What's with the constant put down here of hardworking kids as "Striver" kids"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I rail against people who design a kids' whole childhood (i.e.,their SUPPOSED interests, extra-curricular activities, summers) to line up with a pre-destined path that will push them into some future that is impressive to wealthy others. That allow their children to take so many AP's that it requires insufficient sleep, caffeine (or worse ) for children to get a GPA that puts them ahead of their peers in the eyes of HYP. It is not healthy, and it is not being done for pro-social reasons. It is being done to beat out others.

Interesting. Why do you assume that the kids can't handle these things. I did all of these things (and attended HYPS). But my parents did not push me to do them. In fact, they were usually telling me to do less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I rail against people who design a kids' whole childhood (i.e.,their SUPPOSED interests, extra-curricular activities, summers) to line up with a pre-destined path that will push them into some future that is impressive to wealthy others. That allow their children to take so many AP's that it requires insufficient sleep, caffeine (or worse ) for children to get a GPA that puts them ahead of their peers in the eyes of HYP. It is not healthy, and it is not being done for pro-social reasons. It is being done to beat out others.

Interesting. Why do you assume that the kids can't handle these things. I did all of these things (and attended HYPS). But my parents did not push me to do them. In fact, they were usually telling me to do less.

I love when somebody admits they went to HPY and then totally can't understand a simple concept.

Sorry, Becky, we are not going to explain it to you. Go back and read some posts and use context clues to try to understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It has NOTHING to do with kids who are hard working because they want to truly be. It has everything to do with he force parents put on their kids and how they feel this pressure to do it to not disappoint them.

this is a lame hedge against what you really meant. you're being called for being antithetical to what America is about and now you're frantically backtracking.

No. If you truly understood the meaning of American Dream you would understand you are falling into the false understanding that it is about money...

It is not a dream of motor cars and high wages merely, but a dream of social order in which each man and each woman shall be able to attain to the fullest stature of which they are innately capable, and be recognized by others for what they are, regardless of the fortuitous circumstances of birth or position - James Truslow Adams

Right - it's 'that dream of a land in which life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement'. Except if you achieve too much, because then we will insult you.

See... I get you can only read words but can't understand concepts because it was not all spelled out for you so here... I'm going to highlight a very important part of the quote.

Now that I gave you a hint... you know I can't give you a 4.5 on this test. You might get a 3.8... it's tragic.

Here is an idea, read the book and truly understand and we will count it as extra credit to get back your 4.5... or maybe read the book because you love to learn.... hahaha ... that one even made me laugh.

[Anonymous]

Why are strivers lauded in sports but shamed in academics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCUM gonna DCUM.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I hear of it, I think of the stereotype from my college days of Asian / SE Asian pre-med students. Everyone at my school knew there was a subset who cheated in Organic Chemistry.

Here’s how I think of it-

Grit / work ethic = loves to learn, dreams of being a Dr to help people, studies day and night, goes to all the office hours and review sessions, really seeks to understand for the sake of knowledge.

Striver = wants to be a Dr because of the perception of wealth and status, works hard and studies but also looks for any advantage like being drinking buddies with the TA, getting prior semester tests to study from, and sometimes cheating.

Striving to me is not about the effort made, but the goal of the effort. Are you studying to master the material or to get an A for your GPA. Are you volunteering because the cause is something you believe in or because it will look good on your applications.

I think this post sums it up really well.

Thanks. I was a striver. I was a middle class kid with a teacher mom and a factory worker dad who picked what was at the time the highest paid undergrad major - chemical engineering. All I cared about was what job I could get if my grades were good. I did well on tests, but years later I remember nothing. I went into consulting. My HS and College years were like Tracy Flick in the movie Election. There isn’t a club I didn’t join or an activity I didn’t do. My college application list of ECs and leadership positions was 2 pages. I would have knocked down my best friends and stepped over them if they got in the way of me being valedictorian. I am not proud of this. I want something different for my kids even if it means they won’t go to tippy top name brand schools. I came from a family without money and it’s all I wanted in my teens and 20s.

My husband has work ethic and a real passion for science. He is a white, 3rd gen Ivy legacy, full pay. He has his PhD in engineering and I get the impression that he never worried about grades. He just “did his best” and “studied what seemed interesting”. Hopefully if the world keeps moving towards being a better and more inclusive space my son’s will not benefit from the massive amount of privilege my husband did and will find their way mostly on their own merited. My husband is smart and a super nice guy who is well liked by his coworkers, but he’s pretty average in terms of kids in N. Arlington. He grew up in an East coast town that looks a lot like Bethesda. He works as a GS 13 scientist. He will never be a high earner but he’s doing what he loves. He came from a family with money and had this attitude that he could just follow his passion and it would all work out. He would not care if our household income was significantly less.

My memory of a striver was also our valedictorian (and you don't sound nearly the same PP). He did everything to jokey the GPA, like taking sophomore honors chemistry for a weighted grade as a senior, when he could have taken AP chem. He was also student body secretary because the seat was unopposed. I continued to see him because we both went to the state flagship and one of my good friends was his roommate. By that point he was incredibly bitter and vindictive. I don't remember who rejected him, but lower ranking students ended up at better schools. He was white and my friend, who was more laid back, was Asian, which should be irrelevant. My friend would play tennis with him and was more talented, but he would soften his play so they could have an enjoyable match. There was one time that he went too easy and former-v sensing a win got extremely cocky and nasty. So my friend decided to turn it on and clobber him. Former-v stormed off and when my friend got back to the dorm a key had been broken off in the outside lock--sure enough it belonged to former-v. I also know more than I wish I did about him cheating on his girlfriend with strippers, etc. Anyway, the guy was a striver, he worked hard at it, but that's not a work ethic, unethical was his defining characteristic.

