APS Transgender Policy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IF teens haven't hit puberty or are taking hormones which suppress puberty in order to transition than aren't you not going to have the biological differences that folks are concerned about re: sports?

I don't think it is as simple as no XY females in women's sports.

XY females have advantages even if taking male hormone suppressants. See, eg, http://www.sdcenterforhealth.com/topics/159-male-versus-female-athlete-considerations

At this point, we just don’t have the science and medicine to take away all those advantages that come with being born XY. It sucks for XY girls/women, but
I don’t think that XX girls/women should be the ones to bear the unfairness and lose out because of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You sure spend a lot of time pondering your family's comfort.

Answering your children's questions as they grow and are exposed to others is a role you should be choosing without making excuses. Do you need a manual?

There are certain topics that should not be discussed in school --especially with the very young.

I remember teaching first grade on a team with a --not so smart- colleague who was pregnant.
She told our team at a meeting one day that the kids had asked her how the baby was going to get out! She told them that the baby would come out where a girl goes to the bathroom.
The rest of us had our mouths dropped open......
There are some things better left to parents.

Okay. First grade. 6 or 7. These kids should have known already. And what should the teacher have said? The stork was going to pop it out of her belly? It was going to appear out of her belly like that creature from Alien? I mean, that is not sex. That is biology. I can't believe that you were somehow shocked by this answer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m fine with everything but the sports. APS administration is tripping over itself with a bit of virtue signaling, as usual, but I think normalizing and correcting trans issues/problems within the system is a good thing.

No to birth males participating in girls’/women’s sports.

+1.

That should be the rule.

For sports you belong with your biological sex, not your self-chosen gender identity.

I'm not a 20-year-old Jamaican just because I may think I am and I smoke tons of weed with Kamala Harris.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You sure spend a lot of time pondering your family's comfort.

Answering your children's questions as they grow and are exposed to others is a role you should be choosing without making excuses. Do you need a manual?

There are certain topics that should not be discussed in school --especially with the very young.

I remember teaching first grade on a team with a --not so smart- colleague who was pregnant.
She told our team at a meeting one day that the kids had asked her how the baby was going to get out! She told them that the baby would come out where a girl goes to the bathroom.
The rest of us had our mouths dropped open......
There are some things better left to parents.

Okay. First grade. 6 or 7. These kids should have known already. And what should the teacher have said? The stork was going to pop it out of her belly? It was going to appear out of her belly like that creature from Alien? I mean, that is not sex. That is biology. I can't believe that you were somehow shocked by this answer

+1. What was the teacher supposed to say? Was she supposed to lie to the kids or get all weird and quiet about it and tell the kids to talk to their parents?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You sure spend a lot of time pondering your family's comfort.

Answering your children's questions as they grow and are exposed to others is a role you should be choosing without making excuses. Do you need a manual?

There are certain topics that should not be discussed in school --especially with the very young.

I remember teaching first grade on a team with a --not so smart- colleague who was pregnant.
She told our team at a meeting one day that the kids had asked her how the baby was going to get out! She told them that the baby would come out where a girl goes to the bathroom.
The rest of us had our mouths dropped open......
There are some things better left to parents.

Okay. First grade. 6 or 7. These kids should have known already. And what should the teacher have said? The stork was going to pop it out of her belly? It was going to appear out of her belly like that creature from Alien? I mean, that is not sex. That is biology. I can't believe that you were somehow shocked by this answer

+1. What was the teacher supposed to say? Was she supposed to lie to the kids or get all weird and quiet about it and tell the kids to talk to their parents?

Yeah, I have zero problem with this. That is where babies come from. It isn't a lie and it isn't dirty or sexual it is just science.

[Anonymous]

Okay. First grade. 6 or 7. These kids should have known already. And what should the teacher have said? The stork was going to pop it out of her belly? It was going to appear out of her belly like that creature from Alien? I mean, that is not sex. That is biology. I can't believe that you were somehow shocked by this answer


+1. What was the teacher supposed to say? Was she supposed to lie to the kids or get all weird and quiet about it and tell the kids to talk to their parents?


Yeah, I have zero problem with this. That is where babies come from. It isn't a lie and it isn't dirty or sexual it is just science.

