What's with the constant put down here of hardworking kids as "Striver" kids"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Different PP here, who hasn't posted in a number of pages. But I thought some examples of strivers being described in other contexts negatively might provide some helpful nuance:

"Who wants to be “unwashed” (or should we say, “pre-washed”) if that means being an aggressive tryhard like the “If We Could Be Boring” girl from Thought Catalog circa 2011? Nothing is uncooler than the striver who really wants you to know she drinks Aperol on a fire escape and lives “in a golden house full of only beautiful people.” The “washed” are fine with their red wine and their gardens, because they’re comfortable in their own skins."

https://slate.com/human-interest/2018/07/saying-im-washed-a-la-gqs-zach-baron-is-really-just-another-way-of-saying-im-cool.html

"He is a “prolix, circular” thinker, “more of an intellectual striver than a genuine intellectual,” who extolls Indian slums for their sustainable way of life and preaches against the corrupting allure of “sophistication” while himself living in unfathomable luxe."

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/04/10/where-prince-charles-went-wrong

"Tries Too Hard is the category of do-gooders, poseurs, strivers, and phonies. Cultural aversions to inauthenticity and shamelessness — which we often believe to go hand-in-hand — cause us to revile those whose lives and mannerisms seem rehearsed."

https://www.thecut.com/2013/04/20-most-hated-celebrities-why-we-hate-them.html

On the Smashing Pumpkins: "The band was called out by Pavement in the lyrics to “Range Life,” getting lumped into the same verse as Stone Temple Pilots, who were seen as alt rock’s ultimate strivers."

https://www.spin.com/2013/07/smashing-pumpkins-siamese-dream-20-video-directors-cherub-rock-today-disarm-rocket/

"Since time immemorial, strivers have been kissing up to the prom queen; glad-handing strangers; and hiring claques to astroturf applause. (And some timeless strivers do all of the above, like a certain popular Twitter user who brought a claque to his first meeting with the CIA."

https://www.thecut.com/2017/04/social-media-made-popularity-boring.html

Oh and there's this: "A Running List Of Cowards, Courtiers, Strivers And Suck-Ups" https://www.huffpost.com/entry/white-house-correspondents-dinner-reaction_n_5ae662bfe4b04aa23f243be0

Yay, so you've shown that people sometimes use striver pejoritively? That still doesn't show there's a terrible scourge of joyless Go-playing vicious children stealing PP's child's rightful college acceptances ...

[Anonymous]

Aside from being uncool tryhards, strivers drain some of the joy out of childhood and school by treating it as a desperate competition. This results in an unhealthy, immiserating environment for all students. I'm not concerned with my kids "losing" out at some competition, but I hope they can avoid some of the childhood rat-race that's so prevalent in the DMV. We're moving to a smaller city, so hopefully it will be better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yay, so you've shown that people sometimes use striver pejoritively? That still doesn't show there's a terrible scourge of joyless Go-playing vicious children stealing PP's child's rightful college acceptances ...

I never said there was, different PP here. I got into my top choice, high-ranked schools and my kids are far from the college application process. I'm just disputing the notion that striver isn't a pejorative or doesn't have an established meaning outside this board. I'd also dispute that it has a racial element--it's broader than and predates Asian students being a significant population. I'll acknowledge, however, that there is some overlap with negative Asian stereotypes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Aside from being uncool tryhards, strivers drain some of the joy out of childhood and school by treating it as a desperate competition. This results in an unhealthy, immiserating environment for all students. I'm not concerned with my kids "losing" out at some competition, but I hope they can avoid some of the childhood rat-race that's so prevalent in the DMV. We're moving to a smaller city, so hopefully it will be better.

Uncool tryhards? What are you, 12? If not then you are an utter moron.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Overloading the word Striver with all kinds of negative meaning so that you can justify hating hardworking kids is like overloading the word "White" to mean racist and privileged, so one can feel justified to hate on any white person who does not grovel and become a woke ally

It's stupid. You can't just give any word any meaning and description you want.

