MS Magnet admissions: are CES students at a disadvantage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the poster who said this, because it was told to us at the Magnet MS meeting. I came to the same conclusion, as did many other parents. Most of the parents at my DC's CES took the Magnet test, but are most likely going to stick with the home MS. At the Magnet MS meeting, they very much portrayed the MS Magnets as a place for high performing kids from lower performing MSs to come together. I did not get the impression that TPMS/Eastern are looking for the 'best and the brightest' or the highest performing kids in the County. It aligns with the MCPS main goal of closing the achievement gap, and helps them identify the students from these lower performing MSs who are motivated to do better.

You may not have intended this, PP, but your post sounds like sour grapes met up with elitism for coffee.

Umm, okay? I have no idea what you're trying to say. What sounds like sour grapes, and what sounds like elitism? Feel free to let me know and I can respond to clarify anything you may have misunderstood.

"I don't expect my kid to get into the magnet program, but that's ok, because it's not for the very smartest kids anyway, it's for smart-enough kids from bad middle schools, and my kid is at a good middle school."

Some other posters posted in between, but I'm the PP who is being accused of sour grapes.

Look, I have no agenda here, other than my kid is in a 5th grade CES, so I've attended the meetings and talked to parents/teachers about what's going on for the MS Magnet program for next year. I think the PP accusing me of sour grapes is making some huge and untrue assumptions about me and my kid!

My kid is actually one of those high performing kids zoned for a lower performing MS, so she has a pretty decent chance of getting in. We are not at a W-school, and our MS is average at best. We've been giving it a lot of thought because a one hour bus ride to be with the super-high performing kids might be worth it, but other than that, maybe not so much.

Definitely probable that my kid won't get in, so we've also applied to the MSMC lottery (again, because our home MS is not that great).

And, DC has talked to other kids in her CES who are zoned for 'better' MSs. Many have said they don't plan to attend, though some are still interested. And, I've talked to several parents.

You can think what you want, and I'm certainly not trying to push for anything. Other than I'd like it if they expanded offerings for ALL high performing kids, instead of the ridiculous system being the way it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the poster who said this, because it was told to us at the Magnet MS meeting. I came to the same conclusion, as did many other parents. Most of the parents at my DC's CES took the Magnet test, but are most likely going to stick with the home MS. At the Magnet MS meeting, they very much portrayed the MS Magnets as a place for high performing kids from lower performing MSs to come together. I did not get the impression that TPMS/Eastern are looking for the 'best and the brightest' or the highest performing kids in the County. It aligns with the MCPS main goal of closing the achievement gap, and helps them identify the students from these lower performing MSs who are motivated to do better.

I'm confused about why parents are "most likely going to stick with the home MS". I've seen this posted a couple of times recently. Are these parents who in past years would have applied and sent their kids to the magnet, or are they families that would not previously have considered the magnets because of the logistics involved? If they are parents who previously would have sent kids but now wouldn't consider it, do they really think that the quality of the program is being degraded enough to not make it worthwhile? The magnets still offer unique curriculum opportunities for a set of high-ability students. Are the parents turned off by the fact that these may not be the absolute highest-ability students (even if they are still highly qualified)? Or are the parents reconsidering their home MS as a good option in light of the identification of a "peer group" of highly qualified students and the potential for enrichment classes there? I'm really curious about this and would love to hear from parents who previously would have sent kids but now won't.

This is anecdotal but just to give you an examples so you understand how people feel about these changes. I recently met a group of mothers with kids in a high school Magnet. Four of them also had kids in elementary school and only one was planning to let their kid apply to the magnet middle school. Two were pulling their kids out of MCPS and one was going to keep their kid in their home middle school. The reason given was the new selection criteria and their concern about the quality of the program. They were all zoned for middle schools that have experienced discrimination in the last selection process.
All of us agreed that the Magnet programs have been wonderful for our children. The three who are leaving mcps were willing to send their kids to the high school magnets if the selection process etc stays the same.