Disagree. First graders are easily deflected. She could have said there is a special place where the baby comes out. But, in reality, she should not have been encouraging questions to start with. And, factually, it was incorrect--the baby does not come out of "where you go to the bathroom."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Okay. First grade. 6 or 7. These kids should have known already. And what should the teacher have said? The stork was going to pop it out of her belly? It was going to appear out of her belly like that creature from Alien? I mean, that is not sex. That is biology. I can't believe that you were somehow shocked by this answer


+1. What was the teacher supposed to say? Was she supposed to lie to the kids or get all weird and quiet about it and tell the kids to talk to their parents?


Yeah, I have zero problem with this. That is where babies come from. It isn't a lie and it isn't dirty or sexual it is just science.

Disagree. First graders are easily deflected. She could have said there is a special place where the baby comes out. But, in reality, she should not have been encouraging questions to start with. And, factually, it was incorrect--the baby does not come out of "where you go to the bathroom."

Oh well. Hopefully the peehole baby is doing well and the kids received factual instruction at some point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IF teens haven't hit puberty or are taking hormones which suppress puberty in order to transition than aren't you not going to have the biological differences that folks are concerned about re: sports?

I don't think it is as simple as no XY females in women's sports.

XY females have advantages even if taking male hormone suppressants. See, eg, http://www.sdcenterforhealth.com/topics/159-male-versus-female-athlete-considerations

At this point, we just don’t have the science and medicine to take away all those advantages that come with being born XY. It sucks for XY girls/women, but
I don’t think that XX girls/women should be the ones to bear the unfairness and lose out because of it.

Say there's a HS tennis match and the 15 top HS female tennis players from across the state have qualified to compete for the state championship in singles. Nine are XX and one is XY and the XY wins. In making it "fair" for the one XY, you have made it unfair for the fourteen XX. That is wrong. XY needs to compete with XY until and. if ever,science takes away the physical advantages of athletes who are born XY.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IF teens haven't hit puberty or are taking hormones which suppress puberty in order to transition than aren't you not going to have the biological differences that folks are concerned about re: sports?

I don't think it is as simple as no XY females in women's sports.

XY females have advantages even if taking male hormone suppressants. See, eg, http://www.sdcenterforhealth.com/topics/159-male-versus-female-athlete-considerations

At this point, we just don’t have the science and medicine to take away all those advantages that come with being born XY. It sucks for XY girls/women, but
I don’t think that XX girls/women should be the ones to bear the unfairness and lose out because of it.

Say there's a HS tennis match and the 15 top HS female tennis players from across the state have qualified to compete for the state championship in singles. Nine are XX and one is XY and the XY wins. In making it "fair" for the one XY, you have made it unfair for the fourteen XX. That is wrong. XY needs to compete with XY until and. if ever,science takes away the physical advantages of athletes who are born XY.

Typo

Say there's a HS tennis match and the 15 top HS female tennis players from across the state have qualified to compete for the state championship in singles. Fourteen are XX and one is XY and the XY wins. In making it "fair" for the one XY, you have made it unfair for the fourteen XX. That is wrong. XY needs to compete with XY until and. if ever,science takes away the physical advantages of athletes who are born XY.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IF teens haven't hit puberty or are taking hormones which suppress puberty in order to transition than aren't you not going to have the biological differences that folks are concerned about re: sports?

I don't think it is as simple as no XY females in women's sports.

XY females have advantages even if taking male hormone suppressants. See, eg, http://www.sdcenterforhealth.com/topics/159-male-versus-female-athlete-considerations

At this point, we just don’t have the science and medicine to take away all those advantages that come with being born XY. It sucks for XY girls/women, but
I don’t think that XX girls/women should be the ones to bear the unfairness and lose out because of it.

Say there's a HS tennis match and the 15 top HS female tennis players from across the state have qualified to compete for the state championship in singles. Nine are XX and one is XY and the XY wins. In making it "fair" for the one XY, you have made it unfair for the fourteen XX. That is wrong. XY needs to compete with XY until and. if ever,science takes away the physical advantages of athletes who are born XY.

Typo

Say there's a HS tennis match and the 15 top HS female tennis players from across the state have qualified to compete for the state championship in singles. Fourteen are XX and one is XY and the XY wins. In making it "fair" for the one XY, you have made it unfair for the fourteen XX. That is wrong. XY needs to compete with XY until and. if ever,science takes away the physical advantages of athletes who are born XY.