The dictionary meaning of Striver is

To devote serious effort or energy
To struggle in opposition

Stop overloading the word with your favorite myths and biases, so that you can thumb your noses at Asian kids who actually embody an exemplary work ethic and teach others the value of delayed gratification

First, I completely disagree with the racial component. Even if there are example of people calling a given Asian a striver, I've heard it applied to many more whites in my day. Second, you can't demand that words not be overloaded. They are. Everyday. That's the world you are in. You need to understand it, or at least send your kid to a college where they take some quality humanities classes and learn some nuance.

The nuanced understanding of striver includes the racial component. Thus all the other references to tiger moms and tiger cubs. You're the one who seems unwilling to understand that you're using a word that is now loaded with a racial overtone.

So which is it? Words only have dictionary definitions, strivers are good, and therefore Asians should want to be strivers. Or words have nuance, and striver is a pejorative that's unfairly applied to Asians. Can't be both.

I wasn't the one who posted the dictionary definition. I agree with you that words can and are used in ways not listed in the dictionary. This is one of them. It's a pejorative that's being applied to Asians by the parents of less accomplished white kids in an attempt to make themselves feel better about their own children. You can't use 'tiger mom' because that's more overtly racist, so you use this instead and then when you get called out on it, you backtrack and claim it's not intended that way or nuanced in some other way. It's probably the same set of rhetorical dodges you use to justify the confederate flag. You adopt racial language but you're not racist. Ok, then.

Well you're being pretty presumptive with 'you' since I haven't called anyone a tiger mom or defended the confederate flag. And you might point out that you are a different poster, because at least then we might come to some consensus that words have meanings beyond the dictionary which, the person I responded to can't accept. It would not be surprising if Asians mostly hear striver used as a pejorative against Asians, but I promise you it's used in many other contexts, too. And I've tried to offer examples in this thread. I even know someone, who is still kicking himself because in an interview ages ago, when asked for one word to describe himself, the only thing that popped into his head was "striver."

You ... hang around people who still kick themselves for a single word used in an interview "ages ago"? Well, more evidence that you have an ... odd frame of reference. BTW, being obsessed that you used the wrong word "ages ago" in an interview (and presumably attributing some lasting failure to that?) kind of slots in to the neurotic achievement orietnation that you claim for "strivers."

Oh, hon, I have you hanging on my every word now, glad to provide you vicarious friendship. Yeah, sharing a self-deprecating story is hardly obsession, and for all I recall it didn't derail a thing. Maybe he is/was a striver, at least he's self aware and sees that's a bad way to put it...which is step above OP and the feigned confusion from half the posters here, and my only point in sharing...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Different PP here, who hasn't posted in a number of pages. But I thought some examples of strivers being described in other contexts negatively might provide some helpful nuance:

"Who wants to be “unwashed” (or should we say, “pre-washed”) if that means being an aggressive tryhard like the “If We Could Be Boring” girl from Thought Catalog circa 2011? Nothing is uncooler than the striver who really wants you to know she drinks Aperol on a fire escape and lives “in a golden house full of only beautiful people.” The “washed” are fine with their red wine and their gardens, because they’re comfortable in their own skins."

https://slate.com/human-interest/2018/07/saying-im-washed-a-la-gqs-zach-baron-is-really-just-another-way-of-saying-im-cool.html

"He is a “prolix, circular” thinker, “more of an intellectual striver than a genuine intellectual,” who extolls Indian slums for their sustainable way of life and preaches against the corrupting allure of “sophistication” while himself living in unfathomable luxe."

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/04/10/where-prince-charles-went-wrong

"Tries Too Hard is the category of do-gooders, poseurs, strivers, and phonies. Cultural aversions to inauthenticity and shamelessness — which we often believe to go hand-in-hand — cause us to revile those whose lives and mannerisms seem rehearsed."

https://www.thecut.com/2013/04/20-most-hated-celebrities-why-we-hate-them.html

On the Smashing Pumpkins: "The band was called out by Pavement in the lyrics to “Range Life,” getting lumped into the same verse as Stone Temple Pilots, who were seen as alt rock’s ultimate strivers."

https://www.spin.com/2013/07/smashing-pumpkins-siamese-dream-20-video-directors-cherub-rock-today-disarm-rocket/