[Anonymous]

Last year it seemed the CES kids all took the Magnet test in their home schools during a regular school day. Others had to drive to Blair on a cold Saturday. Just say'n CES is still the inside track. 335 CES kids last year took 25% of the TPMS spots while the other 3700 kids in the pool took the other 75% of the slots.

[Anonymous]

This is anecdotal but just to give you an examples so you understand how people feel about these changes. I recently met a group of mothers with kids in a high school Magnet. Four of them also had kids in elementary school and only one was planning to let their kid apply to the magnet middle school. Two were pulling their kids out of MCPS and one was going to keep their kid in their home middle school. The reason given was the new selection criteria and their concern about the quality of the program. They were all zoned for middle schools that have experienced discrimination in the last selection process.
All of us agreed that the Magnet programs have been wonderful for our children. The three who are leaving mcps were willing to send their kids to the high school magnets if the selection process etc stays the same.

Folks must have money to burn if they are willing to pull their kids out of public school based on nothing but rumors. We are three months into the very first cohort selected under the new admissions criteria. Let's not declare the whole thing a failure quite yet, and let's not assume the "quality of the program" will go down because the system is testing more kids and prioritizing kids who otherwise would not have a peer group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, at the Magnet meeting, the MCPS representatives very very clearly stated that the Magnet is not for the highest performing students any more. It is for high performing kids, who attend a MS that does not have many other high performing kids.

Is this also true for the High School Magnets?

Kind of, but not quite yet.

For all parents of actual gifted kids - APPEAL.

This, especially if your child is at CES and scores in the 99th percentile on the magnet test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Last year it seemed the CES kids all took the Magnet test in their home schools during a regular school day. Others had to drive to Blair on a cold Saturday. Just say'n CES is still the inside track. 335 CES kids last year took 25% of the TPMS spots while the other 3700 kids in the pool took the other 75% of the slots.

That’s what I was thinking. This statistics shared in this thread indicate that CES students are disproportionately likely to be admitted to the competitive MS magnets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This is anecdotal but just to give you an examples so you understand how people feel about these changes. I recently met a group of mothers with kids in a high school Magnet. Four of them also had kids in elementary school and only one was planning to let their kid apply to the magnet middle school. Two were pulling their kids out of MCPS and one was going to keep their kid in their home middle school. The reason given was the new selection criteria and their concern about the quality of the program. They were all zoned for middle schools that have experienced discrimination in the last selection process.
All of us agreed that the Magnet programs have been wonderful for our children. The three who are leaving mcps were willing to send their kids to the high school magnets if the selection process etc stays the same.

Folks must have money to burn if they are willing to pull their kids out of public school based on nothing but rumors. We are three months into the very first cohort selected under the new admissions criteria. Let's not declare the whole thing a failure quite yet, and let's not assume the "quality of the program" will go down because the system is testing more kids and prioritizing kids who otherwise would not have a peer group.

These are parents who know first hand how important it is to have a class full of the very best students. It is the peer group that allows teachers to simultaneously go fast and deep and still make it fun

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year it seemed the CES kids all took the Magnet test in their home schools during a regular school day. Others had to drive to Blair on a cold Saturday. Just say'n CES is still the inside track. 335 CES kids last year took 25% of the TPMS spots while the other 3700 kids in the pool took the other 75% of the slots.

That’s what I was thinking. This statistics shared in this thread indicate that CES students are disproportionately likely to be admitted to the competitive MS magnets.

The CES are supposed to have the top 3-5% of MCPS students so they should be doing much better

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Last year it seemed the CES kids all took the Magnet test in their home schools during a regular school day. Others had to drive to Blair on a cold Saturday. Just say'n CES is still the inside track. 335 CES kids last year took 25% of the TPMS spots while the other 3700 kids in the pool took the other 75% of the slots.