The other thing about my memory is I always saw these traits as inherent to the student, now they seem to originate with the parents--maybe that's just my change of perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I rail against people who design a kids' whole childhood (i.e.,their SUPPOSED interests, extra-curricular activities, summers) to line up with a pre-destined path that will push them into some future that is impressive to wealthy others. That allow their children to take so many AP's that it requires insufficient sleep, caffeine (or worse ) for children to get a GPA that puts them ahead of their peers in the eyes of HYP. It is not healthy, and it is not being done for pro-social reasons. It is being done to beat out others.

Where are these people? I live in McLan and have raised two children who are now in college. I do not see this. I see parents going their children many different opportunities until one sticks with the kid. No pre-ordained stuff.

[Anonymous]

Only in sports and legacy obsessed America would hard-working kids of hard-working parents be criticized as "strivers."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I hear of it, I think of the stereotype from my college days of Asian / SE Asian pre-med students. Everyone at my school knew there was a subset who cheated in Organic Chemistry.

Here’s how I think of it-

Grit / work ethic = loves to learn, dreams of being a Dr to help people, studies day and night, goes to all the office hours and review sessions, really seeks to understand for the sake of knowledge.

Striver = wants to be a Dr because of the perception of wealth and status, works hard and studies but also looks for any advantage like being drinking buddies with the TA, getting prior semester tests to study from, and sometimes cheating.

Striving to me is not about the effort made, but the goal of the effort. Are you studying to master the material or to get an A for your GPA. Are you volunteering because the cause is something you believe in or because it will look good on your applications.

If that’s true then “striver” describes many UMC white kids to a T. But for some reasons I mostly hear the term applied to Asians. Coincidence?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are strivers lauded in sports but shamed in academics?

They are the same. Both are often an unsatisfying road to nowhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I rail against people who design a kids' whole childhood (i.e.,their SUPPOSED interests, extra-curricular activities, summers) to line up with a pre-destined path that will push them into some future that is impressive to wealthy others. That allow their children to take so many AP's that it requires insufficient sleep, caffeine (or worse ) for children to get a GPA that puts them ahead of their peers in the eyes of HYP. It is not healthy, and it is not being done for pro-social reasons. It is being done to beat out others.

Very good post.

Agree. I think this is the pushback against "strivers." I think it can come off as anti-Asian. I think people are concerned about the overall cultural shift to achieve at all costs and they attribute that to Asian "Tiger Moms." I think it's all pushy parents, not just Asian ones. My kids' friends have been pushed to take certain courses of study even though they don't align with the kids' passion, interests or strength, they have been told that they must succeed for their ancestors, that a B shames the family, been physically abused because of poor grades, not allowed to pursue mandolin because it is not a "worthy" instrument, etc. I think it happens in families of any race that put some preconceived notion of success and achievement above the mental and physical health of their child. Although my child's friends are almost exclusively Asian, I don't doubt families of other races do the same thing and many Asian families do not.

I think it will be interesting to see how all of this pressure plays out as these kids enter the workforce. I wonder if it will be worth what some families have put their child through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are strivers lauded in sports but shamed in academics?

They are the same. Both are often an unsatisfying road to nowhere.

Haha no way.

Strivers in sports are praised to no end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I hear of it, I think of the stereotype from my college days of Asian / SE Asian pre-med students. Everyone at my school knew there was a subset who cheated in Organic Chemistry.

Here’s how I think of it-

Grit / work ethic = loves to learn, dreams of being a Dr to help people, studies day and night, goes to all the office hours and review sessions, really seeks to understand for the sake of knowledge.

Striver = wants to be a Dr because of the perception of wealth and status, works hard and studies but also looks for any advantage like being drinking buddies with the TA, getting prior semester tests to study from, and sometimes cheating.

Striving to me is not about the effort made, but the goal of the effort. Are you studying to master the material or to get an A for your GPA. Are you volunteering because the cause is something you believe in or because it will look good on your applications.

If that’s true then “striver” describes many UMC white kids to a T. But for some reasons I mostly hear the term applied to Asians. Coincidence?

Strivers are historically used for wihte UMC teens... actually their parents... maybe you have a blindspot, or you are looking for trouble where there is none, overly sensitive, only hear what you want to hear... pick one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are strivers lauded in sports but shamed in academics?

They are the same. Both are often an unsatisfying road to nowhere.

Haha no way.

Strivers in sports are praised to no end.

Well, mostly they are called try hards and if you think they are lauded, you still don't know what stirver means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are strivers lauded in sports but shamed in academics?

They are the same. Both are often an unsatisfying road to nowhere.

Haha no way.

Strivers in sports are praised to no end.

I suppose the equivalent is parents that force their child into a sport and prop them up for years with private lessons, etc. when the kid is not interested. I don't praise that either and I think that is becoming disfavored as well. Many kids have oversees injuries at young ages. Doctors and others are starting to criticize those overbearing parents as well. It is no better than the academic striver parents. The pressure is insane in both sports and academics. It's unhealthy.