MS Magnet admissions: are CES students at a disadvantage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our elementary school, every effort is made to ensure that each classroom has a wide range of ability levels. Students are not grouped by ability. Do the middle schools operate differently? Because if the middle schools also don’t group cohorts of high achieving students together when scheduling classes, what difference does it make in a student’s life that other high achievers attend their middle school?

There are now two classes for advanced learners in the home middle schools (compared to three classes in the magnet programs).

Also, at my kid's middle school (which also hosts a magnet program), they do group the students by ability in the general program.

I have heard great things about the new world studies class at our home MS from parents of 6th graders. However, saying there are 2 new advanced classes versus 3 in the magnet I think makes it seem that the new classes are more like the magent than they are. A lot of it depends on teacher implementation, and the magnets attract teachers passionate about those subjects. Also, the SMAC magnet has 3 math/science/cs magnet classes, and humanities has 3 humanities classes, whereas the 2 new advanced classes being offered in other middle schools are 1 humanities class and 1 math class. So on the good side, you have access to a magnet-style math class and a magnet-style humanities class, rather than one or the other. But on the bad side, the two advanced classes are not integrated and interrelated in the way that the 3 magent classes are in the magnet program. It also remains somewhat to be seen if the MSs that house the magnet programs will offer the "other" advanced class such that SMAC magnet students also get to take the magnet-style world studies class and vice versa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our elementary school, every effort is made to ensure that each classroom has a wide range of ability levels. Students are not grouped by ability. Do the middle schools operate differently? Because if the middle schools also don’t group cohorts of high achieving students together when scheduling classes, what difference does it make in a student’s life that other high achievers attend their middle school?

There are now two classes for advanced learners in the home middle schools (compared to three classes in the magnet programs).

Also, at my kid's middle school (which also hosts a magnet program), they do group the students by ability in the general program.

+1 This has been my kid's experience. Enrolled in the new classes and also with high ability kids in other classes because of language elective and general scheduling. Only class that is different is PE because many sections take the class at the same period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our elementary school, every effort is made to ensure that each classroom has a wide range of ability levels. Students are not grouped by ability. Do the middle schools operate differently? Because if the middle schools also don’t group cohorts of high achieving students together when scheduling classes, what difference does it make in a student’s life that other high achievers attend their middle school?

There are now two classes for advanced learners in the home middle schools (compared to three classes in the magnet programs).

Also, at my kid's middle school (which also hosts a magnet program), they do group the students by ability in the general program.

+1 This has been my kid's experience. Enrolled in the new classes and also with high ability kids in other classes because of language elective and general scheduling. Only class that is different is PE because many sections take the class at the same period.

Middle school science has everyone in the same classes. There is no option for advanced science in MS other than the magnet schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our elementary school, every effort is made to ensure that each classroom has a wide range of ability levels. Students are not grouped by ability. Do the middle schools operate differently? Because if the middle schools also don’t group cohorts of high achieving students together when scheduling classes, what difference does it make in a student’s life that other high achievers attend their middle school?

There are now two classes for advanced learners in the home middle schools (compared to three classes in the magnet programs).

Also, at my kid's middle school (which also hosts a magnet program), they do group the students by ability in the general program.

+1 This has been my kid's experience. Enrolled in the new classes and also with high ability kids in other classes because of language elective and general scheduling. Only class that is different is PE because many sections take the class at the same period.

Middle school science has everyone in the same classes. There is no option for advanced science in MS other than the magnet schools.

Not necessarily. Everyone has the same curriculum. That doesn't mean that everyone is in the same classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our elementary school, every effort is made to ensure that each classroom has a wide range of ability levels. Students are not grouped by ability. Do the middle schools operate differently? Because if the middle schools also don’t group cohorts of high achieving students together when scheduling classes, what difference does it make in a student’s life that other high achievers attend their middle school?

There are now two classes for advanced learners in the home middle schools (compared to three classes in the magnet programs).

Also, at my kid's middle school (which also hosts a magnet program), they do group the students by ability in the general program.

+1 This has been my kid's experience. Enrolled in the new classes and also with high ability kids in other classes because of language elective and general scheduling. Only class that is different is PE because many sections take the class at the same period.