Agreed. I can’t imagine being a MTF athlete and feeling good about winning in competitions with xx girls or women, ever. Not only will there always be the stated or unstated beliefs from others that the competition was inherently unfair, but there would also be my own awareness that I won by competing against people who are not my physical peers. Where is the satisfaction or pride in that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FYI - there is a lot more to this policy change than just sports.

https://arlingtonparentcoa.wixsite.com/arlingtonparentcoa/agia-policy-proposal-aps-working-do

I wasn't at the meeting that these notes were taken at but I do find many of the points concerning. It seems as though APS is planning on leaving parents out of the conversation when it comes to transgender students. While I understand that not every student has a good relationship with their parents or feels safe enough with them to talk to them about this issue, I think it's an unfair response to decide to leave all parents out.

Recently with the Ashlawn read across America day event (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/in-a-virginia-school-a-celebration-of-transgender-students-in-a-kindergarten-class/2019/03/03/10fc9f90-3b7e-11e9-a06c-3ec8ed509d15_story.html?utm_term=.b635cbc71edb) I was most surprised to hear about it via Arlington Now and the Washington Post rather than from the school. While my kids aren't in the classrooms that are involved, it would be nice to know that some of their classmates are involved in school sanctioned conversations about the topic so I'm not surprised when they come home asking questions about something they heard from a friend.

It's also concerning to me that students will be the ones who make the final decision about being comfortable rooming with a transgender student. While I think it's good that staff take the kids opinions into consideration, I feel totally comfortable shouldering the blame if my child isn't comfortable with the situation but also doesn't want to say it outright. I think it puts parents and minor students in an awkward situation...

Lots of things to think about and consider. Most of the policies I don't have a huge problem with. I do worry about how necessary it is to start talking to specifically about the topic to kindergarteners without the express permission of parents though.

I would have a real problem with this part of the proposed policy.

? Under no circumstances can a parent refuse to have their child room with a transgender student based on gender identity and/or expression if their child has agreed to the arrangement.

How is that supposed to be acceptable to parents?

?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think “destroying women’s sports” is a little overstating it because transgender folks are a tiny percentage of the population. And it would have to be male to female and play sports and be good. That’s a lot of ands. But, you could just make the guidelines based on sex, not gender. Gender is fluid.

I have boys so no immediate dogs in this fight. My boys wrestle. Girls wrestle in the league as well. Some of them are really really good. They have different strengths than the boys but they definitely have real strengths. Don’t count the girls out.

I agree.
And to the PP who stated “they are women now,” NO, they aren’t biologically female. And that matters in things like sports. And if no one should care about winning, why does the transgender person want/need to compete or try to win? Why is it fair to disadvantage the many XX females, but not the very few XY MTF people? They should be allowed to compete against other biological males.

+1.

Sports is biology, not BS social science.

If a man wants to compete as a woman, there should be a comprehensive battery of tests, at all biological levels, to make sure she is a woman, same as all other women.

Simple and fair.

Currently they do internationally.

In the past the East Germans were famous for giving their women male hormones and winning everything. From a sports perspective, it's similar to what will happen again. In spades, this time, biological men will compete directly against women. It was unfair then, it's unfair now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FYI - there is a lot more to this policy change than just sports.

https://arlingtonparentcoa.wixsite.com/arlingtonparentcoa/agia-policy-proposal-aps-working-do

I wasn't at the meeting that these notes were taken at but I do find many of the points concerning. It seems as though APS is planning on leaving parents out of the conversation when it comes to transgender students. While I understand that not every student has a good relationship with their parents or feels safe enough with them to talk to them about this issue, I think it's an unfair response to decide to leave all parents out.

Recently with the Ashlawn read across America day event (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/in-a-virginia-school-a-celebration-of-transgender-students-in-a-kindergarten-class/2019/03/03/10fc9f90-3b7e-11e9-a06c-3ec8ed509d15_story.html?utm_term=.b635cbc71edb) I was most surprised to hear about it via Arlington Now and the Washington Post rather than from the school. While my kids aren't in the classrooms that are involved, it would be nice to know that some of their classmates are involved in school sanctioned conversations about the topic so I'm not surprised when they come home asking questions about something they heard from a friend.

It's also concerning to me that students will be the ones who make the final decision about being comfortable rooming with a transgender student. While I think it's good that staff take the kids opinions into consideration, I feel totally comfortable shouldering the blame if my child isn't comfortable with the situation but also doesn't want to say it outright. I think it puts parents and minor students in an awkward situation...

Lots of things to think about and consider. Most of the policies I don't have a huge problem with. I do worry about how necessary it is to start talking to specifically about the topic to kindergarteners without the express permission of parents though.

