MS Magnet admissions: are CES students at a disadvantage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a 5th grader at a regional CES. Her teacher told me that the number of CES kids who got in last year went down to 7 (or close to it?), as compared to 25 the year before that.

Also, at the Magnet meeting, the MCPS representatives very very clearly stated that the Magnet is not for the highest performing students any more. It is for high performing kids, who attend a MS that does not have many other high performing kids.

I think the most important factor is your child's home middle school. If you look at last year's applicant group, the home middle schools that had the largest number of "qualified" (meaning they did well on the test, had high MAP scores etc) applicants per MCPS were Frost, Hoover, SSIMS, Sligo and Pyle
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/schools/msmagnet/about/MS%20Magnet%20Field%20Test%20Data%20by%20Sending%20MS.pdf

These students had a terribly difficult time getting into the middle school magnets because of the peer cohort criteria.
The CES schools that had a lot of children zoned for these home middle schools saw huge drops in acceptance rates - I think only a couple got in from Cold Spring CES (which feeds to Frost MS which has the largest number of high achieving kids). I think Oak View also saw a similar drop off in acceptances.

This is what we were told at the Magnet MS meeting in the fall. They are pushing the MS Magnet to be more of a program for kids at lower performing middle schools to be challenged. Not for the most qualified kids to all meet up in one place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This table posted for the 2018-2019 school year on mcps website is quite interesting to me.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/schools/msmagnet/about/Summary%20of%20the%20Middle%20School%20Magnet%20Data.pdf

Summary:
FARMS - 1202 students identified, 27 invited to Eastern, 28 invited to Takoma
ESL - 1262 students identified, 20 invited to Eastern, 27 invited to Takoma
Students from CES - 335 identified, 28 invited to Eastern, 25 invited to Takoma

Given that there are about 14 CES, that means that an average of 2 students got invited to Eastern, and <2 got invited to Takoma from the CES. So ~3.8 students from the CES were invited to attend one of the magnets.

I am a bit confused with the ESL numbers invited to Eastern. If someone could help me understand -- if a child is ESL, how is s/he more qualified to be invited to a humanities/writing program at Eastern? Additionally, we have yet to account for the kids who are not FARMS/ESL/At a CES. That leaves very few invited seats in certain geographical locations (maybe W-school areas?), specifically 25 students for Eastern and 20 students for Takoma given that each magnet school takes 100 kids.

Interpret this information how you will. For me, it seems obvious that MCPS is trying very hard to give opportunities to kids who are FARMS and ESL. I am not saying that this is a bad or a good thing, but it aligns with the claims said by a previous poster: A child who scored 88% on tests (MAPs/cogat/etc) would be selected if a peer cohort does not exist over one who scored 98/99% who do have peer cohort at the MS.

I'm the poster who said this, because it was told to us at the Magnet MS meeting. I came to the same conclusion, as did many other parents. Most of the parents at my DC's CES took the Magnet test, but are most likely going to stick with the home MS. At the Magnet MS meeting, they very much portrayed the MS Magnets as a place for high performing kids from lower performing MSs to come together. I did not get the impression that TPMS/Eastern are looking for the 'best and the brightest' or the highest performing kids in the County. It aligns with the MCPS main goal of closing the achievement gap, and helps them identify the students from these lower performing MSs who are motivated to do better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the poster who said this, because it was told to us at the Magnet MS meeting. I came to the same conclusion, as did many other parents. Most of the parents at my DC's CES took the Magnet test, but are most likely going to stick with the home MS. At the Magnet MS meeting, they very much portrayed the MS Magnets as a place for high performing kids from lower performing MSs to come together. I did not get the impression that TPMS/Eastern are looking for the 'best and the brightest' or the highest performing kids in the County. It aligns with the MCPS main goal of closing the achievement gap, and helps them identify the students from these lower performing MSs who are motivated to do better.

You may not have intended this, PP, but your post sounds like sour grapes met up with elitism for coffee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the poster who said this, because it was told to us at the Magnet MS meeting. I came to the same conclusion, as did many other parents. Most of the parents at my DC's CES took the Magnet test, but are most likely going to stick with the home MS. At the Magnet MS meeting, they very much portrayed the MS Magnets as a place for high performing kids from lower performing MSs to come together. I did not get the impression that TPMS/Eastern are looking for the 'best and the brightest' or the highest performing kids in the County. It aligns with the MCPS main goal of closing the achievement gap, and helps them identify the students from these lower performing MSs who are motivated to do better.