"Since time immemorial, strivers have been kissing up to the prom queen; glad-handing strangers; and hiring claques to astroturf applause. (And some timeless strivers do all of the above, like a certain popular Twitter user who brought a claque to his first meeting with the CIA."

https://www.thecut.com/2017/04/social-media-made-popularity-boring.html

Oh and there's this: "A Running List Of Cowards, Courtiers, Strivers And Suck-Ups" https://www.huffpost.com/entry/white-house-correspondents-dinner-reaction_n_5ae662bfe4b04aa23f243be0

Amusing collection, thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overloading the word Striver with all kinds of negative meaning so that you can justify hating hardworking kids is like overloading the word "White" to mean racist and privileged, so one can feel justified to hate on any white person who does not grovel and become a woke ally

It's stupid. You can't just give any word any meaning and description you want.

The dictionary meaning of Striver is

To devote serious effort or energy
To struggle in opposition

Stop overloading the word with your favorite myths and biases, so that you can thumb your noses at Asian kids who actually embody an exemplary work ethic and teach others the value of delayed gratification

First, I completely disagree with the racial component. Even if there are example of people calling a given Asian a striver, I've heard it applied to many more whites in my day. Second, you can't demand that words not be overloaded. They are. Everyday. That's the world you are in. You need to understand it, or at least send your kid to a college where they take some quality humanities classes and learn some nuance.

The nuanced understanding of striver includes the racial component. Thus all the other references to tiger moms and tiger cubs. You're the one who seems unwilling to understand that you're using a word that is now loaded with a racial overtone.

FFS Asians are not strivers.

This has nothing to do with Asians.

It’s like youre pissed that this is not about Asians.

FFS it is. It's like you want to be able to use a pejorative appellation with racial overtones and get away with it. Somehow I'm not surprised.

Is there just one crazy Asian on this thread or many? You are a cook!

Tiger mom is about Asians.

Strivers is rarely used to describe an Asian. Truthfully Asians are rarely in proximity to people that they can try to strive to be like.

"I'm not a racist!" screams the poster sprinkling racist memes throughout their posts. I'm a cook? That's the best you can do? Why not ask if I own a laundry?

How about this... I am racist and striver still has nothing to do with Asians.

Bad drivers, cheats on tests, Kumon at 5.... yes... Asian, tiger mom but still not a striver.

How about you're too stupid to claim any authority on what the word means? You are the proof that it is about Asians.

Anyone who thinks otherwise and posts that on this board - this is your team.

You have too big of a chip on your should to hear or understand anything. You are the proof it is not about Asians and your narcissistic attempt to make this about you is pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overloading the word Striver with all kinds of negative meaning so that you can justify hating hardworking kids is like overloading the word "White" to mean racist and privileged, so one can feel justified to hate on any white person who does not grovel and become a woke ally

It's stupid. You can't just give any word any meaning and description you want.

The dictionary meaning of Striver is

To devote serious effort or energy
To struggle in opposition

Stop overloading the word with your favorite myths and biases, so that you can thumb your noses at Asian kids who actually embody an exemplary work ethic and teach others the value of delayed gratification

First, I completely disagree with the racial component. Even if there are example of people calling a given Asian a striver, I've heard it applied to many more whites in my day. Second, you can't demand that words not be overloaded. They are. Everyday. That's the world you are in. You need to understand it, or at least send your kid to a college where they take some quality humanities classes and learn some nuance.

The nuanced understanding of striver includes the racial component. Thus all the other references to tiger moms and tiger cubs. You're the one who seems unwilling to understand that you're using a word that is now loaded with a racial overtone.

FFS Asians are not strivers.

This has nothing to do with Asians.

It’s like youre pissed that this is not about Asians.

FFS it is. It's like you want to be able to use a pejorative appellation with racial overtones and get away with it. Somehow I'm not surprised.

Is there just one crazy Asian on this thread or many? You are a cook!

Tiger mom is about Asians.

Strivers is rarely used to describe an Asian. Truthfully Asians are rarely in proximity to people that they can try to strive to be like.

