but basically, a violent ES student has issues. The school should identify and address those issues, not just kick the student out. Schools have an obligation to educate all students, not just the easy ones. Acting out is a cry for help, not the same as an adult who does such things. Older kids - pushing the kid out of school pushes the kid further away from positive influences and services and towards negative influences. Reduces opportunity for the kid to turn it around.

I don’t know the a ser. These are hard issues and I don’t think anyone has found the “best” or even a really good solution. I think bigger and bigger schools is a problem both for ratios like ES counselors and for a sense of community and feeling known as an individual which is important for non-punitive behavior modification. It’s tough.

PP here. As a long-time educator, I understand what you're saying and agree with much of it. Personally, I think the system has tipped too far in favor of troubled students at the expense of those who are STRUGGLING despite their own challenging circumstances to get an education and have a better future. They're often paying a huge price having to accommodate all kinds of behaviors in their classroom. Making excuses for aggressive, harmful behavior is not the answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

agree

Sadly, new teachers entering think this is the new norm and are more accepting of this watered down approach toward discipline.

OP - Years ago, we (high school) called the union in to discuss terrible morale and an administrative team that did nothing to support teachers with disciplinary issues. Nothing changed. I left the school - and eventually, we moved out of the county b/c the thought of keeping my own kids in that dysfunctional atmosphere - where breathing "earns" you an A and vaping in bathrooms is the norm - made me sick. And don't get started on the perverted behaviors boys got away with in the school. I put my safety on the line just trying to get a gang member out of my classroom. I've taught plenty in the past, but he was disturbed, and instead of doing his business outside of the school, he thought the school was his playground.

MCPS draws in very educated teachers b/c of salary and benefits, but eventually- very soon, I imagine - it will implode. I don't know how much longer you have, but you either hang in there and lower your standards or you take a cut in salary (I did.) and move to another system. Or, you can try to find another profession altogether.

People used to laugh at some of the more rural systems, but smaller is better, imo, as there's more autonomy.

I am very sorry and have nothing but empathy. I do think the entire system has to implode before it gets better. We are reaching the tipping point at a fast rate.

What does this mean, specifically?

When you say "the system will implode", what do you mean?

a few things:

- when the county finally shares its retention rates (Do you know how many people leave each year, and how many new teachers are hired? or - How many new teachers stay past 5 years?)
- when parents finally start to network to address the dangerous incidents at their schools
- when we see the stats on how many admin are "moved around" for being ineffectual
- when parents finally demand information on the types of behaviors that aren't being addressed in schools

Look - The smart teachers know the deal, but many are trapped b/c they have a mortgage to pay. The dumb teachers (and there are plenty of those, too) will stay for the same reasons, but they don't give a rat's a** b/c they're too stupid to figure it out - or they're opportunistic. Parents need to step up and ask questions.

For example, when my daughter was in middle school, she was called a white ho by this one kid who was troubled. I tried to equip her with strategies to deal with his behaviors. I believe in empowering kids, especially girls. Two staff members stepped up and handled it. But he's still causing trouble to this day. And that's a "mild" case. I won't go into some of the more horrific situations my daughter experienced or was privy to.

I wish I could put fire under parents' a**es. As an insider, I saw the erosion begin in 2000, once the solid administrators were beginning to retire b/c autonomy and community were no longer respected. NEC? DCC? laughable! That configuration was a way to make schools "compete" for kids by "ramping up" their programs. So there's always a last choice, right? What message did that give the kids whose home school was last choice? And it went to hell from there.

Just get involved and demand answers. Talk to your kids. How many chances do kids get when they're disruptive? What is their idea of disruptive behavior? Does cursing at a teacher earn a kid a suspension? What about fights? How many fights are there? And do the kids return the next day? There are no consequences.

Sadly, they've seen so much that it's become their norm, too. Poor behavior should NEVER be the norm, however. Your kids should be in classrooms with as little disruption as possible. If it's a 45-min class, 45 mins should be used toward instruction - not toward discipline. Teachers are tired b/c they're not respected. So each day they give in more and more until they, too, begin to accept poor behavior as the norm. And the new ones coming in believe this is the norm. So the cycle of dysfunction continues.

Being involved is more than bringing in donuts for staff appreciation. TALK to your kids and listen. Talk to other parents and demand answers. Read the stories that make the news. See how many incidents make the news months AFTER the fact.

I say this not as an alarmist but as one who cares passionately about education - to the point of having to leave a system that nearly did me in.