You may not have intended this, PP, but your post sounds like sour grapes met up with elitism for coffee.

Umm, okay? I have no idea what you're trying to say. What sounds like sour grapes, and what sounds like elitism? Feel free to let me know and I can respond to clarify anything you may have misunderstood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the poster who said this, because it was told to us at the Magnet MS meeting. I came to the same conclusion, as did many other parents. Most of the parents at my DC's CES took the Magnet test, but are most likely going to stick with the home MS. At the Magnet MS meeting, they very much portrayed the MS Magnets as a place for high performing kids from lower performing MSs to come together. I did not get the impression that TPMS/Eastern are looking for the 'best and the brightest' or the highest performing kids in the County. It aligns with the MCPS main goal of closing the achievement gap, and helps them identify the students from these lower performing MSs who are motivated to do better.

You may not have intended this, PP, but your post sounds like sour grapes met up with elitism for coffee.

Interesting - I didn't read it that way (NP). I guess its more about the lens you read it with than what was written.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the poster who said this, because it was told to us at the Magnet MS meeting. I came to the same conclusion, as did many other parents. Most of the parents at my DC's CES took the Magnet test, but are most likely going to stick with the home MS. At the Magnet MS meeting, they very much portrayed the MS Magnets as a place for high performing kids from lower performing MSs to come together. I did not get the impression that TPMS/Eastern are looking for the 'best and the brightest' or the highest performing kids in the County. It aligns with the MCPS main goal of closing the achievement gap, and helps them identify the students from these lower performing MSs who are motivated to do better.

You may not have intended this, PP, but your post sounds like sour grapes met up with elitism for coffee.

Umm, okay? I have no idea what you're trying to say. What sounds like sour grapes, and what sounds like elitism? Feel free to let me know and I can respond to clarify anything you may have misunderstood.

"I don't expect my kid to get into the magnet program, but that's ok, because it's not for the very smartest kids anyway, it's for smart-enough kids from bad middle schools, and my kid is at a good middle school."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the poster who said this, because it was told to us at the Magnet MS meeting. I came to the same conclusion, as did many other parents. Most of the parents at my DC's CES took the Magnet test, but are most likely going to stick with the home MS. At the Magnet MS meeting, they very much portrayed the MS Magnets as a place for high performing kids from lower performing MSs to come together. I did not get the impression that TPMS/Eastern are looking for the 'best and the brightest' or the highest performing kids in the County. It aligns with the MCPS main goal of closing the achievement gap, and helps them identify the students from these lower performing MSs who are motivated to do better.

You may not have intended this, PP, but your post sounds like sour grapes met up with elitism for coffee.

Umm, okay? I have no idea what you're trying to say. What sounds like sour grapes, and what sounds like elitism? Feel free to let me know and I can respond to clarify anything you may have misunderstood.

"I don't expect my kid to get into the magnet program, but that's ok, because it's not for the very smartest kids anyway, it's for smart-enough kids from bad middle schools, and my kid is at a good middle school."

I viewed the post as simply stating a series of facts and observations...not sure what parts of it were elitist or sour grapes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the poster who said this, because it was told to us at the Magnet MS meeting. I came to the same conclusion, as did many other parents. Most of the parents at my DC's CES took the Magnet test, but are most likely going to stick with the home MS. At the Magnet MS meeting, they very much portrayed the MS Magnets as a place for high performing kids from lower performing MSs to come together. I did not get the impression that TPMS/Eastern are looking for the 'best and the brightest' or the highest performing kids in the County. It aligns with the MCPS main goal of closing the achievement gap, and helps them identify the students from these lower performing MSs who are motivated to do better.

