how to help mentally ill brother, his wife who is sick of it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think this thread shows the stigma of mental illness. Telling OP not to offer to help, to not offer support, to say out of it, to not engage, to not get involved in any way.

Listen to the poster who suggested contacting NAMI - they are much better suited to connect you to services and to help you navigate this than a board of people who are acting like mental illness is a horrible character flaw.

Any serious illness can be very difficult on a couple and it isn't strange or a lack of effort or poor character that are the reasons why SIL or brother are struggling. Mental illness (especially with no family support) is really, really hard on families, couples and individuals. You don't just man up and get over it.

The main priority should be getting brother a proper thorough assessment / diagnosis and getting into the treatment program that is best for his condition to figure out how to best manage / treat whatever he has. If your parents can help financially, it can go directly to treatment.

Selling the house in the middle of a mental health crisis would not be a good idea. Nor would taking the child out of stable child care.

OP please contact NAMI or other mental health for family resources in your area.

I also have a brother with mental illness. He is now properly treated and is employed in a stable low stress, still married and a great dad - although it wasn't always that way. We stuck by him through it all, just like we did when my sister had cancer. He still needs to live life in a way that allows him to manage his illness and we support him in that. Remember your brother didn't choose to have a mental illness and isn't just being a difficult, weak person

Wow, did you read the thread? Sounds like you’re seeing things that aren’t there.

First, his doctor is not convinced that he has bipolar at all.
Second, OP sees for herself that his bipolar meds aren’t working and are actually making him a lot worse.
Third, it’s really only the wife who insists there’s something wrong with him.
Fourth, he wants a lower stress job/life but she won’t let him do that because she needs him to bankroll her life of leisure and no responsibilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this thread shows the stigma of mental illness. Telling OP not to offer to help, to not offer support, to say out of it, to not engage, to not get involved in any way.

Listen to the poster who suggested contacting NAMI - they are much better suited to connect you to services and to help you navigate this than a board of people who are acting like mental illness is a horrible character flaw.

Any serious illness can be very difficult on a couple and it isn't strange or a lack of effort or poor character that are the reasons why SIL or brother are struggling. Mental illness (especially with no family support) is really, really hard on families, couples and individuals. You don't just man up and get over it.

The main priority should be getting brother a proper thorough assessment / diagnosis and getting into the treatment program that is best for his condition to figure out how to best manage / treat whatever he has. If your parents can help financially, it can go directly to treatment.

Selling the house in the middle of a mental health crisis would not be a good idea. Nor would taking the child out of stable child care.

OP please contact NAMI or other mental health for family resources in your area.

I also have a brother with mental illness. He is now properly treated and is employed in a stable low stress, still married and a great dad - although it wasn't always that way. We stuck by him through it all, just like we did when my sister had cancer. He still needs to live life in a way that allows him to manage his illness and we support him in that. Remember your brother didn't choose to have a mental illness and isn't just being a difficult, weak person

Wow, did you read the thread? Sounds like you’re seeing things that aren’t there.

First, his doctor is not convinced that he has bipolar at all.
Second, OP sees for herself that his bipolar meds aren’t working and are actually making him a lot worse.
Third, it’s really only the wife who insists there’s something wrong with him.
Fourth, he wants a lower stress job/life but she won’t let him do that because she needs him to bankroll her life of leisure and no responsibilities.

Oh, and that the wife had her mother come stay in their house against his wishes making him so uncomfortable that he literally goes to stay in a hotel amid a financial crisis when they simply can’t afford it is also emotionally abusive. You just can’t do that in a marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think this thread shows the stigma of mental illness. Telling OP not to offer to help, to not offer support, to say out of it, to not engage, to not get involved in any way.

Listen to the poster who suggested contacting NAMI - they are much better suited to connect you to services and to help you navigate this than a board of people who are acting like mental illness is a horrible character flaw.

Any serious illness can be very difficult on a couple and it isn't strange or a lack of effort or poor character that are the reasons why SIL or brother are struggling. Mental illness (especially with no family support) is really, really hard on families, couples and individuals. You don't just man up and get over it.

The main priority should be getting brother a proper thorough assessment / diagnosis and getting into the treatment program that is best for his condition to figure out how to best manage / treat whatever he has. If your parents can help financially, it can go directly to treatment.

Selling the house in the middle of a mental health crisis would not be a good idea. Nor would taking the child out of stable child care.

OP please contact NAMI or other mental health for family resources in your area.