These are your children. They deserve a right to a solid education - to a safe learning space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why exactly can’t schools suspend or expel violent and dangerous students?

Pretty sure it's federal requirements filtering down.

Thank you, Obama - https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/us-departments-education-and-justice-release-school-discipline-guidance-package-

"Effective teaching and learning cannot take place unless students feel safe at school,"U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan said. "Positive discipline policies can help create safer learning environments without relying heavily on suspensions and expulsions. Schools also must understand their civil rights obligations and avoid unfair disciplinary practices. We need to keep students in class where they can learn. These resources are a step in the right direction.”

And thank you, MSDE - http://marylandpublicschools.org/about/Documents/DSFSS/SSSP/MDGuidelinesforStateCodeDiscipline08072014.pdf
And I urge parents to carefully review the Code of Conduct. It's a joke.

This is where restorative practices (no clue how much the county paid for this training) replace suspensions and expulsions.

I've got news for you.

what? Can you write something that makes sense?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has always been MCPS and nothing new. Get used to it or change jobs. We know.

Most parents do NOT know.
And why the condescension and anger toward a teacher who cares enough to write this out on a parenting forum?

Hi PP. I’m an MCPS teacher too, but in a middle school, and I just want to thank you for posting on here. I know you speak the truth. To the pp who says it’s nothing new, it’s much worse than it used to be. I will say that even when central had extra bloat, they never came to support my mediocre principal and morale is still sinking. The only reason turnover has slowed a bit is because so many people are new at this point. The home school model is a problem too. They claim it’s about least restrictive environment, but it’s about saving money. Bad teachers never get fired, bad principals never get fired, so anyone who works hard and is decent is demoralized. It’s bad.

agree

Sadly, new teachers entering think this is the new norm and are more accepting of this watered down approach toward discipline.

OP - Years ago, we (high school) called the union in to discuss terrible morale and an administrative team that did nothing to support teachers with disciplinary issues. Nothing changed. I left the school - and eventually, we moved out of the county b/c the thought of keeping my own kids in that dysfunctional atmosphere - where breathing "earns" you an A and vaping in bathrooms is the norm - made me sick. And don't get started on the perverted behaviors boys got away with in the school. I put my safety on the line just trying to get a gang member out of my classroom. I've taught plenty in the past, but he was disturbed, and instead of doing his business outside of the school, he thought the school was his playground.

MCPS draws in very educated teachers b/c of salary and benefits, but eventually- very soon, I imagine - it will implode. I don't know how much longer you have, but you either hang in there and lower your standards or you take a cut in salary (I did.) and move to another system. Or, you can try to find another profession altogether.

People used to laugh at some of the more rural systems, but smaller is better, imo, as there's more autonomy.

I am very sorry and have nothing but empathy. I do think the entire system has to implode before it gets better. We are reaching the tipping point at a fast rate.

DP

Smaller school systems absolutely have more autonomy. I think that is one of the main problems with MCPS. TOO BIG.

Problems get swept under the rug and there is zero accountability.

OP, I can definitely empathize.

I agree with the PP that says parents should ask their kids about what is going on in schools. Guaranteed that your kids would have some stories to tell that you would find incredibly disturbing.

I think parents are simply unaware what the school environment is like on a day to day basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why exactly can’t schools suspend or expel violent and dangerous students?

Special education laws and racial issues

It is well known that some parent groups such as MOCO NAACP parents council request MCPS to lower the suspension rate for student from some race groups. Because the students who get suspended won't be able to learn . This sounds plausible. But why good intention doesn't bring good result?

[Anonymous]

I love that parents are being blamed for not disciplining kids when mcps is setting these kids up to fail. 1 PE a week? 25 minutes of recess a day? Chrome books and Promethean boards on all day so their brains are in a constant heightened state? I would guess only 30% of kids can succeed in an environment like this where they need to move their bodies more and they need paper and pencil more than computer games to teach them math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I love that parents are being blamed for not disciplining kids when mcps is setting these kids up to fail. 1 PE a week? 25 minutes of recess a day? Chrome books and Promethean boards on all day so their brains are in a constant heightened state? I would guess only 30% of kids can succeed in an environment like this where they need to move their bodies more and they need paper and pencil more than computer games to teach them math.

I always thought part of the problem was not enough Chromebooks so MCPS can replace teachers with AI.

[Anonymous]

I have been PTA officer in two high FARMS and ESOL school and I have been disgusted to see first hand what the teacher has written above.

What has been asked of teachers by MCPS is absolutely backwards. Between the ineffective "restorative justice" and terrible curriculum - I wonder why any teacher would want to work in MCPS.