"I'm not a racist!" screams the poster sprinkling racist memes throughout their posts. I'm a cook? That's the best you can do? Why not ask if I own a laundry?

How about this... I am racist and striver still has nothing to do with Asians.

Bad drivers, cheats on tests, Kumon at 5.... yes... Asian, tiger mom but still not a striver.

How about you're too stupid to claim any authority on what the word means? You are the proof that it is about Asians.

Anyone who thinks otherwise and posts that on this board - this is your team.

You have too big of a chip on your should to hear or understand anything. You are the proof it is not about Asians and your narcissistic attempt to make this about you is pathetic.

Truly, you are a sad little person with a large whole in your heart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overloading the word Striver with all kinds of negative meaning so that you can justify hating hardworking kids is like overloading the word "White" to mean racist and privileged, so one can feel justified to hate on any white person who does not grovel and become a woke ally

It's stupid. You can't just give any word any meaning and description you want.

The dictionary meaning of Striver is

To devote serious effort or energy
To struggle in opposition

Stop overloading the word with your favorite myths and biases, so that you can thumb your noses at Asian kids who actually embody an exemplary work ethic and teach others the value of delayed gratification

First, I completely disagree with the racial component. Even if there are example of people calling a given Asian a striver, I've heard it applied to many more whites in my day. Second, you can't demand that words not be overloaded. They are. Everyday. That's the world you are in. You need to understand it, or at least send your kid to a college where they take some quality humanities classes and learn some nuance.

The nuanced understanding of striver includes the racial component. Thus all the other references to tiger moms and tiger cubs. You're the one who seems unwilling to understand that you're using a word that is now loaded with a racial overtone.

FFS Asians are not strivers.

This has nothing to do with Asians.

It’s like youre pissed that this is not about Asians.

FFS it is. It's like you want to be able to use a pejorative appellation with racial overtones and get away with it. Somehow I'm not surprised.

Is there just one crazy Asian on this thread or many? You are a cook!

Tiger mom is about Asians.

Strivers is rarely used to describe an Asian. Truthfully Asians are rarely in proximity to people that they can try to strive to be like.

"I'm not a racist!" screams the poster sprinkling racist memes throughout their posts. I'm a cook? That's the best you can do? Why not ask if I own a laundry?

How about this... I am racist and striver still has nothing to do with Asians.

Bad drivers, cheats on tests, Kumon at 5.... yes... Asian, tiger mom but still not a striver.

How about you're too stupid to claim any authority on what the word means? You are the proof that it is about Asians.

Anyone who thinks otherwise and posts that on this board - this is your team.

You have too big of a chip on your should to hear or understand anything. You are the proof it is not about Asians and your narcissistic attempt to make this about you is pathetic.

Truly, you are a sad little person with a large whole in your heart.

Hole... back to studying... sorry your kid did not get into an Ivy, he can still be a doctor though .. it’s fine relax.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overloading the word Striver with all kinds of negative meaning so that you can justify hating hardworking kids is like overloading the word "White" to mean racist and privileged, so one can feel justified to hate on any white person who does not grovel and become a woke ally

It's stupid. You can't just give any word any meaning and description you want.

The dictionary meaning of Striver is

To devote serious effort or energy
To struggle in opposition

Stop overloading the word with your favorite myths and biases, so that you can thumb your noses at Asian kids who actually embody an exemplary work ethic and teach others the value of delayed gratification

First, I completely disagree with the racial component. Even if there are example of people calling a given Asian a striver, I've heard it applied to many more whites in my day. Second, you can't demand that words not be overloaded. They are. Everyday. That's the world you are in. You need to understand it, or at least send your kid to a college where they take some quality humanities classes and learn some nuance.

The nuanced understanding of striver includes the racial component. Thus all the other references to tiger moms and tiger cubs. You're the one who seems unwilling to understand that you're using a word that is now loaded with a racial overtone.

FFS Asians are not strivers.

This has nothing to do with Asians.

It’s like youre pissed that this is not about Asians.

FFS it is. It's like you want to be able to use a pejorative appellation with racial overtones and get away with it. Somehow I'm not surprised.