I also have a brother with mental illness. He is now properly treated and is employed in a stable low stress, still married and a great dad - although it wasn't always that way. We stuck by him through it all, just like we did when my sister had cancer. He still needs to live life in a way that allows him to manage his illness and we support him in that. Remember your brother didn't choose to have a mental illness and isn't just being a difficult, weak person

So, I'm the first PP to suggest NAMI. I've also suggested holding firm boundaries. If you look at my and a few other PP's posts, we're not at all telling the OP not to help, but we're telling her to be cognizant of the help she provides and how that affects her and her nuclear family. This stuff is very, very tough, and it's easy as a sibling to get sucked in and take on more than is your role to take on, to the extent that it severely negatively impacts your health. Now, the OP (or anyone) could reasonably say, this situation is a crisis, I'm going to lean in and then lean out as need be. Fine; easier said than done, and it usually requires assistance (be it NAMI or her own individual therapy) to navigate. Also, it would be different if the OP's brother were, say, grossly psychotic and literally could not function. That doesn't seem to be the case.

Stigma around mental illness may well be the biggest problem people with psychiatric disorders face. It's grossly unfair. Maintaining boundaries does not necessarily reinforce stigma, though. I have a mentally ill sibling who is local, and completely dysfunctional parents, who are also local. I am clear about how I will help and how I will not. As the one in my family who's been responsible for everyone's mental health since I was a kid, I'm not willing to sacrifice my life or my family for them. That doesn't mean I stigmatize mental illness, it means I prioritize my own mental health *while also helping my sibling*. It's not black and white.

[Anonymous]

^^PS: I have repeatedly, repeatedly suggested the kind of long-term, holistic management to my sibling that these disorders require. It's damn hard work, but it can be done. I've stuck by them in that way, but get involved to the level that some PPs are suggesting? Nope. Not when it involves exposing my kids to the level of danger and dysfunction my sibling has exposed them to, repeatedly, and with our parents' cooperation. Again: it's not black and white.

[Anonymous]

OP again, thanks all. to be clear the psychiatrist does believe there is some mental illness occurring, but does not believe it to be the bipolar disorder of the original diagnosis.

May be classical depression, maybe OCD, perhaps panic disorder etc. I do empathize to a certain extent with my SIL because it's not like this has been a two-month-slump, it's coming up on 8 months of listlessness, laying about the house and no progress made. However, and I know I can't say this because I haven't been in her shoes, I like to think that if it were me and DH were acting so off after being on medication that it would have occurred to me that perhaps the medication isn't helping/working and we need a second opinion here.

I wound up doing what I thought I could handle -- reaching out to his insurer on his behalf to get list of outpatient mental health programs that accept his insurance. then calling some to see if they had spots and putting him in touch with them. he did go for an intake appointment today at one of them, and also got drug-tested, on the advice of a family lawyer my folks hired to ensure he can prove what he says is the case -- i.e. that he's sober. I am proud of him today for taking these steps -- and also having lunch with an old pal in town on business. And hopeful that he is beginning to see a way to fixing things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this thread shows the stigma of mental illness. Telling OP not to offer to help, to not offer support, to say out of it, to not engage, to not get involved in any way.

Listen to the poster who suggested contacting NAMI - they are much better suited to connect you to services and to help you navigate this than a board of people who are acting like mental illness is a horrible character flaw.

Any serious illness can be very difficult on a couple and it isn't strange or a lack of effort or poor character that are the reasons why SIL or brother are struggling. Mental illness (especially with no family support) is really, really hard on families, couples and individuals. You don't just man up and get over it.

The main priority should be getting brother a proper thorough assessment / diagnosis and getting into the treatment program that is best for his condition to figure out how to best manage / treat whatever he has. If your parents can help financially, it can go directly to treatment.

Selling the house in the middle of a mental health crisis would not be a good idea. Nor would taking the child out of stable child care.

OP please contact NAMI or other mental health for family resources in your area.

I also have a brother with mental illness. He is now properly treated and is employed in a stable low stress, still married and a great dad - although it wasn't always that way. We stuck by him through it all, just like we did when my sister had cancer. He still needs to live life in a way that allows him to manage his illness and we support him in that. Remember your brother didn't choose to have a mental illness and isn't just being a difficult, weak person

Wow, did you read the thread? Sounds like you’re seeing things that aren’t there.

First, his doctor is not convinced that he has bipolar at all.
Second, OP sees for herself that his bipolar meds aren’t working and are actually making him a lot worse.
Third, it’s really only the wife who insists there’s something wrong with him.
Fourth, he wants a lower stress job/life but she won’t let him do that because she needs him to bankroll her life of leisure and no responsibilities.

+1

[Anonymous]

Your parents hired an attorney for your brother?