This year our ES offered the MS Magnet test AT the school. As did several other ESs that we know of (talking to other parents).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the poster who said this, because it was told to us at the Magnet MS meeting. I came to the same conclusion, as did many other parents. Most of the parents at my DC's CES took the Magnet test, but are most likely going to stick with the home MS. At the Magnet MS meeting, they very much portrayed the MS Magnets as a place for high performing kids from lower performing MSs to come together. I did not get the impression that TPMS/Eastern are looking for the 'best and the brightest' or the highest performing kids in the County. It aligns with the MCPS main goal of closing the achievement gap, and helps them identify the students from these lower performing MSs who are motivated to do better.

I'm confused about why parents are "most likely going to stick with the home MS". I've seen this posted a couple of times recently. Are these parents who in past years would have applied and sent their kids to the magnet, or are they families that would not previously have considered the magnets because of the logistics involved? If they are parents who previously would have sent kids but now wouldn't consider it, do they really think that the quality of the program is being degraded enough to not make it worthwhile? The magnets still offer unique curriculum opportunities for a set of high-ability students. Are the parents turned off by the fact that these may not be the absolute highest-ability students (even if they are still highly qualified)? Or are the parents reconsidering their home MS as a good option in light of the identification of a "peer group" of highly qualified students and the potential for enrichment classes there? I'm really curious about this and would love to hear from parents who previously would have sent kids but now won't.

I think it's a combination of various things.

I can't speak for everyone, but for the other parents we've talked to at the CES, it's mostly that the trade off of a long commute isn't worth it anymore. The MS Magnet used to be the very best and brightest kids in the county. And, for that, it was worth an hour commute. But, now the MS Magnet has become something slightly different. Not necessarily better or worse, but most parents at our CES have decided that it's not worth the commute.

[Anonymous]

PP again

Also, I think you need to ask again in February, after kids actually get accepted. It's all somewhat hypothetical now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the poster who said this, because it was told to us at the Magnet MS meeting. I came to the same conclusion, as did many other parents. Most of the parents at my DC's CES took the Magnet test, but are most likely going to stick with the home MS. At the Magnet MS meeting, they very much portrayed the MS Magnets as a place for high performing kids from lower performing MSs to come together. I did not get the impression that TPMS/Eastern are looking for the 'best and the brightest' or the highest performing kids in the County. It aligns with the MCPS main goal of closing the achievement gap, and helps them identify the students from these lower performing MSs who are motivated to do better.

I'm confused about why parents are "most likely going to stick with the home MS". I've seen this posted a couple of times recently. Are these parents who in past years would have applied and sent their kids to the magnet, or are they families that would not previously have considered the magnets because of the logistics involved? If they are parents who previously would have sent kids but now wouldn't consider it, do they really think that the quality of the program is being degraded enough to not make it worthwhile? The magnets still offer unique curriculum opportunities for a set of high-ability students. Are the parents turned off by the fact that these may not be the absolute highest-ability students (even if they are still highly qualified)? Or are the parents reconsidering their home MS as a good option in light of the identification of a "peer group" of highly qualified students and the potential for enrichment classes there? I'm really curious about this and would love to hear from parents who previously would have sent kids but now won't.

This is anecdotal but just to give you an examples so you understand how people feel about these changes. I recently met a group of mothers with kids in a high school Magnet. Four of them also had kids in elementary school and only one was planning to let their kid apply to the magnet middle school. Two were pulling their kids out of MCPS and one was going to keep their kid in their home middle school. The reason given was the new selection criteria and their concern about the quality of the program. They were all zoned for middle schools that have experienced discrimination in the last selection process.
All of us agreed that the Magnet programs have been wonderful for our children. The three who are leaving mcps were willing to send their kids to the high school magnets if the selection process etc stays the same.

You know that you don't have to 'apply' to MS magnets any longer, don't you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This is anecdotal but just to give you an examples so you understand how people feel about these changes. I recently met a group of mothers with kids in a high school Magnet. Four of them also had kids in elementary school and only one was planning to let their kid apply to the magnet middle school. Two were pulling their kids out of MCPS and one was going to keep their kid in their home middle school. The reason given was the new selection criteria and their concern about the quality of the program. They were all zoned for middle schools that have experienced discrimination in the last selection process.
All of us agreed that the Magnet programs have been wonderful for our children. The three who are leaving mcps were willing to send their kids to the high school magnets if the selection process etc stays the same.