I would have a real problem with this part of the proposed policy.

? Under no circumstances can a parent refuse to have their child room with a transgender student based on gender identity and/or expression if their child has agreed to the arrangement.

How is that supposed to be acceptable to parents?

?

Seems fine to me. I don’t see the point of forcing kids to be intolerant and embarrassing them just because their parents are. If you replaced the term “transgender” with another protected basis (race, disability), would it still seem problematic to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FYI - there is a lot more to this policy change than just sports.

https://arlingtonparentcoa.wixsite.com/arlingtonparentcoa/agia-policy-proposal-aps-working-do

I wasn't at the meeting that these notes were taken at but I do find many of the points concerning. It seems as though APS is planning on leaving parents out of the conversation when it comes to transgender students. While I understand that not every student has a good relationship with their parents or feels safe enough with them to talk to them about this issue, I think it's an unfair response to decide to leave all parents out.

Recently with the Ashlawn read across America day event (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/in-a-virginia-school-a-celebration-of-transgender-students-in-a-kindergarten-class/2019/03/03/10fc9f90-3b7e-11e9-a06c-3ec8ed509d15_story.html?utm_term=.b635cbc71edb) I was most surprised to hear about it via Arlington Now and the Washington Post rather than from the school. While my kids aren't in the classrooms that are involved, it would be nice to know that some of their classmates are involved in school sanctioned conversations about the topic so I'm not surprised when they come home asking questions about something they heard from a friend.

It's also concerning to me that students will be the ones who make the final decision about being comfortable rooming with a transgender student. While I think it's good that staff take the kids opinions into consideration, I feel totally comfortable shouldering the blame if my child isn't comfortable with the situation but also doesn't want to say it outright. I think it puts parents and minor students in an awkward situation...

Lots of things to think about and consider. Most of the policies I don't have a huge problem with. I do worry about how necessary it is to start talking to specifically about the topic to kindergarteners without the express permission of parents though.

I would have a real problem with this part of the proposed policy.

? Under no circumstances can a parent refuse to have their child room with a transgender student based on gender identity and/or expression if their child has agreed to the arrangement.

How is that supposed to be acceptable to parents?

?

Seems fine to me. I don’t see the point of forcing kids to be intolerant and embarrassing them just because their parents are. If you replaced the term “transgender” with another protected basis (race, disability), would it still seem problematic to you?

And this is why Arlington is the least tolerant place to live and why people won’t speak out against this. There are many non-anti-transgender reasons a parent might not like these policies. Even mention not being 100% on board and you are racist, sexist, a deplorable etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FYI - there is a lot more to this policy change than just sports.

https://arlingtonparentcoa.wixsite.com/arlingtonparentcoa/agia-policy-proposal-aps-working-do

I wasn't at the meeting that these notes were taken at but I do find many of the points concerning. It seems as though APS is planning on leaving parents out of the conversation when it comes to transgender students. While I understand that not every student has a good relationship with their parents or feels safe enough with them to talk to them about this issue, I think it's an unfair response to decide to leave all parents out.

Recently with the Ashlawn read across America day event (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/in-a-virginia-school-a-celebration-of-transgender-students-in-a-kindergarten-class/2019/03/03/10fc9f90-3b7e-11e9-a06c-3ec8ed509d15_story.html?utm_term=.b635cbc71edb) I was most surprised to hear about it via Arlington Now and the Washington Post rather than from the school. While my kids aren't in the classrooms that are involved, it would be nice to know that some of their classmates are involved in school sanctioned conversations about the topic so I'm not surprised when they come home asking questions about something they heard from a friend.

It's also concerning to me that students will be the ones who make the final decision about being comfortable rooming with a transgender student. While I think it's good that staff take the kids opinions into consideration, I feel totally comfortable shouldering the blame if my child isn't comfortable with the situation but also doesn't want to say it outright. I think it puts parents and minor students in an awkward situation...

Lots of things to think about and consider. Most of the policies I don't have a huge problem with. I do worry about how necessary it is to start talking to specifically about the topic to kindergarteners without the express permission of parents though.

I would have a real problem with this part of the proposed policy.

? Under no circumstances can a parent refuse to have their child room with a transgender student based on gender identity and/or expression if their child has agreed to the arrangement.

How is that supposed to be acceptable to parents?



?

Parents don’t have to consent to their child going on the trip if they’re not comfortable with the sleeping arrangements.