Middle school science has everyone in the same classes. There is no option for advanced science in MS other than the magnet schools.

I know that--what I mean is that due to scheduling, he is in most of his classes with the same kids from the 2 new enriched classes and language elective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our elementary school, every effort is made to ensure that each classroom has a wide range of ability levels. Students are not grouped by ability. Do the middle schools operate differently? Because if the middle schools also don’t group cohorts of high achieving students together when scheduling classes, what difference does it make in a student’s life that other high achievers attend their middle school?

There are now two classes for advanced learners in the home middle schools (compared to three classes in the magnet programs).

Also, at my kid's middle school (which also hosts a magnet program), they do group the students by ability in the general program.

+1 This has been my kid's experience. Enrolled in the new classes and also with high ability kids in other classes because of language elective and general scheduling. Only class that is different is PE because many sections take the class at the same period.

Middle school science has everyone in the same classes. There is no option for advanced science in MS other than the magnet schools.

Not necessarily. Everyone has the same curriculum. That doesn't mean that everyone is in the same classes.

Everyone registers for the same Science 6, Science 7, or Science 8 classes. Sure, there are scheduling situations where advanced learners can end up in the same section. But a class with advanced learners is different than a class for advanced learners.

[Anonymous]

Correct. Someone posted on another thread that, of the 100 seats in Eastern and Takoma MS magnets, 75 went to non-CES kids, only 25 to CES kids. Presumably due to the new peer cohort critera.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a 5th grader at a regional CES. Her teacher told me that the number of CES kids who got in last year went down to 7 (or close to it?), as compared to 25 the year before that.

Also, at the Magnet meeting, the MCPS representatives very very clearly stated that the Magnet is not for the highest performing students any more. It is for high performing kids, who attend a MS that does not have many other high performing kids.

I think the most important factor is your child's home middle school. If you look at last year's applicant group, the home middle schools that had the largest number of "qualified" (meaning they did well on the test, had high MAP scores etc) applicants per MCPS were Frost, Hoover, SSIMS, Sligo and Pyle
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/schools/msmagnet/about/MS%20Magnet%20Field%20Test%20Data%20by%20Sending%20MS.pdf

These students had a terribly difficult time getting into the middle school magnets because of the peer cohort criteria.
The CES schools that had a lot of children zoned for these home middle schools saw huge drops in acceptance rates - I think only a couple got in from Cold Spring CES (which feeds to Frost MS which has the largest number of high achieving kids). I think Oak View also saw a similar drop off in acceptances.

Just to correct you. Cold Spring CES kids feed into Cabin John, Frost, Hoover. This was likely the group that got dinged simply for their geographical region (peer cohort).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Correct. Someone posted on another thread that, of the 100 seats in Eastern and Takoma MS magnets, 75 went to non-CES kids, only 25 to CES kids. Presumably due to the new peer cohort critera.

Or perhaps due in some part to universal screening. 4000 invited to apply vs. 800 in prior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our elementary school, every effort is made to ensure that each classroom has a wide range of ability levels. Students are not grouped by ability. Do the middle schools operate differently? Because if the middle schools also don’t group cohorts of high achieving students together when scheduling classes, what difference does it make in a student’s life that other high achievers attend their middle school?

There are now two classes for advanced learners in the home middle schools (compared to three classes in the magnet programs).

Also, at my kid's middle school (which also hosts a magnet program), they do group the students by ability in the general program.

+1 This has been my kid's experience. Enrolled in the new classes and also with high ability kids in other classes because of language elective and general scheduling. Only class that is different is PE because many sections take the class at the same period.

Middle school science has everyone in the same classes. There is no option for advanced science in MS other than the magnet schools.

Not necessarily. Everyone has the same curriculum. That doesn't mean that everyone is in the same classes.

Everyone registers for the same Science 6, Science 7, or Science 8 classes. Sure, there are scheduling situations where advanced learners can end up in the same section. But a class with advanced learners is different than a class for advanced learners.

The question was about ability grouping - i.e., a class with advanced learners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our elementary school, every effort is made to ensure that each classroom has a wide range of ability levels. Students are not grouped by ability. Do the middle schools operate differently? Because if the middle schools also don’t group cohorts of high achieving students together when scheduling classes, what difference does it make in a student’s life that other high achievers attend their middle school?