Folks must have money to burn if they are willing to pull their kids out of public school based on nothing but rumors. We are three months into the very first cohort selected under the new admissions criteria. Let's not declare the whole thing a failure quite yet, and let's not assume the "quality of the program" will go down because the system is testing more kids and prioritizing kids who otherwise would not have a peer group.

I agree. The great things about the magnet are teachers who are used to doing things in a more integrated and project-based way, who are enthusiastic about their subjects, and students who are bright and hard-working/motivated/intellectually curious. I don't think either of those elements has changed. It doesn't have to be the top X% to be a more engaged, focused, fast-paced cohort than what you would get at the home middle school. And it never was the top X% of the whole system, because it was taken from the smaller pool of those who chose to apply. I don't think there is evidence (yet) to support the position that the MS magnets have changed significantly to accommodate a different group of students. I read one thread where a teacher posted that they were concerned at first about admitting students with lower scores, but that the cohort this year has shown themselves to be plenty up for the challenge. I do think that the 2 magnet-style classes added at many home schools could possibly tip the balance in some people's calculations as the commute is a major detraction for people in certain areas of the County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the poster who said this, because it was told to us at the Magnet MS meeting. I came to the same conclusion, as did many other parents. Most of the parents at my DC's CES took the Magnet test, but are most likely going to stick with the home MS. At the Magnet MS meeting, they very much portrayed the MS Magnets as a place for high performing kids from lower performing MSs to come together. I did not get the impression that TPMS/Eastern are looking for the 'best and the brightest' or the highest performing kids in the County. It aligns with the MCPS main goal of closing the achievement gap, and helps them identify the students from these lower performing MSs who are motivated to do better.

I'm confused about why parents are "most likely going to stick with the home MS". I've seen this posted a couple of times recently. Are these parents who in past years would have applied and sent their kids to the magnet, or are they families that would not previously have considered the magnets because of the logistics involved? If they are parents who previously would have sent kids but now wouldn't consider it, do they really think that the quality of the program is being degraded enough to not make it worthwhile? The magnets still offer unique curriculum opportunities for a set of high-ability students. Are the parents turned off by the fact that these may not be the absolute highest-ability students (even if they are still highly qualified)? Or are the parents reconsidering their home MS as a good option in light of the identification of a "peer group" of highly qualified students and the potential for enrichment classes there? I'm really curious about this and would love to hear from parents who previously would have sent kids but now won't.

I think it's a combination of various things.

I can't speak for everyone, but for the other parents we've talked to at the CES, it's mostly that the trade off of a long commute isn't worth it anymore. The MS Magnet used to be the very best and brightest kids in the county. And, for that, it was worth an hour commute. But, now the MS Magnet has become something slightly different. Not necessarily better or worse, but most parents at our CES have decided that it's not worth the commute.

Have a 6th Grader - we went through the process last year from a CES before we knew the full story on the changes in the admission process, or that enriched classes in home middle schools would happen. My DC still did not want to do MS Magnet because of two factors (1) a friend who said it sucked up all free time, impacted sleep, and was the wrong decision and (2) long commute (which DC had already experienced for 2 years for CES). DC was admitted to Takoma, went to the Open House, and still did not want to do the MS Magnet, for the original reasons + DC likes Humanities better. So, just an example to say different kids/families = different choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year it seemed the CES kids all took the Magnet test in their home schools during a regular school day. Others had to drive to Blair on a cold Saturday. Just say'n CES is still the inside track. 335 CES kids last year took 25% of the TPMS spots while the other 3700 kids in the pool took the other 75% of the slots.

That’s what I was thinking. This statistics shared in this thread indicate that CES students are disproportionately likely to be admitted to the competitive MS magnets.

The CES are supposed to have the top 3-5% of MCPS students so they should be doing much better

They never had the top 3 to 5 percent given application depended on parent initiative. Next year MS pool will be first to include CES student pool created from universal screening. I bet CES admission to MS magnets goes up next year compared to last year and this year levels.