Is there just one crazy Asian on this thread or many? You are a cook!

Tiger mom is about Asians.

Strivers is rarely used to describe an Asian. Truthfully Asians are rarely in proximity to people that they can try to strive to be like.

"I'm not a racist!" screams the poster sprinkling racist memes throughout their posts. I'm a cook? That's the best you can do? Why not ask if I own a laundry?

How about this... I am racist and striver still has nothing to do with Asians.

Bad drivers, cheats on tests, Kumon at 5.... yes... Asian, tiger mom but still not a striver.

How about you're too stupid to claim any authority on what the word means? You are the proof that it is about Asians.

Anyone who thinks otherwise and posts that on this board - this is your team.

You have too big of a chip on your should to hear or understand anything. You are the proof it is not about Asians and your narcissistic attempt to make this about you is pathetic.

Truly, you are a sad little person with a large whole in your heart.

Hole... back to studying... sorry your kid did not get into an Ivy, he can still be a doctor though .. it’s fine relax.

DP here. I agree with the PP...you do seem seriously sad and pathetic. Why don't you give it a break and maybe read a good book...take your mind off your weird obsessions.

[Anonymous]

Strivers, to me, are children of and bonkers tiger parents, but without the prestige of original tiger mom and dad, who are tenured Yale Law School professors.

Annoying middle class sheep who lie and backstab people and claw to get “ahead”. Their parents, like many in this thread, Google stalk parents at their kids’ schools, in an attempt to push their grubby kids into higher social circles. Of course their desperation is obvious to everyone. Unstable lunatics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Strivers, to me, are children of and bonkers tiger parents, but without the prestige of original tiger mom and dad, who are tenured Yale Law School professors.

Annoying middle class sheep who lie and backstab people and claw to get “ahead”. Their parents, like many in this thread, Google stalk parents at their kids’ schools, in an attempt to push their grubby kids into higher social circles. Of course their desperation is obvious to everyone. Unstable lunatics.

Wait, so your definition is strictly based on socioeconomic class. Got it.

[Anonymous]

The notion that it’s inauthentic/overly aggressive to aspire to upward mobility is the key to understanding this discourse. It’s promulgated by people who didn’t earn their own position (it came to them “naturally”) and who are afraid of their own kids being downwardly mobile because they are facing competition from people who are smarter and work harder. How dare these “grubby” people aspire to “higher social circles?!”

So yeah, it’s entitled and yeah, it’s racialized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The notion that it’s inauthentic/overly aggressive to aspire to upward mobility is the key to understanding this discourse. It’s promulgated by people who didn’t earn their own position (it came to them “naturally”) and who are afraid of their own kids being downwardly mobile because they are facing competition from people who are smarter and work harder. How dare these “grubby” people aspire to “higher social circles?!”

So yeah, it’s entitled and yeah, it’s racialized.

NP. Nailed it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The notion that it’s inauthentic/overly aggressive to aspire to upward mobility is the key to understanding this discourse. It’s promulgated by people who didn’t earn their own position (it came to them “naturally”) and who are afraid of their own kids being downwardly mobile because they are facing competition from people who are smarter and work harder. How dare these “grubby” people aspire to “higher social circles?!”

So yeah, it’s entitled and yeah, it’s racialized.

NP. Nailed it.

- I'm a white person who oscillates between being laid back and trying to be a striver but am too scattered to be an effective striver.

- It's really important, for our survival, for us to have a mix of laid-back families and striver families, and laid-back kids and striver kids. One approach will work in many circumstances, but others in other circumstances. Sometimes the kids who relentlessly play by the rules save us, and sometimes the kids who kept transferring schools and changing majors save us.

- I think we have to shape the gameboard so the main players are, frankly, upper-income/middle-income white people, Asians, and maybe very successful African Americans. The idea that Asian American kids feel as if they have to do better to get into good colleges is horrific. That's just plain wrong. But the idea that all of next year's African-American freshmen at Stuyvesant High School in New York will fit in a van is wrong, too. And the idea poor white kids from rural schools with weak gifted and AP programs are being treated as if they were to the manor born is wrong.