There are now two classes for advanced learners in the home middle schools (compared to three classes in the magnet programs).

Also, at my kid's middle school (which also hosts a magnet program), they do group the students by ability in the general program.

What I heard from multiple parents at our school (W-school) is the one humanities class is reasonably taught, but the supposed math class is the same as in previous years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our elementary school, every effort is made to ensure that each classroom has a wide range of ability levels. Students are not grouped by ability. Do the middle schools operate differently? Because if the middle schools also don’t group cohorts of high achieving students together when scheduling classes, what difference does it make in a student’s life that other high achievers attend their middle school?

There are now two classes for advanced learners in the home middle schools (compared to three classes in the magnet programs).

Also, at my kid's middle school (which also hosts a magnet program), they do group the students by ability in the general program.

What I heard from multiple parents at our school (W-school) is the one humanities class is reasonably taught, but the supposed math class is the same as in previous years.

Why is that relevant?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our elementary school, every effort is made to ensure that each classroom has a wide range of ability levels. Students are not grouped by ability. Do the middle schools operate differently? Because if the middle schools also don’t group cohorts of high achieving students together when scheduling classes, what difference does it make in a student’s life that other high achievers attend their middle school?

There are now two classes for advanced learners in the home middle schools (compared to three classes in the magnet programs).

Also, at my kid's middle school (which also hosts a magnet program), they do group the students by ability in the general program.

What I heard from multiple parents at our school (W-school) is the one humanities class is reasonably taught, but the supposed math class is the same as in previous years.

Why is that relevant?

DP. I think it's a way of giving some idea of what area you're in without explicitly identifying the school. But perhaps it is overall more problematic than useful. The quality of the classes is going to vary a lot, especially at the beginning, based on who is chosen to teach it and what that teacher is willing to put into it. It would probably be more helpful for the poster to just name the school. But people on DCUM seem to have a major aversion to specifically naming their school and prefer some level of vagueness.

[Anonymous]

This table posted for the 2018-2019 school year on mcps website is quite interesting to me.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/schools/msmagnet/about/Summary%20of%20the%20Middle%20School%20Magnet%20Data.pdf

Summary:
FARMS - 1202 students identified, 27 invited to Eastern, 28 invited to Takoma
ESL - 1262 students identified, 20 invited to Eastern, 27 invited to Takoma
Students from CES - 335 identified, 28 invited to Eastern, 25 invited to Takoma

Given that there are about 14 CES, that means that an average of 2 students got invited to Eastern, and <2 got invited to Takoma from the CES. So ~3.8 students from the CES were invited to attend one of the magnets.

I am a bit confused with the ESL numbers invited to Eastern. If someone could help me understand -- if a child is ESL, how is s/he more qualified to be invited to a humanities/writing program at Eastern? Additionally, we have yet to account for the kids who are not FARMS/ESL/At a CES. That leaves very few invited seats in certain geographical locations (maybe W-school areas?), specifically 25 students for Eastern and 20 students for Takoma given that each magnet school takes 100 kids.

Interpret this information how you will. For me, it seems obvious that MCPS is trying very hard to give opportunities to kids who are FARMS and ESL. I am not saying that this is a bad or a good thing, but it aligns with the claims said by a previous poster: A child who scored 88% on tests (MAPs/cogat/etc) would be selected if a peer cohort does not exist over one who scored 98/99% who do have peer cohort at the MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our elementary school, every effort is made to ensure that each classroom has a wide range of ability levels. Students are not grouped by ability. Do the middle schools operate differently? Because if the middle schools also don’t group cohorts of high achieving students together when scheduling classes, what difference does it make in a student’s life that other high achievers attend their middle school?

There are now two classes for advanced learners in the home middle schools (compared to three classes in the magnet programs).

Also, at my kid's middle school (which also hosts a magnet program), they do group the students by ability in the general program.

What I heard from multiple parents at our school (W-school) is the one humanities class is reasonably taught, but the supposed math class is the same as in previous years.

Why is that relevant?

Only to give a meter of if mcps somehow favors W-feeder schools over others. It's another data point, that's all.