If he’s not actually an addict, they are definitely enabling him like he is one. Good luck OP.

[Anonymous]

It seems that things are moving in the right direction, OP. It was great that you set up an intake for him. This is very helpful and kind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like brother took one for the team and worked stressful jobs so he could support your SIL’a (kind of bs) low-paying job. It’s her turn to step up and get a real job or agree to figure out cheaper way to live. Sounds like she was using him and has no interest now that he’s not bringing in the big bucks. She needs to step up. This should be what marriage is about.

This sounds unfair to SIL, she did land the network job. But I do agree that with her husband the condition he’s in, she might have to take a job to float the daily expenses plus they really need to move long term. Husband doesn’t sound like he’s going back to his high profile financial job for a few years. They have to adapt to their new reality now. Bailout of $50k of credit card debt 2 years ago, plus renting a house just 2 blocks from the ocean makes me think they have habitually spent over their means. Two years ago he still had that financial job. How the heck did they rack up $50k in CC debt?

As for OP, I’d try to help over the phone. What will flying out accomplish? Don’t do it.

[Anonymous]

The length of my entire 25+ years of marriage has been to support DH's brother who has BPD with addiction and my FIL who has NPD and dementia.

There is nothing you can do truly. Your dad has the right answer and solution. Getting involved is going down the rabbit hole.

[Anonymous]

Ok again, he is literally homeless though _ his disability benefits are being used to fund a home he's not allowed to live in and he has been hotel_hopping since Friday.

He is on day 2 of intensive outpatient program _ I don't want to enable but do people really advise just cutting bait and hoping he figures out a place to stay? Better to tough love him and hope he gets the picture or help him find a sublet etc? Also how does one get their money back from spouse in this situation? Both names on lease etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok again, he is literally homeless though _ his disability benefits are being used to fund a home he's not allowed to live in and he has been hotel_hopping since Friday.

He is on day 2 of intensive outpatient program _ I don't want to enable but do people really advise just cutting bait and hoping he figures out a place to stay? Better to tough love him and hope he gets the picture or help him find a sublet etc? Also how does one get their money back from spouse in this situation? Both names on lease etc.

If you can help him find a place to stay, at least during his outpatient treatment, I'd do that, but don't get involved in the details of his relationship with his wife. You simply have no idea what is going on in his marriage, and you're not equipped to deal with it. Unless his wife has a restraining order, she can't keep him out of the house. If you can help him find a sublet, do it. I'd probably even float him the money for first month's rent. Don't promise to pay for more than you can afford. Don't pretend it's a loan--you'll never get any money back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok again, he is literally homeless though _ his disability benefits are being used to fund a home he's not allowed to live in and he has been hotel_hopping since Friday.

He is on day 2 of intensive outpatient program _ I don't want to enable but do people really advise just cutting bait and hoping he figures out a place to stay? Better to tough love him and hope he gets the picture or help him find a sublet etc? Also how does one get their money back from spouse in this situation? Both names on lease etc.

If you can help him find a place to stay, at least during his outpatient treatment, I'd do that, but don't get involved in the details of his relationship with his wife. You simply have no idea what is going on in his marriage, and you're not equipped to deal with it. Unless his wife has a restraining order, she can't keep him out of the house. If you can help him find a sublet, do it. I'd probably even float him the money for first month's rent. Don't promise to pay for more than you can afford. Don't pretend it's a loan--you'll never get any money back.

His treatment program should have the staff to help him find housing. Repeat: his treatment program should have the staff to help him find housing. Encourage him to talk to his treatment team.

If they don't (!), you can see what services in his locality can help him. You could offer him money, but be clear that it's not a permanent solution unless you want it to be.

You don't have to "cut bait" to have good boundaries. Instead, help him find the people whose job it is to help him and to let him know the services to which he may be entitled. You're helping him assume the responsibility for his treatment, which is essential. Treatment and recovery happen in daily life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can't help people who don't want to be helped.

But any financial help you offer needs to come with heavy strings. Personally, I'd make one offer. I'll pay for them to break their lease and move to a more affordable home. BUT this means I get a say in where they move and get to look over their finances to help them make a budget for their new reality. I'd want to manage their life in the short term essentially. If they can't manage it, I will, but I'm not just giving hand outs.

If they don't like that deal, fine. But that's my only offer.

This - and if they are near SIL's mom, can she agree to watch the child on a temporary basis and pull child out of day care.

[Anonymous]

This sounds incredibly stressful.

This sounds A LOT like my in laws. Is it possible that your brothers has borderline personality disorder (which one of my ILs has)? It is under diagnosed in men.