Unfortunately, there are too many people in BOE and in administration position in MCPS who are pushing a flawed and racist agenda on the rest of population. The rape of students at DHS, is a result of not saying anything to poorly behaving and criminal students of color, who were expelled from other schools and then enrolled in DHS. And yes, the majority of trouble makers and worst offenders who are uncontrollable have been Black students. Say anything to them and you are the worst racist possible,

The school where I went first had more Blacks in them and the next school had more Hispanics. The school with more Blacks was by far the worst school because they will politicize on race, any action you take. .

Incidentally, the bad behavior and bullying is typically happening within the same groups. So studious Black students get bullied mercilessly in the school by other Blacks. White tend to bully White students, Hispanics tend to bully Hispanics and athletes tend to bully athletes. In all of this, Black and Hispanic students who actually want to study and are good kids are bullied in the worst way and their education is the most disrupted by terribly behaved students.

When we hear of Swastikas painted on schools by White supremacist, it is usually in predominantly White schools and the target is usually other Whites who are Jewish. Most of the time these schools have a very small URM population.

Since the trend is of bullying within the racial groups, we are not doing any group favors by being lax in discipline. Trouble makers should be given hard punishment and not be allowed back in the classroom because of some BS restorative justice.

The irony is that when Black administrators pushed for "Restorative Justice" for Black students, they victimized and shafted the innocent Black students. Way to go!!

[Anonymous]

MCPS should make all instruction Online. There is no reason for my kid to be going to school at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The irony is that when Black administrators pushed for "Restorative Justice" for Black students, they victimized and shafted the innocent Black students. Way to go!!

I have to agree with this. And not allowing any consequences, ie, ignoring the bad behavior, doesn't help the student with the behavioral issues.

BUT, some times, it is the parent's fault.

In the case of the Damascus rape case, the parent was notified numerous times by MCPS teachers/staff regarding the child's behavioral issues. The student was basically passed around to a different school, along with the issues. Unfortunately, staff at the schools hands were tied.

I really hope that BOE/Central Office changes *something* after this incident.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why exactly can’t schools suspend or expel violent and dangerous students?

Special education laws and racial issues

It is well known that some parent groups such as MOCO NAACP parents council request MCPS to lower the suspension rate for student from some race groups. Because the students who get suspended won't be able to learn . This sounds plausible. But why good intention doesn't bring good result?

What a mischaracterization! The NAACP simply requests that black students be treated fairly. Teachers have biases too. It is entirely plausible that due to those biases, a teacher or staff will witness disruptive behavior from a student, but will treat that behavior differently depending on the child's race.

But I suppose if you feel that black and brown kids are inherently bad or misbehave in general, you are fine with the disproportionate suspensions for black and brown kids vs their white and Asian counterparts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been PTA officer in two high FARMS and ESOL school and I have been disgusted to see first hand what the teacher has written above.

What has been asked of teachers by MCPS is absolutely backwards. Between the ineffective "restorative justice" and terrible curriculum - I wonder why any teacher would want to work in MCPS.

Unfortunately, there are too many people in BOE and in administration position in MCPS who are pushing a flawed and racist agenda on the rest of population. The rape of students at DHS, is a result of not saying anything to poorly behaving and criminal students of color, who were expelled from other schools and then enrolled in DHS. And yes, the majority of trouble makers and worst offenders who are uncontrollable have been Black students. Say anything to them and you are the worst racist possible,

The school where I went first had more Blacks in them and the next school had more Hispanics. The school with more Blacks was by far the worst school because they will politicize on race, any action you take. .

Incidentally, the bad behavior and bullying is typically happening within the same groups. So studious Black students get bullied mercilessly in the school by other Blacks. White tend to bully White students, Hispanics tend to bully Hispanics and athletes tend to bully athletes. In all of this, Black and Hispanic students who actually want to study and are good kids are bullied in the worst way and their education is the most disrupted by terribly behaved students.

When we hear of Swastikas painted on schools by White supremacist, it is usually in predominantly White schools and the target is usually other Whites who are Jewish. Most of the time these schools have a very small URM population.

Since the trend is of bullying within the racial groups, we are not doing any group favors by being lax in discipline. Trouble makers should be given hard punishment and not be allowed back in the classroom because of some BS restorative justice.

The irony is that when Black administrators pushed for "Restorative Justice" for Black students, they victimized and shafted the innocent Black students. Way to go!!

MOCO residents voted for these BOE members.
sigh~~~