I'm confused about why parents are "most likely going to stick with the home MS". I've seen this posted a couple of times recently. Are these parents who in past years would have applied and sent their kids to the magnet, or are they families that would not previously have considered the magnets because of the logistics involved? If they are parents who previously would have sent kids but now wouldn't consider it, do they really think that the quality of the program is being degraded enough to not make it worthwhile? The magnets still offer unique curriculum opportunities for a set of high-ability students. Are the parents turned off by the fact that these may not be the absolute highest-ability students (even if they are still highly qualified)? Or are the parents reconsidering their home MS as a good option in light of the identification of a "peer group" of highly qualified students and the potential for enrichment classes there? I'm really curious about this and would love to hear from parents who previously would have sent kids but now won't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the poster who said this, because it was told to us at the Magnet MS meeting. I came to the same conclusion, as did many other parents. Most of the parents at my DC's CES took the Magnet test, but are most likely going to stick with the home MS. At the Magnet MS meeting, they very much portrayed the MS Magnets as a place for high performing kids from lower performing MSs to come together. I did not get the impression that TPMS/Eastern are looking for the 'best and the brightest' or the highest performing kids in the County. It aligns with the MCPS main goal of closing the achievement gap, and helps them identify the students from these lower performing MSs who are motivated to do better.

I'm confused about why parents are "most likely going to stick with the home MS". I've seen this posted a couple of times recently. Are these parents who in past years would have applied and sent their kids to the magnet, or are they families that would not previously have considered the magnets because of the logistics involved? If they are parents who previously would have sent kids but now wouldn't consider it, do they really think that the quality of the program is being degraded enough to not make it worthwhile? The magnets still offer unique curriculum opportunities for a set of high-ability students. Are the parents turned off by the fact that these may not be the absolute highest-ability students (even if they are still highly qualified)? Or are the parents reconsidering their home MS as a good option in light of the identification of a "peer group" of highly qualified students and the potential for enrichment classes there? I'm really curious about this and would love to hear from parents who previously would have sent kids but now won't.

DP but I think they are parents who previously would have applied to and hoped their child would be able to go to the magnets and are now assuming that their kids will not have that opportunity/not be invited so they are focusing on the home MS. I don't think "they are most likely going to stick with the home MS" means necessarily by choice as opposed to by necessity. Though if you assume you can't have something, some percentage of people will just decide they don't want it anyway. As a CES parent, this is what I've seen the most of. We and our child assume that she will return to her home MS and plan for that. If she has the option of a magnet, then we'll see about that when the time comes. Of course, there may be families who consider the two new classes adequate substitutes, or who feel those classes tip the balance away from the MS magnets with all of the logistical challenges that entails. PP could have meant that I suppose.

[Anonymous]

- How will the MS magnet program standard looks like then: kids with sky high level ( outstanding even at CES) and kids may not even as high as most of the kids in some W cluster ESs ( somebody mentioned 88% earlier)

- Will the grade of IM math and the grade of G5 math weight the same when looking at the report card as one of the factors for Magnet acceptance ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the poster who said this, because it was told to us at the Magnet MS meeting. I came to the same conclusion, as did many other parents. Most of the parents at my DC's CES took the Magnet test, but are most likely going to stick with the home MS. At the Magnet MS meeting, they very much portrayed the MS Magnets as a place for high performing kids from lower performing MSs to come together. I did not get the impression that TPMS/Eastern are looking for the 'best and the brightest' or the highest performing kids in the County. It aligns with the MCPS main goal of closing the achievement gap, and helps them identify the students from these lower performing MSs who are motivated to do better.

You may not have intended this, PP, but your post sounds like sour grapes met up with elitism for coffee.

And is a cogat score of 88% really that different than a 99%?

FYI, Eastern middle school offers separate GT science classes as well as on grade level science classes. I have no idea what qualifies a kid for the GT section.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
And is a cogat score of 88% really that different than a 99%?

Exponentially.

[Anonymous]

Also, at the Magnet meeting, the MCPS representatives very very clearly stated that the Magnet is not for the highest performing students any more. It is for high performing kids, who attend a MS that does not have many other high performing kids.

Is this also true for the High School Magnets?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, at the Magnet meeting, the MCPS representatives very very clearly stated that the Magnet is not for the highest performing students any more. It is for high performing kids, who attend a MS that does not have many other high performing kids.

Is this also true for the High School Magnets?

Kind of, but not quite yet.

For all parents of actual gifted kids - APPEAL.

[Anonymous]

if the magnet program setup/standard/content is no long the same concept as before, then why bother?